Re-viewing KHII

[Launchpad]

Kingdom Hearts II was programmed a lot better than Kingdom Hearts. Movement, attacking, even a few graphical things, it all appears better. It's just a lot worse by design. The game was trying to be the most extreme Kingdom Hearts game it could be, and suffered by being shallow. Sora's combos carry him a great distance and clear out hoards of enemies at once. At some point, the Heartless stop being a threat. There are no challenging Heartless in the game. KH1 kept Heartless varied and challenging. The Heartless at Hollow Bastion and End of The World put up a genuine fight. KH1 enemies had specific weakpoints, but KHII enemies can be hit anywhere. KH1 had multiple pathways in each world and hidden treasures anywhere. KHIIFM kind of rectifies this, but the rewards aren't nearly as gratifying or interesting. KHII isn't even a bad game, it just created the biggest mess in the series and is one of the worst entries. I feel as though through BBS and DDD, those mistakes have been mostly rectified, and we're on the right path.

 

[Some guy]

I really had to create an account for this (sigh). First post here we go.

You people are really unfair to The_Echo, he is untitled to his opinion like anybody else. He just responded to an opinion with his own (as difficulty is subjective and all, on a small scale). Gotta keep respect going ...

That aside, I am one of the few that liked KH II more than I. Yes, it is flashy, but that is not all there is to it, at least for me.

Story:
KH I's story is simple (we can all agree on this I presume) but simple =/= good, the main villain (Ansem SoD) was just dropped out of nowhere, and Sora was oblivious to everything that happened for most of the game but still won at the end ...
I would say KH II's story is more complex than it is convoluted, and it makes sense for the most part (looking at you Namine). The nobodies were a natural thing to me (as KH I states the heartless are made from hearts, we even see a cutscene in traverse town at the beginning, so I always wondered what becomes of the body and here we have the answer). I actually prefer puzzly stories that require me to scratch my head a few days before making sense of everything, that may have something to do with it. Some people also complain about the Ansem/Xehanort reveal, saying it was an unnecessary twist, but what makes more sense: someone refered to as a wise man by his people (leon and gang) randomly "turning to the dark side" or an evil (more overcurious than anything) apprentice turning on his master and stealing his name? I'd take the latter ...

Gameplay:
KH I's rather sluggish and slow whereas KH II is fast paced and more fluid. Nothing much to say here as it's obvious which one's on top (I think).
A few things though: the horrible camera in KH I really ruined the platforming aspect of the game (I'm not a fan of platforms to begin with ...) and the form abilities could have been used better in KH II, but at least FM has the cavern of remembrance.
I didn't like the trinities (no love for the world specific party member, and too much backtracking: it took me hours in game and minutes on the net to find that last green trinity in wondrland that i totally forgot ...) nor the dalmatians (just another form of treasure chests).

Keyblades:
Most of the keyblades in KH I lost their utility by the end of the game, in KH II however the abilities linked to them make them usefull even postgame, this even makes decisive pumpkin the top damaging one with combo boost. It's not really the keyblade's reach that's wrong in KH I, it's Sora's reach ... more than once I swung at air, but maybe that's just me.
By the way, TAV's keyblades are not the same ... for example Terra's ultima is longer than Aqua's ultima which is longer than Ventus's ultima (this is what The_Echo was trying to say ... I think)

Difficulty:
The cause of all this turmoil ...
KH II is easy, but so is KH I. As it was already stated KH is not a game meant to be hard (on normal at least). Against mobs KH II is a press X to win, and KH I is a spam X and thunder.
I just finshed my final mix/ default equip/ low level run/ no continue run on 1.5 (+staff, -shield), and it was rather challenging; however the Mp rage/ Heal/ Leaf bracer combo makes Sora invicible and I could just tank the last boss (with aerora on) and heal when necessary ...
"Reaction commands make the game (KH II) too easy" I do not really agree with this statement, to me they just made each boss fight unique and memorable, and there is no fight you can win with just RC (exept for Xaldin, but that's the whole point of his battle: block> RC). Reflect is a game breaker, this I can agree with; this is why I didn't use it against the data battles and lingering will, so I can enjoy the battle more.
Difficulty is not really a matter though, as you can just decide to challenge yourself to your liking (no magic/ limits/ drives/ damage, initial equipement, low level, lv1, ...). Looking forward to my KH I lv1 run (but that last heartless wave at the EoW though ...).

Magic/ Mp:
I must be the only one who disliked KH I's Mp system (don't shot me down!).
KH I's Mp was abusable, you can use all the magic you want and never run out, because the lower the Mp, the easier it is to refill (which leads to heal spamming) and every "3/4 rooms" ther's a save point to refill the Mp. In this regard, KH II is worese as you can just heal> wait> heal ...
In an actual fight though, KH II's Mp system is better as you cannot spam magic, 1, 4-5 castings and you have to survive a limited time without magic.
However, I never had to use a single ether in both games (personal experience, no belittling meant). So, I'd rather have a system where the Mp does not refill IN ANY WAY (exept for item use of course), which would add to the difficulty too.

Disney:
"The disney part is integrated better in KH I" to a certain degree yes, to me the only parts of disney that's integrated to the overall story line of Kingdom Hearts are the princesses of Heart, Mickey/Donald/Goofy/Minnie/Daisy/Jiminy/etc, and Maleficent/pete, ... all the others are not as important. This is why I want to see the princesses return to the spotlight in KH III (and they should, given ddd's ending).
Storywise, the relevant worlds in KH I are traverse town, wonderland (princess), deep jungle (that argument between Sora and Donald was pretty much needed to reaffirm their motivations), agrabah (princess), monstro (puppet> heart thing, foreshadowing ddd's reveals), neverland (Kairi!), hollow bastion, and Eow.
The relevant worlds in KH II are twikight town (Yen Sid's tower is part of this too I guess), Hollow bastion/ Radiant garden, Space paranoids, Land of dragons (Riku?), Beat's castle (to a certain degree), disney castle/ timeless river (to me at least as it involves Maleficent's whereabouts), TWTNW, most of the revisits (though optional).
I think a revisit of the world, with original stories is a good thing as it gives incentive to replay the worlds (other than grinding and synthesis material search). And I want them to come back ...

In KH I, SDG were looking for Riku, Kairi, and the King, everything else just happened around that, at the end, only Kairi was saved ...
"In KH II SDG had no goal and were just wandering around" Not really they were still searching for Riku and The king which is why they needed to open new path to search for other world (killing heartless and nobodies along the way, being a keyblade wielder and nice guy on top), and the organization had other plan for them. Which is why Sora was moved by finding Riku (with Kairi it was just a "what?" face, because she was suposed to be safe you know?), he attained his goal after one year ... I don't understand the people seeing gayness here.


This turned out to be more like a rant as I was typing because of all this "KH I is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better" hype.
Well, to sum it up, KH II has it's flaws (story incoherences for the most part, nothing gamebreaking) but I still like it more than KH I (too simple a story for me, many lingering questions about Ansem's whereabouts and stuff, not so great gameplay). I realise I am one of the minorities but at least we can agree that everyone is untitled to their opinions?

Well, thanks for reading this man's thoughts. And I apologize for any misspelling I overlooked.

 

[Jotari]

I disagree with Ansem being dropped out of nowhere. He shows up at the start of the game and the Ansem reports help to solidify his presence slowly throughout the entire game. The fact that he is the villain is a twist but it isn't completely pulled out nowhere.

 

[Ruran]

KH2's plot I actually found neither more complex nor more convoluted than KH1's, it's more like it added a plethora of plot points on top of the others that were never explained. Despite KH1's surface simplicity, I think it stems more from the stories framing. It was very on point on what needed to be addressed, that being: saving Kairi, finding Riku and the king, and stopping the bad guys and sealing Keyholes. Once you break it down though, there's a ton of stuff that wasn't addressed.

We weren't told the purpose of the PoH and why they're special. They just defy all nature because, lol. The Keyblade was never explained. Riku being the "chosen one" wasn't explained. How the Keyblade devastated the world once wasn't explained. Hollow Bastion's Keyhole wasn't explained. What happened to bodies when one became a Heartless wasn't explained. Why Kingdom Hearts was chillin' out in the RoD of all places was never explained, and so on and so forth.

On its own, I don't think KH2 is much more complex than its predecessors, it just did little to answer previously established questions and just added a bunch more on top.

 

[Dr_Mario64]

Considering it IS the first game in the series I ever gave a proper thorough playthrough, I have a number of opinions on KH2, so I'll just list them off:

-First, story. Neither KH1 or KH2 explained things particularly well, so really there were more questions created than answered.
-The dialogue felt--how should I put it?--overly surreal...compared to the first game. The antagonists, in particular. They all sounded like they were speaking in riddles.
-The opening, I feel, is one of the best in video games. The first three hours did a great job of establishing Roxas' character and emphasizing the conflict that was about to unfold.
-Although the Disney worlds don't feel very important, they aren't really the focus of the story. I like that Kingdom Hearts has gone the direction of using them strictly for theming, these days, because I don't think the series could have found its identity otherwise. Do I wish some characters like Maleficent were a little more relevant? Of course, but for the most part, they're intended to be side characters with a sub-plot independent of the main characters.
-The entire world of Atlantica is a waste of resources. Disregarding the mediocre quality of the mini-games and the mediocre prizes they provide, the entire world is a plot hole! There were never any Heartless nor Nobodies upsetting the balance, so Sora and friends had no reason to be there. They were meddling!

 

[Ruran]

Considering it IS the first game in the series I ever gave a proper thorough playthrough, I have a number of opinions on KH2, so I'll just list them off:

-First, story. Neither KH1 or KH2 explained things particularly well, so really there were more questions created than answered.
-The dialogue felt--how should I put it?--overly surreal...compared to the first game. The antagonists, in particular. They all sounded like they were speaking in riddles.
-The opening, I feel, is one of the best in video games. The first three hours did a great job of establishing Roxas' character and emphasizing the conflict that was about to unfold.
-Although the Disney worlds don't feel very important, they aren't really the focus of the story. I like that Kingdom Hearts has gone the direction of using them strictly for theming, these days, because I don't think the series could have found its identity otherwise. Do I wish some characters like Maleficent were a little more relevant? Of course, but for the most part, they're intended to be side characters with a sub-plot independent of the main characters.
-The entire world of Atlantica is a waste of resources. Disregarding the mediocre quality of the mini-games and the mediocre prizes they provide, the entire world is a plot hole! There were never any Heartless nor Nobodies upsetting the balance, so Sora and friends had no reason to be there. They were meddling!

To be fair, KH2's Atlantica was completely optional. It was purely fan service (that no one asked for...). Though it does make me question why they just didn't make the visit non canon like some of the bonus scenes in KH1.

I have a love/hate relationship with the prologue. On one hand, it was a great little drama about a boy who was never meant to exist trying to come to terms with the fact that his entire life is a lie and he has no agency as he's jostled around for the benefit of others.

On the other hand, it was simultaneously really stupid...

It's just that it's the kind of thing that sounds great on paper, but I have to question the logic behind all this. It's mainly the digital Twilight Town thing that throws me off. I have so many questions regarding it, it's not even funny. That, and what AtW was thinking. I just can't find the rhyme or reason for him cooking up the plan he did and going through all that trouble. The whole needing to hide Roxas thing feels flimsy.

It's a good character drama supported by a contrived backdrop.

 

[Some guy]

I disagree with Ansem being dropped out of nowhere. He shows up at the start of the game and the Ansem reports help to solidify his presence slowly throughout the entire game. The fact that he is the villain is a twist but it isn't completely pulled out nowhere.

Indeed.

KH2's plot I actually found neither more complex nor more convoluted than KH1's, it's more like it added a plethora of plot points on top of the others that were never explained. Despite KH1's surface simplicity, I think it stems more from the stories framing. It was very on point on what needed to be addressed, that being: saving Kairi, finding Riku and the king, and stopping the bad guys and sealing Keyholes. Once you break it down though, there's a ton of stuff that wasn't addressed.

Maybe, for KH I, "straightforward" is the better term instead of simple? KH II explained bits and bits from time to time, which made the story give off a more complex feel to it, perhaps? But I agree that both games left a bunch of questions unanswered (more like plotholes), and most of those were answered way later in other games at least.

 

[Ruran]

Indeed.

Maybe, for KH I, "straightforward" is the better term instead of simple? KH II explained bits and bits from time to time, which made the story give off a more complex feel to it, perhaps? But I agree that both games left a bunch of questions unanswered (more like plotholes), and most of those were answered way later in other games at least.

Prolly~

KH1 certainly didn't lack content, it did a ton of world building but left much to the imagination. For better or for worse, only resolving the bare minimum of the conflict but almost never extending itself to build further on the plot points it introduced.

Idk, I thought the way KH1 revealed info lent itself more to a complex feel than 2. I think the main difference is that in KH2 we knew what the central conflict was from the beginning, while in 1 it escalated. It started off as a search and rescue mission with some funky stuff going on in the background that eventually made its way to the forefront.

I think I'd chalk it up to character drama and theme. KH1 was pretty black and white (these people are bad, these people are good, yadda, yadda) while 2 made more of an effort to hit that grey spot and bring up issues like who had the right to exist and such. It made an effort to try and be more "mature" on some level.

 

[Prince Enigma]

I have a love/hate relationship with the prologue. On one hand, it was a great little drama about a boy who was never meant to exist trying to come to terms with the fact that his entire life is a lie and he has no agency as he's jostled around for the benefit of others.

On the other hand, it was simultaneously really stupid...

It's just that it's the kind of thing that sounds great on paper, but I have to question the logic behind all this. It's mainly the digital Twilight Town thing that throws me off. I have so many questions regarding it, it's not even funny. That, and what AtW was thinking. I just can't find the rhyme or reason for him cooking up the plan he did and going through all that trouble. The whole needing to hide Roxas thing feels flimsy.

It's a good character drama supported by a contrived backdrop.

You see I saw the reasoning behind AtW creating a Digital Twilight Town to safely contain Roxas while Namine could weave together the rest of Sora's memories until it was time when they had to have Roxas join back with Sora. As both KH2 and Days show, after Roxas left the Organization, they made an effort to bring him back, because as we know, Xemnas needed a Keyblade wielder to release captive hearts. AtW probably knew that if he simply placed Roxas within the Real Twilight Town it would be too easy for the Nobodies or Axel to capture Roxas and bring him back. Hence the reason for the DTT so that AtW and Riku-Ansem could try and throw the Nobodies off track and away from Twilight Town. And it worked for a while, until the Nobodies discovered the DTT and managed to break through along with Axel. So we know that the DTT had its flaws on the account of AtW not being able to get enough data, he said himself that he had to stop Roxas and the Digital Hayner, Pence and Olette from going to the beach, because he hadn't created a digital version of it yet. Also the Nobodies did manage to get inside the DTT, but because AtW had created it, he could control the outcome of the Nobodies presence by freezing time or equipping Roxas with a digital Keyblade (at least I think it was a digital version, I'm not to sure on that part) Anyway, if Roxas was in the Real TT he would have been captured, and there would have been no KH2 really, so I do see the point in AtW's creation of the DTT and I didn't find myself having any major questions with it. I personally found it all easy to follow.

As for actually playing through the prologue, I loved it. It was a brilliant way of introducing Roxas I thought, and made him unanimously loved by fans because of the tragic turn of events, and the revelation about who he is and his past.

Edit: Oh and I'm also of the opinion that KH1 was better than KH2, but my reasoning has been stated by nearly everyone else here, so I won't rehash over anything people have already said.

 

[Some guy]

KH1 certainly didn't lack content, it did a ton of world building but left much to the imagination. For better or for worse, only resolving the bare minimum of the conflict but almost never extending itself to build further on the plot points it introduced.

Exactly.

Idk, I thought the way KH1 revealed info lent itself more to a complex feel than 2. I think the main difference is that in KH2 we knew what the central conflict was from the beginning, while in 1 it escalated. It started off as a search and rescue mission with some funky stuff going on in the background that eventually made its way to the forefront.

Not really, as in KH II, the prologue was more of a mystery than anything, then we know who the enemies are but not their motivation, later at Hollow bastion SDG find out about the Heart and stuff, only at the end do they learn about what they intend to do with KH.

I think I'd chalk it up to character drama and theme. KH1 was pretty black and white (these people are bad, these people are good, yadda, yadda) while 2 made more of an effort to hit that grey spot and bring up issues like who had the right to exist and such. It made an effort to try and be more "mature" on some level

Pretty much.

On an unrelated note, could someone please tell me how to quote a specific user?

 

[Dr_Mario64]

Exactly.


Not really, as in KH II, the prologue was more of a mystery than anything, then we know who the enemies are but not their motivation, later at Hollow bastion SDG find out about the Heart and stuff, only at the end do they learn about what they intend to do with KH.


Pretty much.

On an unrelated note, could someone please tell me how to quote a specific user?

Sure. If you want to quote just one user, simply click "Reply With Quote" under their comment. If you want to quote multiple users, click the "+ button under each comment you want to quote and THEN click "Reply With Quote".

 

[Some guy]

Sure. If you want to quote just one user, simply click "Reply With Quote" under their comment. If you want to quote multiple users, click the "+ button under each comment you want to quote and THEN click "Reply With Quote".

Thank you, you've been a great help

 

[morgancb35]

I feel the same way. Kh2 was so awesome at the time, and still is fun, but compared to kh1 it is flawed in a few areas.

 

[King Sora X]

In terms of features, then yes KH2 is superior to KH1, but for me KH1 always presented a more difficult challenge. Plus, I think story-wise KH1 proved to be a little better. At least, in my opinion it was.

 

[MegaCore5]

In terms of features, then yes KH2 is superior to KH1, but for me KH1 always presented a more difficult challenge. Plus, I think story-wise KH1 proved to be a little better. At least, in my opinion it was.

Just because the game has a bunch of content doesn't mean it is good (which I'm glad you pointed out). In my opinion the first game for any series doesn't need to have a lot of content because the purpose is to create a captivating story line before were worrying about the gameplay. For this reason I never judge a entire series by next first one. For example the assassins creed series had a very bad humble beginning but then sprouted after that as a great one!

 

[King Sora X]

Just because the game has a bunch of content doesn't mean it is good (which I'm glad you pointed out). In my opinion the first game for any series doesn't need to have a lot of content because the purpose is to create a captivating story line before were worrying about the gameplay. For this reason I never judge a entire series by next first one. For example the assassins creed series had a very bad humble beginning but then sprouted after that as a great one!

From my experience, the more content that there was in a game, the better it was. Maybe I'm the only one on that boat.

 

[omnipresent]

In terms of features, then yes KH2 is superior to KH1, but for me KH1 always presented a more difficult challenge. Plus, I think story-wise KH1 proved to be a little better. At least, in my opinion it was.

Agreed. Unfortunately sequels usually aren't as good as the first. Not always true at all. But I think its true with KH. KHII is still great just KHI was better.

 

[rufusisaghost]

I personally think the storyline and plot is much better in KH2. It appeals to me a lot more. Maybe it's because of my deep interest in the Organization...I love the characters more in KHII and wanted to know all about them. I didn't quite feel that way in the first game, though I still was very good. Now, I do agree that the gameplay in KHI was a LOT better. It was harder and more complex, especially the hidden bosses that took FOREVER and a ton of skill. (Although for some reason I beat Sephiroth easier in KHI than II...) The gameplay in II seemed like it was made to be easier, and while I still had fun, it wasn't as challenging.

 

[MegaCore5]

I personally think the storyline and plot is much better in KH2. It appeals to me a lot more. Maybe it's because of my deep interest in the Organization...I love the characters more in KHII and wanted to know all about them. I didn't quite feel that way in the first game, though I still was very good. Now, I do agree that the gameplay in KHI was a LOT better. It was harder and more complex, especially the hidden bosses that took FOREVER and a ton of skill. (Although for some reason I beat Sephiroth easier in KHI than II...) The gameplay in II seemed like it was made to be easier, and while I still had fun, it wasn't as challenging.

the plot for KH2 was perhaps a little bit too strong and focused less on character development like it in the first game. I did like all the plot twists in this game especially the one with ansem not really being ansem. I like the idea of the organization as well.

 

[Anthony12KH]

KH2 was great game in terms of gameplay. It was easier than KH1. As for the story, after I play 2.5, I can review that again since the last time I played it was about 6 years ago.