Orlando Nightclub Shooting-At least 50 dead

[Audo]

The majority of your government officials do not follow Islam and yet have been passing and campaigning for homophobic/transphobic laws incessantly over the past few months (and years). Violence against queer folk has been ramping up over the past few months and yet y'all act like it has no relation to this at all (I mean just the other day a woman set off a small bomb in Target due to them standing against transphobia). Queer people are still being murdered in the streets on a regular basis just for being queer. Acting like this is just about Islamic extremists and has nothing to do with the rampant homophobia and lack of gun control in America is incredibly disingenuous (nothing, after all, so far suggests that the foiled attack on the LA Pride by a white guy is tied to ISIS in any way).

when you join the biggest Islamic terrorist organization in the world right now that you're going to adopt their extreme ideologies

Acting like he didn't already have those homophobic ideologies and joined (or rather, pledged allegiance to) because of shared interest.

Pretty sad that these are still diddlying relevant.

But I'm done discussing this. I am so diddlying tired. Fifty of my people are dead.

 

[Chuman]

guy was a terrorist, regardless of his group or whatever. saying that Islam is a cancer is just fucking retarded. extremist groups like isis are, i agree wholeheartedly, but his religion didn't make him do it.

he was a homophobic piece of dogshit and nothing is going to come of this besides "uhh what a tragedy lets put in metal detectors at nightclubs and give gays the right to bear arms"

 

[Pinwheel]

I don't think anybody here is going to argue his religion was the sole reason he did it, but it's disingenuous to say that being a part of a faith that inherently has homophobic beliefs has nothing to do with what happened. It's not exactly out of the question that it's where he got the ideas in the first place and he took it to an extreme.

 

[Dreaded_Desire62]

I don't think anybody here is going to argue his religion was the sole reason he did it, but it's disingenuous to say that being a part of a faith that inherently has homophobic beliefs has nothing to do with what happened. It's not exactly out of the question that it's where he got the ideas in the first place and he took it to an extreme.

I remember that his parents said that Islam didn't have anything to do with his actions. Is that right?

 

[Pinwheel]

Well yeah, his parents are also Muslims. It'd be pretty out of place for them to pin the blame on something they also believe.

 

[Dreaded_Desire62]

Well yeah, his parents are also Muslims. It'd be pretty out of place for them to pin the blame on something they also believe.

True.

I also found this video regarding a survivor of the shooting. [video]http://www.nbcnews.com/video/massacre-survivor-i-had-to-play-dead-704297027850[/video] I can't seem to figure out to bring this into the video format since the link is too long. Can one of the mods help me fix this?

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I remember that his parents said that Islam didn't have anything to do with his actions. Is that right?

There's a fine line to that as it depends on the interpretation of Islam (or any Religion for that matter) if it has something to do with these actions or not.

It's also not like that only extremist/fanatic muslims have "anti-gay" policies in place or hate on an open-minded, more liberal and tolerant life-style in general, there are enough idiots around who have these policies in place who draw their excuses from a rigid interpretation of a different "holy book".

Especially when looking at the USA in particular there are also enough so-called "Christians" around who have the exact same views on this particular issue and are not an ounce better than IS, Al-Qaida or whatever you want to name the Islam-variants of the far religious right.
The religion itself is in most cases only a thinly veiled cardboard to try and present an air of "legitimacy" to discrimatory and hateful treatment of minorities, so the religion by itself is not the core problem but backwards thinking and discriminatory ideologies in itself are.

---

On the other hand, it's somewhat weird to read on one side the reports about great outrage, dismay and concern about it while in others you can read go "just another week in the USA" since such shootings/massacres happen regularily in that country and the NRA can pat themselves on the shoulders again cause "yay, weapons!".
I've even read some comments who claimed bafflement that the US is getting all upset over it since they should be used to their monthly mass shootings by now.

 

[kirabook]

All the books have sections in them that preach about murder and violence. It's just that recently, a group of people (who I doubt actually believe this mess) has taken this message and has convinced a generation of people that their message is right and it will help them and make their lives better.

The more you oppress people, the more they will lash out. Make no mistake, the US encouraged this radicalism we're seeing right now in some parts of the Islamic culture, and with each passing day, we make it worse and worse.

This guy was just another disaffected youth who believed he was being oppressed and had no future, so he went with the most extreme message out there to validate his pathetic life and ideology, the message of ISIS. He's not the first, and he won't be the last. At this point, I feel like we reap what we sow. We'll be dealing with this problem for decades to come, and it'll never stop until all religion is gone forever because at this point, it's just a headache in modern society.

 

[KingdomSlayer2]

Is it possible that this Omar guy was in anyway related to the video made by ISIS a few month backs. The video references New York City, but it is possible that ISIS was targeting the nation as a whole instead. Could it be that this could be one of their attacks? And are they planning more? Is anyone else under this assumption?

 

[VoidGear.]

Hey, Trump is using the shooting for the sake of blaming Obama for everything again.
Who would've thought.

 

[Xickin]

Ugh, it's people like this that make religion look like some sort of, well, plague! Religion is meant to guide and enlighten, to comfort and fall back on (to me at least). Islam is actually a very beautiful religion and it's just these extremists that refuse to interpret it's writings any other way and feel that the only way to follow it's teachings is through violence. Islam forbids wanton murder. This guy was just a fucking sicko that took many people away from their families.

 

[kirabook]

There's no way this guy was actually connected to ISIS. He's no different from the crazy people that admire serial killers and copy their actions.

 

[Dreaded_Desire62]

There's a fine line to that as it depends on the interpretation of Islam (or any Religion for that matter) if it has something to do with these actions or not.

It's also not like that only extremist/fanatic muslims have "anti-gay" policies in place or hate on an open-minded, more liberal and tolerant life-style in general, there are enough idiots around who have these policies in place who draw their excuses from a rigid interpretation of a different "holy book".

Especially when looking at the USA in particular there are also enough so-called "Christians" around who have the exact same views on this particular issue and are not an ounce better than IS, Al-Qaida or whatever you want to name the Islam-variants of the far religious right.
The religion itself is in most cases only a thinly veiled cardboard to try and present an air of "legitimacy" to discrimatory and hateful treatment of minorities, so the religion by itself is not the core problem but backwards thinking and discriminatory ideologies in itself are.

---

On the other hand, it's somewhat weird to read on one side the reports about great outrage, dismay and concern about it while in others you can read go "just another week in the USA" since such shootings/massacres happen regularily in that country and the NRA can pat themselves on the shoulders again cause "yay, weapons!".
I've even read some comments who claimed bafflement that the US is getting all upset over it since they should be used to their monthly mass shootings by now.

Hopefully, E3 won't be ruined by this shooting. I found this article: Orlando Shooting Puts E3's Shooter Games in Crosshairs It looks like violent video games are going to get blamed, even though the shooter probably had nothing to do with them.

 

[BlackOsprey]

There's no way this guy was actually connected to ISIS. He's no different from the crazy people that admire serial killers and copy their actions.

Yeah, it's not like ISIS is trying to recruit people in the West through the internet and the creation of propaganda aimed towards frustrated and disillusioned Americans...
Oh wait. They are.

I wouldn't rule the possibility out. Especially since most of ISIS' members are the "crazy people that admire serial killers and copy their actions."

Hopefully, E3 won't be ruined by this shooting. I found this article: Orlando Shooting Puts E3's Shooter Games in Crosshairs It looks like violent video games are going to get blamed, even though the shooter probably had nothing to do with them.

Oh, don't worry about it. Every time gun-related violence happens, everyone gets extra-leery of anything gun related... except for the movies, for whatever reason.
Makes me wonder what would happen if someone went on a murderous rampage with a kitchen cleaver instead.

 

[kirabook]

By that I meant, I doubt he was in contact with them and they personally gave him orders and supplies to carry out the actions that he did. He's like those San Bernadino shooters, admired and pledged allegiance with ISIS, but it was all really just an excuse to kill their coworkers.

That's not to say this isn't what ISIS intended. They don't even have to order people to go kill people and die for them, they'll gain admirers that will go do it even if they've never spoken to someone from ISIS

 

[VoidGear.]

A: "Hey, let's just blame all the muslims for what has happened in [Place XY]."
B: "Man, we can't. That's what we did last time, remember?"
A: "Ah, damn."
C: "Uhm, I have an idea. Maybe we should investigate on why hatred towards-"
B: "VIDEO GAMES! WE'LL JUST BLAME VIDEO GAMES!"
A: "Excellent."

 

[Magnus]

But let's not deny that there is a prominent culture that exists within Islam either, and to a certain extent in other religions as well. But Islam is pretty unique in that the map of Muslim countries is more or less identical to that of where it is illegal to be gay and punishable by life in prison or even death - that is just not a mere coincidence.

Of course, there are many layers to this. The American gun culture is definitely also to blame. Sadly, the anti-intellectual Trump voters don't like to hear this and think it's "unconstitutional" to impose any form of regulation. Like, of course blind people should be able to buy and use guns. Of course people on the terrorist watchlist should be able to get their guns. Speaking of which, Trump actually went there. He said in an interview that if people "in the room" had brought their own guns and fired back not as many people would have been killed (yeah, good idea... like it's so easy to react properly in a nightclub with neon lights, loud music and alcohol involved). And this is someone who stands a great chance of becoming your next president because people genuinely think he says great things. Get your act together, America.

 

[BlackOsprey]

That's not to say this isn't what ISIS intended. They don't even have to order people to go kill people and die for them, they'll gain admirers that will go do it even if they've never spoken to someone from ISIS

That's the idea.
ISIS doesn't actually have to give direct orders, just spread their venom and inspire otherwise unremarkable people to go on murder sprees. The more spontaneous, the better. Lack of direct communication makes it more difficult to intercept and prevent such attacks too.

 

[Dreaded_Desire62]

But let's not deny that there is a prominent culture that exists within Islam either, and to a certain extent in other religions as well. But Islam is pretty unique in that the map of Muslim countries is more or less identical to that of where it is illegal to be gay and punishable by life in prison or even death - that is just not a mere coincidence.

Of course, there are many layers to this. The American gun culture is definitely also to blame. Sadly, the anti-intellectual Trump voters don't like to hear this and think it's "unconstitutional" to impose any form of regulation. Like, of course blind people should be able to buy and use guns. Of course people on the terrorist watchlist should be able to get their guns. Speaking of which, Trump actually went there. He said in an interview that if people "in the room" had brought their own guns and fired back not as many people would have been killed (yeah, good idea... like it's so easy to react properly in a nightclub with neon lights, loud music and alcohol involved). And this is someone who stands a great chance of becoming your next president because people genuinely think he says great things. Get your act together, America.

It would pretty much play out like a scene from an Old West saloon.

 

[kirabook]

Yep. This is why I get particularly frustrated when politicians begin to say we aren't doing enough to prevent ISIS. They don't see the big picture, they seem to think ISIS is directly speaking to all of these random radical people and giving them the big plans on what they're going to do next.

The problem of ISIS is their message. They call out to people who have been hurt by our foreign policy and years of oppression, saying that by joining them and believing in their particular version of the Koran (I hope I spelled that right, I'm too sleepy to look it up as I type this), everything will be fixed. Even if that means killing their own among the people they dislike (some of the largest victims of ISIS are other Muslims who don't subscribe to their insanity)

To make ISIS's message obsolete, we have to change what we're doing in the middle east and how we treat minorities (Muslim minorities in this case)

Also, his father is a PoS and no wonder his son turned out this way. When you have children, goodness grief please raise them to be loving open minded individuals, not a life full of hatred for the 'other'.