Relationship between Axel and Riku

[iZumi]

The theory is this:

Axel, before he was named, had to have given Xemnas a fake name to cover the identity of his Somebody. I don't have the time to type out 20+ pages of a manifesto that my friend put together regarding Axel and his supposed Somebody, but the argument is that Axel and Riku are Somebody/Nobody.

Guys and girls, hear me out.

If any of you recall, Riku wanted to protect his identity from those he cared for so that they wouldn't learn of his life in darkness; he wore the blindfold, the Organization cloak and very well could have gone by a codename prior to having Ansem's appearance and thereby taking his name. You want information? You've got it.

Basic points of the manifesto:​

-The secret side of a human, the side one may want to be yet are afraid to turn into, is a Nobody-->

-Case 1: Sora is 14 year old kid when he earns title of Keyblade Master, and honestly? Did he want this position at the expense of breaking his relationship with Riku and Kairi? He wouldn't, but the Keyblade chooses its master; so what's he to do?
-The hidden side of Sora: Roxas clearly doesn't want to fight, and would much rather spend summer vacation lounging with friends. Fact.

-Case 2: Kairi is a strong willed Princess of Heart who refuses to be branded a princess. She has to keep up with two island boys and fit in, so lagging behind and acting helpless and girly are not on her list of to-do's.
-The hidden side of Kairi: Namine is timid and not confident in herself. Secretly, she is like the princess atop the tower that Kairi very well could have wanted to be.

-Case 3: Riku was jealous of Sora and appreciated his best friend's talents. He tried to make a point in Sora's face that he was number one. Now, if he showed his approval of Sora's abilities, he wouldn't be so high and mighty, would he? Therefore, he hid this side from the world to protect his powerful persona.
-The hidden side of Riku: Axel is the opposite. He clearly appreciates Roxas's efforts in the Organization, be it sparring, missions, or simply exchanging thoughts atop the clock tower. Axel tells Roxas, more in the novelizations of the games than anywhere else, that he is a good friend. In short, Axel is the side of Riku who didn't want to reveal himself.

Points continued:​

-Riku was clearly infatuated with Kairi and displayed acts of chivalry greater than Sora could have ever done in all three games together.

-Axel, while less heroic and passionate in his protective actions, saves Namine in Castle Oblivion and in KHII at least four times--freeing her from Marluxia, freeing her from a locked closet, taking care of her while she isn't with Riku, granting her wish to see Kairi. Similarly, in KHII, rather than harming Kairi as he kidnaps her, he merely takes her arm and pulls her into darkness with no intentions of using force. Why does he open a portal for Sora to go through in Betwixt and Between? For Kairi and Sora's benefit. Call it a way to "make up" for, not only trying to harm Roxas, but for putting Kairi and Sora in harms way. A very Riku-esque thing to do.

-Riku and Axel's eye color are unique to them and only them. Aqua; not green, folks.
-Stature, posture, gesticulation, even hair style (given that Axel's hair be watered down some): all very similar

Just as Riku wanted to hide himself from the world after throwing himself into darkness, Axel would want to protect Riku's true identity, and thus give Xemnas a fake name to re-create.

Those are the more important points to the manifesto, and why I say Axel is most definitely NOT "Ale" because he's "hahaha. BEER." And his relation to Reno? Don't even get me started.

Have anything you'd like to add in objection, fandom?​

 

[Audo]

No.
I don't know how many times it needs to be said, but Riku has no Nobody. AT ALL. In no way shape or form.
His body was never casted off meaning, no matter the situation, he will never have a Nobody.

There is so much wrong with your post. *shakes head*
Axel has green eyes, btw. Riku has Aquamarine. Riku was never infatuated with Kairi. Bleh.

 

[Byronic Hero]

tl;dr

But what I did see war that you said thet Riku wore the blindfold to conceal his identity from his friend. this is wrong, he wore it to conceal his identity from himself.

 

[iZumi]

Mhm, I knew someone would mention this. Thank you.

Now, lookie here at this palette drop test:

Of course, in certain lighting conditions, Axel's eyes will appear green:

The case of Riku having a Nobody is a confusing one, seeing as he, theoretically, never became a Heartless. Here we go, directly from the manifesto:

Axel would have been created after Riku fought with Sora in the foyer of the castle in Hollow Bastion. You remember the scene--Riku gets pwnd and runs off upset, and Xehanort's creepy quasi-Heartless thing approaches him and they merge into one being.Riku willingly opened his heart fully to the darkness in that moment, although whether or not he actually lost his heart is never specified. However, there are indications through the entirety of the last quarter of the game that Riku was losing his heart.

For example, when he engages Sora, he arrives on the scene in his normal clothing, and then suddenly shifts and is donning a tattered hula skirt and a bodysuit with the Heartless symbol on it. Once the fight is over, he reverts back, but his heart is obviously weakened. Xehanort's Heartless even says to him, "For that instant [your heart] was [weaker than Sora's]." When Ansem and Riku then merge into the same being, it is basically the merging of a Heartless and a Somebody to create something entirely different. This is why I believe Axel behaves so differently from the other Nobodies in the Org--even Roxas and Naminé, who were created under oddly extenuating circumstances as well. Riku lost his body in a sense, but his heart was still strong enough to overcome Ansem's autonomy in the end. Given the highly unusual circumstances, don't you think it'd be a little odd for a Nobody not to have been created? While it is bit of an unorthodox state of affairs, what about Axel isn't unconventional, am I right?

The entire situation is highly unusual--Xehanort's Heartless was already a Heartless (meaning Xemnas already existed), and so when his body merged with Riku, who was still a Somebody at the time, there was technically an extra heart involved in the equation. Even before his battle with Ansem in the Realm of Darkness, Riku was stronger than Ansem, and so when Riku's strong heart merged with a creature that was already a Heartless to create...a Heartless (because it was still referred to as Xehanort's Heartless), there was an extra heart in the mix somewhere. And that heart was Riku's. What do you suppose happened to it? Given a lot of the unique differences Axel has from the other Nobodies--he could, quite easily, have a heart. By this logic, the argument that Axel has a heart is almost more valid than the idea that Roxas has one, which is what Axel himself seems to think. After all, Sora and Kairi's hearts were both housed within Sora, and so when he shanked himself with the 'Dark Keyblade' and became a Heartless, Roxas would have been born with no heart, because Sora did become a Heartless--we see his and Kairi's hearts flutter away, Kairi's to return to her lifeless body and Sora's to simply vanish into the air... However when Riku merges with Ansem, there's already a Heartless in the equation, and Riku never loses his body to become a Shadow. Riku becomes a Heartless because he joins with one, but he never fully loses his heart, creating the very viable--IMHO--argument that Axel may well have been created with an intact heart, since there happened to be a spare around during the process.

I think that's why Axel seems so much more alive and emotional than the other Nobodies. Whether or not there's actually a heart involved is most assuredly up for debate, but you can't deny that the entire situation was highly unusual, and so any Nobody created in that fashion would have some variance from the norm...

Now.

tl;dr

But what I did see war that you said thet Riku wore the blindfold to conceal his identity from his friend. this is wrong, he wore it to conceal his identity from himself.

Ah, but you forget this quote:

Sora: [Falling to his knees] Riku! It's Riku. Riku's here...I looked for you!
Riku: C'mon, Sora. You've got to pull it together...
Sora: I looked everywhere for you!
Riku: ...I didn't want you to find me.

Riku didn't want anyone to know who he was. He wore a band around his head, and the Org mantle to hide his face and the tainted guilt of his eyes. Really, Riku had a lot of things to feel guilty about, and was too ashamed to show his face to not only Sora and Kairi, but everyone he knew. For example, he accepted the darkness Ansem offered to him in hopes that he would become stronger than Sora, in turn using Kairi as nothing more than bait to lure Sora in. He's jealous of Sora's friendship with new friends he meets in the various worlds, and he's tricked by Maleficent into thinking that the two have no need of each others' friendship. Throughout KHI, Riku literally uses Sora and Kairi, and for that, yes he is disappointed in himself, but he can never do more than hide from his friends.

He cannot escape darkness, therefore he cannot hope to escape himself. So, there would be absolutely no point in TRYING to protect himself from who he has become.

 

[Audo]

Riku's body never casted off. Like i said that's all that matters. Even when Xehanort had sent Riku's heart to the Dark Realm, his body was still in possession - still in the light realm, and as such, No Nobody could have been made.

And, you're wrong about Nobodies being the opposite of their Somebodies, btw.

 

[Byronic Hero]

Eyes? Is that the only thing you can come up with. Cause seems to me that the rest of the post is complete bull :/

 

[iZumi]

Eyes? Is that the only thing you can come up with. Cause seems to me that the rest of the post is complete bull :/

Obviously eyes aren't the only thing that matter, and it seems to me that you totally overlooked the rest. Yes, it's a touchy subject.

 

[Audo]

Honestly, there is nothing to support it.
If eye colour is all you got, i can name at least five characters that all have the same shade of eyes. Should i consider them all to be Nobodies of one another?

 

[iZumi]

Riku's body never casted off. Like i said that's all that matters. Even when Xehanort had sent Riku's heart to the Dark Realm, his body was still in possession - still in the light realm, and as such, No Nobody could have been made.

And, you're wrong about Nobodies being the opposite of their Somebodies, btw.

Like the excerpt mentioned: the process is entirely suspect.

Just to keep the argument going, in your opinion, what is the definition of a Nobody? It seems canon to me that they be slight opposites to their Somebodies with shared traits, though not entirely mirrored images.

Skipped over the other points, did you? Shame. Seems you've missed this:
The color is unique to them and only them. Absolutely NO character in the Kingdom Hearts series has this exact eye color as Riku and Axel do. Go ahead; do a palette drop on each like I did. I'll wait. In the mean time, like I said, I cannot copy all 20, no, 40+ pages of the manifesto into this thread to share every single detailed-to-the-last-drop point. Therefore, it's obvious eye color isn't a huge defining argument.

 

[machinegungeek]

Lol. Let's see... Axel has his own memories, not Riku's.

Axel's timing regarding his joining the Org. (being #8) makes it way too early to be Riku's nobody.

They are TOTALLY different.

Axel uses chakrams and fire, not darkness, soul eater, or a key blade.

And MANY more.

 

[Audo]

Like the excerpt mentioned: the process is entirely suspect.

Uh no. We know what happened. And Riku never casted off his body, that is fact.

Just to keep the argument going, in your opinion, what is the definition of a Nobody? It seems canon to me that they be slight opposites to their Somebodies with shared traits, though not entirely mirrored images.

lol, that's the thing, they aren't. The only reason Nami and Roxas are different from their Somebodies is because they have no memories of their Somebodies. Nothing to use to create their personality and emotions from. Axel does. Basically, Axel would act nearly identical to his Somebody.

Skipped over the other points, did you? Shame. Seems you've missed this:
The color is unique to them and only them. Absolutely NO character in the Kingdom Hearts series has this exact eye color as Riku and Axel do. Go ahead; do a palette drop on each like I did. I'll wait. In the mean time, like I said, I cannot copy all 20, no, 40+ pages of the manifesto into this thread to share every single detailed-to-the-last-drop point. Therefore, it's obvious eye color isn't a huge defining argument.

Eye colour is truly not conclusive.

 

[iZumi]

Sorry, this theory is, and has always been, epic fail.

Entitled to your opinion as I am, I respect that.

Let's see now. The following covers the subject of Axel and Riku's memories.

Remember how I mentioned about the card in CoM with memories of Destiny Islands? How exactly do you suppose Axel got that card in the first place? He never 'sampled' Sora's memories the way Marluxia did, and he surely never met up with Riku. So where did those memories come from? Why, they were his own, of course. If a Nobody usually retains its memories of their life as a Somebody, it serves to plenty of reason that Axel would remember what Riku remembered, and so making a card with information about Destiny Islands would be a snap. Imagery from 358/2 Days depicts Axel, Roxas, and Xion all hanging out on Destiny Islands anyway, which begs the question, 'why?'. If they are not intended to mirror Sora, Kairi, and Riku, then why would they be shown there, of all places? Especially when it's made obvious that Axel's favorite place to hang out is Twilight Town? Twilight Town is the mainland of Destiny Islands, after all--recall how Kairi was walking home from school with Selphie in Twilight Town and the islands were visible in the distance. Of all the worlds out there, why would Axel and Roxas choose Twilight Town as their preferred haunt? Simple: nostalgia. Even if Roxas can't remember why Twilight Town feels like home, Axel sure can. Moreover, how can you deny the visual similarities? New scenes from 358/2 Days all but spell it out for us.

I'm inclined to believe that time passes significantly differently in each world, although, seeing as the whole time difference hasn't been confirmed, this appears to be the biggest hole in the theory. TWTNW and Hallow Bastion, for example, could very well follow different times. Now, Roxas was created more than likely a few hours after Riku joined with Xehanort, and if you take the theory that Axel would have been created at that time into consideration, then it does seem a little off base to think that these two--four members apart--could be created so close to one another.

 

[Audo]

Sadly, we already know that isn't the case.
1 year = 1 year everywhere.
10 years = 10 years everywhere.
KH2 and BBS have proved as much.

Not to mention, Nobodies don't age.

 

[machinegungeek]

And there's the fact that the nobodies routinely leave TWTNW in order to kill Heartless/perform missions. Xemnas, for one, routinely goes to HB for the whole Room of Sleep thing.

 

[iZumi]

Sadly, we already know that isn't the case.
1 year = 1 year everywhere.
10 years = 10 years everywhere.
KH2 and BBS have proved as much.

Not to mention, Nobodies don't age.

Mhm. See, this is where I have slight doubt in the theory, I have to be honest. Time.

In KHII FM+ Xigbar approaches Zexion in the Org's stronghold, saying that he's just found Marluxia and also that they were in the process of building Castle Oblivion. This was all happening before Roxas was inducted, let alone created. Ok, so we know from this that Axel is around. Axel was created before Roxas (the whole numbering thing in the Org=order of induction), and they're five numbers apart...either these four members between them were found at the same time, or there was a huge gap.

A very huge gap.

The gap between Riku joining with Xehanort's Heartless and Sora shanking himself is fairly small. Roxas came into the Organization not knowing a goshforsaken thing about himself or the world, and here we have everyone else knowing the exact opposite. They needed time to gather up all this knowledge and observe Sora/Roxas further, and they didn't exactly have that chance before Sora committed suicide. Back to Castle Cblivion. In Axel Seven Days Lexeaus reports to Zexion that Xemnas chose six members to be dispatched to the castle, which was more than likely completed. I'd say that around the time these members were chosen, Sora would have killed himself and Roxas would have showed up on the scene. In short, a lot was going on in the org: picking members, research and above all building castle oblivion. This all had to be done stat before the Blonde kid showed up. Axel was there for all of it. Months maybe, not a few hours.

If Riku and Axel really are somebody/nobody, I'd think a much better time for that creation to occur would be when Riku was in the realm of darkness--when people didn't know what the hell was going on. He was phased off the earth, didn't show up for a full year. But because Axel was already in the org with Roxas long before then, well sure as heck he can't be born after he's born. And he sure as heck can't be born hours before Roxas.

At least I'm honest with my faults in the theory.

 

[Audo]

There are far more faults in your theory than that alone.

And by the by, the Org didn't split up until after they discovered Nami, which was after they found Roxas. That was the reason they split up, because of the two of them.

Your eye-colour thing doesn't even check out:

 

[Swxpert]

Sadly, we already know that isn't the case.
1 year = 1 year everywhere.
10 years = 10 years everywhere.
KH2 and BBS have proved as much.

Not to mention, Nobodies don't age.

actually i forget which one it was but i thought that one of the organization DID for some reason age, it that was strange because yes nobodies arn't supposed to be able to.

 

[iZumi]

And..notice how I mentioned FAULTS. Yes; I'm aware. But, I'll return to talk about this layer on; I'm interested in serious objections and arguments regarding the theory. Deal with it as you please, no offense taken.

By the way--palette drop. Hm, didn't think you'd actually do it. But there you go. Proves that even certain renders are different from each other. But which is correct?

 

[Audo]

Trust me, they don't.
The only Nobody who has ever been shown to age was Naminé.
And she isn't even a real Nobody.

And..notice how I mentioned FAULTS. Yes; I'm aware. But, I'll return to talk about this layer on; I'm interested in serious objections and arguments regarding the theory. Deal with it as you please, no offense taken.

lol. I am seriously objecting it, there isn't even a shred of possibility contained within it.
And encase you missed my post edit, your eye thing doesnt even check out:

 

[iZumi]

Mhm, I caught it. Nice work. See, the purpose of this thread is to gather some information, from fandom, to counter the argument for another manifesto. You're all doing just fine.