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SweetYetSalty

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In all fairness Xion herself doesn't need to have a connection to Lea as long as Lea has a connection to her (whether or not he's aware of it). Like HPO feeling like they're friends with Roxas even though they don't know him, the chains of memories are connected. That's how the Rinzler stuff works too, Sora recognizes him because he knows Copy Tron, and that's enough for Rinzler to feel connected to him. I think that's kinda explained in coded via Donald and Goofy re: Data Sora. But it is confusing.
Thank you for explaining this, it is confusing. Still I wish they had handled this with a bit more care for these characters that I love.
 

AdrianXXII

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Past Xion's heart being from when she just joined the Org makes no sense, she'd lack both the keyblade and most of her power.

Honestly it'd make more sense for Xionort to be a new replica recreating the original Xion based on data collected. Really hope remind clears this up, even just in the journal
 

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Past Xion's heart being from when she just joined the Org makes no sense, she'd lack both the keyblade and most of her power.

Honestly it'd make more sense for Xionort to be a new replica recreating the original Xion based on data collected. Really hope remind clears this up, even just in the journal
Ienzo's secret reports suggest that you can only partially reconstruct a heart from data but digitial memories can be used to reconstruct appearance so I wonder if a mixed approach is used with Xion. Her heart from the past could be combined with collected data. There is so much mystery around Xion though that it's anyone's guess.
 

Twilight Lumiair

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In all fairness Xion herself doesn't need to have a connection to Lea as long as Lea has a connection to her (whether or not he's aware of it). Like HPO feeling like they're friends with Roxas even though they don't know him, the chains of memories are connected. That's how the Rinzler stuff works too, Sora recognizes him because he knows Copy Tron, and that's enough for Rinzler to feel connected to him. I think that's kinda explained in coded via Donald and Goofy re: Data Sora. But it is confusing.
Lea didn't seem to feel connected to the Xion copy at all though. We see, on screen, that he only remembered Xion and started talking to her with familiarity after the original returned. Prior to that, Lea and Kairi were just fighting her for the sake of it. The identity didn't matter.

HPO based their feelings on Roxas around a picture taken from the digital Twilight Town. They were aware that a different version of themselves were friends with Roxas (I think Goofy even suggest it outright). In other words, they needed to have some kind of strong emotional prompting.

Donald and Goofy had to befriend Data Sora all over again throughout Re: Coded. It wasn't a matter of automatically being connected to him through the other Sora, even if they did compare the two.


All that said, yeah, I agree with the whole Rinzler scene.

Honestly it'd make more sense for Xionort to be a new replica recreating the original Xion based on data collected.
Mmmm, this is getting old. Does anyone remember how KH2 and Re: Coded made a big deal about "hearts being more than any system"? Part of the message of those games is that you can't just make a heart from Data alone, it has to form bonds and have strong connections to the people and world around it. Data Sora had to earn his heart, for example, he didn't just start out with one. That's not how it works.

Anyway, I still don't get the logic behind the whole data explanation either. Whatever info Vexen would've had on Xion could not have included her weilding a Keyblade, or looking like the black haired Kairi we all know and love. All that was said, by Xemnas, to be the work of Sora himself, and it only occurred after Vexen left for C.O. Where are they getting this data from?
 
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SweetYetSalty

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Lea didn't seem to feel connected to the Xion copy at all though. We see, on screen, that he only remembered Xion and started talking to her with familiarity after the original returned. Prior to that, Lea and Kairi were just fighting her for the sake of it. The identity didn't matter.

HPO based their feelings on Roxas around a picture taken from the digital Twilight Town. They were aware that a different version of themselves were friends with Roxas (I think Goofy even suggest it outright). In other words, they needed to have some kind of strong emotional prompting.

Donald and Goofy had to befriend Data Sora all over again throughout Re: Coded. It wasn't a matter of automatically being connected to him through the other Sora, even if they did compare the two.


All that said, yeah, I agree with the whole Rinzler scene.


Mmmm, this is getting old. Does anyone remember how KH2 and Re: Coded made a big deal about "hearts being more than any system"? Part of the message of those games is that you can't just make a heart from Data alone, it has to form bonds and have strong connections to the people and world around it. Data Sora had to earn his heart, for example, he didn't just start out with one. That's not how it works.

Anyway, I still don't get the logic behind the whole data explanation either. Whatever info Vexen would've had on Xion could not have included her weilding a Keyblade, or looking like the black haired Kairi we all know and love. All that was said, by Xemnas, to be the work of Sora himself, and it only occurred after Vexen left for C.O. Where are they getting this data from?
You know what we need? We need some full Vexen Reports. I know he got some in the Secret Reports, but I want fully detailed Vexen/Replica Reports that explain everything needed to know about them to clear some issues.
 

Twilight Lumiair

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You know what we need? We need some full Vexen Reports. I know he got some in the Secret Reports, but I want fully detailed Vexen/Replica Reports that explain everything needed to know about them to clear some issues.
That might do. Though to be honest, none of this would even be an issue if they just had Xion brought back the way they originally set up. It was already established in previous games that Mickey, Riku, and Sora each saw her and were aware of her existence. Heck, Sora seemingly saw her whole story through Roxas' memories (during DDD), and that alone could've been cause for investigation. Once Roxas and Namine were restored via the PoW (bare in mind, restoring Roxas and Namine is half the reason Sora even obtained the power to begin with), they could convince him-- and maybe even Riku, to dive into his own heart and pull Xion out. Maybe we even get an exchange between the two where Sora comes to learn the nature of her sacrifice, as well as the reasons behind it, and Xion finally gets some appreciation for laying down her life and being forgotten so this person she never met could awaken. You could've had so much emotional pay off and heavy discussions, yet they chose to use data, replicas, AND have her image be reduced to that of a slave again? It's the emptiest, most utilitarian route they could've possibly gone, and frankly only regressed Xion's arc. And for what? Because they couldn't give Vexen something better to do? Because they couldn't come up with a stronger redemption for Siax? Because they couldn't be consistent about no one but Sora and Co being aware of her existence? Honestly, it's not that hard guys, it's really not..

didn;t the 13 made Xion to keep Sora memory a sleep
Back in 358/2 days, yes.
 

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Mmmm, this is getting old. Does anyone remember how KH2 and Re: Coded made a big deal about "hearts being more than any system"? Part of the message of those games is that you can't just make a heart from Data alone, it has to form bonds and have strong connections to the people and world around it. Data Sora had to earn his heart, for example, he didn't just start out with one. That's not how it works.

Anyway, I still don't get the logic behind the whole data explanation either. Whatever info Vexen would've had on Xion could not have included her weilding a Keyblade, or looking like the black haired Kairi we all know and love. All that was said, by Xemnas, to be the work of Sora himself, and it only occurred after Vexen left for C.O. Where are they getting this data from?
Honestly the whole Xionort Seeker of Darkness thing just doesn't work well.

I figure that, if they made a new Xion they could personally try and form the bonds with her to create a heart accelerating the process with the fragment of Xehanort within her. Also I assume that Xemnas' reports on her might have survived the memory wipe, however that's left unclear. It's unlikely seeing Namine's drawing of her didn't.
But, yeah overall her being one of them just seems like it's really tricky.

The thing is the point in time given from when her heart supposedly is, doesn't work seeing she didn't really have one until later as her friendship with Axel and Roxas grew.

Honestly Repliku shouldn't be there either, seeing he didn't really form a heart until the events at the end of Sora's side of CoM. That is if the whole thing about them being basically special Nobodies still holds true.

I fully agree that it'd have been better for her revival to be something done by the heros after encountering her in DDD. Sure we'd have one of the series' final bosses missing in the new Org, but it'd be less confusing.

Thanks to Roboloid, we know there’s a new Aqua medal coming to UX that shows her KH3 model wielding Rainfell. So maybe she’ll be using it at some point during Re Mind!

I find it interesting that she's wielding Rainfell and not Stormfall, seeing we most of us figured it was the upgraded version of it. However I personally prefer Rainfell so I'm happy.
 

SweetYetSalty

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Honestly the whole Xionort Seeker of Darkness thing just doesn't work well.

I figure that, if they made a new Xion they could personally try and form the bonds with her to create a heart accelerating the process with the fragment of Xehanort within her. Also I assume that Xemnas' reports on her might have survived the memory wipe, however that's left unclear. It's unlikely seeing Namine's drawing of her didn't.
But, yeah overall her being one of them just seems like it's really tricky.

The thing is the point in time given from when her heart supposedly is, doesn't work seeing she didn't really have one until later as her friendship with Axel and Roxas grew.

Honestly Repliku shouldn't be there either, seeing he didn't really form a heart until the events at the end of Sora's side of CoM. That is if the whole thing about them being basically special Nobodies still holds true.

I fully agree that it'd have been better for her revival to be something done by the heros after encountering her in DDD. Sure we'd have one of the series' final bosses missing in the new Org, but it'd be less confusing.
A Xionort or Dark Xion could have actually worked if done right. In theory she's the perfect way to take down Sora if she worked the same way she did in 358/2 Days. They needed a moment in the game where the bad guys extract her heart from Sora, and nort her, as she's easier to reprogram then Sora himself. They made this complicated when the not showing anything from her revival and saying she's from the past at a point in time when she couldn't possibly have a heart.

A shame. I've always wanted a evil Xion, truth be told. Like just imagine tiny little Xion trying to manipulate Disney characters the way the bigger Organization members do. It wouldn't be scary it would be adorable. What could have been...

The Xion Ark (get it? lol) is a bit mismanaged. How can Xion be the missing Darkness when Mickey confirms that Terranort is their 13th?
This line made little sense and I don't know why they had it. Xehanort told us he had Terra as far back as DDD.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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A Xionort or Dark Xion could have actually worked if done right. In theory she's the perfect way to take down Sora if she worked the same way she did in 358/2 Days. They needed a moment in the game where the bad guys extract her heart from Sora, and nort her, as she's easier to reprogram then Sora himself. They made this complicated when the not showing anything from her revival and saying she's from the past at a point in time when she couldn't possibly have a heart.
One way would be having Xionort as No. i, Vexen's old data from before Xion was Xion, capturing and absorbing Xion's heart from Sora.

This line made little sense and I don't know why they had it. Xehanort told us he had Terra as far back as DDD.
Mickey: "Remember when Xehanort said that Terra is one of his vessels? Well, what if he meant that Terra is one of his vessels?"

Riku: "You is a genius, Mickey!"
 

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I'm completely riding the Zac Efron train, and if it's not him I'm going for Crispin Freeman

I think I would choke on the very air I breath if Zac Efron was a VA for any KH character.

Thanks to Roboloid, we know there’s a new Aqua medal coming to UX that shows her KH3 model wielding Rainfell. So maybe she’ll be using it at some point during Re Mind!


This right here is the most beautiful thing I doth ever see in KH Ux. I LOVE THEM SM
 

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One alternative to using Xion would be using Ventus himself as one of the Seekers. Picking up Young Ven from when he was a lost kid desesperately trying to not be discarted by his master. Bonus points for interesting interactions with Vanitas and hints from UX.

There's also Maleficent considering she was manipulated by Xehanort from the very start and has always been around darkness anyways, plus he was the one who released the darkness in her heart back in kh1, pretty easy to justify that he left a piece of himself at that point.
But with Disney not wanting their villains to fight anymore that would never happen anyways.

Such a shame, she could have restored some of her charm as a villain from 1 while looking extra cool in the Org Coat, plus we don't really have a caster between the 13 members.
 

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Thanks to Roboloid, we know there’s a new Aqua medal coming to UX that shows her KH3 model wielding Rainfell. So maybe she’ll be using it at some point during Re Mind!

Those renders look amazing (and I'm glad they're still framing Aqua as central), but I was never a fan of Rainfell. Stormfall looks so much more formidable, and has some similar traits to the Master's Defender, which was always one of my favorites.

A Xionort or Dark Xion could have actually worked if done right. In theory she's the perfect way to take down Sora if she worked the same way she did in 358/2 Days. They needed a moment in the game where the bad guys extract her heart from Sora, and nort her, as she's easier to reprogram then Sora himself. They made this complicated when the not showing anything from her revival and saying she's from the past at a point in time when she couldn't possibly have a heart.

A shame. I've always wanted a evil Xion, truth be told. Like just imagine tiny little Xion trying to manipulate Disney characters the way the bigger Organization members do. It wouldn't be scary it would be adorable. What could have been...
I get where you're coming from (part of me kinda wanted to see a Roxasnort), but don't you think nort-ing Xion for the novelty of it would be a bit of... a waste? It doesn't help her character or re affirm her growth in any way, as far as I can tell. It regresses her back into a slave on the premise that she can be "reprogramed", despite the fact that it was already shown you can't program hearts to act any kind of way. DiZ admits at one point that once the subjects of his data Twilight Town grew hearts (through their connection with Roxas), he couldn't get them to "think and act the way he had envisioned." Which is what led him to conclude "a heart is more than any system." This is also why Xion is still able to act of her own freewill and trick Roxas into striking her down (ruining the Organization's plans), despite Xemnas seemingly "reprogramming her" just before she faced her friend in their death match. It didn't work then, so why in the world would it work now?

For her arc to have come to a real, satisfying conclusion, not only would you need to bring up her sacrifice at length, as well as have her re-establish her relationships with her friends, but she also needs to prove her individualality and right to exist as someone just as human as everyone else. That can't be done by making her a slave for Xemnas AGAIN, under the pretext that she can still be "programed" despite developing her own heart and mind. Something Xemnas openly expressed was not apart of their original design, and therefore wasn't something he or Vexen could possibly have accounted for.

Do you see where I'm coming from at least?
One alternative to using Xion would be using Ventus himself as one of the Seekers. Picking up Young Ven from when he was a lost kid desesperately trying to not be discarted by his master. Bonus points for interesting interactions with Vanitas and hints from UX.
Tbh, I would've much rather they make Ven a Seeker than Xion or Roxas, so long as he got reconciliation with Xehanort and Vanitas in the process. Though I admit that still wouldn't be ideal, you could at least have him gain something as a character, and bring his history with Xehanort full circle.
*Edited for Grammatical Errors*
 
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SweetYetSalty

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I get where you're coming from (part of me kinda wanted to a see a Roxasnort), but don't you think nort-ing Xion for the novelty of it would be a bit of... a waste? It doesn't help her character or re affirm her growth in any way. It regresses back into a slave on the premise that she can be "reprogramed", despite the fact that it was already shown you can't program hearts to act any kind of way. In one of his Secret Reports , DiZ admits that once the subjects of his data Twilight Town grew hearts (through their connection with Roxas), he couldn't get them "think and act the way I had envisioned." Which is what led him to conclude "a heart is more than any system." This is also why Xion is still able to act of her own freewill and trick Roxas into striking her down (ruining the Organization's plans), despite Xemnas seemingly "reprogramming her" just before she faced her friend in their death match. It didn't work then, so why in the world would it work now?

For her arc to have come to a real, satisfying conclusion, not only would you need to bring up her sacrifice in length, as well as have her re-establish her relationships with her friends, but she also needs to prove her individualality and right to exist as someone just as human as everyone else. That can't be done by making her a slave for Xemnas AGAIN, under the pretext that she can still be "programed" despite developing her own heart and mind. Something Xemnas openly expressed was not apart of their original design, and therefore wasn't something he or Vexen could possibly have accounted for.

Do you see where I'm coming from at least?
Yes, I do see where you are coming from, and I even agree with most of what you said. Alas I still would have enjoyed a true Seeker of Darkness Xion, if done right. I think it could have been done and not hurt her character. She has a heart but she's still a Replica and subject to their rules. I'm a major sucker for the "power of friendship defeating brainwashing" cliche trope, and since nobody remembered her for most of KH3, why not have Xehanort manipulate her with it? I think that could have been a good story to tell with her.

Even if you must do time travel, take her from after she gets her butt kicked by Riku, which is arguably one of her most hostile moments in her life, brief as it was. Have Young Xehanort travel to that point in time and prey on that insecurity of her being a sham, promising her if she sides with him she can be as real as Roxas and Axel. It's a lie and she gets norted forgetting them.

Again, I just wanted a excuse to see a evil Xion in the game. I just think the idea would be awesome for some reason. Plus her armor forms can come back, lol.
 

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I pop back to join the KH 3 discussion after I finally have a semblance of understanding of what went down, and you guys bring up the Xion fiasco.

Never mind I am more confused.
 

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I just realized something with the Restoration Committee scene: we might potentially finally see Riku & Rikku in the same room together!
 
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