party members (Fun discussion)

[vaderskywalker]

Just going to say it, I don't know what to call this one, anyway about party members in KH4, I think it would be a good idea to give us a choice on whether we want party members or not, like at the beginning of the game you're given a choice whether you want party members like KH1, KH2 and KH3 or to go solo, like BBS, Recoded, and COM,I feel like this would be a good option, because some of us like going solo in games, what are your thoughts?

 

[Elysium]

I suppose choice is preferrable in any situation. For myself, I like when there are party members because the games feel sterile without the noise, dialogue, etc. happening in the background. At least that's one of the things I enjoyed least about BbS. 3D at least gives you Dream Eaters that make pet-like noises, but that one would've been better, too, if Donald & Goofy were with both Sora and Riku. You could've explained them being in two places at once away as dream-logic, much like how D&G would disappear between rooms and become cards in Chain of Memories. But if necessary, they could've had Donald and Meow Wow with Sora while Riku had Goofy and Komory Bat, that way Dream Eaters are still a part of the game, too, since I do enjoy them.

I do wish there was a choice on how many party members there are at once. I'd prefer if it was two at one time--or you could only go as high as 3 party members at once--and that you had more options for party members. I always thought it would be interesting if SRK + D&G rode around together and then you could choose two among Riku, Kairi, Donald, Goofy, and the world-specific party members per world, for example. It means every playthrough or worldvisit, you can have a different combo of characters. In KH3, they could've made all the Lights available as party members to choose among as you go through the game.

 

[vaderskywalker]

I suppose choice is preferrable in any situation. For myself, I like when there are party members because the games feel sterile without the noise, dialogue, etc. happening in the background. At least that's one of the things I enjoyed least about BbS. 3D at least gives you Dream Eaters that make pet-like noises, but that one would've been better, too, if Donald & Goofy were with both Sora and Riku. You could've explained them being in two places at once away as dream-logic, much like how D&G would disappear between rooms and become cards in Chain of Memories. But if necessary, they could've had Donald and Meow Wow with Sora while Riku had Goofy and Komory Bat, that way Dream Eaters are still a part of the game, too, since I do enjoy them.

I do wish there was a choice on how many party members there are at once. I'd prefer if it was two at one time--or you could only go as high as 3 party members at once--and that you had more options for party members. I always thought it would be interesting if SRK + D&G rode around together and then you could choose two among Riku, Kairi, Donald, Goofy, and the world-specific party members per world, for example. It means every playthrough or worldvisit, you can have a different combo of characters. In KH3, they could've made all the Lights available as party members to choose among as you go through the game.

For me, I like going solo in kingdom hearts, nothing wrong with party members, but there are times when I would like to go back and play, let's say, KH1 solo from begging to end, it's a pipe dream I know, but I just want to see Sora go through an entire adventure without any help, see him solve problems on his own, because he always has Donald and Goofy holding his hand, and I think that holds him back, take Riku for example, he got so far on his own, became a master on his own, now imagine what Sora's character development could look like if he didn't have party members, he just shows up in a world on his own and starts investigating, and yes I know he wasn't too bright with the events of DDD, and his friends are his power, and that's his character, but I just feel like he could do so much better on his own.

 

[cakito123]

I think having the option is always nice and I agree with the feeling.
I playthroughed KHII the other day and having to choose only 2 party members every time adds a layer of strategy to the game because { you need to make a choice }. It makes you remember they exist because you get curious about their abilities and open the menu to see more.

In KH3 I feel that the npcs that were not Donald and goofy were more of a distraction than anything because I didn't have to bother with them much, only press triangle to activate the special whenever possible... There was no reason for me to change much in their abilities or even read them besides cheer curiosity.
In other words I think most party members in KHIII were toys that played by itself.

 

[TruestSyn]

I suppose choice is preferrable in any situation. For myself, I like when there are party members because the games feel sterile without the noise, dialogue, etc. happening in the background. At least that's one of the things I enjoyed least about BbS. 3D at least gives you Dream Eaters that make pet-like noises, but that one would've been better, too, if Donald & Goofy were with both Sora and Riku. You could've explained them being in two places at once away as dream-logic, much like how D&G would disappear between rooms and become cards in Chain of Memories. But if necessary, they could've had Donald and Meow Wow with Sora while Riku had Goofy and Komory Bat, that way Dream Eaters are still a part of the game, too, since I do enjoy them.

I do wish there was a choice on how many party members there are at once. I'd prefer if it was two at one time--or you could only go as high as 3 party members at once--and that you had more options for party members. I always thought it would be interesting if SRK + D&G rode around together and then you could choose two among Riku, Kairi, Donald, Goofy, and the world-specific party members per world, for example. It means every playthrough or worldvisit, you can have a different combo of characters. In KH3, they could've made all the Lights available as party members to choose among as you go through the game.

Ooh, have it be either like FFXIII-2 where you had Serah, Noel, and a third monster of your choice would be pretty cool. I think they had plenty of additional characters in most of 3D, Traverse Town could have given you Neku, Shiki, Beat and Ryme, then, Phoebas and Quasimodo for Le Cite du Cloche, The Grid could give you Sam and Qora, Country of Musketeers have Donald, Goofy, and or Mickey, so the only ones you wouldn't really have any party in would be Symphony of Sorcery, Prankster's Paradise, and The World That Never Was.

Personally for KH 4 I'd prefer them to stick with what we get. I like having party members and guest party members. The only thing I'd like to change is to give the guests weapon choices. We have NEVER been able to give these characters better weapons and I think it would be cool, especially if they add post world stuff to give reason to go back. KH2 we had a second visit to every world. After beating Shan Yu, Mulan could have had his sword as a new equipable weapon!

 

[vaderskywalker]

Well, when I go back and play KH2 and KH3, I'm always turning everyone's abilities off, so I can at least get the illusion that I'm playing solo, while my party members are just standing.

 

[Chie]

I think Nomura should simply direct the game based on what would be fitting to the work, rather than asking the player "what do you wish i made?"

Considering what KH4 is, it would be fitting to not have "regular" party members for a good stretch of the game, though.

 

[Launchpad]

no way is the bro with the anakin skywalker avatar saying that Donald and Goofy "held Sora back".. it's too good.

 

[vaderskywalker]

no way is the bro with the anakin skywalker avatar saying that Donald and Goofy "held Sora back".. it's too good.

First off, it's not just Anakin, Vader is standing behind him in the picture, hence the name VaderSkywalker,(Ignore the caps please, I wasn't thinking about it when I made my profile), second off, I just think Donald and Goofy have served their purpose, it made sense for the first game, because Sora was a 14-year-old teenager, who likely wouldn't have gotten very far on his own, but now were 11 games in, and it feels like Sora could handle most situations himself, technically we saw this sort of thing in recoded, but he still had contact with Mickey, and we also saw this kind of thing in DDD, but Sora was treated like a moron, and that's part of the reason I believe he wasn't made a master, if he's always going to rely on his friend's then what's the point? He needs to learn to do things on his own, and like I said before, I know his friends are his power, but sometimes you have to do things on your own, and I think Sora should be the same way, and I don't mean making Sora stop making friends, that's his trait, I just mean that Sora needs to grow up at some point, and stop relying on everyone, I think he actually has the same situation as Peter Parker in the comics at this point, because apparently the writers over at Marvel won't let him grow up Ethier, look I just want to see characters grow and evolve, not be regressed for decades, and if your think I mean take away Disney characters all together, that's not what I'm saying at all, keep the Disney characters, but take away party members, that's all i'm saying.

 

[BufferAqua]

I just think Donald and Goofy have served their purpose, it made sense for the first game, because Sora was a 14-year-old teenager, who likely wouldn't have gotten very far on his own, but now were 11 games in, and it feels like Sora could handle most situations himself

It's not really about them "taking care" of Sora as if they're his parents. Donald and Goofy are his friends, plus we need major Disney characters into the game somehow.

but Sora was treated like a moron, and that's part of the reason I believe he wasn't made a master, if he's always going to rely on his friend's then what's the point? He needs to learn to do things on his own, and like I said before, I know his friends are his power, but sometimes you have to do things on your own, and I think Sora should be the same way, and I don't mean making Sora stop making friends, that's his trait, I just mean that Sora needs to grow up at some point, and stop relying on everyone

Sora was treated like a moron in DDD because he was actually a moron lol. Sora isn't known for his intelligence in past and future games, that's true, but DDD Sora is notorious in the fanbase for being a clueless moron.

Also isn't everything you are saying his entire arc in 3? He briefly thought he was nothing without his friends, only for Riku to snap him out of it, and then decided to get Kairi by himself. KH3 has some spotty character development, but I thought that was simply the point. It doesn't seem like he has any immense reliance on Donald and Goofy, they're just his friends and they enjoy going on adventures together.

 

[Chie]

I do think Donald and Goofy are a weird presence by 3 because they aren't really characters by this point. Yet they have some of the most screentime and dialogue because they're the ones who are always with Sora.

 

[BufferAqua]

That's true, they did seem there just to be there. I just don't think Sora has any sort of drastic reliance on them unless you count before and during his breakdown scene.

 

[vaderskywalker]

It's not really about them "taking care" of Sora as if they're his parents. Donald and Goofy are his friends, plus we need major Disney characters into the game somehow.

Sora was treated like a moron in DDD because he was actually a moron lol. Sora isn't known for his intelligence in past and future games, that's true, but DDD Sora is notorious in the fanbase for being a clueless moron.

Also isn't everything you are saying his entire arc in 3? He briefly thought he was nothing without his friends, only for Riku to snap him out of it, and then decided to get Kairi by himself. KH3 has some spotty character development, but I thought that was simply the point. It doesn't seem like he has any immense reliance on Donald and Goofy, they're just his friends and they enjoy going on adventures together.

That's true, Sora's not known for his intelligence, and that's fine, but if there were levels of stupidity, then DDD would be the highest for Sora, in KH1, Sora was actually pretty smart, when Sora found out what Riku was trying to do to Pinocchio, he realized Riku wasn't the same friend he had known on Destiny Islands, he knew at that point that Riku wasn't on his side, and had to be stopped, or at least knock some sense into him, and Sora from KH1 and KH2 were the lowest level of stupidity, COM not so much, everyone says he was smart in this one, but I don't see it, he got angry and wouldn't think things through, in fact when Donald and Goofy suggested thinking ahead, Sora for some reason thought they meant abandoning Namine, as if he had never heard of the phrase before, a smart person would have realized that they were right and listened to them, and I'm not saying cut them out of the game entirely, just for them to have a similar role that they had in recoded, and KH3 had the best Sora so far, he doubted himself, which is a very human thing to do at times, but when he and Riku were the only ones standing, he gave up, that shouldn't have happened, sometimes I like to imagine that it never happened, and this led to the worst use of time travel in the series, yes he was grieving, he had just lost almost everyone important to him, (actually this just gave an idea, I'll post it in another thread), but there were still people and worlds that were still alive to be saved, he and Riku should have stopped Xehanort then grieved, and Aqua was no better, clearly she was suffering from PTSD, she was stunned by how many heartless there were, and she wasn't even seeing heartless, she was seeing multiple copies of herself as Anti-Aqua, and lost her nerve, and everyone else wasn't doing any better Ethier, they should not have had such a hard time with Terranort with how many of them there were, but I digress, nothing in the previous games indicated that Sora would ever give up, maybe that one time he and Riku got stuck in the realm of darkness, but that's only because they were sure they were never going home, and there's this quote that I have memorized ever since I got into a certain franchise, and it goes something like this, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.", Sora may have lost the people who were closest to him, but that's no reason to give up, especially when so many people are counting on him, for the record Sora is my favorite character in this series.

 

[vaderskywalker]

It's not really about them "taking care" of Sora as if they're his parents. Donald and Goofy are his friends, plus we need major Disney characters into the game somehow.

Sorry, I didn't know how to respond to this part of your post until now, anyway they didn't feel like his parents until KH3, but looking back at say Chain of Memories, yeah, I can see it, and it makes sense to a degree, because Goofy at least has a son in regular Disney canon, and Sora in that game feels like a teenager arguing with his parents.

 

[System Shock]

I would definitely agree to Donald & Goofy being made far less “relevant” I guess you could say in KH3? Like they make them feel so small in comparison to the overarching storyline/characters the game now focuses on. With that being the new organization and the pieces of light. I almost feel the same way about Mickey. It’s like he was such a large character shrouded in mystery for the first two games and now he’s just kinda like, I’m here.

I just replayed KH1 recently and I feel like there’s such a large disconnect with the Disney roots from game 1 that made it so special (imo), that KH3 especially does not have. What with the Disney villains, og Disney worlds and characters, etc. I mean I could go on and on about my disdain for the entry of the Pixar worlds into the game series, but I feel like if they spent time of revisiting cult classics like Lion King, Aladdin, Little Mermaid, I feel like it could of elevated the game a lot. That’s not to say that they didn’t close a lot of chapters in those worlds, but I would of loved to see more worlds like it and from that era. Maybe more Peter Pan, Robin Hood, Pocahontas, Beauty & The Beast, etc.

I will say in response to what was said earlier, I love having Donald & Goofy in the party, because it is nice to have the dialogue and to have a team that you’re adventuring with. While they may not get the recognition they deserve later on, I think they’re integral to the story and I don’t know if I’ll enjoy a KH game without them alongside Sora. It would be nice to have the option to customize your party though. Like in Toy Story if you take out Buzz & Woody, or just leave one of them in maybe. Miss that part from the old games.

 

[Face My Fears]

Well Donald and Goofy seem to be regaining relevance with their apparent solo plot line in KH4. I don't have a problem with them always being with Sora, I think their dynamic adds to the game. Their presence actually always made the numbered titles feel like a "main game" since the other games never had consistent party members throughout the game. I will say that if Nomura does change the formula moving forward, at least KH3 gave the Sora/Donald/Goofy trio a really good sendoff.

Anyway, regarding other party members from the DISNEY worlds... and I suppose whoever is with you, I really hope they fix things and make them more necessary. The only purpose any of the DISNEY party members served in KH3 (at least to me) was to see a new limit. It didn't feel like they helped at all with the fights or that they were even there. Compare that to KH1 - especially in Deep Jungle where you get the first option to swap party members - and there is a world of difference. Tarzan can heal, Goofy is offensive, and Donald uses magic (but cannot heal at this point) - what do you do? Party members were even important enough where you would actually use Cure on them over yourself. Post KH1, party members were NEVER relevant beyond limits. You even needed certain party members to do things - like Aladdin in Agrabah.

I would love for them to refocus the party system where they are important again or at least actually helpful (but not OP). They should be more than just extra Potion/Ether slots. I want to think about their fighting style and how best to use them. I don't necessarily want to go back to having to choose party members (because the aesthetic of a full team on the field is amazing), but maybe that can be a feature implemented for Game+ mode or Critical mode? But even outside of a mode where you're trying to increase difficulty, the party members really need to be developed further. I don't even remember seeing how any of the KH3 party members actually fight.

 

[System Shock]

Well Donald and Goofy seem to be regaining relevance with their apparent solo plot line in KH4. I don't have a problem with them always being with Sora, I think their dynamic adds to the game. Their presence actually always made the numbered titles feel like a "main game" since the other games never had consistent party members throughout the game. I will say that if Nomura does change the formula moving forward, at least KH3 gave the Sora/Donald/Goofy trio a really good sendoff.

Anyway, regarding other party members from the DISNEY worlds... and I suppose whoever is with you, I really hope they fix things and make them more necessary. The only purpose any of the DISNEY party members served in KH3 (at least to me) was to see a new limit. It didn't feel like they helped at all with the fights or that they were even there. Compare that to KH1 - especially in Deep Jungle where you get the first option to swap party members - and there is a world of difference. Tarzan can heal, Goofy is offensive, and Donald uses magic (but cannot heal at this point) - what do you do? Party members were even important enough where you would actually use Cure on them over yourself. Post KH1, party members were NEVER relevant beyond limits. You even needed certain party members to do things - like Aladdin in Agrabah.

I would love for them to refocus the party system where they are important again or at least actually helpful (but not OP). They should be more than just extra Potion/Ether slots. I want to think about their fighting style and how best to use them. I don't necessarily want to go back to having to choose party members (because the aesthetic of a full team on the field is amazing), but maybe that can be a feature implemented for Game+ mode or Critical mode? But even outside of a mode where you're trying to increase difficulty, the party members really need to be developed further. I don't even remember seeing how any of the KH3 party members actually fight.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with this. KH1 was for sure where you felt that difference. I loved the fact that you needed certain people in your party to do certain thing, and with characters like Jack Skellington and Ariel, they were treated like casters or second Donald's. Which was crazy huge compared to someone you barely even noticed helping (i.e. any in KH3)

I would still say the allies were still very much relevant in KH2 as well though. Jack having his own unique type of spells like Blazing Fury, Bolts of Sorrow, etc. I thought was just an amazing addition. That's the kind of level I'm looking for in the additional party members- unique skills that are their own but useful, or at least be able to cast simple magic to aid in healing and with elemental damage.

Also, side note- bring back the trinity marks from KH1. I loved those.

 

[Face My Fears]

Yeah, I absolutely agree with this. KH1 was for sure where you felt that difference. I loved the fact that you needed certain people in your party to do certain thing, and with characters like Jack Skellington and Ariel, they were treated like casters or second Donald's. Which was crazy huge compared to someone you barely even noticed helping (i.e. any in KH3)

I would still say the allies were still very much relevant in KH2 as well though. Jack having his own unique type of spells like Blazing Fury, Bolts of Sorrow, etc. I thought was just an amazing addition. That's the kind of level I'm looking for in the additional party members- unique skills that are their own but useful, or at least be able to cast simple magic to aid in healing and with elemental damage.

Also, side note- bring back the trinity marks from KH1. I loved those.

The Trinities added to the party selection because if you went somewhere with Aladdin and found one, then you would have to backtrack and bring Donald and Goofy. The Trinities and party member selection instantly added more replay value to the game after you beat it.

Ariel was even really useful during the fight against Ursula (the first one) because that fight relies on tons of magic use. Peter Pan was also useful against the Phantom heartless because he could cast magic.

I don't think the party members were that useful in KH2. I think it's the way the fighting system changed. KH1 was slower, so more RPG elements were present. KH2 and beyond leaned into the action side of things, so you became less aware or concerned with what your party members were doing and focused on what you were doing. I don't think any ever used Cure in KH2 or future games with the specific intent of healing a party member over yourself. I know that it's not an option anyway, but I don't think anyone ever used Cure when Sora had full health and Donald was dead in KH2 and beyond. I definitely did that in KH1 though, sometimes I would waste all my magic healing them...

... Because I needed the party members to summon someone that I needed. Again, another aspect of KH1 that made the party members vital to the game. I really, really hope that future KH games figure out how to resurrect party member relevance because it feels really good to be able to actually need the DISNEY characters - even if it's for side stuff. It also adds to their world since you can only use them there.

 

[System Shock]

The Trinities added to the party selection because if you went somewhere with Aladdin and found one, then you would have to backtrack and bring Donald and Goofy. The Trinities and party member selection instantly added more replay value to the game after you beat it.

Ariel was even really useful during the fight against Ursula (the first one) because that fight relies on tons of magic use. Peter Pan was also useful against the Phantom heartless because he could cast magic.

I don't think the party members were that useful in KH2. I think it's the way the fighting system changed. KH1 was slower, so more RPG elements were present. KH2 and beyond leaned into the action side of things, so you became less aware or concerned with what your party members were doing and focused on what you were doing. I don't think any ever used Cure in KH2 or future games with the specific intent of healing a party member over yourself. I know that it's not an option anyway, but I don't think anyone ever used Cure when Sora had full health and Donald was dead in KH2 and beyond. I definitely did that in KH1 though, sometimes I would waste all my magic healing them...

... Because I needed the party members to summon someone that I needed. Again, another aspect of KH1 that made the party members vital to the game. I really, really hope that future KH games figure out how to resurrect party member relevance because it feels really good to be able to actually need the DISNEY characters - even if it's for side stuff. It also adds to their world since you can only use them there.

Wow, you make a really good point though. I really did find myself more "party-minded" in KH1 vs. 2. I was always throwing potions, ethers, or cure spells at other party members during battle, because in 1 you really needed them. I feel like in 2 you could pretty much do most fights by yourself. Just form change and it's over (I guess you need them for that lol).

I don't feel like I hardly ever used items or healing on other members in 2, when they could learn abilities like hyper healing, mp rage, etc.

Yeah, take me back. 1 for sure had the best group dynamic. I'm unsure how you could level it out with Sora just getting stronger and stronger in each game though.

 

[Keyblade Knight 1st Class]

The best case scenario is that party members in KHIV are treated like their counterparts in FFVIIR. Fully fleshed out (and customizable to boot) with their own unique skill sets, strengths, weaknesses etc. Being fully playable during battle wouldn't hurt either.