Okay, major questions about Xemnas!!!



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paopoop

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Okay, been replaying kh2.5 remix and WOW it's been YEARS since I played 2.

My biggest questions are about Xemnas tho.

So, xemnas is the nobody of terra-nort (terra's body, xehanort's heart), right? So that means xemnas is just Terra's body, then. When xemnas is defeated, is that end of terra? cause like omfg no that can't be.

Furthermore, does xemnas have his memories of when he was terra? He seems to remember Aqua based on the armor. Then xigbar mentions the chamber of waking, which means that obviously xemnas knows that Ventus is in there. And like, I always assumed that Braig told Terranort about Terra's life after Terranort forgot everything. But Xigbar obviously doesn't know everything that's going on.

Also, how the hell does xigbar know all that? (like, how would he know about Ventus in Castle Oblivion?)

NOT DONE. Did xemnas send organization members to castle oblivion simply to find ven? Why would xemnas want ven? Key blade war????

ALSO WAS THE PLOT OF KH2 JUST A HOAX. Like OBVIOUSLY if xemnas knew about MX's plan (or did he forget after time travel????), he doesn't give two shits about the nobodies getting hearts since A. They were gonna be vessels, B. They grow their own hearts, and C. He friggen did it to them in the first place. Like, all that angst sora had (I can't use the key blade!!!!!!!) or like saix being all stoic about kingdom hearts, everyone working towards this dream of getting a heart... Was a major part of my childhood really just some long ass BS scheme concocted by Xemnas?!?!?

Also, can we just talk about the little signs that xemnas drops that are congruent with BBS. Like when roxas falls asleep he says "so sleep has taken you yet again" or something like that like HOLY SHIT or like think of when he first named Roxas and HOW WEIRD THAT IS VENTUS's NOBODY AND TERRA'S SORT OF NOBODY ARE SITTING THERE TOGETHER ONE KNOWS THE TRUTH THE OTHER DOESN'T?????? Ugh.

What gets me the most is when xemnas is like "I'm all that's left. Or maybe I'm all there ever was" I jus think of terra and terra nort and the fact that he's just an empty shell of that with the memories rattling inside ugh I'm getting emotional sorry

But can someone please make sense of this?!?

Also, who's body did Roxas have??? Not ven's obviously. And Sora was in Castle Oblivion while Roxas was in the Organization, so not Sora's. So like, who's heart????????????
 

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So a lot of your questions can be answered if you just assume that Xemnas did remember his entire past as Xehanort. After all, it's been said that Xehanort (and Sora) was the only person to have kept their thoughts and feelings after being turned into a heartless. Perhaps it was the same case for him when he turned into a Nobody?

The notion that Xemnas is actually Terra's nobody is an interesting one. I can't give you a solid answer on that one, but I can tell you that when Xemnas was defeated, he probably fusion-ha'd with his heartless to become Xehanort again. I mean that's pretty much what happened with Lea and everyone else right?

Xigbar probably knows about Ventus in CO because Terra-nort (or Xehanort, who knows) told him. This is also taking into account that Xemnas remembered everything about when he was Xehanort.

Xemnas wants Ven for keyblade war, yep.

It's true that Xemnas lied to everyone in the organization about getting hearts, but I think that building Kingdom Hearts attributed to his plan that he already established in bbs. That's just what I think though, I could be wrong. I don't have anything to back this up either so hum ^_^;

I mean, isn't Roxas Sora's nobody, since he came from Sora? Sure he takes on Ventus' appearance, but he still came from Sora. In fact, this probably rings true for Xemnas. Anyway.

The line, "I'm all that's left. Or maybe I'm all there ever was," I always thought came from Ansem the wise. I'm probably wrong about that though. Can someone correct me on that if I am?
 

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Okay, been replaying kh2.5 remix and WOW it's been YEARS since I played 2.

My biggest questions are about Xemnas tho.

So, xemnas is the nobody of terra-nort (terra's body, xehanort's heart), right? So that means xemnas is just Terra's body, then. When xemnas is defeated, is that end of terra? cause like omfg no that can't be.

Furthermore, does xemnas have his memories of when he was terra? He seems to remember Aqua based on the armor. Then xigbar mentions the chamber of waking, which means that obviously xemnas knows that Ventus is in there. And like, I always assumed that Braig told Terranort about Terra's life after Terranort forgot everything. But Xigbar obviously doesn't know everything that's going on.

Also, how the hell does xigbar know all that? (like, how would he know about Ventus in Castle Oblivion?)

NOT DONE. Did xemnas send organization members to castle oblivion simply to find ven? Why would xemnas want ven? Key blade war????

ALSO WAS THE PLOT OF KH2 JUST A HOAX. Like OBVIOUSLY if xemnas knew about MX's plan (or did he forget after time travel????), he doesn't give two shits about the nobodies getting hearts since A. They were gonna be vessels, B. They grow their own hearts, and C. He friggen did it to them in the first place. Like, all that angst sora had (I can't use the key blade!!!!!!!) or like saix being all stoic about kingdom hearts, everyone working towards this dream of getting a heart... Was a major part of my childhood really just some long ass BS scheme concocted by Xemnas?!?!?

Also, can we just talk about the little signs that xemnas drops that are congruent with BBS. Like when roxas falls asleep he says "so sleep has taken you yet again" or something like that like HOLY SHIT or like think of when he first named Roxas and HOW WEIRD THAT IS VENTUS's NOBODY AND TERRA'S SORT OF NOBODY ARE SITTING THERE TOGETHER ONE KNOWS THE TRUTH THE OTHER DOESN'T?????? Ugh.

What gets me the most is when xemnas is like "I'm all that's left. Or maybe I'm all there ever was" I jus think of terra and terra nort and the fact that he's just an empty shell of that with the memories rattling inside ugh I'm getting emotional sorry

But can someone please make sense of this?!?

Also, who's body did Roxas have??? Not ven's obviously. And Sora was in Castle Oblivion while Roxas was in the Organization, so not Sora's. So like, who's heart????????????
Let's get this started one point after the other.
Considering you refer to DDDs plot as well I assume you have played(or watched cutscenes of) all the games and therefore I don't need to use spoiler tags.

When both Xemnas and Ansem SoD are defeated the restoration process kicks in that restores the original person. Since Terra-Xehanort was a mashup of two (three if you count Eraqus) persons though, the restoration worked differently as seen in the finale of Dream Drop Distance.
Master Xehanort returns to his own, original body in the process and what exactly happened to Terra is one of the riddles left deliberately unanswered by the series' creator, Tetsuya Nomura. The question about the whereabouts of Terra's body and heart is mentioned in the DDD Ultimania, but ultimatively kept open.

Xemnas never "was Terra" at all, he was Terra-Xehanort, but it is confirmed that he had some memories of both Terra and Master Xehanort.
Braig/Xigbar certainly would not tell Terra-Xehanort anything about Terra's life (not to mention that he doesn't even know much of it) since he works for Master Xehanort and thus does everything in his power to ensure that Xehanort's traits and goals are the dominant ones.

Xigbar admits to often eavesdropping, so he would learn much by just listening to Xemnas (he mentions that Xemnas often speaks in the Chamber of Repose).

Yes, it is outright stated that Xemnas continually send Organisation members, most often Axel, to search and locate the Chamber of Waking and it's implied that he was partially obsessed with finding it.
The why is not really made clear, but considering Ventus' body and soul is without a heart to control it right now, Xehanort might have wanted to use it as another vessel (even if in BBS he outright dismissed Ven as "unsuitable" to be a vessel).

The plot of KH2 was not specifically a hoax, but a deliberate conspiracy concocted by Master Xehanort from behind the scenes that was carried out and maintained by Xemnas and Braig/Xigbar acting as Xehanort's enforcers. Ansem SoD from the first KH was also into it and both the plots of KH 1 and KH 2 were two halves of another plan of Xehanort to get his hands on the power of Kingdom Hearts.
Xemnas did not only not give a shit about the Nobodies getting hearts, he deliberately lied and tried to prevent them from growing their own hearts by concealing that fact from them and constantly telling them "you can't really feel, it's just a trick from your leftover memories, you don't really exist".
DiZ(Ansem the Wise) also found out in his research that Nobodies are capable of growing their own hearts given the right circumstances and "nuturing", but he refused to accept these findings and kept them secret because he hated Nobodies.

Roxas is Sora's Nobody, not Ven's. Roxas has nothing to do with Ventus except the shared physical appearance which stems from Roxas carrying around Ven's injured, inactive heart.

Roxas had Sora's original body, as per the definition of what a Nobody is.
When Sora became a Heartless after stabbing himself with the Keyblade of People's Hearts in KH 1, his and Kairi's hearts were released and gave birth to Roxas (from Sora's heart) and Naminé (from Kairi's heart). Ventus' heart however, injured and sleeping as it was, remained with Sora's body and since it was the only heart left passively shaped the body to look like Ven.
When Kairi restored Sora, she either gave him a new body or something else that functioned like one (this one isn't addressed by the series so far).
 

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Okay, been replaying kh2.5 remix and WOW it's been YEARS since I played 2.

My biggest questions are about Xemnas tho.

So, xemnas is the nobody of terra-nort (terra's body, xehanort's heart), right? So that means xemnas is just Terra's body, then. When xemnas is defeated, is that end of terra? cause like omfg no that can't be.

Also, who's body did Roxas have??? Not ven's obviously. And Sora was in Castle Oblivion while Roxas was in the Organization, so not Sora's. So like, who's heart????????????
About Xemnas being Terranorts nobody...that is obvously right. At the moment where Xemnas has been defeated at the end of KH2, what happened was that Xemnas' body vanished and the real Master Xehanort was able to return from that very moment due to the fact that both the heartless and the nobody has been defeated (As Yen Sid explained in one of the special endings of Re:Coded). About Terra, remember that MX used Terra as a vessel to create his heartless Xehanort and his nobody Xemnas because MX' body was just too old and too fragile to form a strong Heartless and Nobody. Terras heart is still existing though, probably found a way inside of Rikus hearts at the moment where Xehanorts Heartless took control over Rikus body. I guess that we will find out more about that in BBS 0.2 and KH3 and that saving Terra will be one of Soras main tasks in KH3. Also its save to say that Master Xehanorts Masterplan will be revealed in KH3. And about Roxas appearance, Roxas has the body of Ven but he is definitely Soras nobody (you can actually see that in Roxas' face if you look closely and compare it with Ventus and Sora) . Anyway, as i stated before, we will find out more about that in KH3 and probably BBS 0.2.
 
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When Kairi restored Sora, she either gave him a new body or something else that functioned like one (this one isn't addressed by the series so far).
I think that was due to the strong connection between Sora and Kairi. Sora is the Main character in the series after all and this allows him to break the rules.
 

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wow okay THANK YOU HOLY CRAP

This cleared up pretty much all of the questions I have.

I think part of the reason I didn't get all these things was because I never finished DDD all the way through, I only finished Riku's story because the 2ds is so damn frustrating.
And yeah I still watched the rest of the cutscenes but idk I just didn't quite piece everything together.

So thank you!!!!!
 

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A Terras heart is still existing though, probably found a way inside of Rikus hearts at the moment where Xehanorts Heartless took control over Rikus body. I guess that we will find out more about that in BBS 0.2 and KH3 and that saving Terra will be one of Soras main tasks in KH3.
holy crap that's a really interesting theory. I try not to rely on theories bc tbh some of them are so grandiose and over the top or just don't make sense, but that's a something I would LOVE to see cannon.
 

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I mean, isn't Roxas Sora's nobody, since he came from Sora? Sure he takes on Ventus' appearance, but he still came from Sora. In fact, this probably rings true for Xemnas. Anyway.

The line, "I'm all that's left. Or maybe I'm all there ever was," I always thought came from Ansem the wise. I'm probably wrong about that though. Can someone correct me on that if I am?

I never thought about that as why Xemnas looks like Terra, so yeah!! That makes sense!!! Thank you!!

And that quote actually comes from Xemnas. Later in the game, that scene has voice in it, and it's Xemnas talking to Roxas.
I always just thought of it as a glimpse as to what Xemnas was feeling, like sort of the "nobodie's deal" you know?
 

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And about Roxas appearance, Roxas has the body of Ven but he is definitely Soras nobody (you can actually see that in Roxas' face if you look closely and compare it with Ventus and Sora).
Err no, Roxas has the appearance of Ven, but not his body. Ventus' body is still sleeping in Castle Oblivion. The body Roxas inhabits is Sora's original body from KH 1 shaped to look like Ven.

I think that was due to the strong connection between Sora and Kairi. Sora is the Main character in the series after all and this allows him to break the rules.
Either that or it's some unexplained effect of the Princess-of-Heart-powers in general. Fact is that there is not a confirmed and feasible official explanation so far.
Story-wise for KH 1 it was of course a deus-ex-machina and Sora having protagonist-bonus/plot armor.

wow okay THANK YOU HOLY CRAP

This cleared up pretty much all of the questions I have.

I think part of the reason I didn't get all these things was because I never finished DDD all the way through, I only finished Riku's story because the 2ds is so damn frustrating.
And yeah I still watched the rest of the cutscenes but idk I just didn't quite piece everything together.

So thank you!!!!!
To be fair there are some scenes and conversations in the KH series you have to watch/see two or three times to truly understand them and sometimes have to connect them with older stuff from other games too to make full sense.

I never thought about that as why Xemnas looks like Terra, so yeah!! That makes sense!!! Thank you!!
Xemnas looks like "Terra" because Terra-Xehanort looked like Terra, but the heart he ultimatively came from was Xehanort's.
 

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Speaking about the amnesia that Apprentice Nort might have had, you guys have probably analyzed this to dead already, but I think his eye movement is really interesting. When Ansem the Wise is asking him for his name, Terranort moves his eyes in way that could imply a few things: either he is really scrapping the few bits of memory he has left, and the name Xehanort comes up. Or maybe he is thinking what reply would be best in that situation. Or maybe he even himself at that point questions if that is his real name at all or something. I know this does not give a straight answer to the question, since the eye movement could mean million things. Just thought it was interesting so that is why I mentioned it.

His eye color seems to change to brown later on thou.
 

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Speaking about the amnesia that Apprentice Nort might have had, you guys have probably analyzed this to dead already, but I think his eye movement is really interesting. When Ansem the Wise is asking him for his name, Terranort moves his eyes in way that could imply a few things: either he is really scrapping the few bits of memory he has left, and the name Xehanort comes up. Or maybe he is thinking what reply would be best in that situation. Or maybe he even himself at that point questions if that is his real name at all or something. I know this does not give a straight answer to the question, since the eye movement could mean million things. Just thought it was interesting so that is why I mentioned it.

His eye color seems to change to brown later on thou.
This topic can still be further analzyed simply because it is still open. Regardless of any further hints and implications made by DDD, that issue still remains unresolved.
Wow, you really have a sharp eye to pay attention to something as subdued as simple eye movement. BBS being only for PSP originally also would make observing this harder, I wonder if the 2.5 Version shows it better on this regard.

It may not give a straight answer, but it can certainly be taken into account for another indicator nonetheless.

The eye color change is something that has been noted quite often, especially since it originated in KH 2 and was not changed for Apprentice Xehanort's one single scene in BBS.
Some bring forth that the eye color change is an indicator that neither Terra nor Master Xehanort were in full control while again others use it as a main reason to argue that Apprentice Xehanort is a being that is different from Terra-Xehanort and Ansem SoD.
 

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This topic can still be further analzyed simply because it is still open. Regardless of any further hints and implications made by DDD, that issue still remains unresolved.
Wow, you really have a sharp eye to pay attention to something as subdued as simple eye movement. BBS being only for PSP originally also would make observing this harder, I wonder if the 2.5 Version shows it better on this regard.

It may not give a straight answer, but it can certainly be taken into account for another indicator nonetheless.

The eye color change is something that has been noted quite often, especially since it originated in KH 2 and was not changed for Apprentice Xehanort's one single scene in BBS.
Some bring forth that the eye color change is an indicator that neither Terra nor Master Xehanort were in full control while again others use it as a main reason to argue that Apprentice Xehanort is a being that is different from Terra-Xehanort and Ansem SoD.
Indeed, DDD gave some new interesting pieces with the "My name is Ansem" cutscene at the beginning of the game.

Thank you! This compliment means a lot to me. :) I think I noticed it the first time when I played BBS on the PSP in 2011, but I did not really know forums like these so I could not really talk about these ideas. The 2.5 version makes it easier to see in my opinion. Terranort`s face also has an really interesting emotion on it. I am not sure if it`s confusion or something alone that lines of a"mask" which he uses hides his true intentions. To look it even further, here is the PSP version:


And here is the 2.5 version:


The 2.5 version is more cleaner that the PSP version. I know a gif would be better, but I hope this gets the idea across.
Also the face is so meme material. Suspicious Terranort is suspicious. :D

The eye color is really fascinating since it did not change, and it can be seen to indicate the possibilities you described. Also one the most interesting theories I read about the amnesia issue was that maybe AtW psychological tests made the sleeping memories rise to the surface again.
I would also be really interested to see what they eye color was when Apprentice Nort summons the Goat Keyblade. Of course the scene is done so that you can`t see the eyes from the glass windows reflection when he stabs Braig. Pretty sure Nomura wanted to hide it. :D

Oh also another thing regarding to the Xemnas, Terra, Xehanort jumble. This might be a little thing, but Xemnas hand motion is quite interesting. While he sits on his throne, he has his head rest on top his right hand:


This was in Days. I think the use of his right hand is a remnant of sorts from Master Xehanort. MX uses the Goat Keyblade with his right hand, so I think this means that he is right handed. He also rest his chin on top his right hand, as was seen in DDD:


Xemnas also uses his right hand when he does the big X-mark on Roxas name in Twilight Town.

But as I take a closer look on most of the other characters, most of the battle stances and the hold of their Keyblade indicates that they are right handed also. I think there was even a thread about this in one point. So maybe in reality it is a manifestation of Nomura, since he is right handed. So he designs characters that are right handed? o_0
Man, only in KH you can make speculations like these. :D
 

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I feel like every KH game after 2 just keeps spiraling the Apprentice Xehanort/Xemnas/Ansem mess into disaster.
Was it really necessary to hide it for this long, I've been speculating a lot of things and have my own ideas for a very long time, I really want to see how this pans out.

It's actually incredibly difficult to put your finger down on exactly what Xemnas wants, but it seems Xigbar, who is meant to be in league with Xemnas actually doubts him too, (cutscene where he's talking with Zexion about the secret room) not to mention that in the 2.5 secret ending it seems like even Xigbar has his own ideas as well.

It's even worse when we get into the discussion of whose nobody Xemnas is. Is he really even a nobody to begin with? You never really know, they seem to retcon nearly everything in this series.
If we want to talk about eye colour, both Xemnas and Saix's eye colour seem to change between orange and yellow at times.
The only complete being, at this point, who has orange eyes is Ansem the Wise, or if you want to include the "Heartless" Ansem as well then I guess that's fine.

I'm never going to drop this, but the beginning of KH3D is also one of the most suspicious scenes to me. As I'm sure it's meant to be, but a lot of people overlook it. Why would they add it into the very first scene of KH3D if it had no significance? Sure, we know that Apprentice Xehanort took out all the other apprentices in order to go ahead with the "plan", but was there a reason to place the scene in if it was simply showcasing this event? If Master Xehanort was in control, and it truly was all apart of his plan, surely he would already have created a Nobody of Braig beforehand, while Master Xehanort himself was still around? Why at that moment? In his eyes, wasn't Braig already one of his vessels? Why was it even necessary to strike him down?

Also about the eye movement. I think what is more interesting to note is after being exposed to the explosion of the X-blade at the end of KHBBS, firstly, what was Terranort doing during that gap that followed the blast and Aqua finding him? Surely he wasn't just standing in the center of Radiant Garden gazing at the sky the whole time. Secondly, why was he in Radiant Garden, of all places?
And finally, when Aqua does go to speak to him, it's there that we see true confusion, if you see his eyes in that scene, his pupils are very small and lack any shine. As he begins to speak, the pupils dilate as he seems to regain a sense of self. I think we can say that he truly is confused during that scene, however in the scene where Ansem the Wise finds him, sure, he could be acting.
 

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Yeah, I hope that we get some sort of answer to this question in KHIII, but the changes aren`t looking really good.
It is also really suspicious why that scene was in the beginning.

Also about the eye movement. I think what is more interesting to note is after being exposed to the explosion of the X-blade at the end of KHBBS, firstly, what was Terranort doing during that gap that followed the blast and Aqua finding him? Surely he wasn't just standing in the center of Radiant Garden gazing at the sky the whole time. Secondly, why was he in Radiant Garden, of all places?
And finally, when Aqua does go to speak to him, it's there that we see true confusion, if you see his eyes in that scene, his pupils are very small and lack any shine. As he begins to speak, the pupils dilate as he seems to regain a sense of self. I think we can say that he truly is confused during that scene, however in the scene where Ansem the Wise finds him, sure, he could be acting.
I have had this some sort of feeling that after the Lingering Will knocks Terranot unconscious, the blast throws him to Radiant Garden since that world is one the closer ones to the Keyblade Graveyard. I also have had this idea that when he lands there he is still unconscious, wakes up around the time Terra is calling to Aqua, and uhh... stares the sky in confusion. I have thought that he was in such a terrible state that he was not even able to wander around the area he landed to, and comes to his senses until Aqua arrives.
Also, the eye movement that you notice really speaks about the complete confusion of state that he is in. Eyes tell very much and I think it is really cool that the developers made these little details in the game.
 

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I feel like every KH game after 2 just keeps spiraling the Apprentice Xehanort/Xemnas/Ansem mess into disaster.
It truly does. To the point that I feel that Nomura has basically abandoned any ideas or plot threads he was leaving around in DDD. Basically makes it so that Oldnort was behind everything and their actions thus nulling any need to explain Xemnas further.
 
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