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[MATGSY]

Let's take one moment to appreciate Xehaqus in what may be one of its last weeks without being incest

Not that it would stop some fans.

 

[MoonRabbit]

KH3 still kills me. Saix and Axel still have these ridiculously intimate moments while speaking about about Subject X and my eyes couldn't roll harder.

It still makes me mad, lol. When I play Days or read the manga or the novels, there is not a single hint that that either Axel or Saix had a third party on their mind. Based on how the characters act, I got the impression that Isa was the one experimented on. He was branded with the sigil then forced to give up his heart and join the Organization. Lea most likely joined the Organization willingly. He couldn't bear to lose his best friend, so he sacrificed his heart and morality to get him back from Xemnas.

That's why Axel was so hurt when Saix didn't seem worried after he was almost annihilated in Castle Oblivion. That's why he began to grow distant from Saix and spend more time with Roxas and Xion. That's why Saix found it such a huge betrayal that Axel would prefer spending his time with a kid and a puppet, rather than focusing on their plan.

But nope, in KH3, Axel was really assassinating traitors all that time for the GIRL, not for Isa. Saix was so angry because Axel wasn't focused on saving the GIRL anymore. It's not like I was expecting Lea and Isa to be openly gay in KH3. But the way that girl was used to make their relationship seem less intimate than it really was...it was so infuriating.

 

[palizinhas]

Not that it would stop some fans.

I also wouldn't blame them, honestly. I don't think I'd be able to keep shipping it if they're brothers, but revealing something like this 12 years after the first game Eraqus was in is complete insanity. People who like the ship since that way back suddenly being told they're related will simply pretend that detail doesn't exist.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

It still makes me mad, lol. When I play Days or read the manga or the novels, there is not a single hint that that either Axel or Saix had a third party on their mind. Based on how the characters act, I got the impression that Isa was the one experimented on. He was branded with the sigil then forced to give up his heart and join the Organization. Lea most likely joined the Organization willingly. He couldn't bear to lose his best friend, so he sacrificed his heart and morality to get him back from Xemnas.

That's why Axel was so hurt when Saix didn't seem worried after he was almost annihilated in Castle Oblivion. That's why he began to grow distant from Saix and spend more time with Roxas and Xion. That's why Saix found it such a huge betrayal that Axel would prefer spending his time with a kid and a puppet, rather than focusing on their plan.

But nope, in KH3, Axel was really assassinating traitors all that time for the GIRL, not for Isa. Saix was so angry because Axel wasn't focused on saving the GIRL anymore. It's not like I was expecting Lea and Isa to be openly gay in KH3. But the way that girl was used to make their relationship seem less intimate than it really was...it was so infuriating.

That was my reading of the situation as well, and it makes sense because that was what it WAS until Nomura decided to change his mind. It’s annoying. I thought that it would have been Saix and Axel who were kept in some of the cells in the late days of the Apprentices’ experiments. And Saix would have gotten the worst of it.

I also wouldn't blame them, honestly. I don't think I'd be able to keep shipping it if they're brothers, but revealing something like this 12 years after the first game Eraqus was in is complete insanity. People who like the ship since that way back suddenly being told they're related will simply pretend that detail doesn't exist.

I wouldn’t either but I don’t blame fans either if they elected to ignore this information if it happens. It’s like how Kishimoto revealed that Sasuke and Naruto were the reincarnations of those two brother gods (along with Madara and Hashirama or whatever their names were) despite people having shipped them for years, and the series intentionally queerbaited people with that pair since the beginning.

It’s like, really? You think now is the time to suddenly say “oh btw they are distantly related”

Like? ?????? ?? Did these creators look at Leia and Luke and go “yeah I want that in my story. Unintentional incest ”

 

[Elysium]

That's why Axel was so hurt when Saix didn't seem worried after he was almost annihilated in Castle Oblivion. That's why he began to grow distant from Saix and spend more time with Roxas and Xion. That's why Saix found it such a huge betrayal that Axel would prefer spending his time with a kid and a puppet, rather than focusing on their plan.

But nope, in KH3, Axel was really assassinating traitors all that time for the GIRL, not for Isa. Saix was so angry because Axel wasn't focused on saving the GIRL anymore. It's not like I was expecting Lea and Isa to be openly gay in KH3. But the way that girl was used to make their relationship seem less intimate than it really was...it was so infuriating.

I don't think 3 wipes that away so much as it instead couches it all in a "we" (us three) instead to give SE / Nomura an out. Axel started off doing everything for "them" (only the three of them now rather than the two of them). Saix was angry Axel didn't care about them (the girl or him now) anymore.

That doesn't really surprise me because in some ways I've noticed LeaIsa are a great deal like SoRiku the more time goes by--which may explain why I liked the pairing--and Sora and Riku's relationship in 1 is similar to the situation 3 created where all Riku's extreme jealousy is diverted away with the explanation that it's, um, about Kairi--yeah, that's right, Kairi!--even though she's never around and even when she actually is onscreen Riku rarely shows much interest in her... Only that "girl excuse" is more obvious in Axel and Saix's case because it wasn't there to begin with, but forced in later.

I think the reason it was forced in later rather than there at the start was because the growth in relevance of Saix was something that happened unexpectedly, otherwise it probably would've been there to begin with (not only to divert the gay away, but also to make every relevant relationship into a trio as Nomura decided somewhere along the line). I doubt that Nomura began 2 thinking Saix would be redeemed or that he and Axel's relationship would evolve to the point it did pre-3 so much as he changed his plans over time. There was always a very high likelihood Saix would die in 3 to me. And that lines up with how the direction of Axel also changed a great deal over time, too.

 

[palizinhas]

I wouldn’t either but I don’t blame fans either if they elected to ignore this information if it happens. It’s like how Kishimoto revealed that Sasuke and Naruto were the reincarnations of those two brother gods (along with Madara and Hashirama or whatever their names were) despite people having shipped them for years, and the series intentionally queerbaited people with that pair since the beginning.

It’s like, really? You think now is the time to suddenly say “oh btw they are distantly related”

Like? ?????? ?? Did these creators look at Leia and Luke and go “yeah I want that in my story. Unintentional incest ”

More recently there was DuckTales 2017, but that was an example where the creator warned from the very beginning that the relationship was familial and Webby would NEVER date any of the triplets, people just shipped her with them anyway. And got "whoops we were shipping incest" as a bonus.

 

[MoonRabbit]

I thought that it would have been Saix and Axel who were kept in some of the cells in the late days of the Apprentices’ experiments. And Saix would have gotten the worst of it.

I went into KH3 100% expecting to learn about Lea and Isa's tragic backstory of being locked up in the castle and experimented on. The story honestly makes a hundred times more sense if that were the case.

I don't think 3 wipes that away so much as it instead couches it all in a "we" (us three) instead to give SE / Nomura an out. Axel started off doing everything for "them" (only the three of them now rather than the two of them). Saix was angry Axel didn't care about them (the girl or him now) anymore.

That doesn't really surprise me because in some ways I've noticed LeaIsa are a great deal like SoRiku the more time goes by--which may explain why I liked the pairing--and Sora and Riku's relationship in 1 is similar to the situation 3 created where all Riku's extreme jealousy is diverted away with the explanation that it's, um, about Kairi--yeah, that's right, Kairi!--even though she's never around and even when she actually is onscreen Riku rarely shows much interest in her... Only that "girl excuse" is more obvious in Axel and Saix's case because it wasn't there to begin with, but forced in later.

It doesn't even bother me so much that Lea and Isa met an imprisoned girl in the castle, became friends with her, then tried to become apprentices to save her. It's actually a cute idea. And it would have been very good characterization to help make Isa feel distinct from his Nobody self. Saix imprisoned Kairi, but what if Isa only wanted to free a girl and ended up being experimented on and Norted because of it? That kind of backstory would have made players FAR more sympathetic for both Isa and Lea.

My biggest problem was with the idea that Saix "sacrificed everything" for the girl. It's basically implying that Isa--a normal innocent teenage boy--willingly became a vessel like Braig (one of the most evil characters in the whole franchise). He gave himself that recusant's sigil scar, gave up his heart, joined a cult, and then happily did icky jobs for Xemnas...all to find that girl? That...doesn't make him more sympathetic. It's honestly creepy.

TBH, even when I first played KH1 when I was 14, I hated Riku's characterization. I loved his character design and his overall mature and cool personality. But I was very angry that the writers ruined him by making him so obsessed with Kairi. I was disgusted that that was his motivation to give his heart over to darkness. Kairi and Riku had zero positive interactions, so it made Riku seem creepy and stalkerish. I was so relieved that KH2 dropped the love triangle and focused more on Riku's friendship with Sora, which was a lot cuter and more wholesome. According to Nomura, Riku's actions were less about his feelings for Kairi and more about atonement. He felt responsible for Kairi losing her heart and that's why he was willing to go to such lengths. And I like that idea so much better.

I cannot wrap my head around the idea that Isa would give himself over to darkness, sacrifice his humanity, then join a cult...all for a girl he might have imagined. That's even worse writing than KH1 Riku!! Also, to have that motivation carry over to his Nobody self made even less sense. Saix was not Isa. Considering how cold and inhuman Saix as, he wouldn't give two craps about that girl. And Axel was not Lea, the naive cheerful kid anymore, either. I highly doubt either Saix or Axel cared about the girl as Nobodies. If anything, it's more in-character for both of them to despise her for ruining their lives. Most likely they had forgotten all about her after ten years. They didn't even know what she looked like.

I think the reason it was forced in later rather than there at the start was because the growth in relevance of Saix was something that happened unexpectedly, otherwise it probably would've been there to begin with (not only to divert the gay away, but also to make every relevant relationship into a trio as Nomura decided somewhere along the line). I doubt that Nomura began 2 thinking Saix would be redeemed or that he and Axel's relationship would evolve to the point it did pre-3 so much as he changed his plans over time. There was always a very high likelihood Saix would die in 3 to me. And that lines up with how the direction of Axel also changed a great deal over time, too.

Well, this is just my own personal speculation, so take it as you will. I agree that with the original KH2, there were no plans to redeem Saix. Even Axel was planned to stay dead. With KH2FM, however, Nomura had the general plot for the Dark Seeker Saga thought up. Saix was planned to be a possessed version of Isa and they were two completely different personalities, like Terra and Xemnas. In Days, that's what Saix's Mystery Gear was hinting at, as well as Axel's secret reports. The fact that Saix was Norted was a HUGE plot twist in DDD.

The end goal for Isa was always to be saved and then he would join the other heroes on the beach. The end goal of Lea's character arc was to summon a Keyblade and rescue him. And since Kairi would have been the girl Isa wanted to save, she would have been Lea's partner in the final battle. Narratively, it would have allowed both of them to settle the score with their pasts, just like everyone else got to do.

 

[palizinhas]

I mean, Isa and Lea joined with the Apprentices before becoming Nobodies, so they probably fell for the same "we'll be better without hearts" bull that the other Org members did.

We became Nobodies precisely to avoid the shackles of emotion. It was only later that we realized the scale of that loss: that some things simply cannot be done without a heart

 

[khkid]

Kanemaki is our only hope, then xD May she give us the good gay content.

KH3 still kills me. Saix and Axel still have these ridiculously intimate moments while speaking about about Subject X and my eyes couldn't roll harder. Why couldn't they have just been nosy, stupid teens? I really hope the Skuld (or whoever it is) reveal and their friendship makes up for this tomfoolery.

hey I write stories

 

[Violet Pluto]

*Snip*

To be totally fair, the reason they break into the Radiant Garden castle and why they look so determined to do so at the end of BBS was never explained. Also Isa says that he was dedicated to finding X, but he also just got really jealous once Lea just made new friends. While he has some anger towards Lea for not continuing on their mission, it's pretty explicit that he's more pissed that he feels like he was replaced in Lea's heart; and even worse is that he knows that isn't true but can't help feeling that way either. I'm pretty sure there's something there for a shipper.

*Snip*

The Naruto and Sasuke thing is so much more confusing than that. They aren't reincarnations, but instead inherited the chakra of those brothers, and are "reincarnations" in that they occupy the same archetype as Asura and Indra. Naruto is all about cycles so they are technically on brand, but it's still very odd. The key thing to knowing that they aren't reincarnations is that they would technically be reincarnations of Hashirama and Madara as well since they were also inheritors of the chakra of Asura and Indra, and none of the four are able to remember the past life (which is a really big reincarnation trope.)

 

[Finland]

Also Isa says that he was dedicated to finding X, but he also just got really jealous once Lea just made new friends. While he has some anger towards Lea for not continuing on their mission, it's pretty explicit that he's more pissed that he feels like he was replaced in Lea's heart; and even worse is that he knows that isn't true but can't help feeling that way either. I'm pretty sure there's something there for a shipper.

saïx' death in kh3 really drives home that fact, imo. despite the whole "i sacrificed everything for her, you left us both" babbling at the start, in the end saïx' feelings boil down to him being hurt, jealous and lonely without axel specifically. he admits that axel would never forget him, that he is aware of how much axel cares, but he is angry and in pain nonetheless. the addition of X definitely didn't take away all the feelings the two have for each other, which i am happy about. however, i also believe that X as a concept undermines the presumed commitments and motivations of the duo in a way that almost feels like a retcon (although it technically isn't one), and very conveniently takes the edge off the "gay implications".

...or i'm being too cynical, and it all really is about nomura loving groups of three too much, lmfao. we just have to hope that the yet-unveiled backstory doesn't butcher everything that has been built up so far.

 

[MoonRabbit]

Well, Lea and Isa were determined to sneak inside even before Xehanort became an apprentice and started the human experiments. Back in the original BBS, they were just two curious boys.

I agree that Saix's main source of rage was his jealousy over Axel making new friends and especially leaving the Organization. Saix felt completely abandoned and betrayed. But Axel making new friends and leaving wasn't the cause of the problems. Axel only "betrayed" Saix because of how much he had changed. No real explanation was given for WHY he changed in the first place. I guess KH3 wanted us to believe that Saix changed simply because he was more obsessed with Subject X than Axel was. But I think that is a very stupid explanation.

There was already a perfect explanation for his change in personality. He was Norted. How and why he became Norted was one of the lingering mysteries of the DSS. That should have been the main focus of the Lea/Isa subplot in KH3. Norting was made out to be a huge deal in DDD, and even Nomura's own interviews. But conveniently by the time of 3, that whole idea didn’t matter anymore.

we just have to hope that the yet-unveiled backstory doesn't butcher everything that has been built up so far.

I know. I really do hope their backstory is good. But I am really worried it'll just butcher their characters even further. I'm terrified there's gonna be a scene where Isa gives himself that scar so that he will never forget Subject X.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I'm terrified there's gonna be a scene where Isa gives himself that scar so that he will never forget Subject X.

Recusant’s Sigil? No, self-harm to add to the manpain

 

[Elysium]

the addition of X definitely didn't take away all the feelings the two have for each other, which i am happy about. however, i also believe that X as a concept undermines the presumed commitments and motivations of the duo in a way that almost feels like a retcon (although it technically isn't one), and very conveniently takes the edge off the "gay implications".

That's how I feel. Yeah, the mystery girl is a deliberate de-escalation of the relationship the characters had by Nomura, but it doesn't erase it all either. It merely made LeaIsa more in line with most slash ships by putting it in that whole "Well, you can interpret it that way....but you can also interpret it this other way" kind of copout. So while ire is deserved, imo, I don't think it neutralizes the ship either--nor do I think that was Nomura's intention. I believe he tries to keep the shipping community fired up with vagueness.

I think it worked in tandem with him wanting every relationship to be a trio though. If I'm being honest, I always thought they only met the mystery girl after they had already become test subjects and they were simply prisoners along with her. I've never thought the girl was Kairi and really hope that's not the case, but it could be. It would explain why they weirdly paired Axel up with Kairi in KH3 for training. They even gave them a scene together when normally Nomura pretends Kairi doesn't exist outside of intro and ending scenes.

On the plus side, if the Mystery Girl turns out to be Kairi, at least that means there's zero chance of the Mystery Girl infringing on LeaIsa considering she's so much younger than they are. Even with that aside, Sora is pretty much the only thing Kairi cares about and her only defining attribute really.

 

[MoonRabbit]

I've never thought the girl was Kairi and really hope that's not the case, but it could be. It would explain why they weirdly paired Axel up with Kairi in KH3 for training. They even gave them a scene together when normally Nomura pretends Kairi doesn't exist outside of intro and ending scenes.

On the plus side, if the Mystery Girl turns out to be Kairi, at least that means there's zero chance of the Mystery Girl infringing on LeaIsa considering she's so much younger than they are. Even with that aside, Sora is pretty much the only thing Kairi cares about and her only defining attribute really.

It's just my own speculation, so I have no proof, I just think the girl Isa wanted to rescue was originally going to be Kairi. After Nomura came up with the new KH4 story arc, he changed it to a time-traveling Dandelion girl (most likely Skuld). I don't think the mystery girl is Kairi anymore, so if you hate the idea, you probably don't have anything to worry about.

But if it had been Kairi, I would have enjoyed the story a lot more. She is far from my favorite character, but she was in desperate need of being more fleshed out, and I think she's more intereting than Skuld, at least. Exploring her backstory would have done wonders. Ven was Lea's "stray puppy" (wind and flame). Small!Kairi could have been Isa's (moon and the tides). It also creates an interesting parallel with KH2's story. Saix locked up Kairi, and Axel fought him to free her (and Pluto). It would have been a nice goal for Kairi to help Lea rescue Isa, the same way Isa wanted to rescue her when she was little. Much better than Union X sequel-baiting and Kairi having literally no purpose at the KG.

The girl was very particular—unique among people. They had not been able to create any Heartless using her heart.

Kairi was also experimented on. It would make sense why she would have been imprisoned in the Chamber of Repose if they tried to create Heartless out of her heart.

Nomura: I gave Namine the same face as Kairi. Also, in order to emphasise the 'fragile little girl' side of her, I made her outward appearance very pale, as though she might fade away any minute.

Kairi being the imprisoned girl would explain why Naminé--her shadow--was a "fragile little girl". And since the Chamber of Repose is a graveyard, it ties in with Naminé being a ghost living in the haunted mansion and having the afterlife association in KH3.

Sora (CoM): But one day, she was gone, just like that.

Naminé (CoM): I don't exist in anyone's heart. I never have existed anywhere.

Axel (KH3): One day she was just gone!

Saïx (KH3): I started to wonder if we’d imagined her. Maybe she never existed.

Plus, the way Subject X is described sounds just like...Naminé.

 

[MATGSY]

 

[palizinhas]

Would like to brag that my favorite ship has something no other KH ship can boast besides maybe Rokushi: An entire game about their relationship where they actually interact directly with each other for the huge majority of it

Xehaqus above all

 

[Clue.Less]

Speaking of Xehaqus, I'd like to share this gorgeous one-shot, written by an esteemed KHI member (@Dast ). If you felt like the Dark Road finale was a little lacking in Xehanort angsty monologues and emotional tension, here's 2,700 words to satisfy your needs ♡

The Locks between - A_True_Nobody - Kingdom Hearts (Video Games) [Archive of Our Own]

An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works

archiveofourown.org

This said, I headcanon that Xehaqus's first kiss happens not long after that last scene they have together in the finale. They both seemed to have deeper realizations.

And we don't get to see most of the months and years after that because it's just a lot of coupley stuff.

 

[LightxDarkness]

Xehanort and Eraqus are just friends not lovers.
Sora and Riku are just friends not lovers.
Roxas and Lea/Axel are just friends not lovers.
Lea and Isa are just friends not lovers.

This fanbase is a mess.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Xehanort and Eraqus are just friends not lovers.
Sora and Riku are just friends not lovers.
Roxas and Lea/Axel are just friends not lovers.
Lea and Isa are just friends not lovers.

This fanbase is a mess.

Okay but that’s what shipping is for lol

These aren’t real people. They are fictional characters. Getting hung up on stuff like this is silly.