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astertide

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I mean, Vanitas never technically had a body for all of BBS in the first place, so...
Wait, even though he never actually had a body, he took on Sora's appearance... plus some extra dark stuff. So did he previously share DNA with Sora? And if so, now that he's in a Replica body, does he still share DNA with Sora? He might still have some of Sora's genes as Replica bodies change depending on the heart in them... but that depends on whether they change on the inside as well as the outside. They did only technically say "appearance," after all, and that usually refers to what people can see...
 

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Don't call me dumb.

The DDD transfer shows her in the images because those are ROXAS' MEMORIES, not hers. Why did Sora say "I felt that pain" and not "I felt YOUR pain", if they were "handholding" so much for idiots like me?

I stand by what I believe that statement was about: Sora felt ROXAS' PAIN in the transfer in 3D and assumed that Namine was feeling like that as well, since she's in a similar situation. I mean, you didn't even need to know Roxas' pain to know that they didn't like being trapped in Sora/Kairi, given the way KH2 ended.
Nowhere in that post did I call you dumb. The execution of the scene was basically handholding the audience to a specific interpretation. It wasn't enough that Sora explained it, they showed flashbacks to further drive it home. That's what I was pointing out.

Getting into the nitty, gritty details of how it happened isn't entirely possible because a lot of the series doesn't dwell into the crumbs. Even in my original post, I clearly stated that Roxas and Naminè shared their pain as their fates are the same, they talked about that hurt in the prologue. By Roxas sharing his, he shared Naminè's automatically. Those memories are exactly those of the KHII tutorial. Not even Days is in there.

The problem here is you're making all these claims against her (and the pair) yet have no basis for them. Roxas has known Xion and Axel longer, so yes, he might care for them more.

But he also cares about Naminè, and she didn't get opt out of his mind like you keep stating due to Xion, and that has been proven to you already by me and pastel.

Attempting to dismiss, and this is in general, not just to you in case you take it personally, their bond and not acknowledge it isn't going to make that bond go away. If anything, depending on how things go in the future, it may be even be a disfavor to one's self.

I'm not saying Roxas doesn't care about Namine. I just think that he doesn't care about her as much as Xion and Axel. I mean, people want to comment about how Roxas shouldn't be on the beach having fun because Riku's there and they never had closure. Did Roxas ever get closure with Namine manipulating him and honestly giving him an extremely messed up existence? I know she was forced to do it and/or she was doing it "for Sora", but still... what she did to Roxas is incredibly messed up - erase your previous life (which was already short), replace it with fake memories, then watch you think you're living a normal life only to find out that you're going to die in 7 days. How can Roxas date Namine after that?
Where does it officially state, say, or confirm anywhere in the game, Ultimania, or interviews that Naminè did all of what you're accusing her of? It literally took her a year to fix memories (granted, due to complications, yet it would have still taken a while), and it took her at least three weeks to turn Sora into what she needed him to be. How is she to accomplish that in an hour? Or however long it took Riku to drag Roxas to the Twilight Mansion. There's this misguided blame towards her about what occurred because "memory powers it must be her" but that was never official and it doesn't make much sense because her powers don't work that quickly.

I'm pretty certain it was Diz that cloaked his memories with data when he turned Roxas into data itself when he transferred him to Data Twilight Town.

Furthermore, they already talked about how her perception was wrong in KHII.




EDIT: Dang it pastel, you have beaten me agaaaaaaaain. Cuuuuurses xD.
 
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Tartarus

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This seems random, but I nearly made a reply last page that was related to this, too, just didn’t go through with it: I really wish that Namine had been the main girl in 1 and Kairi was the girl in CoM… :/ I think I wouldn’t even mind any of the ships that would have come out of the Destiny Islands trio that way (be it Sora / Namine, Sora / Riku, Riku / Namine, or Sora / Riku / Namine). I’d still prefer SoRiku, but seeing Sora and Namine eating a paopu together wouldn’t make me gag. I kind of liked Sora / Namine in CoM even with the story as it is. I think she would’ve been a better main girl, jmo…

In a sense, I've always kind of thought of Roxas / Namine as a “good” version of Sora / Kairi. Part of me likes that she ended up in Twilight Town rather than Destiny Islands, but I guess in my mind I always tie her to Destiny Islands because of CoM. I can just picture the character sitting on the sand in her white dress, hunched over her notebook with the palm trees and everyone else playing games in the background. I think of her as a shy girl who doesn't really talk very much and sits in the corner. :p Except not a cynical Daria type, ha
 

astertide

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Part of me likes that she ended up in Twilight Town rather than Destiny Islands, but I guess in my mind I always tie her to Destiny Islands because of CoM.
Just saying, I don't think Naminé could've have been born on Destiny Islands as I read somewhere that Nobodies are always born in worlds of Nothingness, like The World That Never Was, Twilight Town or Castle Oblivion.

Also, was Naminé born in Twilight Town? I thought she was born in Castle Oblivion.
 

Absent

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You’re right about Nobodies being born in the Realm Between but I don’t think they were talking about their worlds of origin like that.
 

SweetYetSalty

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Wow! Namine just dominates shipping discussion. I don't know if I'm impressed or intimidated by it.

As for where Namine came from, didn't Saix state she came from Castle Oblivion?
 

pastel.goblin

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I'm pretty sure Tartarus was referring to Naminé post KH3. A lot of people assume she'd live in the Destiny Islands, but it's implied and then confirmed in Xion's character file that she's in Twilight Town
 

astertide

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I'm pretty sure Tartarus was referring to Naminé post KH3. A lot of people assume she'd live in the Destiny Islands, but it's implied and then confirmed in Xion's character file that she's in Twilight Town
Oh. Huh.

Naminé: Oh, yeah. I remember this place.
Naminé: The second-worst place of my life where I first met that girl I kind-of killed and that boy I kind-of helped to kill.
Naminé: There's no place like home.
 

*TwilightNight*

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If he cared so much about Namine, why didn't Roxas even ask about her in KH3 or ReMIND? Roxas came back to save who? Xion (and Axel). He didn't even wonder whether Namine was back since he got a body. He cried and got emotional with Xion and Axel.

Xion was more in the forefront of being "saved" than Namine, which we also see in KH3D. They literally swap out Namine for Xion in KH3D. Even Data-Namine brings up how Xion should be saved in Coded.
The interrelationships in KHIII were bare and nonexistent, so it's an overall fault of the writing. The trio were thick black holes. Nonetheless, Roxas still missed her and got emotionally triggered when Sora reached the Twilight Town mansion, and he visually flashed over him. Sora sighed sadly afterwards when it was over.

But this isn't just to do with KHIII. You claimed, and I quote, that Roxas didn't care about her "post-KH2" and completely forgot about her. That is 100% false.

And what does saving her have to do with Roxas?

...

What does it have to do with Roxas?

The theme of Coded and DDD was that Sora was to save all these people. It coincided with Blank Points. DDD is traveling into Sora's dream world. Not Kairi's. The fact that Naminè appeared at all was surprising, but it was probably due to Xion because of the whole memory reflection effect.

And Coded happened because Naminè was the head bitch in charge of that installment. The whole point of that game is that Naminè did something to Jiminy's Journal to inform Sora of all the people he had to save, not just Xion.

In the end, there is no evidence of what you keep going on about.

Oh. Huh.

Naminé: Oh, yeah. I remember this place.
Naminé: The second-worst place of my life where I first met that girl I kind-of killed and that boy I kind-of helped to kill.
Naminé: There's no place like home.
Naminè didn't do anything. She helped Roxas and interfered in Diz's plan and Xion made the decision for herself, lest we forget that Naminè was surprised she opted to return to Sora in Days. And wasn't going to stop her at all from leaving.

She's fine. Next.

Then again, the girl might still feel guilty cause that's just...how she is. Either way, she's chilling there.
 
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astertide

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Naminè didn't do anything. She helped Roxas and interfered in Diz's plan and Xion made the decision for herself, lest we forget that Naminè was surprised she opted to return to Sora in Days. And wasn't going to stop her at all from leaving.

She's fine. Next.

Then again, the girl might still feel guilty cause that's just...how she is. Either way, she's chilling there.

Oof. Yeah, Naminé has self-worth some issues :(

I did say... kind-of... because she did have a hand in it, even though she really regretted it.
But of course, I don't blame her at all. She was manipulated, if not forced into doing what DiZ wanted her to.
 

Idreamaboutcats

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Haaaaah…

Why, Spock, whyyy?!

Okay, let’s just clear up any misunderstandings first, so we can have a nice and neat discussion before this thread is blown to smithereens.

  • Naminé came to be in Castle Oblivion. She’s probably the only Nobody to do so (Xion and Riku Replica don’t count; they were made there, not poof into existence there).
  • She does have a connection to Roxas, and as much as they are their own people now, it’s undeniable that the foundation of their ties are Sora and Kairi. That’s not a bad thing, it just is what it is, but other than that, it was mostly a clean slate.

We may as well make “Naminé: The Thread” now. To placate the shippers, might as well include “Xion: The Thread” too.

Back to topic, I’m surprised no AkuRoku shippers showed up; then again that age gap just screams of…yeah…
 

pastel.goblin

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it’s undeniable that the foundation of their ties are Sora and Kairi
Ehhh not going to argue over this, just going to say I personally disagree and leave it at that. Unless you mean the reason they met was due to Sora and kinda Kairi and the whole situation?

I’m surprised no AkuRoku shippers showed up
Wait, there's still akuroku shippers? Yikes.
 

astertide

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The foundation of their connection is Sora and Kairi.

If they fall in love, the foundation of their love, won't be.

Like the Sea-Salt Trio and the Recusant's Sigil. It's the foundation of the bond, but not the whole reason for it.
 

Tartarus

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Nobody had any misunderstanding about where Namine came to be at. I was referring to where she is post-KH3.
 

pastel.goblin

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The foundation of their connection is Sora and Kairi.

If they fall in love, the foundation of their love, won't be.

Like the Sea-Salt Trio and the Recusant's Sigil. It's the foundation of the bond, but not the whole reason for it.
Sorry, I just get tired of "the only reason to ship them is because of Sora and Kairi"
 

Idreamaboutcats

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The foundation of their connection is Sora and Kairi.

If they fall in love, the foundation of their love, won't be.

Like the Sea-Salt Trio and the Recusant's Sigil. It's the foundation of the bond, but not the whole reason for it.
This is what I meant. I should’ve clarified so pastel wouldn’t misunderstand.
Nobody had any misunderstanding about where Namine came to be at. I was referring to where she is post-KH3.
Oh…there are some implications where she could be.
 

*TwilightNight*

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Oof. Yeah, Naminé has self-worth some issues :(

I did say... kind-of... because she did have a hand in it, even though she really regretted it.
But of course, I don't blame her at all. She was manipulated, if not forced into doing what DiZ wanted her to.
If Nomura was smart, it would be consistent if Naminè wasn't feeling completely guiltless still. She's in Twilight Town but acts distant and keeps making excuses not to hang out. Like she wants to be there with them yet wonders if she deserves it.

What I feel about Naminè is that she's very well developed. She's one of the only few characters that went from point A in personality to point B. Went from an utter, spineless doormat to a blooming confident, young woman. The issue is that there's something...incomplete. I don't know if it's because her growth expanded around multiple games aside from her introductory one [CoM] or if it's because she doesn't have a primary arc. Hers is more secondary.

I think there's more left to do with her really.

But the only thing she's at fault of with Roxas and Xion is what she was coerced to do in Castle Oblivion in the first place. That one single act caused plenty consequences and she became stuck between a rock and a hard place. All the Soras cannot coexist.

She definitely tried to help Roxas and Xion however. Roxas sought answers. Naminè simply gave them because he was entitled to his truth. Her shit self-esteem and Diz breathing down her back had her view her existence as nothing and that sort of dripped into believing the best thing to do to survive is to return to her original self, yet she didn't force these guys to do anything. She didn't mess with Roxas' memories. I'm pretty sure if it was up to her, she would leave it in their hands even if it meant Sora might not wake up in time. She certainly risked it anyway by hacking into Diz's data and enlightening Roxas of what was going on.

There's no reason to villainize her like certain people here are doing.




------------------


I'm still loving the fact that Naminè punted Roxas off of the current main topic, lol.
 
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Idreamaboutcats

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Yeah we definitely need “Naminé: The Thread” now.

I think the curiosity about her stems from how she’s the second most unknown element in the game, beaten only by the Macguffin known as Kingdom Hearts.
 

*TwilightNight*

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Yeah we definitely need “Naminé: The Thread” now.

I think the curiosity about her stems from how she’s the second most unknown element in the game, beaten only by the Macguffin known as Kingdom Hearts.
Hey, I'm still technically talking about RokuNami :p.
 

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They do not go against the message that Nobodies are their own people. Like, you are free to attack them on every angle if that's what you want, but let's not go with disproven, false arguments. They act nothing like Sora and Kairi, and the reason for their bond has nothing to do with Sora and Kairi.
Look, you're one of the better Rokunami shippers for not thinking they're instantly in love by the end of KH2 alone, but as they've shared nothing noteworthy onward from KH2, that's what I have to go on. And in KH2, the need for nobodies to rejoin with their somebodies are constant, preventing them from having their own true identity. Roxas and Namine being romantically together reinforces the lack of their own true self and limits them. If they had more development together or nobody lore was written a little differently, it'd be a different case. But that's how it is. Do Roxas and Namine act differently from Sora and Kairi? Duh. Do their interactions give them enough breathing space, preventing them from being trapped in the roles of Sora and Kairi if they to hypothetically get together? In my opinion, no.

Also, it's odd that you ship Namiku, who have very limited interactions, their scenes consist of business meetings about Sora's progress, Riku did not mention her and neither was she a priority for him in the entirety of KHIII until Riku Replica tasked him to keeping his death wish, allowed Diz to mistreat her, and Riku even manhandled her himself. But somehow Roxas and Naminè's interactions about helping him and finding solace together due to their similar fates has no genuineness. It befuddles me.
I've never said I want Namiku to be canon. I've stated this repeatedly, but apparently it needs echoing again. I'm an absolute hipster when it comes to this ship. I didn't start shipping it after KH3, I've harboured tons of headcanons, fanfics and feelings around it several years before. Heck, the fact that I'm one of the only people left who still refers to them by their actual ship name is evidence of that. Do Riku and Namine share many noteworthy interactions preceding KH3? No. My thoughts and feelings towards them hinder entirely around potential rather than what's canon and I've never pretended otherwise. I even stated before I don't mind Rokunami as a concept, but as it is in canon, I hate it.

I've also mentioned before (directly towards you, I believe) that I absolutely roll my eyes at everything to do with Repliku, because it's so incredibly obvious that Namine does not share any kind of connection with him whatsoever. My eyes only rolled further into the back of skull at Tetsuya's interview. I discard KH3's character writing as a whole, because it's worthless.

One scene. What else do they have that's good?

The issue I have with the user's opinion is that they use Roxas and Naminè not interacting enough as a deterrent, but then ships RikuNami whose interactions are hardly worth counting,
Assume less about me when making such statements, pls.
 
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