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Pocahontas In Future KH Games?



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Antifa Lockhart

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Wow, I'd love to have some first nations people in here to tell you why this is totally bizarre to discuss. I don't mean "my grandma was a cherokee princess11!1" white people, either.

I guess my whole thing is that if you're so desperate to see a version of this character but to remove the movie's influences, but also still include a fictitious narrative about them...like, what's the point then?

And I don't care if you are trying to remove the problematic aspects of the film, including a story that takes place outside of the movie would still be making up a story where this world will be overrun by invaders (Heartless or whatever monsters are in the game) and saved by an outsider who is white-presenting, even if Japanese characters are still supposed to be considered Japanese.
 

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I didn't know about the controversy surrounding Maui before this thread. I really need to keep up with the times. When it comes to Pocahontas, I still think the best they could do is a summon. Summon her and she does some really cool wind base attack. I think that is the safest option if they ever plan on using the character. Especially since summons are now all glowy and mystic. Her animation can have her hair constantly blowing for that Aero effect.
 

Clue.Less

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I didn't know about the controversy surrounding Maui before this thread. I really need to keep up with the times. When it comes to Pocahontas, I still think the best they could do is a summon. Summon her and she does some really cool wind base attack. I think that is the safest option if they ever plan on using the character. Especially since summons are now all glowy and mystic. Her animation can have her hair constantly blowing for that Aero effect.
I'd rather have Flit as a summon, especially if we're talking wind magic. Flit's the only cameo from that movie that I could get behind. Maybe. But still. Symbolically having the "spirit" of Pocahontas at Sora's side would still be all kinds of wrong... (unless she's a kid as a summon? Maybe? The narrative for a kid Pocahontas summon would have worked better in KH1)...

I find it interesting to try and think of options to make up for that movie somehow, but really, I'm happy with "no Pocahontas in KH"...
 
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Tartarus

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And I don't care if you are trying to remove the problematic aspects of the film, including a story that takes place outside of the movie would still be making up a story where this world will be overrun by invaders (Heartless or whatever monsters are in the game) and saved by an outsider who is white-presenting, even if Japanese characters are still supposed to be considered Japanese.
This implies the film also presents a story of a white savior, and that was not the case at all if that's what you're suggesting... I wasn't sure, so I put the if there. Pocahontas is the hero of her own film, even if the story is not accurate to her actual biography. The only sin that this film commits is being inaccurate to a real person's life story, which incidentally is also the case for any and every film in Hollywood about a real person. I was pissed about how straight America portrayed Freddie Mercury's relationships in Bohemian Rhapsody, that doesn't mean the film is going to be or even should be banned a hundred years from now. Disney had wanted to tell a Romeo & Juliet style story after the success of B&tB's love story and having used already used Shakespeare as inspiration for TLK to widespread acclaim, it's not like their goal was to subsume Native American culture for the sake of greed as some have suggested. lol I'm sorry, that assertion is just histrionic and nuts to me. I'd actually say that's more true of what PIXAR did with Coco, when they practically attempted to copyright the Dia de Los Muertos holiday when they first began working on that film. If Disney had advertised Pocahontas (then or now) as true history or an education film to be shown in classrooms, then, yeah, maybe you'd have a leg to stand on and be angry about. But they didn't because it's a -movie- made for -entertainment- purposes only. No, it doesn't show the slaughter of Native Americans, but it does present the white settlers as the enemy encroaching on territory that didn't belong to them, it does present Pocahontas and her people as in the right, the themes and music of the film do highlight trying to understand rather than immediately demonize someone not like you and what could've been if that had only happened, etc. etc. to the audience, who should be able to learn the truth about what happened next on their own. That's partly why the ending of the film has a tragic tone, because the audience knows what ultimately will happen to Native Americans.

Personally, I'd be fine with them re-enacting the film exactly as it is in KH, the reaction from people here be darned. (Actually, the reaction here would be icing really, I can't pretend. lol) It's not like Square has been afraid to piss off fans by refusing to give into their demands. They've been doing that for years and, imo, there is nothing majorly wrong with this film? You can always find somebody angry online about something or other, that doesn't mean the world at large has to indulge them. All else I could say is simply don't buy the game if you feel that strongly about it? *shrug* That's a choice everyone makes for themselves in regards to their consumer habits; there are many things I've refused to purchase for political reasons, so it's your prerogative. But I'll continue hoping it appears in one of the next few KH games. It would've fit in 3 perfectly, considering the Keyblade War would have related to the story, which is a shame. I loved FMF's idea back on the first page about it being literally a "new" world that's just been created, pure of Heartless and so on. That was really neat. And of course I'd love for Pocahontas to be a PoH, much more than I would Merida, for example, ugh.
 
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kirabook

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I must say, the major differences between Pocahontas/Song of the South and other Disney controversies such as their depiction of Maui is:

Pocahontas was a really breathing girl who suffered a lot of injustices and suffered a very cruel fate. There was no happy ending or peace for her. She was mistreated by colonizers up until the very end.

Song of the South was literally trying to convince white and black people at the time that everything was totally chill and black people LOVE being subservient and slaves. We need a massa to keep us in line and happy cause we can't take care of ourselves no no.

Misrepresenting Native Americans and Black has some real world consequences. It's true, they don't really teach what happened to Pocahontas in school. All people know is the Disney movie. They think it was a "Let's eat together and call it Thanksgiving!" It's all part of the same myth while Native Americans are still mistreated, land stolen, no funding, continued police brutality, etc etc.

Song of the South doesn't have much of an effect today, especially since Disney is too ashamed to show it to the public these days. But back then? Half of this nation was convinced and some still are convinced that black people are better off as slaves because without being told what to do, we just fall into chaos and mayhem. Isn't it so much better if we are cradled from birth to grave in a cotton field somewhere?

Compare those issues to Maui, who the Polynesian people were understandably upset that Disney changed (for dumb reasons) to fit their story narrative. They made him more of a creature of a man when he's supposed to be handsome and good looking. Why do that? They changed his story into one of abandonment when if I can recall correctly, he was not abandoned/unwanted whatsoever, why change that?

But, to the best of my knowledge, Maui was not a real person. Even with these dumb story changes, they in no way tried to paint over historical facts with a nice rosy brush to make it look better. If someone saw Moana today, they would still walk away from the story knowing Maui was a powerful hero in their culture even if he was sorta kinda a trickster.

You don't walk away from Pocahontas knowing she was actually just a girl and was raped and had an untimely death.
You don't walk away from Song of the South understanding that actually no, black people aren't satisfied with living on the plantation and being told what to do, or that it's a happy and good time.

The most I can imagine for Pocahontas is Chicken Little treatment with summons of her animal companions and maybe a cameo of her in the colors of the wind and that's it.
 

Face My Fears

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This implies the film also presents a story of a white savior, and that was not the case at all if that's what you're suggesting... I wasn't sure, so I put the if there. Pocahontas is the hero of her own film, even if the story is not accurate to her actual biography. The only sin that this film commits is being inaccurate to a real person's life story, which incidentally is also the case for any and every film in Hollywood about a real person. I was pissed about how straight America portrayed Freddie Mercury's relationships in Bohemian Rhapsody, that doesn't mean the film is going to be or even should be banned a hundred years from now. Disney had wanted to tell a Romeo & Juliet style story after the success of B&tB's love story and having used already used Shakespeare as inspiration for TLK to widespread acclaim, it's not like their goal was to subsume Native American culture for the sake of greed as some have suggested. lol I'm sorry, that assertion is just histrionic and nuts to me. I'd actually say that's more true of what PIXAR did with Coco, when they practically attempted to copyright the Dia de Los Muertos holiday when they first began working on that film. If Disney had advertised Pocahontas (then or now) as true history or an education film to be shown in classrooms, then, yeah, maybe you'd have a leg to stand on and be angry about. But they didn't because it's a -movie- made for -entertainment- purposes only. No, it doesn't show the slaughter of Native Americans, but it does present the white settlers as the enemy encroaching on territory that didn't belong to them, it does present Pocahontas and her people as in the right, the themes and music of the film do highlight trying to understand rather than immediately demonize someone not like you and what could've been if that had only happened, etc. etc. to the audience, who should be able to learn the truth about what happened next on their own. That's partly why the ending of the film has a tragic tone, because the audience knows what ultimately will happen to Native Americans.

Personally, I'd be fine with them re-enacting the film exactly as it is in KH, the reaction from people here be darned. (Actually, the reaction here would be icing really, I can't pretend. lol) It's not like Square has been afraid to piss off fans by refusing to give into their demands. They've been doing that for years and, imo, there is nothing majorly wrong with this film? You can always find somebody angry online about something or other, that doesn't mean the world at large has to indulge them. All else I could say is simply don't buy the game if you feel that strongly about it? *shrug* That's a choice everyone makes for themselves in regards to their consumer habits; there are many things I've refused to purchase for political reasons, so it's your prerogative. But I'll continue hoping it appears in one of the next few KH games. It would've fit in 3 perfectly, considering the Keyblade War would have related to the story, which is a shame. I loved FMF's idea back on the first page about it being literally a "new" world that's just been created, pure of Heartless and so on. That was really neat. And of course I'd love for Pocahontas to be a PoH, much more than I would Merida, for example, ugh.
EXACTLY! Even for a film in 1995, Disney went and did research and consulted Native Americans about the film. They even cast them in roles for the film, when they could have easily just had some white person do the voicework. Clearly Disney's intent was NOT to offend. Which is why I think the film shouldn't be so scrutinized because the context of its release needs to be understood. It was 1995, not 2020. Would Disney even think to release that version of Pocahontas in 2020, hell no. Why? Because they learned from their mistake and are doing better. If people are so upset and offended by Disney's Pocahontas, then don't support any other Disney franchise or go to their parks or play KH. When people say that there was a "white saviour" in the film, but Pocahontas saves the white guy and brings about peace between the two sides.

I think that Disney shouldn't be afraid to use the Pocahontas character (and they clearly aren't given Ralph Breaks The Internet), however they should definitely learn from their mistakes and be more sensitive to the climate today because they are more aware. If people are willing to excuse Disney for Pocahontas' release, then they should be OK with Pocahontas being used in a more positive, productive way in future projects (like KH).

The reason I personally would not want the film's plot to be the basis of the world is simply because 1) I rather explore Pocahontas' character/world and not be chained down to some romantic interest and 2) I think it's one of the few worlds where I'd be fine with a giant heartless boss fight over a Disney boss. Also, I think doing the film's plot today - IE a second time after being forgiven the first time, would be pretty offensive since they are well aware of how much the alterations hurt some people. Which is why I think it'd be fine to show Pocahontas' life before the colonists arrived and show her as a brave, strong woman that fought for her people when the heartless/insert villain shows up.
 

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I also want to add, if the film Pocahontas had been named anything else, if the main character had been anyone else like some made up girl with a made up tribe and her two love interests weren't John Smith, it would have been way less crappy than it currently is.

I too loved Pocahontas and I still do. It's just a shamed that they used a real person who suffered a lot to create this story. As you can see, they really try not to do that anymore.

They DID make a mistake, so now, they shouldn't pretend like they didn't and need to be very responsible with how they use that
"franchise" in the future, which they are still not doing from the looks of it.
 

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Can we just close the thread already? I'm surprised it lasted this long.
 

Tartarus

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The reason I personally would not want the film's plot to be the basis of the world is simply because 1) I rather explore Pocahontas' character/world and not be chained down to some romantic interest and 2) I think it's one of the few worlds where I'd be fine with a giant heartless boss fight over a Disney boss. Also, I think doing the film's plot today - IE a second time after being forgiven the first time, would be pretty offensive since they are well aware of how much the alterations hurt some people. Which is why I think it'd be fine to show Pocahontas' life before the colonists arrived and show her as a brave, strong woman that fought for her people when the heartless/insert villain shows up.
I would be fine with that simply because the romance was always weak for me and I always thought John Smith was a bland character.
 

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Because one should be shown the least amount of respect possible and made into a mockery while the other should be highly respected and given the true recognition it deserves.

We get taught about WWII and Hitler (mostly) without his history being sanitized (though with the state of the world right now, we have certain right-wing groups who wish to depict Hitler in a positive light which is disgusting as well), whereas Pocahontas' history is rarely taught in American history and when you generally ask people about it, they will usually mention the Disney film as their first exposure to Pocahontas.

We aren't comparing apples to apples here.
Ah, that takes me back to middle school, and my teacher harping on the fact that the Disney movie wasn't an accurate depiction of the source material. It's funny how much they kept repeatedly teaching me the same things (the boston massacre, pochahontas, Sacagawea, etc.) and never moving past those specific topics. Public schools am I right?
 

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Ah, that takes me back to middle school, and my teacher harping on the fact that the Disney movie wasn't an accurate depiction of the source material. It's funny how much they kept repeatedly teaching me the same things (the boston massacre, pochahontas, Sacagawea, etc.) and never moving past those specific topics. Public schools am I right?
Either you got a really good public school education if you had a good school district or you got a mediocre one and the subject material varies across the board, or you went to private school with a mixed bag of results.
 

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Either you got a really good public school education if you had a good school district or you got a mediocre one and the subject material varies across the board, or you went to private school with a mixed bag of results.
No, it was pretty lackluster if memory serves. I felt cheated half the time because most of it just seemed to repeat itself on the same basic stuff as mentioned above. While other schools were likely having more engaging discussions like involving prehistory and other engaging subjects to those within the 1-5 grade range, I learned about Columbus and his contributions to society, and up to the Lewis and Clark expedition, never anything before or after those specific events in world history.
 

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I went to public schools in a red state, the same state that makes the most textbooks and has the shadiest Board of Education. History classes were mostly taught by coaches and individuals with not focus on teaching. It was a mess, the only reason I didn't buy any of it was because of the internet.

Hint:

 
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