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[*TwilightNight*]

I also support Naminé x Getting The Love and Attention she deserves in canon.

Nomura doesn't like that ship :c

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

I feel like I needed to say something to correct a couple of misconceptions.

Though in reality, identical twins are always the same sex because, again, they originate from the same zygote.

That’s not exactly true. Opposite sex identical twins do exist, albeit veeery rarely. More often than not though, the girl has a chromosomal defect (i.e. Turner Syndrome), or if really very lucky, is normal because the sperm had two chromosomes instead of one. There’s also the possibility the ova splits into two and then fertilized (i.e. Polar twins).

self-cest

So, narcissism?

(Wall of Text)

I think the novel said that Naminé actually thought of their circumstances of their shared origin as being like twins. Don’t quote me on that though, because I only heard and read about it, not actually read it (Kanemaki still sucked as a writer).

However, I will agree that Naminé’s true nature is highly unusual and she’s far more powerful than her presence lets on. Even her medals and cards are OP at the time of their introduction, dare I say, on par with Kairi and Xion, if not better (for any DR players, if you’re not aware, the new Naminé card will be the first ever Light-based magic card, and has a Cure sub-ability, so don’t pull for Cloud or Sephiroth, while Roxas is water-based physical with Strength up, what the hell?).

Relax, you can take satisfaction in the fact that regardless of Roxas or not, Naminé is an incredibly strong character, in terms of development and sheer power. The rest is really just bad writing.

I did not make the Elsa-Anna Kairi-Naminé analogy until you mentioned it.

 

[Ink Ribbon]

I honestly just appreciate the fact that KH focuses on building strong friendships over just pairing everyone up. Since most of the cast are kids, I'd rather just see them grow as individuals first and then pair off (if at all) once they are adults. As far as pairings (maybe not necessarily as sexual partners), I do like the sass of Lauriam/Elrena and the mystery between Luxord/Xigbar. Since I'm not really sure where the story is headed for any of these characters, I just enjoy the dynamic they build off of each other.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

I love how everyone just had a free biology class in a KH forum.

So, narcissism?

Depends how one sees Xion's personal perception of that particular line.

I think the novel said that Naminé actually thought of their circumstances of their shared origin as being like twins. Don’t quote me on that though, because I only heard and read about it, not actually read it (Kanemaki still sucked as a writer).

Keyword: like twins. It's a comparison, but she's not stating they are twins or she thinks they are twins. They were both created at the same time because as Sora's Heart left his, so did Kairi's. But they aren't biologically related and are two separate beings. That's what I was getting at. And at the same time, Kanemaki also wrote in the KHII novel that Roxas "stood close to Naminè as if he wanted to cling to her for an instant", so I would like to get a good grasp of her mindset if she meant it literally.

But I take the novels with a grain of salt. We have to keep in mind that Kanemaki is allowed the freedom to interpret a character's thoughts as she wishes and Nomura allows her to because she has a good grip on the characters' voices. Just like Shiro Amano has his own interpretations in his manga. The games will always take precedence to me. It's why I have not pulled anything from the novel. If Nomura feels like it, he could forsake whatever Kanemaki expressed in her books...if he's even aware of every facet of it, that is. I will use canon game examples, quotes, and thoughts. No more than that.

Plus, if the novels are any indication...

Riku and Sora are very, very gay.

However, I will agree that Naminé’s true nature is highly unusual and she’s far more powerful than her presence lets on. Even her medals and cards are OP at the time of their introduction, dare I say, on par with Kairi and Xion, if not better (for any DR players, if you’re not aware, the new Naminé card will be the first ever Light-based magic card, and has a Cure sub-ability, so don’t pull for Cloud or Sephiroth, while Roxas is water-based physical with Strength up, what the hell?).

Relax, you can take satisfaction in the fact that regardless of Roxas or not, Naminé is an incredibly strong character, in terms of development and sheer power. The rest is really just bad writing.

It feels like it's trying to compensate for what was lacking. Which is great, but the stunt pulled on her in KHIII by having her not interact with anyone in the core cast other than Sora was not only a missed opportunity, it isolates her even more from the rest and makes her presence feel lacking automatically no matter if she turned the tides of a war. The one time we speak to her in base KHIII was missable, optional, and body-less. Doesn't help that she didn't get placed in the intro either.

But yeah, I've seen Roxas not get his dues on the KHUx events. Very weird. Those pairs of cards with him and Naminè would have been power couple (or not couple? You get what I mean) status if he had the same sort of strength there.

I did not make the Elsa-Anna Kairi-Naminé analogy until you mentioned it.

I had hopes for them. The start of KHIII bamboozled me, le sigh.

But it fits no?

You would think Nomura would take example with how big Frozen is yet...

 

[LBJENmariposa]

I don't think Roxas x Xion is incest or selfcest because Roxas is Sora's body while Xion is Sora's memories

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Nobody is anybody's body anymore because they all have replica bodies, so they are their own people with their own non-natural bodies.

 

[LBJENmariposa]

If anything... Roxas and Naminé are like half-siblings that happen to be born on the same day.
Roxas = Sora's body and Ventus' heart
Naminé = Sora's body and Kairi's heart

I treat them like siblings, no offence... I just feel that they have more of a sibling bond... Especially since they haven't really interacted with each other much, and when they did, they were under... not the best circumstances.

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

And at the same time, Kanemaki also wrote in the KHII novel that Roxas "stood close to Naminè as if he wanted to cling to her for an instant", so I would like to get a good grasp of her mindset if she meant it literally.

I’ll take that with a grain of salt if that were the case. At that time, Roxas was driven to a corner so he might be clinging to a support line out of desperation, in this case, Naminé. Forgive me for playing devil’s advocate, I just want to approach shipping with caution.

Riku and Sora are very, very gay.

Everyone wishes that, but honestly I think it’s a mix of body language and culture not translating well, and Kanemaki probably being a rotten yaoi fangirl.

But yeah, I've seen Roxas not get his dues on the KHUx events. Very weird. Those pairs of cards with him and Naminè would have been power couple (or not couple? You get what I mean) status if he had the same sort of strength there.

The power couple thing might be a step in that direction, but honestly it’s more likely Roxas is there because Axel was already released, and soon they’re about to also release some Xion card to complete the trio.

You would think Nomura would take example with how big Frozen is yet...

Tell me about it! Frozen got really big though, so big that Elsa and Anna got booted off the Disney Princess line to become their own thing. Which I think is a shame because the franchise has a long history while Frozen will probably be forgotten in 20 years tops without the “Princess Mythology” attached to the sisters.

I don't think Roxas x Xion is incest or selfcest because Roxas is Sora's body while Xion is Sora's memories

…

Uhhh…

Nobody is anybody's body anymore because they all have replica bodies, so they are their own people with their own non-natural bodies.

This!

 

[*TwilightNight*]

I’ll take that with a grain of salt if that were the case. At that time, Roxas was driven to a corner so he might be clinging to a support line out of desperation, in this case, Naminé. Forgive me for playing devil’s advocate, I just want to approach shipping with caution.

Keep in mind we're talking about the TWTNW scene where Roxas and Naminè pop out of their respective selves and converse about the rather confusing "I see myself the way you remember me" deal. Something I didn't get until later. This particular part is when he makes the movement to stand beside her and that's how Kanemaki describes his feeling for a moment. There's no desperation there -- they both accepted their fates and were holding to a silver lining that they ain't alone.

As much as a bone this is though, I stick by game canon only, so it doesn't matter in the long run. I just brought it up cause of the reply to me.

Everyone wishes that, but honestly I think it’s a mix of body language and culture not translating well, and Kanemaki probably being a rotten yaoi fangirl.

Exactly what I mean. She has the freedom to do that.

The power couple thing might be a step in that direction, but honestly it’s more likely Roxas is there because Axel was already released, and soon they’re about to also release some Xion card to complete the trio.

If that's true, then they would have released his with Xion instead of Naminè (who's not a fighter or part of a trio). It also would've coincided well with the iRAX medals for the anniversary. Somehow, though, they chose this pair up and had her be the stronger one. Naminè would've been the one that sensibly should've gotten the solo later on.

Especially since she's like, lol, the better one of the two. You go get your rights girl.

Tell me about it! Frozen got really big though, so big that Elsa and Anna got booted off the Disney Princess line to become their own thing. Which I think is a shame because the franchise has a long history while Frozen will probably be forgotten in 20 years tops without the “Princess Mythology” attached to the sisters.

Only time will tell.

That's besides the point though. Nomura is working to make up for his horrible treatment of Kairi with MoM, getting her more involved. But the crux of her issue is that her character is basically Sora, Sora, Sora. Instead of working to get back Naminè and see a reunion with her, they had her go on this pseudo-date with Sora hopping around places. Fine I guess but...the problem persists.

…

Uhhh…

My reaction as well so I chose not to engage. To each their own.

 

[Sign]

I would not take UX/DR stats and release schedules as an indication or proof of... anything really, let alone the dev team secretly showing their support for a ship.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I would not take UX/DR stats and release schedules as an indication or proof of... anything really, let alone the dev team secretly showing their support for a ship.

If that were the case, SoKai, SoRiku, MickeyRiku, and like 500 other combos would be canon by now.

 

[gulava]

If anything... Roxas and Naminé are like half-siblings that happen to be born on the same day.
Roxas = Sora's body and Ventus' heart
Naminé = Sora's body and Kairi's heart

a nobody is a a body without its heart. you can't split a body in half or share it with anyone even by kh logic. roxas had sora's body the entire time in CoM/Days and this was why he had to go back to sora and also the reason why he fainted when entered castle oblivion (according to nomura, he got too close to his real selves) whereas namine coexisted normally with sora in CoM and didn't faint or started fading out of existence. namine doesn't have any part or inch of sora in her. she doesn't even have a body and she has been described be even less than a nobody, a non-being or a ghost. moreover, she has been stated to be only kairi's nobody/shadow in every ultimania and interview with no mention or indication of her having any type of sora-ness in her. we even see her in kh2 going back to kairi, not sora.
I have seen people spreading this misinformation for years and I wonder where they got this from lol. can we stop trying to make every character sora? we have enough soras as it is.

EDIT: come to think of it, I don't think namine's birth has been properly explained in the series. everything we know about her brith is either from secret reports or ultimania.

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

Keep in mind we're talking about the TWTNW scene where Roxas and Naminè pop out of their respective selves and converse about the rather confusing "I see myself the way you remember me" deal. Something I didn't get until later. This particular part is when he makes the movement to stand beside her and that's how Kanemaki describes his feeling for a moment. There's no desperation there -- they both accepted their fates and were holding to a silver lining that they ain't alone.

Ah, I thought it was the prologue scene when he was still in Data Twilight Town. I did say I’ve never read the novels except chi.

Especially since she's like, lol, the better one of the two. You go get your rights girl.

I can’t help but wonder if they’ll do an Illustrated Naminé medal since almost all the trios were released bar Mickey-Donald-Goofy.

I would not take UX/DR stats and release schedules as an indication or proof of... anything really, let alone the dev team secretly showing their support for a ship.

No, I mean, I get that. I didn’t intend to conflate them together, rather just assuaging that Naminé as a character is a lot stronger than what was let on that even her medals (Mirror, one of the first upright copies, turns single guilts into multiple, and recently that buff medal, and now her card that looks like a Key Scene than a normal card) blow Kairi and Xion out of the water (heh). The card pair with Roxas was sheer coincidence. Although I do see that steering the conversation towards one character detracts the thread from its intended purpose: shipping.

So, yea, SoKai FTW and all that.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Ah, I thought it was the prologue scene when he was still in Data Twilight Town. I did say I’ve never read the novels except chi.

I don't read them either. I just know this stuff anyway cause people flaunt and I see it, lol. Twitter alone would list out every event and section that has SoRiku evidence.

I can’t help but wonder if they’ll do an Illustrated Naminé medal since almost all the trios were released bar Mickey-Donald-Goofy.

Bet you anything she'll be the last one released, if at all. But she has to be better than her own meta breaking medal, otherwise, what's the point.

EDIT: come to think of it, I don't think namine's birth has been properly explained in the series. everything we know about her brith is either from secret reports or ultimania.

A lot of things are explained in Secret Reports, Ultimania, and miscellaneous interviews. This should not be the case for a series by the way.

 

[gulava]

A lot of things are explained in Secret Reports, Ultimania, and miscellaneous interviews. This should not be the case for a series by the way.

roxas and xion got days and vanitas kept hinting about his origin in bbs/kh3. kairi is finally getting her backstory fleshed out *cough*after18years*cough* so maybe namine will get something...

 

[pastel.goblin]

I have seen people spreading this misinformation for years and I wonder where they got this from lol.

It seems to just be a way for people who don't like the ship to discredit it. It only gets brought up when shipping is concerned, I mostly see it tossed around in Rokunami vs Rokushi debates, it's just tiresome. If you see them as having more of a sibling dynamic that's totally fine, but to say they're literally twins isn't true.

 

[Clue.Less]

Nobody is anybody's body anymore because they all have replica bodies, so they are their own people with their own non-natural bodies.

Famous KH-fandom quotes Just beautiful.

 

[Noivern]

Nobody is anybody's body anymore because they all have replica bodies, so they are their own people with their own non-natural bodies.

This, thank you.

I feel like people spend waaaay too much time thinking of ways to categorize the characters in terms that make sense for our world when they are fictional beings made with literal magic.

It doesn't really matter how the Nobodies/Replica's came to be as they are all their own beings now with their very own bodies and hearts, and are aknowledged as such by the rest of the cast.

While we face the issue of "same faces" going around, this is still an anime game where everyone kind of has a very similar face anyways. Give Xion a haircut and she can totally look like someone else entirely.

As long as it doesn't cross into some very specific problematic stuff akin to pedophilia, I'm fine with the "selfcest" even If I don't really partake on it.

Hell, Orphan Black is a series that exists with amazing writing and it's literally about this specific matter.

 

[gulava]

It seems to just be a way for people who don't like the ship to discredit it. It only gets brought up when shipping is concerned, I mostly see it tossed around in Rokunami vs Rokushi debates, it's just tiresome. If you see them as having more of a sibling dynamic that's totally fine, but to say they're literally twins isn't true.

I wish people would stop twisting canon facts to fit their preferred narrative

 

[AdrianXXII]

Nomura doesn't like that ship :c

To be fair I think he generally doesn't like females shipped with " Getting The Love and Attention she deserves in canon", potential exception being Aqua.

That's besides the point though. Nomura is working to make up for his horrible treatment of Kairi with MoM, getting her more involved. But the crux of her issue is that her character is basically Sora, Sora, Sora. Instead of working to get back Naminè and see a reunion with her, they had her go on this pseudo-date with Sora hopping around places. Fine I guess but...the problem persists.

Yeah, the Kairi wants to save Naminé is probably the plotline they dropped that I was most saddened by. Kairi finally had a goal in mind that didn't involve Sora and it was ignored.

I honestly want those two to become close like sisters, feel they could both benefit from each other. I guess Naminé and Kairi would be a pairing I'd friend-Ship.