Radical & Tumblr Feminists Disrupt MRA Meeting At University of Toronto

[Pinwheel]

I think feminist activists are probably one of the most counter-productive groups in the world. When you call somebody "fucking scum" and yell at people to "shut the fuck up" like 40 times in a row, how do you expect to get them to ever agree with you?

People like this slowly make me wish I was a misogynist so I had even more reason to hate them.

 

[ajmrowland]

People are dumb. Some women thing every problem stems from The Patriarchy (tm); some men think that the most oppressed class on Earth are straight, white men.

Reality, as always, lies between the extremes.

This. We always look to blame the other demographics. blacks, whites, men, women, children, parents, etc are always blaming each other when they're or even when they're not blaming modern society, and it often has about as much ground as Tracey Jordan's claims against what he think is racism. And he's a crazy fictional character on tv.


As has been discussed before this thread was made, men do sometimes face harsher judgement than women simply because we're men.

 

[Orion]

A problem with feminist theory is it tries to reduce all difference between the sexes as culture-induced gender roles, when we know for a fact that people don't start out as gender-neutral blank slates. Boys - and men - have certain proclivities different to girls and women. Boys fall behind in school while also being labelled as dysfunctionally hyperactive, when the behaviour they exhibit isn't at all unusual, but perfectly natural. Children - and more so boys than girls - need physical activity and immersion in nature to balance any inactive, mundane activities and still be attentive. Outdoor activity for children more and more these days is seen as a matter or physical health, instead of a necessary time of recreation that is necessary for mental growth. Feminism (and its stance on cultured gender roles) said boys should behave similarly to girls, and when they don't they get medicated by a system that benefits when there are more medicated children. The point is that some gender roles and activities are actually ingrained, and when we take a contrary attitude it can lead to actual harm.

 

[ajmrowland]

Just another thing about which the native Americans knew better than us. I'm of course referring to the ingrained gender roles and outdoor activity.

 

[Solar]

On the topic, I saw this floating around the interwebs:

The Journal of Personality and Social Psychology has dealt a devastating blow to the notion that men and women are fundamentally different when it comes to how they think and act.“Although gender differences on average are not under dispute, the idea of consistently and inflexibly gender-typed individuals is,” Bobbi J. Carothers of Washington University in St. Louis and Harry T. Reis of the University of Rochester explained in their study. “That is, there are not two distinct genders, but instead there are linear gradations of variables associated with sex, such as masculinity or intimacy, all of which are continuous.”Analyzing 122 different characteristics from 13,301 individuals in 13 studies, the researchers concluded that differences between men and women were best seen as dimensional rather than categorical. In other words, the differences between men and women should be viewed as a matter of degree rather than a sign of consistent differences between two distinct groups.

Thoughts?

 

[ajmrowland]

On the topic, I saw this floating around the interwebs:

The Journal of Personality and Social Psychology has dealt a devastating blow to the notion that men and women are fundamentally different when it comes to how they think and act.“Although gender differences on average are not under dispute, the idea of consistently and inflexibly gender-typed individuals is,” Bobbi J. Carothers of Washington University in St. Louis and Harry T. Reis of the University of Rochester explained in their study. “That is, there are not two distinct genders, but instead there are linear gradations of variables associated with sex, such as masculinity or intimacy, all of which are continuous.”Analyzing 122 different characteristics from 13,301 individuals in 13 studies, the researchers concluded that differences between men and women were best seen as dimensional rather than categorical. In other words, the differences between men and women should be viewed as a matter of degree rather than a sign of consistent differences between two distinct groups.

Thoughts?

What I'm hearing here is that he's saying even some of the biological differences between the sexes can be overridden, based on the individual. I agree with that.

 

[Orion]

What I'm hearing here is that he's saying even some of the biological differences between the sexes can be overridden, based on the individual. I agree with that.

Using such language as you have is tricky when talking about sex and gender. Much of the time, biological is used to refer to the physiology of individuals, not necessarily always inclusive of their neurology. And it's not even a matter of an individual 'overriding' those differences. The characteristics we associate with particular genders lie along a continuum, and there's nothing stopping an individual from being anywhere along that line. However, when you stack up enough individuals, you start getting a picture approximating the typical 'gendered' traits.

 

[Deleted member 36435]

anyone college freshman or high school student who has taken an intro to psych course knows about biology vs environment/nature vs nurture. so when people say biology in this sense it is okay to do so. :\\\\\\\\\\\\

 

[ajmrowland]

Using such language as you have is tricky when talking about sex and gender. Much of the time, biological is used to refer to the physiology of individuals, not necessarily always inclusive of their neurology. And it's not even a matter of an individual 'overriding' those differences. The characteristics we associate with particular genders lie along a continuum, and there's nothing stopping an individual from being anywhere along that line. However, when you stack up enough individuals, you start getting a picture approximating the typical 'gendered' traits.

Yes, but when you think about how different people have different childhoods and life experiences, you start to see a possibility of genetic gender traits to be nullified without entirely negative effects.

 

[Phoenix]

Using such language as you have is tricky when talking about sex and gender. Much of the time, biological is used to refer to the physiology of individuals, not necessarily always inclusive of their neurology. And it's not even a matter of an individual 'overriding' those differences. The characteristics we associate with particular genders lie along a continuum, and there's nothing stopping an individual from being anywhere along that line. However, when you stack up enough individuals, you start getting a picture approximating the typical 'gendered' traits.

That's the problem with stereotypes; they're based on perceptions of the middle of the bell curve. But the bell curve isn't just the middle, and when you treat everyone according to it (and for the most part, you'll be wrong about that anyway), you're diddlying up in a really lazy way.

That's why the biological argument sucks, because people use it to refer to all members of a group. "Women are like this, so we should do this". And that's crap. Treat people as individuals and you'll have a more accurate representation of that person than you will if you just use your generalizations as a pocket guide.

 

[Phoenix]

The stereotype? Not always. A lot of white Americans in the good old days knew good negroes; not like all the rest, who were bad.

 

[Solar]

Canadian feminist activist receives death threats and other abuse after being targeted by Men’s Rights Activists | man boobz

Wow.

 

[Orion]

Shit, it's an online space and you can expect this from anyone ideologically or emotionally motivated, but it's totally like someone with a victim-complex to characterise the actions of individuals as the actions condoned by a movement as a whole.

 

[Taochan]

Canadian feminist activist receives death threats and other abuse after being targeted by Men’s Rights Activists | man boobz

Wow.

Oh god, this is disgusting.

I don't condone how she carried herself at all, because frankly I thought she was incredibly rude and obnoxious... but this is too much. She doesn't speak for all of feminists; she's just one of the vocal women who totally went overboard.

But in no way does that mean she deserves to have her information scattered all over the internet, to feel unsafe and threatened on a constant everyday basis. Nor does it mean these awful people should be able to speak to her that way. Ugh. I feel bad for her.

 

[Solar]

Shit, it's an online space and you can expect this from anyone ideologically or emotionally motivated, but it's totally like someone with a victim-complex to characterise the actions of individuals as the actions condoned by a movement as a whole.

You're right man, those darn moderate (re: regular) feminists with their doxxing and misandry and invasion of privacy and rape threats! Just as bad as fundie MRAs, the only such prone to this type of behaviour repeatedly.

 

[Nyangoro]

You're right man, those darn moderate (re: regular) feminists with their doxxing and misandry and invasion of privacy and rape threats! Just as bad as fundie MRAs, the only such prone to this type of behaviour repeatedly.

Oh come now, you know that's not a fair comparison when it's obvious that the whole issue of his post is dealing with how wrong it is to use the fringe of any given group to describe the whole.

 

[Theart]

Canadian feminist activist receives death threats and other abuse after being targeted by Men’s Rights Activists | man boobz

Wow.

I sympathize for her. I really, really do. That is downright disgusting, and I hope things die down soon for her sake. Hope she's safe.

However, that does not at all condone what she and the other protesters involved at that event did either. The article you linked really portrays her in a victimized way and makes light of what she got herself involved in.

Her offense was that she "wasn’t exactly polite in responding to the interrupters"? That's a bit of an understatement. And considering that she refused to let others speak, is it really fair to call the other people present 'interrupters'? She and the other protesters were the ones that forced a meeting on gender equality to end by pulling the fire alarm, which also wasted the time of the fire department. What if there had been a real fire elsewhere that the fire fighters were delayed in responding to because of this?

Oh god, this is disgusting.

I don't condone how she carried herself at all, because frankly I thought she was incredibly rude and obnoxious... but this is too much. She doesn't speak for all of feminists; she's just one of the vocal women who totally went overboard.

But in no way does that mean she deserves to have her information scattered all over the internet, to feel unsafe and threatened on a constant everyday basis. Nor does it mean these awful people should be able to speak to her that way. Ugh. I feel bad for her.

This.

 

[Moonlight Aqua]

Oh god, this is disgusting.

I don't condone how she carried herself at all, because frankly I thought she was incredibly rude and obnoxious... but this is too much. She doesn't speak for all of feminists; she's just one of the vocal women who totally went overboard.

But in no way does that mean she deserves to have her information scattered all over the internet, to feel unsafe and threatened on a constant everyday basis. Nor does it mean these awful people should be able to speak to her that way. Ugh. I feel bad for her.

I agree... She was really rude, I admit. I felt like punching her when I first saw the video, but there's a limit of how much hate you hate someone. And to have her privacy invaded? That's crossing the line between just making fun of her online and just being a creepy stalker.

 

[Chuman]

it's as if not a single person seems to understand hate isn't one-sided. she's being an obnoxious bitch, yes, but by sending her death threats, insults and such, the flames are only being fanned.

and i'm not sure how canada's law system work, but isn't pulling a fire alarm like that illegal?

 

[Deleted member 36435]

When you put yourself in the public eye you open yourself up to these kinds of things. Your tumblr, twitter, etc are definitely not an exception, and if you plan to run your mouth and behave unacceptably in public (and presumably the internet in something like this) you should ensure any information you don't want getting out is locked tight. I have no sympathy for her, of course I don't agree with any death threats or other threats but she does nothing to deserve my sympathy.