Relationships

[Oracle Spockanort]

I haven't finished 2.8 but is there really a montage of Disney-heteros making out?

I can't.

Yes. It’s all the het you could ever (not) ask for in the 2.8 main menu credits.

 

[Deleted member 246005]

I was being a bit snarky. That 2.8 picture is supposed to "confirm" SoKai, but Roxas / Namine are also featured there and I don't think most people would think a romance has been confirmed between them. I would like if Roxas / Namine became canon though.

ohhhh, You gotta use emoticons.

I like Roxas and Namine more than their others but I'm ambivalent towards them as a couple.

 

[alexis.anagram]

As the same with other storytelling elements in the game, it isn't the most optimal from a writing standpoint, but saying its void is a bit of a hypercritical oversight.

There's no point in haggling over the rote semantics of this game's insufficiencies. A story's value is determined ultimately by the messages it evinces through the illustration of ideas and characters who mark a thematic presence that shifts the weight of the narrative towards a crystallization of its running thesis. KH3 might aspire to this superficially in that it ornaments itself in the sentiment of a lost vision premised in past triumphs but the messages it ultimately sends on its own terms are that Namine is skippable, Aqua is ineffectual, Kairi is a liability, and the rest of the story is unworthy of better. I wish that it warranted the effort of complimenting its virtues through their disentanglement from the snarl of everything it lacks, as previous installments in the series have if only due to the sheer wealth of substantial moments they impose. But KH3 is, unfortunately, impoverished, and we're all poorer for it.

 

[Sora2016]

Yes. It’s all the het you could ever (not) ask for in the 2.8 main menu credits.

I completely pushed this from my memory lol. I guess I also haven't finished 2.8 since I just sorta wasn't feeling up to replaying DDD and clearly ran out of time. Does anything else even happen in them?

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I completely pushed this from my memory lol. I guess I also haven't finished 2.8 since I just sorta wasn't feeling up to replaying DDD and clearly ran out of time. Does anything else even happen in them?

That was it. It’s just a montage of all of the couples in Kingdom Hearts. I remember awhile back it set off a heated discussion about Sora and Kairi and went on for like 15 pages (like all shipping discussions tend to end up going)

 

[AdrianXXII]

The "basic components" of Namine's character have been a relevant force throughout the game—from what she represents as a character, which ties into the motivations of those seeking to help her, to what she is directly able to express further from the Final World scene, albeit optional, and game ending. As the same with other storytelling elements in the game, it isn't the most optimal from a writing standpoint, but saying its void is a bit of a hypercritical oversight.

The exposure of her character in the Final World showed us the individuality she carries as a person, with her separate presence there because of what happened to her host. The foundational meaning of this occurrence and the following scene is a set precedent in the story by her presence through the thoughts/motivations of those who seek to help her—something shared between those who are "lost" and meant to be found in the game. For the conversation that Sora has with her, indeed reflections of her past and those she's connected to—this "emotional context" used here is congruent to the overall theme of the series itself and is shared amongst all characters who "find" each other. At what point is this not an appropriate factor to include here, which is something that is actually an essential component to characterization? And, even if the knowledge of this scene is optional, along with the usage of her abilities for the final fight—this is still relevant to Lingering Will's appearance and her overall character regardless, with the "need" of her involvement being shaped due to how this changes the outcome of the situation at hand, and considering she has made this connection with Terra before, it's appropriate that she is needed in order to accomplish this. Despite being in her current state, her inclusion was something that she decided to do, the same way this was implied via orchestral concert for what she did for Terra in 0.2. This proactive nature of hers falls in line with actions taken in the past. The "more is more" philosophy still isn't wasted on Namine's involvement in the story, as it isn't for most others, but the role that she does fulfill, and the character that she does show, hardly warrants a conclusion of her being "void" of character.

While i agree she isnt void of character, the issue with her interaction being optional is that the development team is basically communicating to the player that this isn't important to know.

Which depending on how you want to look at it means they think you knowing Naminé sent Lingering Will isnt important, but him showing up to save Ven and the others is. Obviously that's just one way to read it.

Considering most of the "lost" characters achieved an objective that was relevant to their characterization, I don't believe that simply applies to them all as well. The game has many ways in which it can improve itself, but there're definite arguments that it meets its end at an adequate level to be deemed "sufficient" at most. Nomura's writing in KH3, it's surface level, and clearly shows that Nomura doesn't fully capitalize on the potential he sets in place for his story and characters. This is all true and is where your arguments stands from what I can see. I understand it, and where the lack is, it's very frustrating when you know it can be done better. If even fans can think of it, why not the creator? Despite the conversation being long overdue between Nam/Sora, even the that conservation had more efficient ways to be approached and executed. There's a noticeable lack of optimal prospects in each area of the game, believe me I get it, but this lack also doesn't necessarily amount to a complete nothingness—something that doesn't capture the good things that are present for the characters. Overall, there're contextual emphasis on character that are "decent", but it's not even close to exemplary—something of expectation for a character driven story. For Namine, this meets alongside that bare minimum scale as well for what was presented.

But, I will agree that it is totally egregious that the parts of the story concerning Namine (the Final World scene and even the orchestral conversations) are something withheld from the immediate context. That seriously doesn't make any sense, and it's bad that I'm not surprised either. Though, I uhh, didn't even know for the Final World. >_> It was such an easy, accessible conversation that the thought of it being optional didn't occur to me until now. It's like nothing was learned from the original FFVII! Though, I wouldn't stand at a point to disregard the meaning it holds, however, as all these things found a way to be either included (Kairi's letter) or implied (Namine connecting to Terra) in the story anyway.

I agree with the assesment that the story is told on a surface level sufficiently. I kind of suspect Nomura and his team might have thought of these things to a degree as well but decided to streamline and simplify things for a reason or another, most likely budget and time.
I find it hard to imagine you can spend this much time with a story and not, realize your not hitting all the beats you set up on a deeper level than the surface.

I guess some of the missed beats can be brought up and explored more in future games, where there's less to wrap up.

 

[MelodicEnigma]

There's no point in haggling over the rote semantics of this game's insufficiencies. A story's value is determined ultimately by the messages it evinces through the illustration of ideas and characters who mark a thematic presence that shifts the weight of the narrative towards a crystallization of its running thesis. KH3 might aspire to this superficially in that it ornaments itself in the sentiment of a lost vision premised in past triumphs but the messages it ultimately sends on its own terms are that Namine is skippable, Aqua is ineffectual, Kairi is a liability, and the rest of the story is unworthy of better. I wish that it warranted the effort of complimenting its virtues through their disentanglement from the snarl of everything it lacks, as previous installments in the series have if only due to the sheer wealth of substantial moments they impose. But KH3 is, unfortunately, impoverished, and we're all poorer for it.

I got you.

Though, if we’re corresponding the weight of a story’s value to the interrelationship between the messages conveyed by character agency and thematic execution, KH3 still serves a purpose for these characters that ultimately fulfills that correlation. If understanding that from all facets of storytelling—in this, indeed are poor, specific portrayals of writing ability and consistency. But, the representations that encapsulate that relationship are still there regardless of those mistakes, which these are where the overall messages of the story and characters are actually covered on an adequate level at best. The conditional (and questionable) storytelling decisions that serve to make Nomura’s writing poor is impossible to not notice in how it affects the presentation of characters, e.g. Namine’s skippable scene, Aqua’s misguided emphasis on certain character traits, and Kairi’s lack of character exposure—this being the ultimate message you've received of their character in this story. (this list can go on and on for many characters and different moments) Yet, between what these characters accomplish in their characterization and role for the narrative to represent the theme retained through each game’s correspondence—the powers of the heart and those interlocked between them—the overall message that represents their characterization is still provided by their character arcs that present this functioning, reoccurring theme in the narrative, e.g. Namine’s individuality and association with others, Aqua’s efforts in regaining her best friends, and Kairi’s narrative with Sora. All of these pertaining to aspects that define their character, but on the individual construction for certain moments, it is either dulled by the poor writing and structure of the story (as per the messages you mentioned), or elevated to define the narratives retained by their characters (the messages pertaining to theme). Neither excuses the other to obsolescence, but I can see where everyone is coming from by regarding the weight of all these messages in the story. Concerning integration of character and theme, it meets a minimum demand in what KH3 was meant to do story-wise, but in exploring the depths of this minimum to reach a higher plateau of all storytelling elements, that's where the story starts to fail in its potential, and you won't hear any contention from me on that one.

While i agree she isn't void of character, the issue with her interaction being optional is that the development team is basically communicating to the player that this isn't important to know.

Which depending on how you want to look at it means they think you knowing Naminé sent Lingering Will isn't important, but him showing up to save Ven and the others is. Obviously that's just one way to read it.

I hear you, I actually am still baffled by the decision to have it be avoidable. My only point is that there's a divide in how it's important in and of itself vs. the crucial need of having it to understand the next events. The scene provides notable aspects, and for what it reveals, it presents the idea of it having no substantial reason of being optional in the first place—this considering Namine's relevance throughout the game and Lingering Will showing up as an alternative to the past. It doesn't stop us as the audience in recognizing the weight the scene holds, but it also doesn't stop us from seeing the sloppy implementation from Nomura by making it an optional cameo. Not to be harsh, but that's straight up dumb for a scene like that, which still could've been approached better as well.

On a side note and on topic (sort of), if KH3 is like this with its storytelling concerning characters and relationships, I wonder what will befall the FFVII Remake. C'mon Nomura...

 

[Nukara]

What about Isa and Subject X?
If she really turns out to be Skuld, then it will be quite symbolic that Isa personifies the moon, and she stars given the earrings in the form of stars in her.
Looks pretty romantic.
What do you think of such a pair?
I just think that Isa could definitely have something for that mysterious girl?

 

[.:Mega:.]

I'd rather Lea and Isa, tbh. They already have a long established relationship as friends, and it'd be nice to have some non-straight ships in KH, even if it'd be a disaster in terms of Chinese and Russian releases.

Also!

The interviewer asked, during the conversation with Namine in the Final World, if “the person Namine most wants to see” is Riku. Nomura says that in picking up Namine from Radiant Garden, Riku was acting on Replica Riku’s wishes, and that the bond between Namine and Replica Riku can be strongly felt.

My ship isn't deeeeead. Now if they had just saved Rep instead of having him swooce off. >/

Source.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Going to get to stuff after work, but...

The interviewer asked, during the conversation with Namine in the Final World, if “the person Namine most wants to see” is Riku. Nomura says that in picking up Namine from Radiant Garden, Riku was acting on Replica Riku’s wishes, and that the bond between Namine and Replica Riku can be strongly felt.

Source.

Thank the Lord.

 

[Zettaflare]

I'd rather Lea and Isa, tbh. They already have a long established relationship as friends, and it'd be nice to have some non-straight ships in KH, even if it'd be a disaster in terms of Chinese and Russian releases.

Also!



My ship isn't deeeeead. Now if they had just saved Rep instead of having him swooce off. >/

Source.

Aww, now I really wish Repliku stayed. It just makes it all the more tragic he didn't get to be with Namine

 

[Raz]

I get the whole "noble sacrifice" thing but it does seem silly that

Spoiler Show

Repliku has to die when the whole (purported) point of KHIII is to give full "being" to those characters who have been previously marginalized.

 

[Nukara]

Going to get to stuff after work, but...

Thank the Lord.

As a fan of Rokunami, I am glad to be with you

 

[*TwilightNight*]

As a fan of Rokunami, I am glad to be with you

My concern was just the complete randomness and zero romantic groundwork, even within the game itself where the scene happened. It was...awful. Just reeked of Naminè being thrown to it. Had a rant about the whole thing.

So, Nomura killing it the moment it begun is all fine by me.

Also, Repliku rights.

 

[Sora2016]

My concern was just the complete randomness and zero romantic groundwork, even within the game itself where the scene happened. It was...awful. Just reeked of Naminè being thrown to it. Had a rant about the whole thing.

So, Nomura killing it the moment it begun is all fine by me.

Also, Repliku rights.

I mean not to stomp anyone's harmless shipping but I really don't get where it came from in the first place lol. I thought it was super obvious it was Riku doing it on Repliku's behalf since that's literally what was set up. If anything, as usual, Riku was shown to care the most for Sora this whole game lol. It really didn't fit for either of them.

Not that this official statement will stop anyone who already has deemed it true.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

I mean not to stomp anyone's harmless shipping but I really don't get where it came from in the first place lol. I thought it was super obvious it was Riku doing it on Repliku's behalf since that's literally what was set up. If anything, as usual, Riku was shown to care the most for Sora this whole game lol. It really didn't fit for either of them.

Not that this official statement will stop anyone who already has deemed it true.

You know how others get, and it was vague for the most part. I just think Nomura has proven himself to be a mediocre writer enough where pulling this pair will be right up his ally; no foundation, no basis, but lol, why not. That was my thought process anyway, so I didn't completely dismissed it.

I have an inkling suspicion that at this point, those who insist on it despite it being torpedoed just want to keep Naminè off the market so she won't get in the way, if you get what I'm implying. I thought we left that delusional form of denial back in the 2000s. Guess not.

Some are even willing to accept Riku replica's heart affecting Riku's nonexistent feelings for Naminè or that the replica "handed her" off for Riku to take care of (as if Naminè has no right of a choice and is a prize to give to whoever cause that character deemed it so). I'm just...lmao, like why am I coming across this type of shit in the year 2019. Ay yi yi.

 

[kaseykockroach]

I get the whole "noble sacrifice" thing but it does seem silly that

Spoiler Show

Repliku has to die when the whole (purported) point of KHIII is to give full "being" to those characters who have been previously marginalized.

He's like Sora then, always eager to sacrifice himself for a gal!

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Riku is so devoted to Sora that it's hard to imagine him in a romantic relationship with anybody.

 

[.:Mega:.]

Y'all be forgetting that KH1 Riku existed.

"Soon, Kairi. Soon."

But that's just me being perpetually salty that the canon doesn't like to acknowledge their friendship anymore...

 

[kaseykockroach]

Because that would require acknowledging Kairi. KH3 only had Sokai antics out of obligation.