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Nico_C-137

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I'm pretty confused about concepts of the Unchained, and would be appreciative toward anyone who can help me better understand them.

1. If a world hasn't fully awakened, does it create a projection of itself in the realm of sleep, implying that a dream version would exist in the Unchained, alongside an original version that was asleep outside the Unchained? Like, when Sora fell asleep, was his original body comatose on one plane of existence, while his consciousness traveled to the realm of sleep?

2. Does only the world itself dream (fabricating all the people), or are the people of that world also dreaming?

3. If someone wasn't in their world, when it was taken over by darkness, the dream version of the world fills in the gaps, by creating replicas of them. For instance, Jiminy Cricket was walking around in waking life, while a dream replica of himself had been created in the Unchained. (A.) Does this make them two separate entities? Like, could original Jiminy fall asleep, enter the Unchained, and meet his dream replica? (B.) Is there a difference between the dream version of Jiminy, since he's a product of the world's dream, and Sora's own projection of himself in the Unchained? Is Sora his original self, while Jiminy is a replica? And, does this imply that, while Sora is able to wake back up, the dream version of Jiminy would actually disappear, should his sleeping world be awakened?
 
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Elfdemon

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1. If a world hasn't fully awakened, does it create a projection of itself in the realm of sleep, implying that a dream version would exist in the Unchained, alongside an original version that was asleep outside the Unchained? Like, when Sora fell asleep, was his original body comatose on one plane of existence, while his consciousness traveled to the realm of sleep?

All the "realm of sleep" is, is dreams. Worlds can dream and people can dream. When a world falls to darkness/goes to the Realm of Darkness, they also fall asleep and they dream. And in the KH universe, there are ways to enter dreams, whether it be the dreams of people or the dreams of worlds. And that is what we call the "realm of sleep." So, when a world falls to darkness and falls asleep and dreams, it is possible to enter that dream. Worlds dream about their past selves. They dream about what they were like in the past with how they looked in the past and full of people from the past who used to live there and past versions of people who currently live there.

The worlds we go to in Dream Drop Distance are dreams of worlds that were freed from darkness, but were not freed from their sleep. Due to the Door to Darkness being sealed, Ansem, Seeker of Darkness' artificial Kingdom Hearts was broken apart and the hearts of the worlds returned to them, recompleted the worlds back to the Realm of Light and the Realm Between. However, despite being freed from the Realm of Darkness, some of these worlds were not freed from their sleep. So, they still dreamed. So, to answer your question, no, the worlds we go to in Dream Drop Distance that were freed from darkness but are still asleep don't create projections of themselves in the realm of sleep. I wouldn't word it that way. They aren't creating projections into a real physical realm or anything like that. They are, however, still dreaming due to still being asleep, and we can enter their dreams. Which is what Sora does in DDD. And while Sora is in the worlds' dreams, he is dreaming about the dream worlds he is currently traveling to, and Riku is in Sora's dreams about those worlds.

So no, Sora was not in multiple planes of existence at once. Throughout most of the game, his physical body is within the worlds' dreams. And Riku's physical body is within Sora's dreams.

Yen Sid sent Sora and Riku back in time to Destiny Islands before it fell to darkness, so that they could sort of "ride" Destiny Islands into darkness, therefore ride it into sleep. Once they rode it into sleep and fell asleep, they unknowingly opened the first Sleeping Keyhole and were transported to the next Sleeping World/the first Sleeping World from the present-day that they need to save.

When this happened, Riku unknowingly dove into Sora's dreams and became a Spirit Dream Eater to protect him from Nightmares. So, throughout the game, Sora is in the dreams of the worlds that fell to darkness, but didn't wake from their sleep, and Riku is in Sora's dreams.

Things change when they get to The World That Never Was though. The World That Never Was is not a Sleeping World. It's a real world in the Realm Between. There's a cutscene where Yen Sid says that Sora and Riku will eventually end up out of the Sleeping Worlds and into a world that's in the Realm Between. That world was The World That Never Was. It's not a Sleeping World, but when Riku arrived there, he was still in the realm of sleep since he was still in Sora's dreams and has been the whole journey. After Riku defeats Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, he's brought back to the real world and out of the realm of sleep. When Sora arrived at The World That Never Was, he was in the real world and out of the dream. But, Young Xehanort dragged Sora back into the realm of sleep, but this time, he dragged Sora into Sora's own dreams instead of the world's dreams. Then, Xigbar dragged Sora into a second sleep. So, Sora's sleeping body was in Sora's own dreams which is why Riku saw it before he fought Anti Black Coat. His physical body was in his own dreams and was sleeping there. And he was dreaming. Anyways, after Young Xehanort successfully puts Sora into a weird sleep coma by dragging him further and further into dreams, he brings him back to the real world and places him on one of the Organization XIII thrones.

Riku still had his Dream Eaters and his Dream Eater powers in the real world of The World That Never Was because Sora was still asleep. He still had a weird Dream Eater connection to him.

2. Does only the world itself dream (fabricating all the people), or are the people of that world also dreaming?

When a world falls to darkness and goes to the Realm of Darkness and falls asleep, some residents end up turning into Heartless, some residents get cast out to the Ocean Between, some residents get sent to Traverse Town through Corridors of Darkness, but the majority of the residents fall asleep with the world. They are sort of put in their own plane of existence where they sleep. They aren't in the real world in the Realm of Darkness and they aren't in the world's dream, because everything in the world's dream is just fabricated. Instead, they sleep somewhere in the world but they can't be seen and can't interact with the physical world. Like in their own plane of existence. And from that plane of existence, they return to the real world once the world is restored.

3. If someone wasn't in their world, when it was taken over by darkness, the dream version of the world fills in the gaps, by creating replicas of them. For instance, Jiminy Cricket was walking around in waking life, while a dream replica of himself had been created in the Unchained. (A.) Does this make them two separate entities? Like, could original Jiminy fall asleep, enter the Unchained, and meet his dream replica? (B.) Is there a difference between the dream version of Jiminy, since he's a product of the world's dream, and Sora's own projection of himself in the Unchained? Is Sora his original self, while Jiminy is a replica? And, does this imply that, while Sora is able to wake back up, the dream version of Jiminy would actually disappear, should his sleeping world be awakened?

Yes, if Jiminy were to enter Prankster's Paradise's dream with Sora, he would've also seen his fabricated past self there. And yes, there is a difference between the fabricated versions of people and Sora. Sora physically enters dreams with his physical body. Same with Riku. The fabricated versions of people that Sora and Riku see are just fabrications of the dreams. They aren't real and they aren't physical. So, yes, they would disappear once the world wakes up. Dreams disappear when you wake up. Because they aren't real.
 

2 quid is good

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Hey, welcome to the forums, but I think you'd get more of a response if you posted this in the UX section XD
 

Nico_C-137

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All the "realm of sleep" is, is dreams. Worlds can dream and people can dream. When a world falls to darkness/goes to the Realm of Darkness, they also fall asleep and they dream. And in the KH universe, there are ways to enter dreams, whether it be the dreams of people or the dreams of worlds. And that is what we call the "realm of sleep." So, when a world falls to darkness and falls asleep and dreams, it is possible to enter that dream. Worlds dream about their past selves. They dream about what they were like in the past with how they looked in the past and full of people from the past who used to live there and past versions of people who currently live there.

The worlds we go to in Dream Drop Distance are dreams of worlds that were freed from darkness, but were not freed from their sleep. Due to the Door to Darkness being sealed, Ansem, Seeker of Darkness' artificial Kingdom Hearts was broken apart and the hearts of the worlds returned to them, recompleted the worlds back to the Realm of Light and the Realm Between. However, despite being freed from the Realm of Darkness, some of these worlds were not freed from their sleep. So, they still dreamed. So, to answer your question, no, the worlds we go to in Dream Drop Distance that were freed from darkness but are still asleep don't create projections of themselves in the realm of sleep. I wouldn't word it that way. They aren't creating projections into a real physical realm or anything like that. They are, however, still dreaming due to still being asleep, and we can enter their dreams. Which is what Sora does in DDD. And while Sora is in the worlds' dreams, he is dreaming about the dream worlds he is currently traveling to, and Riku is in Sora's dreams about those worlds.

So no, Sora was not in multiple planes of existence at once. Throughout most of the game, his physical body is within the worlds' dreams. And Riku's physical body is within Sora's dreams.

Yen Sid sent Sora and Riku back in time to Destiny Islands before it fell to darkness, so that they could sort of "ride" Destiny Islands into darkness, therefore ride it into sleep. Once they rode it into sleep and fell asleep, they unknowingly opened the first Sleeping Keyhole and were transported to the next Sleeping World/the first Sleeping World from the present-day that they need to save.

When this happened, Riku unknowingly dove into Sora's dreams and became a Spirit Dream Eater to protect him from Nightmares. So, throughout the game, Sora is in the dreams of the worlds that fell to darkness, but didn't wake from their sleep, and Riku is in Sora's dreams.

Things change when they get to The World That Never Was though. The World That Never Was is not a Sleeping World. It's a real world in the Realm Between. There's a cutscene where Yen Sid says that Sora and Riku will eventually end up out of the Sleeping Worlds and into a world that's in the Realm Between. That world was The World That Never Was. It's not a Sleeping World, but when Riku arrived there, he was still in the realm of sleep since he was still in Sora's dreams and has been the whole journey. After Riku defeats Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, he's brought back to the real world and out of the realm of sleep. When Sora arrived at The World That Never Was, he was in the real world and out of the dream. But, Young Xehanort dragged Sora back into the realm of sleep, but this time, he dragged Sora into Sora's own dreams instead of the world's dreams. Then, Xigbar dragged Sora into a second sleep. So, Sora's sleeping body was in Sora's own dreams which is why Riku saw it before he fought Anti Black Coat. His physical body was in his own dreams and was sleeping there. And he was dreaming. Anyways, after Young Xehanort successfully puts Sora into a weird sleep coma by dragging him further and further into dreams, he brings him back to the real world and places him on one of the Organization XIII thrones.

Riku still had his Dream Eaters and his Dream Eater powers in the real world of The World That Never Was because Sora was still asleep. He still had a weird Dream Eater connection to him.



When a world falls to darkness and goes to the Realm of Darkness and falls asleep, some residents end up turning into Heartless, some residents get cast out to the Ocean Between, some residents get sent to Traverse Town through Corridors of Darkness, but the majority of the residents fall asleep with the world. They are sort of put in their own plane of existence where they sleep. They aren't in the real world in the Realm of Darkness and they aren't in the world's dream, because everything in the world's dream is just fabricated. Instead, they sleep somewhere in the world but they can't be seen and can't interact with the physical world. Like in their own plane of existence. And from that plane of existence, they return to the real world once the world is restored.



Yes, if Jiminy were to enter Prankster's Paradise's dream with Sora, he would've also seen his fabricated past self there. And yes, there is a difference between the fabricated versions of people and Sora. Sora physically enters dreams with his physical body. Same with Riku. The fabricated versions of people that Sora and Riku see are just fabrications of the dreams. They aren't real and they aren't physical. So, yes, they would disappear once the world wakes up. Dreams disappear when you wake up. Because they aren't real.
Thank you for your reply! It's all very convoluted, but that does help me to understand a few more aspects.
 

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As much as I enjoy reading explanations like these, the execution of dreams/time-travel couldn't portray the same kind of existentialism as CoM and KH2 did with memories and Nobodies. Neither did BBS go into depth with emotions and the Unversed. It's plot-based instead of theme-based. KH2 was able to show what it felt like for Roxas to realize his life was just a datascape and that his being was not meant to be. But DDD has the Xehanorts toy around with Sora, if that's the closest thing to a nightmare as we got, but pretty sure most of us got lost on the plot and exposition instead. My head hurts already lol
 

Nico_C-137

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As much as I enjoy reading explanations like these, the execution of dreams/time-travel couldn't portray the same kind of existentialism as CoM and KH2 did with memories and Nobodies. Neither did BBS go into depth with emotions and the Unversed. It's plot-based instead of theme-based. KH2 was able to show what it felt like for Roxas to realize his life was just a datascape and that his being was not meant to be. But DDD has the Xehanorts toy around with Sora, if that's the closest thing to a nightmare as we got, but pretty sure most of us got lost on the plot and exposition instead. My head hurts already lol
I know what ya mean, and like how you expressed the lack of existentialism in those games. It's one of my favorite aspects of the series; particularly in KH2. That game provoked such bittersweet feelings. Like, when you can't feel perfectly carefree, because you know that, under the surface, something isn't quite right.
 
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