Reordering of Birth by Sleep



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kirabook

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Birth by Sleep is my favorite game of the series so far, and of course, Aqua is my favorite character~ But, like many others, I still see areas in Birth by Sleep that could have been better. A lot better. That’s what this post is all about. It’s pretty long, be preparedddd. I tried my best to cut down on any rambling, this was written over a few weeks, so there might be somediscrepancies. (I think about Birth by Sleep a lot, but I didn't really discuss which worlds each character doesn't need to go to...)


First, to get a few things out of the way:

  • Not every character should be in every world. This only caused the plot of each world to be way too spread out and short. I see what they were trying to do, but it just doesn’t work. I feel the same about DDD in a way, but that game had a much bigger scale and more room to work with.
  • Characters should have gotten their own keyblades and more abilities special to them. Getting differently sized keyblades that all looked the same was not very exciting.
  • Goodness this game needed more NPC characters in the worlds.
And now, I will use the rest of this space to discuss how I feel the plot/worlds should have gone:

Land of Departure



  • Most of Land of Departure was fine. I mean, what is there to really change? I would change Aqua’s line of “You two would make the weirdest brothers!” into something more reasonable like, “You two are fighting like siblings, pfft.”
  • I would display the dynamic between Eraqus and Xehanort better, such as what conversation they might have about Terra before they decide that he doesn’t pass. (A scene similar to the KH3 trailer where Xehanort and Eraqus are playing chess would be very cool) I want to see Eraqus trying to trust him, but obviously looking doubtful. I would like Eraqus to warn Aqua about him, I would like Eraqus to do something given Xehanort was the one that wrecked his face.
  • I would make it more clear that Ven was trying desperately to warn Terra about the boy in the mask and he runs off right under Eraqus and Aqua’s nose
  • To help the time gap between Aqua and the other two, it could be that Ven literally sneaked off and it isn’t until Eraqus notices that that he demands Aqua bring Ven back right before she takes off. Prior to that, Eraqus might have continued talking to her about her new duties and Terra, putting more time between her start of the story and theirs
  • I would like for Eraqus to not only to bring Ven back, but have Aqua question why he seemed so overtly panicked about it (other than the fact that they don’t know why he left and he kinda ran away)
  • Maybe to fill in more time of gaps between the stories, particularly Aqua, she could very well return to LoD at some point (or even occasionally) to explain what's going on to Eraqus. This would give Eraqus more screentime and relevance to the plot, as well as Aqua starting to see a lack of balance in Eraqus's opinions (where Fairy Godmother told her light and darkness must be balanced, Eraqus insists Terra is going down the wrong path for having ANY darkness at all) I think it would bring out Aqua's subplot so much more (that being her stepping out of Eraqus's shadow of "light only, darkness is always bad" to undestanding balance is needed)
  • Skipping to nearing the end of the game, I think Eraqus should speak more on his mistake in trying to trust Xehanort, and how he must fix his mistakes and protect the world by destroying Ven. Doesn't make matters any better thoough

Castle of Dreams

Although it was super cute how Ven was introduced to this world.... I don’t think he should have any part of it, nor should he replace Gus. I know the point of this world was to show off Ven’s dream of wanting to be a Keyblade Master... but I’m sure this can occur somewhere else? Then again, Ven’s time there was fun and light hearted, so maybe this part can remain? Maybe they all visit the princess worlds?

  • Aqua: Much of everything can stay the same for Aqua, but Aqua does not necessarily need to visit the Castle until the end. She can simply appear near Cinderella’s home and things can play out much the same. Aqua can learn of Terra helping Cinderella once she’s taken care of the boss battle and right before Cinderella reunites with Prince Charming.
  • Terra: Much of everything can stay the same for Terra, but I think there should be WAY more emphasis on dreams come true and Terra could also get the ‘light and dark go hand in hand’ speech as to why Cinderella seems to attract so much trouble?
  • Ven: If Ven is here, his role would be much the same. I would just suggest there be more mice, and the birds, and everything. Make it more interesting. His visit is very cushioned and 'safe' much like the game.

Enchanted Dominion

This is an important world where I think all three characters should appear


  • Terra: I believe Terra’s portion would play out much the same, but make him a little less naive. I believe he’ll find Maleficent suspicious immediately (like the Queen in Dwarf Woodlands), but does not act on anything. He and Aqua are supposed to be at the same level, he should be able to sense her strong darkness. I think he will ‘steal’ Aurora’s heart, and I believe as he is leaving, he outwardly expresses his mistake and shame. It could be that the fairies chase him out, pushing his guilt even further and making their aggressive meeting with Ven quite reasonable.
  • Ventus: Much like the original timeline, I believe Ven arrives shortly after Terra’s supposed mistake and decides to help the fairies reclaim Aurora’s heart. Ven finds it first and releases it before he encounters Maleficent. I believe he seemingly wins his match against Maleficent, but she has the upper hand and is able to take down Ven. At that very moment, I believe Aqua can arrive to save the day. This would further affirm Aqua’s desires to protect Ven and bring him home.

    Aqua tries to convince Ven that Terra is fine -unconvincingly- and that they should go home. But Ven runs off anyway but does mention to Aqua that he must speak to Terra, much to her confusion and distress
  • Aqua: To switch it up from the original timeline, I think it is at this moment that Aqua arrives in the world just in time to hear Terra express his regretful actions aloud and leave. This easily fills in the ‘spying’ accusation he hits her with later. Rather than Maleficent giving her doubts on Terra, Terra himself gives her doubts because she heard from his own mouth what he did while talking to himself. As soon as she turns her head, she sees Ven running off in the opposite direction and chases after him.

    As I mentioned already, I think Aqua comes in and saves the day for Ven, even if Maleficent wasn’t actually going to hurt him per Xehanort’s request. She tries to convince Ven to come with her, but he runs off. Afterwards, the scene plays out much the same way as before I suppose, but more with the threat of Maleficent deciding to regain the heart herself. Cue fight against Maleficent... but I feel it shouldn’t leave off with Maleficent being crippled. If Maleficent is still standing proudly after, Aqua’s speech might be more epic rather than talking to a lady who looks like she's gonna faint. (It’s pure cheese btw. Aqua is pure cheese and it’s amazing)

Dwarf Woodlands

Again, maybe all three should visit all three of the princess worlds in this game. So here are a few changes I can recommend:


  • Terra: I believe his story should play out much the same except he doesn’t just abandon Snow White when she runs from the monsters. I know his role is supposed to match the hunter that the queen sends after Snow White, but how about we switch it up a bit? I think Terra should get her safely all the way to the the Dwarf’s House before leaving, just like he escorted Cinderella to the castle. His boss should be similar to Ven’s boss before he leaves without meeting Snow White again.
  • Ven: Ven’s role here now is kinda wishy washy huh? I think his visit would certainly center around the dwarfs. I think Ven will also meet Snow White and hear about the help Terra gave her. After hearing Snow White’s words and hearing where Terra went off to (toward the danger and stating he hasn't returned and she's worried), Ven could go off in the same direction and end up encountering the remnants of the Unversed Terra already fought. (That’d be an interesting concept). Tying it off when Ven unintentionally aiding the old hag would work just fine too.
  • Aqua: Aqua has 2 important things that must happen here. She must see Snow White in the casket, and she must encounter the mirror. People weren’t too happy that Aqua’s boss battle was just a repeat of Terra’s, so obviously that’s been fixed in this instance. Aqua would go to the castle in search of the hag.The hag could have returned to the castle after her deeds and siced the mirror on Aqua before disappearing.

That’s the first three and probably most important worlds. As for what order they would arrive:

Terra: [Dwarf Woodlands] [Castle of Dreams] [Enchanted Dominion]

Ven: [Castle of Dreams] [Dwarf Woodlands] [Enchanted Dominion]

Aqua: [Castle of Dreams] [Dwarf Woodlands] [Enchanted Dominion]


As I explained already, Aqua arrives at many of these places after the fact is because she didn’t rush off and leave right after Terra and Ven. She and Eraqus hadn’t realized that Ven ran off for unexplained reasons. Her cleanup in Castle of Dreams and Dwarf Woodlands are relatively quick, and it will land her in Enchanted Dominion just as Terra is leaving and Ven is arriving. It's real tight to fit that in there, but eh. We must assume there is more overlap in when each one was on each world.

As for the rest of the worlds, of course there are little tweaks here, little tweaks there, but I will only be addressing some key points in each of their stories and a lot of discussion about Radiant Garden, which I will do next:

Radiant Garden

Radiant Garden is where a lot of stuff goes down. It’s where the trio of friends finally meet together again.


  • Terra: Prior to this, Terra meets with Xehanort where he gives Terra a bullshit story about why Ven is the way he is and who Vanitas is. That’s fine. Now that Aqua has actually heard Terra’s dark confessions with her own ears, Terra’s accusation of her spying is more accurate. Instead of thinking “Forget THEMMMM”, maybe his thoughts should be more be like, “Maybe she’s right...” as he’s gazing at his wayfinder, but Braig interrupts his thoughts or realization that he’s in the wrong.

    In Hollow Bastion, I think the hostage story Xehanort planned out is real weak. It’s good that Terra didn’t believe Braig right away, but even after that, I would think Terra would question such a weird set up? Maybe Xehanort’s plan should have been similar to Repliku, where Braig taunted Terra with (borrowed) dark strength and Terra can only win by using his own darkness. Xehanort could wait until they meet in a more natural setting where Terra confesses to what he did.

    At this point, having Xehanort assure Terra that his darkness is not bad and he’s done nothing wrong might gain a timid “Only Xehanort believes in me” reaction.
  • Ven: Prior to Ven’s arrival here, he encounters Vanitas and pretty much gets beat up until Mickey helps him. I think that can all stay the same. Meeting all the org members is kinda unnecessary to be honest... but eh, I guess a little fun can be had?? Not much needs to change here. I do think after he meets Lea and Isa, he should glace at his wayfinder as he says “At least they know who their real friends are” or something to that affect. To further tie in the wayfinder theme.
  • Aqua: Aqua doesn’t have many changes either except a few things. Firstly, while Aqua will come and rescue Kairi, I don’t think she casts a spell on Kairi. Instead, I think Aqua will introduce the wayfinder concept to Kairi. How? Maybe in the rush of things, Aqua dropped her wayfinder and Kairi returns it to Aqua after the battle. In return, Aqua tells her all about it, the tree of legend on an islands, how it connects her to her friends, etc etc. I think that is a MUCH better connection between the two than some vague spell.

    Not much of a change, but I think a better focus of the argument had between Aqua and Terra is more justified here. Along with her statements of Terra being too close to the darkness, I think she insists on knowing what happened in some of the worlds because it’s super sketch. Then comes Terra accusing her of spying and Ven running off again because he thinks Aqua stepped out of line.

    The second big change I would make is about Vanitas. I think after the trio split up after the boss battle, Aqua goes looking for Ven, but runs across Vanitas the stalker following Ven in the shadows. Instead of Vanitas approaching Aqua, I think Aqua should approach him, especially after hearing Terra and Ven speak negatively of him. I think that is when Aqua engages with him trying to figure out who he was and Vanitas acts even more aggressively in return, but manages to get away after he’s defeated. I definitely think it should be Aqua tracking down Vanitas, not the other way around.

    I think Aqua will want to find Terra to talk more about what’s going on with him, and to ask about Vanitas since Terra clearly knows more. When she tells Ven to go home and doesn’t go with him, I think it’s because she simply wants to catch up with Terra.

Smaller Changes

So, that does it for some of the major story changes, most everything else kind of fits into place. Now I will just quickly bulletpoint other things

  • Ven reaffirms or first brings up his desire to become a keyblade master when he completes the Coliseum. Not only does he enjoy seeing the friendly competition between Zack and Hercules (which reminds him of Aqua and Terra), he also wants to prove himself to his two best buddies, much like Zack and Hercules want to be come heroes. I’m surprised this wasn’t touched on.
  • I think Vanitas never ‘outgrows’ his use for Aqua as of Neverland, which is where Aqua tracks him down, not where he decides to meet up with her. He’s gotten new orders to test her in Neverland and while she may pass, she’s obviously too much for Vanitas to handle. While she may have been an annoyance before, I think the implication that Baldy has a new use for her in mind is good, even if it never happens in BbS.
  • If the Keyblade Ceremony must be a thing, I think Terra should state more clearly that if his heart is strong enough, maybe he will get his own keyblade someday because as it is, it implies Terra literally gave Riku a keyblade and not just a recommendation
  • I think when Terra and Aqua meet in the keyblade graveyard, he tells Aqua more so that she knows why she’s fighting. As it is, she knows that Xehanort and Vanitas are the bad guys, but Terra telling Aqua face to face that Vanitas is Ven’s darkness and that Xehanort must want something with him AND that he backstabbed their master? Much more rage would be had
  • If they didn’t have limitations, I would have loved for the in-game fight sequence in the Keyblade Graveyard to have been more epic somehow.

Things that should be totally excluded


  • The entirety of Deep Space. It’s just fluff and filler and they didn’t really do a great job tying it all in
  • How/Why Pete was banished and meeting Maleficent. Goofy mentioned it was because Mickey banished him and Pete said Maleficent helped him, so just leave it at that.
  • I loved Donald and Goofy’s cameo at Yen Sid’s tower, but it contradicts Donald and Goofy not knowing where Yen Sid lived before. Canonwise, I write it off as Yen Sid moves a lot (his tower and the land he’s on that is, moving from world to world or realm to realm). This can be avoided completely if they aren’t there. Maybe they make an appearance in Disney Town instead
  • Ven meeting nearly every single Org member, pure fanservice
  • Ven constantly introducing himself as “I’m Ventus, but call me Ven. 8D” What an adorkable dork
 

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This is such an awesome Thread, kira! I will type more later because I am on my mobile rn
 

Sally-boiii

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Who all did Ven meet that was an Org member? Dilan, Lea, Isa, Aeleus, Even, Ienzo, and of course Xehanort/Terra. And is that it? Why is that a bad thing?
 

kirabook

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Not bad as in "Urg, WORST thing possible." Ven running across say, Dilan and Aeleus were fine. They were guarding the palace and it's reasonable for Ven to stumble into them. Ienzo especially felt super shoehorned in, as did Even (who didn't even have to meet Ven face to face, but they shoehorned that in too)

Even Lea and Isa felt like fanservice, but fanservice isn't always bad. It didn't feel as forced as Ienzo for example.
 

KeybladeKnightQ

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If the Keyblade Inheritance ceramony wasn't introduced or made in BBS what would the explanation be for obtaining a Keyblade? Also Terra doesn't just give Riku a Keyblade he stated that "if you possesses the makings, it's wielder you will one day be". It was Aqua who basically gave Kairi a Keyblade just like Riku did in KH2

I think what would have BBS better is if they made the trio's friendship more believable and heartfelt. They should have made younger versions of Terra, Aqua, and Ventus. I mean BBS starts four years before the game begins with Xehanort going to leave Ventus to die. But despite it being four years before the games events Ventus looks exactly the same. And so does Aqua and Terra when they meet him. People would have been more fond and sympathetic of Terra if they showed him having his problems with his darkness since a young age and it also showing how Eraqus falsely raising and advising him how to handle it.
 
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Muke

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People would have been more fond and sympathetic of Terra if they showed him having his problems with his darkness since a young age and it also showing how Eraqus falsely raising and advising him how to handle it.
I don't think such kind of 'flashback' or background story would make Terra more sympathetic. People (or most of them) don't like him because of how stupid he is (for the lack of a better word)

Also, please try not to double post. :)
 

kirabook

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If the Keyblade Inheritance ceramony wasn't introduced or made in BBS what would the explanation be for obtaining a Keyblade? Also Terra doesn't just give Riku a Keyblade he stated that "if you possesses the makings, it's wielder you will one day be". It was Aqua who basically gave Kairi a Keyblade just like Riku did in KH2
I said:
"If the Keyblade Ceremony must be a thing, I think Terra should state more clearly that if his heart is strong enough, maybe he will get his own keyblade someday because as it is, it implies Terra literally gave Riku a keyblade and not just a recommendation"

There are many people in this fandom that wrongly assume the keyblade ceremony automatically gives someone a keyblade. Even you seem to assume that since you think Aqua gave Kairi a keyblade when that is not the case.

My point is that, even if the ceremony must still take place, they should add in more dialogue to reaffirm this gives him a better chance of getting a keyblade, not that this moment gave Riku one.

As for their friendship, their friendship is already believable for me. The game started off by saying they were friends and I believe it. It would have been nice if they took the extra step to make the characters look younger (Ven is actually smaller and does not have the straps or the armor on his arm), but I digress. Much of what I have written here is meant to show better that they are friends and how friends might react given their situation.
 

Muke

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There are many people in this fandom that wrongly assume the keyblade ceremony automatically gives someone a keyblade. Even you seem to assume that since you think Aqua gave Kairi a keyblade when that is not the case.
Exactly. The Ceremony is just a way of saying "Hey, Keyblade. I think this person might have a strong heart, check him/her out."
lol

Also, I never doubted their friendship. It's especially emphasized in the beginning soo..
 

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If the Keyblade Inheritance ceramony wasn't introduced or made in BBS what would the explanation be for obtaining a Keyblade?
Well that's just the thing. We already had an explanation. Those who are worthy of wielding one can do so. It didn't really need a new explanation that just made things more complicated.
 

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I don't think Terra gave a simple "recommendation" to some lingering, waiting keyblades. There seem to be certain qualities that have to be met in order to obtain a keyblade and Terra sensed them in Riku. So, I think it's fair to say he "gave" him a keyblade. At that point of time, it was practically a given that Riku would get a keyblade in the future.

About the whole ceremony thing: They "destroyed" the original purpose we had with the keyblade (it's so speciuuul only you can save the world because of the keyblade, Sora) anyways by telling us that there were lots and lots of keyblade wielders, so it was kind of a given as well that there had to be successions and not just "yeah 958349 people got chosen by the keyblade themselves for whatever reason!"
I think it makes sense that a wielder can pass his power on to someone else.
 

KeybladeKnightQ

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I don't think such kind of 'flashback' or background story would make Terra more sympathetic. People (or most of them) don't like him because of how stupid he is (for the lack of a better word)
Well that just shows how narrow minded people are for who they blame. If being dumb is the only reason why someone should be hated than Eraqus should be more hated than Terra. He's the one that let everything go as Xehanort wanted. He still trusted him despite him scaring his face and talking about making the apocalypse. Even if they had a history together and even if Eraqus wanted to believe Xehanort was sincere and sympathetic about what he did, what went down between them shouldn't have been so easily forgiven with just an apology letter. And to add insult to injury he didn't even tell Terra and Aqua(a now recognized master and equal) what went down between him and Xehanort which would have been helpful. Terra might have been somewhat ignorant with who he trusted like the Disney villians but so was Riku and at leased Terra didn't get fouled by the whole evil counsel. Terra had no reason to distrust Xehanort up until he killed Eraqus. To Terra for all he knew he was a highly known and respected superior and Keyblade Master who talked about nothing but stopping a monster(Vanitas) and creating a balance between light and darkness.

Well that's just the thing. We already had an explanation. Those who are worthy of wielding one can do so. It didn't really need a new explanation that just made things more complicated.
No it didn't it make things make sense. If that WAS how Keyblades worked and that anyone could get one just by having a strong heart than why would Sora and Riku have been fighting for control over the same Keyblade instead of each having their own from the beginning? That logic would have made KH1 not make sense. What's so difficult to understand about the Inheritance Ceramony all it is is that in order to obtain and wield a Keyblade one must have a strong and must be given the power by someone how already has it. It's a simple Master to Student passing of power type of thing.
 
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Muke

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in order to obtain and wield a Keyblade one must have a strong and must be given the power by someone how already has it. It's a simple Master to Student passing of power type of thing.
No, to wield the Keyblade one must have a strong heart. Tell me, how did Sora get his Keyblade? Did anybody bestow it to him? Exactly, no.

There's no way all the 3490347 people in X inherited the Keyblade by a Ceremony, sorry. Also, we have a Thread about obtaining Keyblades.

I'm telling you again, please stop doubleposting.
 

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No it didn't it made things make sense. If that WAS how Keyblades worked and that anyone could get one just by having a strong heart than why would Sora and Riku have been fighting for control over the same Keyblade instead of each having their own from the begin? That logic would have made KH1 not make sense. What's so difficult to understand about the Inheritance Ceramony all it is is that in order to obtain and wield a Keyblade one must have a strong and must be given the power by someone how already has it. It's a simple Master to Student passing of power type of thing.
I don't really see the problem. Whether you have the keyblade because you got a ceremony, or because it just chose you doesn't change the fact that there's only one of them in Sora and Riku's situation. I'm not saying they can just be created out of thin air. If Riku's heart wasn't weak he would have kept his key and Sora would or would not have later gotten his own. Riku wasn't deemed worthy of wielding a keyblade, so he couldn't. Sora was, so he could. Even if there would have been several keyblades around, I don't think that would have changed, he wouldn't have been able to wield any of them. I wouldn't mind the ceremony if it really did work like that, but I'm still not sure how that works with Data Sora getting his. Or Sora, for that matter, he hasn't gotten a ceremony done to him for what we know?

Not to mention Chi/Unchained, where there's probably hundreds or thousands of wielders. And the Player who can just randomly summon their keyblade in the beginning. Of course we don't know what's the whole deal with Chi/Unchained, so maybe there's an explanation for all that but for now I personally feel they should have either strictly stuck with no ceremony -> no keyblade or just leave the whole concept out.
 

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No, to wield the Keyblade one must have a strong heart. Tell me, how did Sora get his Keyblade? Did anybody bestow it to him? Exactly, no.

There's no way all the 3490347 people in X inherited the Keyblade by a Ceremony, sorry. Also, we have a Thread about obtaining Keyblades.
Read the KH1 Ultimania Nomura goes into depth about why that is Sora touched Riku's light in the scene that he reached for his hand. Sora can't' be compared to the traditional Keyblade Wielders because he is a special case. Just a Xehanort says in DDD. That's what makes Sora still so special despite him not being the only Keyblade wielder anymore. And who's to say they the Keyblade wielders in X didn't obtain their Keyblades from an inheritance ceremony? You pick your union before you get it. It was probably an indirect ceremony. The Foretellers where likely just going around and buliding their unions in a fast and easier way of passing the power of the Keyblade in order to increase their numbers.
 

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I'd say that Sora isn't special at all, but I don't want to start that debate again
 

KeybladeKnightQ

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I'd say that Sora isn't special at all, but I don't want to start that debate again
He's the only one who can bring back the people who are sleeping in torment, and besides Roxas(who can only do it because he's connected to Sora) is the only person capable of wielding two Keyblades at the same time, and he's the only person ever to return to his original self without destroying his nobody. If that's not special than I don't know what is.
 

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the only person capable of wielding two Keyblades at the same time
That has nothing to do with Sora, but with Ventus's heart inside his. As soon as Ven is out, Sora should become unable to wield two keyblades at once
and he's the only person ever to return to his original self without destroying his nobody.
That, too, has nothing to do with Sora, but with Kairi who saved him with her magic mumbo jumbo.
 

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That has nothing to do with Sora, but with Ventus's heart inside his. As soon as Ven is out, Sora should become unable to wield two keyblades at once


That, too, has nothing to do with Sora, but with Kairi who saved him with her magic mumbo jumbo.
. Never said the those thing where because of Sora himself. None of the powers Sora has is his own its all because of his connections with other people that's kind of the point of his character. I don't deny that. I'm just saying the fact that he can do al those things is what makes him so special.
I'm still not sure how that works with Data Sora getting his. Or Sora, for that matter, he hasn't gotten a ceremony done to him for what we know?

Not to mention Chi/Unchained, where there's probably hundreds or thousands of wielders. And the Player who can just randomly summon their keyblade in the beginning. Of course we don't know what's the whole deal with Chi/Unchained, so maybe there's an explanation for all that but for now I personally feel they should have either strictly stuck with no ceremony -> no keyblade or just leave the whole concept out.
Data Sora's Keyblade is Sora'a it's explained in the Re:Coded Ultimania that his connection with the real Sora allowed him to summon it. Sora got to wield Riku's initial Keyblade because he touched Riku's light in the scene he reached out for Riku's hand when he obtained it. Nomura explains this in the KH1 Ultimania
 
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. Never said the those thing where because of Sora himself. None of the powers Sora has is his own its all because of his connections with other people that's kind of the point of his character. I don't deny that. I'm just saying the fact that he can do al those things is what makes him so special.
Actually, what makes him so special is not all those things he does, but the way he is basically just a teenage boy who's neither super-strong nor really smart. He's special for not being special at all, yet connecting to the people he meets.
 

KeybladeKnightQ

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Actually, what makes him so special is not all those things he does, but the way he is basically just a teenage boy who's neither super-strong nor really smart. He's special for not being special at all, yet connecting to the people he meets.
Yeah I know Nomura has said that so many times. It's the reason why he didn't make Sora a master in DDD
 
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