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General ► Our Instinctive Responses...



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NemesisSP

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...as fans in general.

It's something I've seen a lot of in the 15 years since I've been on the internet and it is a topic that gets lots more attention these days... and not entirely in a negative light. Because we all know the story now. Some fans say the worst things, then we all get lumped into it because of generalization and yada yada, I know I'm not the only person to bring it up.

And that being why do fans act nasty to each other or other things like that? But before I say more, since I know this is a sensitive topic but... I'm not talking about toxic fandoms. I'm not talking about all of the other dumb buzzwords you'll see thrown around by "journalists' these days that they apply to the most mild mannered of fans at the same time as the actual fans you could say are toxic. Yeah, like death threats are so out of line. And maybe making assumptions and saying terrible things about the creators without evidence to back it up is kind of a dick move. But for just people who say they don't like something? I don't know, it feels kind of weird to me that you'd call them toxic.

But again, not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about our tendency to immediately lash out or just respond the moment we see something we don't like.

And I'm not saying I'm not guilty of this too. What made me think of this, actually was not five minutes ago when I was looking at some comments on YouTube for Seven Seconds till the End and Listen to the Cries of the Planet and see all the people just being nasty to each other. And my own little pet peeve of the "this > this" meme that you see overrun in YouTube comments these days. And while not outright nasty myself in these particular, I feel now odd about even reacting in that way because it wasn't something of passion that I wanted these people to know what I thought. It was just kind of instinctive. Something I could have completely glossed over, especially since it seems a lot of people do.

I guess the point I am beating around the bush with. Why do we seem to instinctively go at each others throats, even though we now know we're gonna get labeled for it? And we all hate it, yet we keep feeding into the Kotaku's, Twitters and Noah Antwiler's of the world. And I guess I have now run out of things to explain my feelings, considering even now I'm kind of instinctively expecting a bit of a pushback from asking this very topic.

I just am having trouble wrapping my head around it even though I logically understand why. But anyway, do let me know if you have any thoughts on it, I genuinely wouldn't mind discussing it for at least a bit, since I know this is not gonna be a very popular thread.

And if this is a sensitive topic, then feel free to delete it, I'm completely fine with it. I did look at the rules of the forum and it isn't against any of them, but if it's a topic that might cause problems, even though that's not my intention, again, feel free to.
 

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Someone else who knows of Noah Antwiller's misdeeds? You and I have a LOT to talk about Mr. disgraced Disney artist.

A lot of what it is can be chalked up to simple human biology (as is pretty much anything when you're me). As a species descended from the great apes, (a very SOCIAL species, at that) we have a tendency to follow a group and engage in what we deem as "what the popular kids are doing". Some internet stars have very loyal followers who are willing to fight tooth and nail to protect them, even if they're clearly abusing their power (Shane Dawson anyone?) or make some mistakes that are generally easily avoided.
When you'r'e a celebrity/internet star, you get a lot of clout, and with said clout it goes to your head. Shane Dawson realized this and used his influence on nonconsenting minors, as it was what he thought was "funny". In reality, if some average joe attempted to do that, they'd be mercilessly torn apart by the masses for the indecent act. So think of it from a matter of biology, If a very social animal sees something in it's territory that it doesn't like, and other members of the same species are against it, they'll likely rally against it and attempt to get rid of it, simply to follow a sort of "hive mind".
 

Vulpes XIII

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As someone who enjoys stuff regarding psychology this is definitely a interesting topic to me. Although I’m not to sure is we’re talking about arguments in real life or internet, I’m just going to go with the latter.

One thing that seems to play a big part in internet arguments in my opinion is the ability to stay anonymous and there probably a feeling that if someone doesn’t know who you are there are less repercussions and in some cases it makes some people feel more powerful than they do in real life. When I talk about repercussions I mean stuff like no chance of physically fighting, you don’t know the person in real life so you’re not at risk of damaging your real life relationships so they might feel there free to say whatever they want.

Another thing to consider is that people have varying levels of sensitivity and giving it’s the internet you have no idea how sensitive the person at the other end is for example you could be talking to someone who the second you disagree with them even if it’s over the smallest of things will take that as being personally attacked and fight back. However the person they may be talking to is someone who sees disagreement as part of a discussion or debate and honestly in there opinion there just chatting about the topic not attacking the other person and this person might only see themselves being attacked the moment someone starts verbally abusing them and decides to then defend themselves.Giving the sensitivity of both people being different it will most likely start arguments.

However it doesn’t technically have to result in a argument as both people have the option to walk away and ignore it or try to camly continue the discussion or try to diffuse it. I believe a person ” flight or fight” instinct will pretty much determine the result of the situation, however it is possible that the internet might alter this instinct as someone in real life who would normally choose flight reaction might choose fight reaction instead due to perhaps thinking the ability to stay anonymous gives them some power they don’t normally have.

Another situation that could cause arguments could be that one person in real life has a bad day and it would be problematic if they try to take their anger out on family,friends,co-workers etc. The person then might decided to take there anger out on a random person online they might not even care about the subject their meant to be discussing all they want to do is lash out at someone, however this could result in the person at the other end arguing back.

The final situation that comes to mind is unfortunately that some people just take enjoyment and find it fun to go out of their way to belittle, anger or upset people, the more people they make miserable the more fun they have.

There is definitely a lot more situations than these 3 that can cause arguments and not everyone in the world is going to fit into these 3 categories I mentioned. Also this is just a theory, whether I am right or not is completely debatable.
 

NemesisSP

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Oh yes, I know Noah Antwiler, for a while I was a fan of The Spoony Experiment, even if I hated his reviews of the Final Fantasy games, since they were my first major exposure to Square and something I grew up with it. But I was in my early twenties and just thought he had a unique style and some genuine talent. It's just too bad he went off the deep. I think it should have been obvious he was gonna end up being one of those fan haters I mentioned when he flat out sad to people who like Final Fantasy XIII that they were "lying to themselves" among other tasteless jokes at fan expense. But eh, I think a discussion on fallen youtube "celebrities" could be its own discussion. ;)

I do agree with the idea of anonymity, it really does allow for people to just say the nastiest things with no regard to consequences. They seem to not realize that there is some really big consequences now forming because of such behavior.

Then we have doxing, cancelling and all those other terrible and I just kind of wonder about how far one can go with that excuse of anonymity and not take responsibility for it. Especially when certain behaviors really have and continue to ruin peoples lives. Plus, since 'toxic fans" are now a big buzzword, it's basically put a collective target on us all. Even though we'll ignore the fact that these people do the exact same thing, only with bigger repercussions since they have a platform.

I wonder if there's ever gonna be an end to it. It's a worrisome thought about just how far instinctive responses can go and maybe even turn into calculated ones.
 

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Oh yes, I know Noah Antwiler, for a while I was a fan of The Spoony Experiment, even if I hated his reviews of the Final Fantasy games, since they were my first major exposure to Square and something I grew up with it. But I was in my early twenties and just thought he had a unique style and some genuine talent. It's just too bad he went off the deep. I think it should have been obvious he was gonna end up being one of those fan haters I mentioned when he flat out sad to people who like Final Fantasy XIII that they were "lying to themselves" among other tasteless jokes at fan expense. But eh, I think a discussion on fallen youtube "celebrities" could be its own discussion. ;)

I do agree with the idea of anonymity, it really does allow for people to just say the nastiest things with no regard to consequences. They seem to not realize that there is some really big consequences now forming because of such behavior.

Then we have doxing, cancelling and all those other terrible and I just kind of wonder about how far one can go with that excuse of anonymity and not take responsibility for it. Especially when certain behaviors really have and continue to ruin peoples lives. Plus, since 'toxic fans" are now a big buzzword, it's basically put a collective target on us all. Even though we'll ignore the fact that these people do the exact same thing, only with bigger repercussions since they have a platform.

I wonder if there's ever gonna be an end to it. It's a worrisome thought about just how far instinctive responses can go and maybe even turn into calculated ones.ures of habit
But the thing is Nemesis, we're creatures of instinct. It's nothing new for people to just jump to conclusions out of the blue with very little evidence.
 

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But the thing is Nemesis, we're creatures of instinct. It's nothing new for people to just jump to conclusions out of the blue with very little evidence.
I do know that, but that reasoning can indeed only go so far. Humans aren't just creatures of instinct, but of intelligent thinking. We can and have acted on more than just instinct.

And eventually, we're gonna have to move past this instinct to just react in the negative, especially when the consequences are now even more intense than ever. Like the whole Amber Heard v Johnny Depp case, where we're now seeing the consequences of our instincts of what male to female abuse is to completely ruin a man's career before actual evidence came to light that told a very different story. And yet, despite clear evidence, a lot of people don't want to let go of their initial instinctive response to it. Something that definitely hasn't been helped by The Sun libel case's ruling.

I'm not disagreeing with you about the idea of us as creatures of instinct. I'm just asking about the possibility of overcoming that.
 

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There's also the issue of In-groups and Out-groups. When you don't align or belong to those groups/ideas/beliefs, conflict is bound to happen.
 

NemesisSP

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There's also the issue of In-groups and Out-groups. When you don't align or belong to those groups/ideas/beliefs, conflict is bound to happen.
That is indeed very true.
 

Vulpes XIII

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Honestly this subject can be thought about in so many different ways which is why I find it extremely interesting. I agree that humans are creature of instinct and will act on it whether we are aware of it or not, too varying degrees depending on the person for example we all have a survival instinct however you can say that it is stronger in some people than others which I think could be affected by our personality. So using that logic you could say that some people could have a natural instinct to be more aggressive than others. However giving that humans have the ability to learn, change and adapt, the question technically becomes can we change our natural instinct? Do I think we can overcome it? Honestly it down to the individual in the end, you can’t change someone attitude if they refuse to change it in the first place.
 

NemesisSP

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It is definitely an interesting topic that could go a lot of directions. Such as how Absent suggested the In-Groups and Out-Groups. It really kind of really feels not so different from high school cliques. If you're not part of the group, then you're ostracized. I guess it's because a lot of people online these days are teenagers, after all.

So many factors to this indeed.
 
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