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Ok my unbirth theory!



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Aqua13

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It's kind of a given.
If they've gone out of their way to avoid death in the first 5 games, why would the 7th be about death?
This is something I ask to both you and keybladelegacy.

And learn to quote dammit!

ok ok, ok i will learn how to quote.
 

Axelfan008

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It's kind of a given.
If they've gone out of their way to avoid death in the first 5 games, why would the 7th be about death?
This is something I ask to both you and keybladelegacy.

And learn to quote dammit!
Plenty of people died during the games. Ansem, Organization members, even people from the destroyed worlds up until Xehanort was defeated.

I STILL think heartless and nobodies existed right from the point when the worlds were dissconnected. Maybe not in as great a number as they were in KHI and II, but still there.
 

Iridium

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Plenty of people died during the games. Ansem, Organization members, even people from the destroyed worlds up until Xehanort was defeated.

They didn't "die", they were just disjointed from their original bodies. The only ones in the entire series that died were Ansem the Wise and Riku Replica. Period. When a heartless is destroyed the captive heart returns to the original body and vice versa.

[EDIT]

On that note, if the heartless that contains the original nobodies heart hasn't yet been released the body of the nobody will wait in darkness IE KH.

I STILL think heartless and nobodies existed right from the point when the worlds were dissconnected. Maybe not in as great a number as they were in KHI and II, but still there.

They only existed after Xehanort created them. The worlds had to of been disconnected well before then otherwise traversing the worlds would be impossible. Then again travel within BBS hasn't been explored yet, so I could very well be wrong.
 

Orion

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Plenty of people died during the games. Ansem, Organization members, even people from the destroyed worlds up until Xehanort was defeated.
There's a difference between people dying and a theme of the games being death.
 

Axelfan008

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They only existed after Xehanort created them. The worlds had to of been disconnected well before then otherwise traversing the worlds would be impossible. Then again travel within BBS hasn't been explored yet, so I could very well be wrong.
I'll give you the death one, but read the last three ansem reports, from the Final Mix. Xehanort says that he only created the heartless in Hollow Bastion, and because of their apperance, the World "wall" or border, was destroyed, so the king could come. The King couldn't have come if there wern't heartless already.
 

Genocide

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Plenty of people died during the games. Ansem, Organization members, even people from the destroyed worlds up until Xehanort was defeated.

Only Ansem and Riku Replica.

3 of th Organization are alive.
Xehanort, Sora, and whoever's Axel's other is.

the Organization didn't "die".

I STILL think heartless and nobodies existed right from the point when the worlds were dissconnected. Maybe not in as great a number as they were in KHI and II, but still there.

no.

I'll give you the death one, but read the last three ansem reports, from the Final Mix. Xehanort says that he only created the heartless in Hollow Bastion, and because of their apperance, the World "wall" or border, was destroyed, so the king could come. The King couldn't have come if there wern't heartless already.

They spread out to other worlds using the door in the HB basement.

Ah, and I too like the Ansem Retort. I, however, have been following it since its creation.
 

yugi300

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Lol why not Terra and the crew, he seems to be the older learder of the group like Riku ahahahahah...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Muse

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Lol why not Terra and the crew, he seems to be the older learder of the group like Riku ahahahahah...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brilliant deduction you did there. And I suppose Ven = Sora and Aqua = Kairi because Ven and Sora are the younger of the group and Aqua and Kairi are the only girls?
 
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Soundtoken

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All this in my opinion adds up but some thing dosnt and i don't got much time now so I'll just say one thing. ?Has any one considerd the 14th member [xion]... really that could be the REAL nobody of Kairi.
 

Muse

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All this in my opinion adds up but some thing dosnt and i don't got much time now so I'll just say one thing. ?Has any one considerd the 14th member [xion]... really that could be the REAL nobody of Kairi.

I'm fairly certain you're not the first one to say that and you won't be the last.

Now, has anyone considered the fact that Kairi by herself is incapable of forming a Nobody? One has to become a Heartless to have a Nobody, no? And Kairi is incapable of becoming a Heartless. So, since she can't become a Heartless, she can't have a Nobody. At least on her own.
 

[√]Genuflect
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the theory that unbirths are the heartless's ancestor
it's not a theory.
It's the truth.

Now, has anyone considered the fact that Kairi by herself is incapable of forming a Nobody? One has to become a Heartless to have a Nobody, no? And Kairi is incapable of becoming a Heartless. So, since she can't become a Heartless, she can't have a Nobody. At least on her own.
Then why the fuck namine fused with kairi in the end?
 

Muse

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Then why the fuck namine fused with kairi in the end?

Plot device? Namine wasn't even supposed to be related to Kairi at all. In CoM she was supposed to be literally another girl. KH2 decided to make her Kairi's Nobody just so they could try and play SoKai off of RokuNami.

Namine, being made from Kairi's heart leaving Sora's body, is more of Sora's Nobody than anything, considering she was made from whatever scraps she could find after Roxas took Sora's body and soul. She didn't take anything from Kairi.

Also, reread what I said. Kairi can't have a Nobody by herself. Who is Namine? A Nobody created by Kairi and Sora. Not Kairi by herself, but Kairi and Sora. So, once again, Kairi can't create a Nobody by herself.
 

Smile

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Then why the fuck namine fused with kairi in the end?

Self preservation. She had no where else to turn to save than to Kairi, seeing how Kairi's Sense of Self is what ended up leaving its imprint on her.
That only means she's related to Kairi's Heart. As Araliya said, Sora was the one who became a Heartless, who cast off a Nobody, and whose Memories Namine has relations to. And yet since his Heart wasn't what made Namine be born, she's not his Unbi- I mean Nobody.
 

zillagod

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Self preservation. She had no where else to turn to save than to Kairi, seeing how Kairi's Sense of Self is what ended up leaving its imprint on her.
That only means she's related to Kairi's Heart. As Araliya said, Sora was the one who became a Heartless, who cast off a Nobody, and whose Memories Namine has relations to. And yet since his Heart wasn't what made Namine be born, she's not his Unbi- I mean Nobody.

So that's what you think Namine' is eh? I can see it as a possibility. :) The only strange thing about that, is it seems all knowledge of them ceased to exist after BBS...
 

Smile

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So that's what you think Namine' is eh? I can see it as a possibility. :) The only strange thing about that, is it seems all knowledge of them ceased to exist after BBS...

Right.
So we have a highly unique and unstable Nobody whose proper make-up doesn't really fit in with what we know Nobodies to be.
Knowing nothing of Unbirths, we also know nothing that would properly contradict this little theory of mine, at least for a while :D
 

forget-me-not

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Alright, what if unbirths came before anything was divided. For a heartless, the heart was cut off from the body and soul, and likewise for nobodies the body and soul are divided from the heart. This division was a result of the heart being overcome by darkness. Well, what if instead when a being was overcome by darkness, they stayed intact. An unbirth would be the incarnation of a body, soul, and heart that had been lost to darkness. Heartless were created when someone (Xehanort?) discovered how to divide the heart from the rest of the being. So once this was accomplished, the unbirths died out. This is where my theory gets a little sketchy; the reason unbirths died out is because when a heart was divided from the body and soul, it became impossible for this not to happen. Almost like evolution. After the first division was made, every being to fall to darkness afterward would automatically split in two.
 

zillagod

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Alright, what if unbirths came before anything was divided. For a heartless, the heart was cut off from the body and soul, and likewise for nobodies the body and soul are divided from the heart. This division was a result of the heart being overcome by darkness. Well, what if instead when a being was overcome by darkness, they stayed intact. An unbirth would be the incarnation of a body, soul, and heart that had been lost to darkness. Heartless were created when someone (Xehanort?) discovered how to divide the heart from the rest of the being. So once this was accomplished, the unbirths died out. This is where my theory gets a little sketchy; the reason unbirths died out is because when a heart was divided from the body and soul, it became impossible for this not to happen. Almost like evolution. After the first division was made, every being to fall to darkness afterward would automatically split in two.

Well this is very interesting indeed! That theory does seem to fit very good. Espescially considering that unbirth's emblems contain the trinity within it, which supposedly represents a complete being (the heart, body, and soul.) The part at the end though, about the process of hearts seperating becoming an automatic thing is still a mystery. All together though I really find this theory quite plausible.

Of course the biggest issue with this theory which mainly pretains to the last bit, is that there are naturally occuring heartless. Remember that the ones that were made artifically by XH have the heartless emblem on them, natural ones do not. If you could figure out an answer to that then you would be all set, I think.

Edit: Maybe something MX does starts the process of hearts seperating from bodies and souls naturally? Maybe the opening of Kindom Hearts? (just brainstorming)
 

AzzurroRainrebor

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It's a secret to everybody.
Heartless and Nobodies don't exist during BBS.
If the body gets separated from the soul, it perishes.
Xehanort was the one to create the Heartless and subsequently the Nobodies.

Exactly, so I wonder to where did these Unbirths vanish. Are they primitive heartless, or what? What could possibly be the formula for their existence? Were they extracted somehow from an existing being (human, maybe) or ~idea~? If they were somehow drawn out of some other being, then was this withdrawal one of the being's soul, heart, mind, or what?:confused: sumimasen, watashi wa hontou ni baka desu.
 
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