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AdrianXXII

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I get where you're coming from (part of me kinda wanted to see a Roxasnort), but don't you think nort-ing Xion for the novelty of it would be a bit of... a waste? It doesn't help her character or re affirm her growth in any way, as far as I can tell. It regresses her back into a slave on the premise that she can be "reprogramed", despite the fact that it was already shown you can't program hearts to act any kind of way. DiZ admits at one point that once the subjects of his data Twilight Town grew hearts (through their connection with Roxas), he couldn't get them to "think and act the way he had envisioned." Which is what led him to conclude "a heart is more than any system." This is also why Xion is still able to act of her own freewill and trick Roxas into striking her down (ruining the Organization's plans), despite Xemnas seemingly "reprogramming her" just before she faced her friend in their death match. It didn't work then, so why in the world would it work now?

For her arc to have come to a real, satisfying conclusion, not only would you need to bring up her sacrifice at length, as well as have her re-establish her relationships with her friends, but she also needs to prove her individualality and right to exist as someone just as human as everyone else. That can't be done by making her a slave for Xemnas AGAIN, under the pretext that she can still be "programed" despite developing her own heart and mind. Something Xemnas openly expressed was not apart of their original design, and therefore wasn't something he or Vexen could possibly have accounted for.

Do you see where I'm coming from at least?
Honestly I think with Xion it should have been a full on Xehanort possession, because as you stated trying to reprogram her hasn't worked in the past so why would it now? Unless they had someone like Namine rewrite her memories? Though I agree that her being possessed or reprogrammed does little for her character. Though I guess her breaking free of the possession because of her relationship with Axel and Roxas could reaffirm their bond and her strength, but that'd be retreading days' path.

Again, I just wanted a excuse to see a evil Xion in the game. I just think the idea would be awesome for some reason. Plus her armor forms can come back, lol.
Kinda wonder if her Data Battle counterpart will have those armors or echos of them.
 

Twilight Lumiair

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Yes, I do see where you are coming from, and I even agree with most of what you said. Alas I still would have enjoyed a true Seeker of Darkness Xion, if done right. I think it could have been done and not hurt her character. She has a heart but she's still a Replica and subject to their rules. I'm a major sucker for the "power of friendship defeating brainwashing" cliche trope, and since nobody remembered her for most of KH3, why not have Xehanort manipulate her with it? I think that could have been a good story to tell with her.
Hey dude, you're allowed to enjoy whatever you want, lol. I wasn't trying to take that away from you, believe me, I just didn't personally see much value in it is all. That said, I could, theoretically, see a Xion SoD storyline working well enough (with the basic theme of "a strong enough friendship can overcome any kind of brainwashing/programing/conditioning, etc."), but it'd be very tricky to pull off without damaging her arc. And honestly, I'm not too sure Nomura even has the finesse to do something like that. I mean, look at the vague, conflicting mess we got.

Even if you must do time travel, take her from after she gets her butt kicked by Riku, which is arguably one of her most hostile moments in her life, brief as it was. Have Young Xehanort travel to that point in time and prey on that insecurity of her being a sham, promising her if she sides with him she can be as real as Roxas and Axel. It's a lie and she gets norted forgetting them.
Interesting angle... Buuut, I would personally argue that Roxas and Axel didn't necessarily veiw themselves as "real" even back during 358. It was actually a running theme that the Organization constantly claimed that they "don't really exist" because Nobodies are born without hearts, and were "shunned by both light and darkness." I'm sure, even before she learned she was a replica (which was a little while after her fight with Riku), Xion understood that that was an existential flaw they all shared.


Again, I just wanted a excuse to see a evil Xion in the game. I just think the idea would be awesome for some reason. Plus her armor forms can come back, lol
Seeing Xion go all out again would've been awesome for sure!

Imagine this: Vexen, or the Apprentices spend time secretly working on more "devices" (like we see in 358) during the mid-game, and when things start to look dire for Xion in the final battle (be it as a SoD, or GoL), they launch the machines down to the battlefield. Giving Xion a much needed second wind, and also allowing her access to her armor and final boss weapons, which she then uses to wreck house before reverting back to normal in the end.

This is sort of how I was expecting it to go pre-release, and it would've given the ex-Organization members a proper role in final battle (as support/back up). Bonus points if we get a report or two on what exactly the devices themselves are and how they work.

Honestly I think with Xion it should have been a full on Xehanort possession, because as you stated trying to reprogram her hasn't worked in the past so why would it now? Unless they had someone like Namine rewrite her memories? Though I agree that her being possessed or reprogrammed does little for her character. Though I guess her breaking free of the possession because of her relationship with Axel and Roxas could reaffirm their bond and her strength, but that'd be retreading days' path.
Full on possession would work well for a number of the characters, but there has to be a notable weakness for Xehanort to exploit in order to exact his will over them. Aside from originating as a replica, what about Xion's character would make her sutable to Xehanort's control? Cause if that's the only only reason, then I'm inclined to wonder why he wouldn't just have a new replica made from scratch, with no will to go against him in the first place (like we eventually see in Scala).

Again, I'm not saying it couldn't work, but as the finale of the Saga and what should be the culmination of her arc, I'd just find it a bit underwhelming, trite, and a waste of valuable screentime. Returning characters like Roxas, Xion, Namine, and TAV really needed to earn their comebacks, and prove their narrative worth as mainstay additions to the current cast. Otherwise you end up cheapening their individual tragic demises, and it feels like they're just back for the sake of it. Xion's memory wipe was sidestepped by the vague, utilitarian plot device known as "data" (despite that conflicting with Jiminy's Journal being wiped due to SDG losing their memories of KH1 in Re: Chain), and then it's handwaved when Axel arbitrarily remembers her with little warning once the original Xion is somehow restored in her entirety. Any weight her return could've had is shot down right there, and then she goes on to have zero diologue about it with anyone, which de-powers her original sacrifice because we now know she's just gonna get brought back at the snap of the fingers anyway. They could've at the very least used the PoW (like they set up in the first place), brought her history into focus, and made it feel more earned and central to the story, but alas.. maybe that was just too much to expect. 😔
 

SweetYetSalty

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Hey dude, you're allowed to enjoy whatever you want, lol. I wasn't trying to take that away from you, believe me, I just didn't personally see much value in it is all. That said, I could, theoretically, see a Xion SoD storyline working well enough (with the basic theme of "a strong enough friendship can overcome any kind of brainwashing/programing/conditioning, etc."), but it'd be very tricky to pull off without damaging her arc. And honestly, I'm not too sure Nomura even has the finesse to do something like that. I mean, look at the vague, conflicting mess we got.


Interesting angle... Buuut, I would personally argue that Roxas and Axel didn't necessarily veiw themselves as "real" even back during 358. It was actually a running theme that the Organization constantly claimed that they "don't really exist" because Nobodies are born without hearts, and were "shunned by both light and darkness." I'm sure, even before she learned she was a replica (which was a little while after her fight with Riku), Xion understood that that was an existential flaw they all shared.
My bad, I got that scene confused with her dream sequence when she asked what it would take to be like Roxas and Axel, which are two separate scenes, lol. When it comes to Xion, her heart status and how they revived her we're just going to have to wait for ReMind to truly give us answers.

I wanna learn more about the guardians vs the nort clones. Are they the same ones that Sora fought at Scala and if not then how many of these things did Xehanort make? Do all of them have a piece of Xehanort's heart in them? How much of Xehanort's heart is even left? You would think splitting his heart so many ways would weaken the old guy. This should have played a factor in the 13 Seekers. Lea destroyed a piece intended for Sora too.
 

TruestSyn

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In all fairness Xion herself doesn't need to have a connection to Lea as long as Lea has a connection to her (whether or not he's aware of it). Like HPO feeling like they're friends with Roxas even though they don't know him, the chains of memories are connected. That's how the Rinzler stuff works too, Sora recognizes him because he knows Copy Tron, and that's enough for Rinzler to feel connected to him. I think that's kinda explained in coded via Donald and Goofy re: Data Sora. But it is confusing.
My heart dropped when 3D said Coded was important but then I regretted that disdain when I played it and loved it.
 

Delsin Rowe

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Okay, there's still one thing in my head that I really want to talk about, and that is if Sora is going to be using time travel the same way Master Xehanort did throughout the kh series in the dlc. The reason I say this is because in the description of the dlc, it says Sora is lacking a corporeal form, and the only way you can travel throughout time in the kh series is as a heart. And I know there has to be a version of you waiting for you there in order for it work, but there is a version of him there. He can just posses his past self and use the power of waking to save Kairi. It could also explain how he ends up confronting Terra-Xehanort in the Keyblade Graveyard. What do you guys think about this interesting theory?
 

Sakuraba Neku

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With the talks of Yozora being a parallel version of Sora, the possibility of Yozora being a secret boss and Nomura waiting to shove Yozora/Verum Rex down our throats, if he really turns out to be a secret boss, I've been thinking how cool it would be to play with him against Sora.

It could be something like this:

First round: Playable Sora vs Yozora
Intermission cutscene
Second round: Playable Yozora vs Sora

Probably not gonna happen, but it would be fun and a different take to a boss battle.
 
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