Rapunzel's Crown

[Veritas7]

This thread is perhaps a bit late, but upon one of my repeated playthroughs, I have this question. Gothel discovers the crown in the tower beneath the stairs. Yet, later Rapunzel suddenly has the crown when she and Flynn are watching the lanterns. How?

 

[AR829038]

This thread is perhaps a bit late, but upon one of my repeated playthroughs, I have this question. Gothel discovers the crown in the tower beneath the stairs. Yet, later Rapunzel suddenly has the crown when she and Flynn are watching the lanterns. How?

Good catch.
They don't show it in the game, since the game can't cover the entire movie, but in the film Tangled, there's a scene in the middle when Mother Gothel confronts Rapunzel in the forest and tries to get her to question Flynn's motives for helping her. She tries to reason with her that Flynn doesn't actually care about her, he's just using her as a means to getting what he wants, which is the crown, which would enable him to make a lot of money and live a life of luxury. So she gives Rapunzel the satchel with the crown in it and tells her to give it to him as a way of testing his loyalty. That's why he has it by the end.
Unfortunately, a lot of the worlds in KH3 have this sort of problem. Disney tries to keep Square from diverging from the source material, so in doing this they inevitably run into problems with having to cut plot points in these worlds' stories, as trying to fit so much of the movie-accurate cutscenes would take up a ton of time between gameplay and ruin the momentum. Basically half of the worlds in this game basically demand you to actually watch the movies first, because you simply won't get sufficient context with what the game's version of the narrative throws at you. The Caribbean was by far the worst offender in this category.

 

[Veritas7]

Good catch.
They don't show it in the game, since the game can't cover the entire movie, but in the film Tangled, there's a scene in the middle when Mother Gothel confronts Rapunzel in the forest and tries to get her to question Flynn's motives for helping her. She tries to reason with her that Flynn doesn't actually care about her, he's just using her as a means to getting what he wants, which is the crown, which would enable him to make a lot of money and live a life of luxury. So she gives Rapunzel the satchel with the crown in it and tells her to give it to him as a way of testing his loyalty. That's why he has it by the end.
Unfortunately, a lot of the worlds in KH3 have this sort of problem. Disney tries to keep Square from diverging from the source material, so in doing this they inevitably run into problems with having to cut plot points in these worlds' stories, as trying to fit so much of the movie-accurate cutscenes would take up a ton of time between gameplay and ruin the momentum. Basically half of the worlds in this game basically demand you to actually watch the movies first, because you simply won't get sufficient context with what the game's version of the narrative throws at you. The Caribbean was by far the worst offender in this category.

Thanks! Oh, I see, now it makes sense. I saw Tangled only once, so I didn't remember that. They could have easily added a scene to rectify that. It felt jarring.

I disagree about the Caribbean part, but I might be biased because I'm a big fan. Combining the Kraken from 2 and the Calypso Maelstrom from 3 felt like a cool original spin.

I agree, however, that the summary of Pirates 2 was lackluster at best

 

[AR829038]

Thanks! Oh, I see, now it makes sense. I saw Tangled only once, so I didn't remember that. They could have easily added a scene to rectify that. It felt jarring.

I disagree about the Caribbean part, but I might be biased because I'm a big fan. Combining the Kraken from 2 and the Calypso Maelstrom from 3 felt like a cool original spin.

I agree, however, that the summary of Pirates 2 was lackluster at best

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I LOVED the Caribbean world. In fact, it was my favorite world in the entire series! But as someone who's seen At World's End several times, it really doesn't do much for people who haven't seen it. There is SO MUCH context missing from the game's narrative of the story. But it's an acceptable shortcoming in my eyes. Less time with a retread of the movie, more time with exploration.

 

[AegisXIII]

There is definitely a plot hole here. And it annoyed me so much while playing. Nothing in the game makes you think Rapunzel saw her mother before Marluxia arrived.

As for the pirates movie, there is more of them as well. Mostly Calypso. Sora should have been part of the people freeing her, since she requested it and it was brought up multiple times.

 

[The Dark Mamba]

That's not even the worst plot hole in that world.

Why the hell did Flynn leave Rapunzel during the lanterns scene? In the movie it's because of the Stabbington brothers but they're not in KH3 so the whole context of the scene in the game makes no sense.

Corona, Arendelle and Pirates were all guilty of requiring you to see the movie to understand the plot. Personally, I feel previous Disney worlds that had stories based on the movie didn't have this problem. If you had never seen the respective films you'd have no idea how Rapunzel got the crown, who the hell is Hans or what the hell SDG missed out on during the middle of At World's End.

 

[Veritas7]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I LOVED the Caribbean world. In fact, it was my favorite world in the entire series! But as someone who's seen At World's End several times, it really doesn't do much for people who haven't seen it. There is SO MUCH context missing from the game's narrative of the story. But it's an acceptable shortcoming in my eyes. Less time with a retread of the movie, more time with exploration.

Well then it looks like we fully agree then lol.

There is definitely a plot hole here. And it annoyed me so much while playing. Nothing in the game makes you think Rapunzel saw her mother before Marluxia arrived.

As for the pirates movie, there is more of them as well. Mostly Calypso. Sora should have been part of the people freeing her, since she requested it and it was brought up multiple times.

Yes! Sora should have used the Keyblade to free Calypso. I always wondered why the game would bring it up multiple times only for it to mean nothing.

That's not even the worst plot hole in that world.

Why the hell did Flynn leave Rapunzel during the lanterns scene? In the movie it's because of the Stabbington brothers but they're not in KH3 so the whole context of the scene in the game makes no sense.

Corona, Arendelle and Pirates were all guilty of requiring you to see the movie to understand the plot. Personally, I feel previous Disney worlds that had stories based on the movie didn't have this problem. If you had never seen the respective films you'd have no idea how Rapunzel got the crown, who the hell is Hans or what the hell SDG missed out on during the middle of At World's End.

Hmm, that is a bad plot hole, but I think the crown one is worse. At least with Flynn, we can assume he is having a moment of weakness in considering whether to steal the crown.

Hans might be the worst of them all. He never has a line, is never given a name, and is never addressed in the plot other than that one instance when Sora remarks that someone is carrying Elsa away.

 

[SweetYetSalty]

That's not even the worst plot hole in that world.

Why the hell did Flynn leave Rapunzel during the lanterns scene? In the movie it's because of the Stabbington brothers but they're not in KH3 so the whole context of the scene in the game makes no sense.

Corona, Arendelle and Pirates were all guilty of requiring you to see the movie to understand the plot. Personally, I feel previous Disney worlds that had stories based on the movie didn't have this problem. If you had never seen the respective films you'd have no idea how Rapunzel got the crown, who the hell is Hans or what the hell SDG missed out on during the middle of At World's End.

Plot holes indeed. I put this on the 'Nitpick' thread but Arendelle has one where Elsa restores her kingdom and gets rid of all the snow and ice. But whenever you go back to Arendelle it's still snowy and icy. Arendelle is still covered in snow, the only change is there is no windstorm in that one area.

 

[Veritas7]

Plot holes indeed. I put this on the 'Nitpick' thread but Arendelle has one where Elsa restores her kingdom and gets rid of all the snow and ice. But whenever you go back to Arendelle it's still snowy and icy. Arendelle is still covered in snow, the only change is there is no windstorm in that one area.

Not to be nitpicky about your nitpick lol, but do gameplay mechanics really count as plot holes? I always figure that if it is not in a cut-scene, it is not part of the plot. So because the restoration was the last cut-scene, the fact that it's still snowy when you return does not count, at least in my book

 

[SweetYetSalty]

Not to be nitpicky about your nitpick lol, but do gameplay mechanics really count as plot holes? I always figure that if it is not in a cut-scene, it is not part of the plot. So because the restoration was the last cut-scene, the fact that it's still snowy when you return does not count, at least in my book

That's a fair question. Yes they do when they have impact on the story. We see Arendelle restored only to return and it's back to snow. I know the reason why because it doesn't make sense to remake that world with no snow, but then don't show that cutscene of Elsa restoring the world only for it not to be restored whenever you visit. In Toy Box the world is left split until the end credits, so why not do the same for Arendelle? There need to be consistency.

 

[Veritas7]

That's a fair question. Yes they do when they have impact on the story. We see Arendelle restored only to return and it's back to snow. I know the reason why because it doesn't make sense to remake that world with no snow, but then don't show that cutscene of Elsa restoring the world only for it not to be restored whenever you visit. In Toy Box the world is left split until the end credits, so why not do the same for Arendelle? There need to be consistency.

That could be a valid point, but I'm not seeing the inconsistency. Although Toy Box stayed split pursuant to the plot, the fact remains that the world didn't change, just like Arendelle didn't change. To me, there would be an inconsistency if there was a world that did change because of the plot and remained changed whenever you revisit it. I'm trying to recall one in KH3 off the top of my head, but nothing comes to mind right now. Do you have an example?

 

[SweetYetSalty]

That could be a valid point, but I'm not seeing the inconsistency. Although Toy Box stayed split pursuant to the plot, the fact remains that the world didn't change, just like Arendelle didn't change. To me, there would be an inconsistency if there was a world that did change because of the plot and remained changed whenever you revisit it. I'm trying to recall one in KH3 off the top of my head, but nothing comes to mind right now. Do you have an example?

Well this is the only one where the 'world' itself changes but that shouldn't be a excuse. That would be like the Beast turning back into a prince after defeating Xaldin in cutscene but then going back to his castle he's still the Beast. Tangled's world removed Rapunzel from your party and she gets shorter hair because of the events in the game. This sticks every time you go back. We send Boo back to her world in Monstropolis and she no longer follows the party because she's back home. Back in KH1 whenever you go back into Monstro all of Geppetto's stuff from the ship is gone after the events of the story. It's little things like this that show progress and that the parties actions do change the world.

It's not a major complaint of mine, it's just a nitpick. Whether they had done that or not would not have changed my overall feel of the Arendelle world, I was just pointing it out. If they wanted to show Elsa restore the kingdom, then wait until the end credits so you don't run into this nitpick. The only other time something like this has happened that I can think of is in Space Paranoids when Tron fuses with the system but he'll remain a party member whenever you revisit. I think that's how it went.

 

[Veritas7]

Well this is the only one where the 'world' itself changes but that shouldn't be a excuse. That would be like the Beast turning back into a prince after defeating Xaldin in cutscene but then going back to his castle he's still the Beast. Tangled's world removed Rapunzel from your party and she gets shorter hair because of the events in the game. This sticks every time you go back. We send Boo back to her world in Monstropolis and she no longer follows the party because she's back home. Back in KH1 whenever you go back into Monstro all of Geppetto's stuff from the ship is gone after the events of the story. It's little things like this that show progress and that the parties actions do change the world.

It's not a major complaint of mine, it's just a nitpick. Whether they had done that or not would not have changed my overall feel of the Arendelle world, I was just pointing it out. If they wanted to show Elsa restore the kingdom, then wait until the end credits so you don't run into this nitpick. The only other time something like this has happened that I can think of is in Space Paranoids when Tron fuses with the system but he'll remain a party member whenever you revisit. I think that's how it went.

Well said. Those are all great examples, and now I think I agree with you.

 

[SweetYetSalty]

Well said. Those are all great examples, and now I think I agree with you.

What they could have done is when you talk to Elsa she could say she brought the snow back on the mountain for them to play around in and would clear it again later. That would have been a decent enough excuse for the in-game logic. Though they should have edited Arendelle in the distance lol.

 

[Veritas7]

What they could have done is when you talk to Elsa she could say she brought the snow back on the mountain for them to play around in and would clear it again later. That would have been a decent enough excuse for the in-game logic. Though they should have edited Arendelle in the distance lol.

That's a good idea. Lol imagine if Elsa told them that Arendelle in the distance was just a snow mirage, and that it is actually still free from snow lol

 

[Soldier]

The answer's obvious man, come on! It's clearly because of master Xehanort using his overpowered abilities to warp it from one person's hands to another. Keep up!

 

[WaltK]

That's not even the worst plot hole in that world.

Why the hell did Flynn leave Rapunzel during the lanterns scene? In the movie it's because of the Stabbington brothers but they're not in KH3 so the whole context of the scene in the game makes no sense.

I love how they even forgot to alter Gothel’s dialogue in that one scene to account for their absence. The scene where she knocks out the brothers to save Rapunzel is changed so she hits and kills Marluxia’s nobodies instead, who naturally evaporate into nothing after being hit, but she still says “let’s go before they come to!”

 

[DizneyXBirds95]

This thread is perhaps a bit late, but upon one of my repeated playthroughs, I have this question. Gothel discovers the crown in the tower beneath the stairs. Yet, later Rapunzel suddenly has the crown when she and Flynn are watching the lanterns. How?

Regarding the Satchel and Crown, more than likely Gothel gave it to Rapunzel off-screen after her only encounter with Sora, Donald and Goofy in the swamp as it was mentioned in the Journal entry description in Jiminy's Journal and pretty much it was just like what happened in the original movie:

I'm going to be honest Kingdom of Corona raised more questions than answers compared to The Caribbean and Arendelle, cause it sure doesn't look like Rapunzel's journey from the tower to the Kingdom was two days like in the film, I don't think that Rapunzel and Flynn EVER went to the Snuggly Duckling with the Pub Thugs and the Dam like in the movie when they separated from SDG while the trio were fighting off the Reaper Nobodies, and I don't think that the Guards were also after Flynn as it was only Maximus that chased him which would explain his dialogue:

Flynn: "The horse was enough, I don't need monsters on my trail."

Even the scene with Sora, Donald, Goofy and their first and ONLY interaction with Mother Gothel still raised Red Flags, to be frank and If I were in their shoes or be right beside them and if Gothel gave me the cold shoulder calling me "useless and of no help" I too would raise an eyebrow and think to myself you know something feels of with this woman.

Plus, not only did they drastically changed Flynn's character but both Sora, Donald and Goofy remained blissfully unaware that Flynn/Eugene got knocked out and when they (particularly Donald and Goofy) see him again they don't question what happened to him they just say, "Flynn Sora's unconscious" and later "Oh no Rapunzel is held Captive" etc. it felt too preachy and over the top.

Hmm, that is a bad plot hole, but I think the crown one is worse. At least with Flynn, we can assume he is having a moment of weakness in considering whether to steal the crown.

Hans might be the worst of them all. He never has a line, is never given a name, and is never addressed in the plot other than that one instance when Sora remarks that someone is carrying Elsa away.

@Veritas7 Frankly, I have to respectfully disagree with you Flynn/Eugene’s character in the game was vastly different compared to his role in the original movie. Basically as the Stabbington Brothers were written out of the game and replaced with Marluxia (believe me EVERYONE but their Grandmothers saw this a mile away when the film was announced as a world and knew he was going to replace the brothers when they saw the Reaper Nobodies) he is the ONLY thief that steals the crown and his reasonings on why he wanted to return the crown and Satchel in KH3 felt not only lacking and “forced” but it had little to no purpose compared to why he wanted to return it in the original movie.

I'd say the worst one was when Sora, Donald, Goofy (who is supposed to be the intelligent one of the trio) didn’t grow suspicious with Mother Gothel after their first and ONLY encounter with her especially when she coldly dismissed them and said they were “useless and of no help”. I mean If I was present with them and after our first encounter with Gothel once she dismiss us and leaves, I too would be the first to question and feel suspicious about Gothel especially when she coldly dismiss us as “useless” and wether if she really is Rapunzel’s “real mother” (which she isn’t). Even if they didn't know about Hans or physically met him back in Arendelle at least they know he's up to no good compared to their only encounter Gothel who they remained blissfully clueless until Marluxia tolds the trio through Context.

Oh yeah and Marluxia, I'm sorry but even if Marluxia thematically fit the world, neither Rapunzel and Mother Gothel respectively never brought up his name again for the remainder of the world after their first and encounter of him which made his appearance very pointless in the world. At least with Monstropolis, Toy Box and San Fransokyo, the inhabitants do acknowledged the Organization XIII member (Young Xehanort, Vanitas, and Dark Riku) and not brush them off like it never happened compared to Kingdom of Corona, particularly the former world when Randall had a "teamup" with Vanitas.

I'm not saying Arendelle is above Corona or better than that Corona, that's not the point, but when compared to the other KH3 Disney worlds stories I feel that Kingdom of Corona was below The Caribbean, San Fransokyo, Olympus, Monstropolis, and Toy Box.

That's not even the worst plot hole in that world.

Why the hell did Flynn leave Rapunzel during the lanterns scene? In the movie it's because of the Stabbington brothers but they're not in KH3 so the whole context of the scene in the game makes no sense.

Corona, Arendelle and Pirates were all guilty of requiring you to see the movie to understand the plot. Personally, I feel previous Disney worlds that had stories based on the movie didn't have this problem. If you had never seen the respective films you'd have no idea how Rapunzel got the crown, who the hell is Hans or what the hell SDG missed out on during the middle of At World's End.

@The Dark Mamba Anyone who haven't seen the original movie that the level is based on (e.g. Tangled, The Pirates movies (which is understandable cause they either ONLY saw the first film and/or second film. Not so much the third film as it was a VERY divisive film for PoTC fans), Tron (also understandable, which I'll get into), and maybe The Princess and the Frog, Wreck-it Ralph, Moana and Zootopia) they either will get confused or don't know what is going on here if they haven't seen the movie first prior to playing the level. Which is funny, cause Tangled is still one of Disney's most well-known animated films in the last decade other than Frozen, Zootopia, etc., and it does perplexed me to not see not many people watching the movie before playing the level in KH3. At least with Tron when it became a level in KH2 it made sense cause not many people particularly those who were born in the 1990's and 2000's (including myself) weren't familiar with this obscure Disney film and they didn't started watching that film after they played the level in KH2.

I also agree @The Dark Mamba that they drastically changed Flynn/Eugene’s character in the game compared to his role in the original movie. Basically as the Stabbington Brothers were written out of the game and replaced with Marluxia (believe me EVERYONE but their Grandmothers saw this a mile away when the film was announced as a world and knew he was going to replace the brothers) he is the ONLY thief that steals the crown and his reasonings on why he wanted to return the crown and Satchel in KH3 felt not only lacking and “forced” but it had little to no purpose compared to why he wanted to return it in the original movie.

Even the rest of the third act of the world (Gothel stabbing Flynn/Eugene, Eugene cutting Rapunzel's hair causing Gothel aged to dust, Rapunzel healing Flynn/Eugene) just had Sora Donald and Goofy being just "There" in the background not knowing what's happening ever since Flynn went of to the tower to rescue Rapunzel (yeah they saw Gothel's cloak before it was immediately turned into the Grim Guardianess Heartless and witness Flynn/Eugene dying until Rapunzel revived him with the Healing incantation) but they weren't acknowledged by the cast until after Eugene was Healed. Just Imagine if SDG were involved during the climax of Wreck-It Ralph, Moana and Zootopia but are just "there" in the background doing their own conflict (e.g. Fighting a Giant Heartless), while the movies characters just primarily play out like in the movie but SDG don't get acknowledged by the film's cast until after the conflict is solved.

Personally, Kingdom of Corona raised more questions than answers when compared to The Caribbean and Arendelle.

 

[DizneyXBirds95]

Good catch.
They don't show it in the game, since the game can't cover the entire movie, but in the film Tangled, there's a scene in the middle when Mother Gothel confronts Rapunzel in the forest and tries to get her to question Flynn's motives for helping her. She tries to reason with her that Flynn doesn't actually care about her, he's just using her as a means to getting what he wants, which is the crown, which would enable him to make a lot of money and live a life of luxury. So she gives Rapunzel the satchel with the crown in it and tells her to give it to him as a way of testing his loyalty. That's why he has it by the end.
Unfortunately, a lot of the worlds in KH3 have this sort of problem. Disney tries to keep Square from diverging from the source material, so in doing this they inevitably run into problems with having to cut plot points in these worlds' stories, as trying to fit so much of the movie-accurate cutscenes would take up a ton of time between gameplay and ruin the momentum. Basically half of the worlds in this game basically demand you to actually watch the movies first, because you simply won't get sufficient context with what the game's version of the narrative throws at you. The Caribbean was by far the worst offender in this category.

Honestly Kingdom of Corona takes the cake with the most plot holes when compared to The Caribbean and even Arendelle.

Not to mention Rapunzel's journey from the tower to the Kingdom wasn't two days like in the film, cause I don't think that Rapunzel and Flynn EVER went to the Snuggly Duckling with the Pub Thugs and the Dam like in the movie when they separated from SDG while the trio were fighting off the Reaper Nobodies

 

[KGSWGENE]

This thread is perhaps a bit late, but upon one of my repeated playthroughs, I have this question. Gothel discovers the crown in the tower beneath the stairs. Yet, later Rapunzel suddenly has the crown when she and Flynn are watching the lanterns. How?

The story section of Kingdom of Corona in the Gummiphone explains that Mother Gother gave Rapunzel the crown.