Organization Spots~ Debate

[GTX]

After I saw the TGS trailer me and my friend got into a debate on whether the spots that belonged to dead members were going to be replaced with new ones. I represented that they would be replaced while my friend stood by that they wouldn't.

It all started when I noticed a sixth member in the trailer at the supposid Hollow Bastion.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/G-T-X/org1.jpg


For some reason we started to count out the members, which eventually lead to Riku and Mickey's presense.



I believe that they replaced the deceased order members. Why? I do infact believe the whole Riku and Mickey undercover in the organization thing. Riku and Mickey seem to be on good terms with DiZ, while DiZ seemed to guide Riku in KH: CoM. DiZ has also been wanting to destroy the order. So it wouldn't be too surprising if Riku and Mickey are going undercover to help him. They are also seen wearing organization coats in KH: CoM and KH2 (Unknown wielding swordeater I'm using as riku). So if they're is only one spot left (DiZ [conmfirmed in scan], EM, Xaldin, Zexion, Lexaseus, Vexen, Axel, larxene, Marluxia, Demyx, Luxord, *female member) it wouldn't make sense for both to be wearing the coats. I doubt they're both doing it to look cool that would ruin both characters) and they're not undercover unless they're both in it. So for it to make logical sense they both have to be in the order, which would mean they replaced the deceased members.

My friend also came up with some other good points as well. He says Riku and Mickey can't be in the organization because they both aren't shells. He does believe Mickey takes the last spot, while Riku doesn't. He believes that riku is wearing the coat to be protected from the other members, so he can be guided by DiZ. If he wears the coat he is basicaly one of them and therefore protected to get the guidance of DiZ.

I came up with some counter examples. For the Riku and Mickey being shells part I point back to my whole undercover thing. For Mickey taking the last spot, a new member is seen with the others that would probably take the last spot. And for riku wearing a coat to be protected, axel knows of riku and what he looks like from the replica.

So I ask you guys for your opinions. (I probably didn't word my friends argruements that well so hopefully he replies, but I got the gyst of what he said). Do you agree with either me or my friend? Do you have your own counter examples to prove that the deceased members aren't replaced. Or have another reason why they probably are?

 

[WonderngKeyblade]

I think no because aren't they a different part of the organization

 

[RikuIsMine77]

When I first saw this topic I must admit I thought it was another of those same 'these are the spots of the Org. members' threads, but you do actually have a good point. I also saw in the trailer some of the thirteen Org. members were missing. There weren't thirteen.

I've also debated why Riku would join the Org. due to getting nothing out of it since he's already human.

 

[Crimson Jazz]

I think no because aren't they a different part of the organization

No there is only one organization.XIII order is organization in Japanesse.(I remember reading about someone saying that) and I do not think they will replace the deceased Org. members.

 

[TheMuffinMan]

The Order's ranks are set in the order that they joined, so if one dies, his spot cannot be re-filled, because a new member would have to have a higher number than everyone else, becuase they joined most recently...

Thus, some guy can't just join the Order and become #6, becuase he would not have been the 6th person to join the Order

Also, the black coats do not necessarily represent being apart of the Order....

They could mean being a Shell, they could mean walking the path of Twilight, they could mean that you have spoken with, or were taught by Diz, and so on and so forth....

Thus, I beleive that the ranks stay the same, and the deceased have not been replaced in rank

 

[5 Kings of Twilight]

For clearing the problem "is riku in org"

Riku is not in the org, it would be like if
sora puts on a org cloak
Sora: Yay i'm in org
that doesn't make any sense doesnt it?
so result is that riku is not in org..

oh god this is turning into offical orgazation discussion thread.......

 

[GTX]

think no because aren't they a different part of the organization

I'm sorry I just don't get what you're saying.

I've also debated why Riku would join the Org. due to getting nothing out of it since he's already human.

I also don't really get what you're saying.

For clearing the problem "is riku in org"

Please clarify for us.

Riku is not in the org, it would be like if
sora puts on a org cloak
Sora: Yay i'm in org
that doesn't make any sense doesnt it?
so result is that riku is not in org..

That really doesn't clarify at all. If you'd be happy to explain with a better example.

The Order's ranks are set in the order that they joined, so if one dies, his spot cannot be re-filled, because a new member would have to have a higher number than everyone else, becuase they joined most recently...

Not to sound rude or naive, but where does it state that's how they are ranked. If you could post a link or help clarify for me, that way I won't be so naive next time. I thought that we didn't know how they ordered them, so it could have been based on their strength, wisdom, etc.

Thus, some guy can't just join the Order and become #6, becuase he would not have been the 6th person to join the Order

Also, the black coats do not necessarily represent being apart of the Order....

They could mean being a Shell, they could mean walking the path of Twilight, they could mean that you have spoken with, or were taught by Diz, and so on and so forth....

Good thoughts to think about. You have changed some of my perspectives. But I do still believe they have been replaced.

Thus, I beleive that the ranks stay the same, and the deceased have not been replaced in rank

Thank you for your input on the topic.

 

[RikuHeroOfDark]

After I saw the TGS trailer me and my friend got into a debate on whether the spots that belonged to dead members were going to be replaced with new ones. I represented that they would be replaced while my friend stood by that they wouldn't.

It all started when I noticed a sixth member in the trailer at the supposid Hollow Bastion.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/G-T-X/org1.jpg


For some reason we started to count out the members, which eventually lead to Riku and Mickey's presense.



I believe that they replaced the deceased order members. Why? I do infact believe the whole Riku and Mickey undercover in the organization thing. Riku and Mickey seem to be on good terms with DiZ, while DiZ seemed to guide Riku in KH: CoM. DiZ has also been wanting to destroy the order. So it wouldn't be too surprising if Riku and Mickey are going undercover to help him. They are also seen wearing organization coats in KH: CoM and KH2 (Unknown wielding swordeater I'm using as riku). So if they're is only one spot left (DiZ [conmfirmed in scan], EM, Xaldin, Zexion, Lexaseus, Vexen, Axel, larxene, Marluxia, Demyx, Luxord, *female member) it wouldn't make sense for both to be wearing the coats. I doubt they're both doing it to look cool that would ruin both characters) and they're not undercover unless they're both in it. So for it to make logical sense they both have to be in the order, which would mean they replaced the deceased members.

My friend also came up with some other good points as well. He says Riku and Mickey can't be in the organization because they both aren't shells. He does believe Mickey takes the last spot, while Riku doesn't. He believes that riku is wearing the coat to be protected from the other members, so he can be guided by DiZ. If he wears the coat he is basicaly one of them and therefore protected to get the guidance of DiZ.

I came up with some counter examples. For the Riku and Mickey being shells part I point back to my whole undercover thing. For Mickey taking the last spot, a new member is seen with the others that would probably take the last spot. And for riku wearing a coat to be protected, axel knows of riku and what he looks like from the replica.

So I ask you guys for your opinions. (I probably didn't word my friends argruements that well so hopefully he replies, but I got the gyst of what he said). Do you agree with either me or my friend? Do you have your own counter examples to prove that the deceased members aren't replaced. Or have another reason why they probably are?

i dont support either because in order for mickey or riku to be in the org. they would have to be shells yet both have hearts and cannot be shells

the org. seems to be ranked by the order in which they joined because vexen had a higher rank while marluxia had more power in castle oblivion or axel was trusted more than any other org. member yet he was trusted more by the superior than any other org. member in CoM

i doubt either of them are in the org. because the org. knows them well and in CoM they had already knew who they were when they arrive and how can you not tell that mickey is mickey(hope that made sense ) and it seems that shells can sense shells

to me it seems like all that matters to the org. is that there was once 13 members like a prophecy or something and the most important people in the org. will be #1, #2, and #13

 

[dreadlife-antikh]

Some guys are just hard headed.... i dont think that the org members have been replaced but i STRONGLY believe that the dead org members WILL come back for the seque( just bet it with me)....besides they have been shown in every magazine that deals with the organization topics( and dont say that its just some recaps from chain of memories) because for them to keep on reappearing in the kh2 mags, then they must be important to be in the sequel...besides for some of the disney villains to come back.. why cant they.

 

[GTX]

i dont support either because in order for mickey or riku to be in the org. they would have to be shells yet both have hearts and cannot be shells

the org. seems to be ranked by the order in which they joined because vexen had a higher rank while marluxia had more power in castle oblivion or axel was trusted more than any other org. member yet he was trusted more by the superior than any other org. member in CoM

i doubt either of them are in the org. because the org. knows them well and in CoM they had already knew who they were when they arrive and how can you not tell that mickey is mickey(hope that made sense ) and it seems that shells can sense shells

to me it seems like all that matters to the org. is that there was once 13 members like a prophecy or something and the most important people in the org. will be #1, #2, and #13

Long time no see. Thanks for the input. Most of the stuff i did get though, so don't worry, tou were easy to understand (except the shells can sense shells part.) You and TMM pretty much convinced me that they might keep the other members places.

Some guys are just hard headed....

Are you insulting me? respect is something every member seems to lack these days. I respect you and you should do the same.

then they must be important to be in the sequel...besides for some of the disney villains to come back.. why cant they.

The disney villians came back because they never really died, they were just defeated (with the exception of oogie boogie).

 

[RikuHeroOfDark]

Long time no see. Thanks for the input. Most of the stuff i did get though, so don't worry, tou were easy to understand (except the shells can sense shells part.) You and TMM pretty much convinced me that they might keep the other members places.

yea, i finally a pemium member lol, i meant like how a human can tell another human say from a monkey or a dog the same a shell can tell a shell from just a heartless, or a full person, or a person like ansem

 

[dreadlife-antikh]

AS I WAS SAYING ..... THE ORG MEMBERS WILL RETURN..JUST WATCH(and nomura confirmed that their are 13 members in kh2)...and dont say that they got replaced cause they didnt.