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Official Shipping Discussion | ships ahoy | rarepairs



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Idreamaboutcats

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Holy...

*sigh*

I feel like it's indirectly my fault and that I probably egged all this on unconsciously. I guess my shipping days are not as far behind as I thought (still won't confess who among the pairs with Roxas I shipped though).

Right, let me loosen up my knuckles and take a crack at this.

Cultural difference, I guess? I shrug off things like that, since it's kind of a given in that environment. Actually, as far as I'm aware, there's very few game developers from Japan that are married, right? Nomura-san himself isn't married and has a cat for company, but can anyone else confirm his civil status for me?

The UX thing is weird, yeah. Kairi and Xion basically give off the same buffs except opposite alignments, at least, until recently when Xion also became upright. Naminé's medals have been independent of Kairi's guilt abilities unlike Xion, and on their own are quite powerful. I listed down their abilities and how even her Tier 3 medal is formidable back in the day, but like Sign said, I wouldn't take it as proof of anything. It's probably a coincidence. Same goes for her DR card too, though I admit I'm confused why Roxas is water-based than Light-based. What happened to Demyx?

(Debunking rikunami comment)
Those and the ultimania are all good points. Perhaps the only good thing I can remember he did for her (not taking Riku Replica into account) was taking her away in safety and delivering her to Axel when DiZ wanted to get rid of her after Sora woke up, oh and, fulfilling his replica's wishes and providing a body for her too, of course. Honestly though, since this is a shipping thread, let them have at it, canon or not. It certainly can't be worse than, say, the very subtle flirtation going on between Sora and some of the other princesses though clearly Kairi's his "most precious memory."

i will be disappointed if her name doesn't have a celestial motif.
It sure keeps the consistency though, but then again, Nomura is very salty. I wouldn't put it past him to name the girl "Hoshi" or "Sekai" out of spite.

(insert the rest of the Naminé mistreatment rant here)
I agree with what @pastel.goblin says, at least, about the picking up part. Riku's connection to her was flimsier. Then again, Roxas has no experience driving a gummiship, and I doubt his emo-ness would get a spaceship that runs on smiles very far.

Yeah, there's definitely the need of a new thread...or at least a character fanclub section in the forums, where we could rant and rave about the character we like.
 

LoneFox

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The number of people going on about Rikunami being canon still baffles me. Ship them if you want, there's potential there, but they're just not canon, and would need a heck of a lot more development together if they're legit going to be a thing.
Apparently, in the Japanese version of the game, Riku Replica's last words are "Take care of her", which is exactly same as what Riku himself said to Sora at the end of KH1 when he gave up pursuing a romantic relationship with Kairi. In the English version, it is translated as "Good luck". As if lifeboats had something to do with sinking ships... 🤔

So, Nomura is giving a different message to the Japanese audience than us Westerners. What do you think, why is that? I do have some kind of idea about it, but I'm not entirely happy with it, and want to see if others come to the same conclusion without me posting it.

As for the ship itself, I think it's best to consider it to have the same status as Ephemer/Skuld and Lauriam/Elrena: not official (yet), but definitely strongly hinted by the canon.
 

Idreamaboutcats

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lifeboats
Argh! I'm allergic to that word after the official team screwed it all up. God, I wish I could take a carrot and shove it down the mouth of the idiot who decided "lifeboat" is a fitting word. It's not a crime to use religious references, people, especially since, ya know, the χ-blade is freaking modeled after St. Peter's Keys of Heaven. Why are they being overtly touchy now? (Rant over)

I do have some kind of idea about it, but I'm not entirely happy with it, and want to see if others come to the same conclusion without me posting it.
Do tell, I'm curious now.
 

Noivern

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Apparently, in the Japanese version of the game, Riku Replica's last words are "Take care of her", which is exactly same as what Riku himself said to Sora at the end of KH1 when he gave up pursuing a romantic relationship with Kairi. In the English version, it is translated as "Good luck". As if lifeboats had something to do with sinking ships... 🤔

So, Nomura is giving a different message to the Japanese audience than us Westerners. What do you think, why is that? I do have some kind of idea about it, but I'm not entirely happy with it, and want to see if others come to the same conclusion without me posting it.

As for the ship itself, I think it's best to consider it to have the same status as Ephemer/Skuld and Lauriam/Elrena: not official (yet), but definitely strongly hinted by the canon.
It's not strongly hinted at all. Repliku had a thing with Naminé for very obvious reasons, he is the one who actually met and engaged with Naminé, so it makes sense that he asks for his "somebody" to take care of her in his place. Repliku and Riku are not the same person.

This is not saying that future games won't develop those two, but all the games so far did nothing for them.
 

gulava

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It sure keeps the consistency though, but then again, Nomura is very salty. I wouldn't put it past him to name the girl "Hoshi" or "Sekai" out of spite.
seiya (星夜/せいや) sounds better! i like how it sounds and it fits kh more.


So, Nomura is giving a different message to the Japanese audience than us Westerners. What do you think, why is that? I do have some kind of idea about it, but I'm not entirely happy with it, and want to see if others come to the same conclusion without me posting it.
I don't think it has any deep meaning behind it and as a matter of fact, nomura is too busy to oversee and instruct SENA (or the novels or the manga). it's not the first time english localization digressed from the japanese text lol and almost every kh game had mistranslation issues, people are simply more aware of it now because it's cool to nitpick on kh3.
 

Idreamaboutcats

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Well, Kairi can write in Latin letters, and in English, and the Scala script follows English diction and structure, apparently...that's about the connection I could make.
 

pastel.goblin

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Apparently, in the Japanese version of the game, Riku Replica's last words are "Take care of her", which is exactly same as what Riku himself said to Sora at the end of KH1 when he gave up pursuing a romantic relationship with Kairi. In the English version, it is translated as "Good luck". As if lifeboats had something to do with sinking ships... 🤔

So, Nomura is giving a different message to the Japanese audience than us Westerners. What do you think, why is that? I do have some kind of idea about it, but I'm not entirely happy with it, and want to see if others come to the same conclusion without me posting it.
Ehhh there's a case for Riku not really having romantic intentions with Kairi in KH1. He actually gave a damn about her in KH1, but personally it always seemed more like he was playing around and teasing Sora for his obvious crush on her. I think the difference in how he was with her in KH1 (actually interacting with her and seeming like a friend) compared to later games (barely even acknowledging her existence) could make it seem like he's moved on from a crush haha. But also it was in the Ultimania that Nomura debunked Rikunami and confirmed the end was for Repliku's benefit. Ultimania's aren't for us westerners and like @gulava said I doubt Nomura personally oversees the translations to give us different meanings to the Japanese audience aha. There's also the fact that Sora already had a crush on Kairi, whereas Riku has never shown romantic interest in Naminé. I know there's some who think Riku "inherited" Repliku's feelings for Naminé but... yikes. Double yikes. If that were true it'd actually make me hate the ship aha. (Also just to be clear I don't dislike Rikunami, only the way people are claiming it's canon. Ship and let ship imo lol) As for your theory for why Nomura would give Western and Japanese different meanings, I'm honestly not sure?

As for the ship itself, I think it's best to consider it to have the same status as Ephemer/Skuld and Lauriam/Elrena: not official (yet), but definitely strongly hinted by the canon.
Agree to disagree there aha. I'd honestly argue there's more canon hints towards Rokunami (but I'm biased 🤣 )
 

*TwilightNight*

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I know there's some who think Riku "inherited" Repliku's feelings for Naminé but... yikes. Double yikes.
...you can't be serious. Those wouldn't even be Riku's genuine feelings, ones that he developed over time, and it completely goes against the concept of the entire series. So they rather buy that than just accept that he hasn't shown romantic interest for her in 8+ games? Like at least ship her with Repliku...

Whatever it takes to get Naminè out of the way I guess.

Also, aside from the false belief that they spent a year together, we cannot forget that Riku went along with Diz's abuse [until it got as far as erasing her] and manhandled Naminè himself in KHII. The dialogue on their business meeting in Days?

Naminè: "So we meet again. "
Riku: [straight to the point] "You made me a promise."

Like, guys, they are not best bosom buddies here. Not to say that they aren't friends and whatnot, but those are not things you do to your supposed SO.

I would buy RikuShi more than RikuNami to be honest, because other than their rocky first meeting, they came to understand one another, discussed how they both desired to be with their specific friends, and Riku gave her an entire year to make up her mind while hiding her from the Org. Xion disappeared for days with him.

Mind, I prefer him single and he doesn't have a love interest nor any romantic build up with anyone. This whole sentiment of forcing him to whatever available female is, frankly, dumb. If I had to pick though, he has more going on with Xion based on the games.
 
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Noivern

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Honestly, I'm completely fine with crackships, sideships and so on. I go with them myself.

What I don't really like is when, instead of actually building off of headcanons and canonicity, people twist what was said and show in the franchise to validate their ship.

I've also started to grow a certain dislike for the KH fandom because half doesn't seem to aknowledge the characters as individuals past KH3, lol.

Obviously their connections made them into who they are now, but as of KH3's ending, Naminé is her own person. So is Xion. Or anyone else, for the matter.

Regarding Riku x Naminé.. Or any other ship with Naminé, to be honest, what rubs me wrong is that I rarely see people who appreciate Naminé for her character and individuality, and most often then not she's just part of a pairing.

This is not to say that everyone who ships her with someone ignores her character, specially in this forum where I have seen a lot of good Naminé supporters. But she is more than RokuNami or RikuNami. lol
 

Idreamaboutcats

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I've also started to grow a certain dislike for the KH fandom because half doesn't seem to acknowledge the characters as individuals past KH3, lol.

Obviously their connections made them into who they are now, but as of KH3's ending, Naminé is her own person. So is Xion. Or anyone else, for the matter.
I may have to apologize for that, since I egged it on by talking about the “twincest vs. narcissism” argument, and though I was only speaking of the semantics due to the technicality of their birth, I still made mention of it here and there, so, I’m sorry. However, I also say that it’s not wrong to acknowledge their origins, and XRN did grow beyond and independent of their archetypes, albeit at different paces, and as of right now are individuals in their own right.
This is not to say that everyone who ships her with someone ignores her character, specially in this forum where I have seen a lot of good Naminé supporters. But she is more than RokuNami or RikuNami. lol
I don’t remember if my past posts says something like this, but I do agree. We already know she’s someone who has character beyond shipping; it’s literally just bad writing and side-casting that’s at fault.

But now we’re back to shipping, and more importantly, the votes. Why are even Disney characters not kissing anymore?!
 

redcrown

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Argh! I'm allergic to that word after the official team screwed it all up. God, I wish I could take a carrot and shove it down the mouth of the idiot who decided "lifeboat" is a fitting word.
Uh... Anyone care to explain what 'lifeboat' means in this context?

Ehhh there's a case for Riku not really having romantic intentions with Kairi in KH1. He actually gave a damn about her in KH1, but personally it always seemed more like he was playing around and teasing Sora for his obvious crush on her. I think the difference in how he was with her in KH1 (actually interacting with her and seeming like a friend) compared to later games (barely even acknowledging her existence) could make it seem like he's moved on from a crush.
Imo I don't think Riku having a crush on Kairi was the case in his KH1 motivations towards her. For all his taunting Sora over not working to save her his own attention on Kairi was a bit spotty, with taking breaks to dangle her condition for the sake of antagonizing Sora. Plus throwing her in the brig of a pirate ship with a prisoner he couldn't care less about, not very romantic on his part lol.

Mind, I prefer him single and he doesn't have a love interest nor any romantic build up with anyone. This whole sentiment of forcing him to whatever available female is, frankly, dumb. If I had to pick though, he has more going on with Xion based on the games.
He kind of does have a love interest/one sided romantic build up with someone, but not any female......
 

pastel.goblin

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Imo I don't think Riku having a crush on Kairi was the case in his KH1 motivations towards her. For all his taunting Sora over not working to save her his own attention on Kairi was a bit spotty, with taking breaks to dangle her condition for the sake of antagonizing Sora. Plus throwing her in the brig of a pirate ship with a prisoner he couldn't care less about, not very romantic on his part lol.
Oh, that's more or less what I meant. To me most of his actions came across as teasing Sora for having a crush on Kairi, like the whole race to see who gets to share a paopu with Kairi thing seemed more like he was just trying to get a rise out of Sora, and his jealousy was centred around Sora replacing him rather than Kairi. I didn't word it very well aha, but right from the start for Riku it's always been about Sora.
 

Absent

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This is not a diss to any of y’all but last year I left a Kingdom Hearts group on FB and it amazed me to see the mental gymnastics people would do to pair Riku with any female. Like if you like the ship fine, but don’t twist canon with fanon. Like the games are the worst examples to use to support any ship besides sokai and even that pair is shaky.
The mangas and novels while not canon are more clear with the characters feelings and intentions.
 

Noivern

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I may have to apologize for that, since I egged it on by talking about the “twincest vs. narcissism” argument, and though I was only speaking of the semantics due to the technicality of their birth, I still made mention of it here and there, so, I’m sorry. However, I also say that it’s not wrong to acknowledge their origins, and XRN did grow beyond and independent of their archetypes, albeit at different paces, and as of right now are individuals in their own right.

]I don’t remember if my past posts says something like this, but I do agree. We already know she’s someone who has character beyond shipping; it’s literally just bad writing and side-casting that’s at fault.
Oh, don't worry, It wasn't to anyone in specific but the fandom as a whole. I mentioned it because it sorta falls uppon the shipping discussion as wel.

But now we’re back to shipping, and more importantly, the votes. Why are even Disney characters not kissing anymore?!
Thats one weird aspect of the KH3 worlds to me. Some of them follow the movies directly, but then we get to the ending and it's like they cut the plot too short, lol.
 

gulava

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I don't believe riku doesn't care about kairi. she is his friend, he cares about her, he wants to keep her safe. she is as dear as sora is. people often dismiss that in favor of soriku which bugs me a lot. riku can simultaneously care about two people, he doesn't need to chant their name every two secs to cement that for the viewers. you can ship soriku while also acknowledging he has other people he cares about. he didn't give in to ansem's temptations because of sora, but more because he feared he would lose someone's important to him if he didn't. he didn't want to antagonize sora, who is also dear to him, he thought there was no other choice as sora was trying to stop him. kairi is more than a catalyst for soriku :/. all that being said, I can't see riku in a romantic relationship with anyone. he doesn't seem interested in romance.
 
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Except Naminè was born out of Kairi and her Heart. Kairi herself had nothing to provide or give to Roxas, so therefore your biological theory has no ground whatsoever. And neither is it canon. Roxas wasn't created of Sora and Kairi at all, neither were any zygotes split, so they can't be twins. Roxas is accumulation of Sora's discarded body, birthed from his heart, with Ventus' influence deciding how he would look like. Nothing was derived from Kairi.

Naminè is basically Kairi's shadow, a ghost if you will, of herself. Sora being present merely gave her the chance to physically exist in the plane they are in, but she did not gain or was given any part of Sora. She has nothing to return to him, she has nothing that belongs to him, and thus, 100% fully returned to Kairi...because she's Kairi, putting aside the metaphysical aspect of agency. It's why she's never been referred to as anything more than Kairi's Nobody, officially and in-game. And why she and Sora were able to coexist. Touching Kairi had Naminè start to blur and dissipate in KHII when they were running away together for example.

So you can say, metaphorically, that they were created at the same time because of the one incident, but they are not at all biologically related and are two separate existences with separate components. What you stated would cause inconsistencies to the canon and will need explanations as to why Naminè was not at all necessary to wake Sora up or had her Heart divided between the two if you really think she was both of them. As was Roxas. Don't know what your attempt was for this.

Perception is what matters here to me rather than that anyway. From what I've gathered in 358/2 Days, I did not view Roxas and Xion as romantic. Their actions towards each other are no different than what the other gang of friends do. Xion says she loves both Axel and Roxas on her private journal, without at all thinking those feelings as conflicting. Then once she herself said she's Roxas and Sora, either she must have a twisted point of view of wanting someone romantically/sexually, or that defines how she sees her other self. And this matters because that's how she determines what their bond is. Doesn't help that nothing occurred in KHIII...and if anything would have, it should have been there to be established, considering how hard they pushed SoKai.

Even Terra and Aqua had a more touching, personal moment during the Eraqus and Xehanort scene, although I haven't made up my mind about them objectively speaking. They can go either way.

I like the concept and potential of Roxas/Naminè because they fulfill what the other lacks. Roxas is full of confidence, individuality, self-worth, and fought against what everyone thought he should do until he had nothing left to make him stay. Naminè is the opposite. While she's made great progress since CoM thanks to Sora's kindness, the isolation and verbal abuse she endured for basically her entire life had her become a pushover. She gained a spine, but unlike Roxas, she fully accepted her fate and that she was a creature that was never supposed to exist.

Nonetheless, she provides that intuitive, calm behavior and demeanor that has Roxas actually shut the fuck up and listen...because she listened to him as a person first, as an equal, instead of one to be coddled. He saw that and depended on her in the tutorial. She achieved what his friends failed to provide and that was the truth. It didn't matter what the consequences were. He had the right to understand things about himself and make his decision. It's crazy that he got that from someone who he didn't spend much time with yet left an impact nonetheless.

There needs to be more to conclude what it is they are to do with their specific relationship, yet that's something that'll be answered in the future once they get to physically interact again instead of Roxas being spurred emotionally by having him gaze at her mansion from within Sora in KHIII 😒.

She should have reunited with him or Kairi or both. Kairi particularly would have provided a level of depth for the two females that has nothing to do with penises ala Elsa and Anna. Disney has actual competent writers on staff though.

Hell, when I think about it, Kairi and Naminè even visually take after them.

EDIT: If you want me to play your inaccurate game, however, my "poison" will be RokuNami (if done right down the line). But it's not a poison. So.

It's hard to ship anything in KH honestly. Sora and Kairi are the only ones canonly, romantically viable and set up to be that way, but I'm just...not interested or invested :/. Roxas and Naminè are in limbo, and Terra and Aqua needs a bit more to convince me on what side they're aiming to be.

Gula and Ava are mighty fascinating to me.
Oh, none of this was my idea besides the twin analogy. I only said that to help visualize/make sense of a body and soul splitting in two. The rest comes from Secret Ansem Report 10:

Naminé emerged as Kairi's Nobody...but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora.

Granted, I may have interpreted it too literally. Maybe it meant that Namine's body and sould should have come from Sora, but just... didn't. Being wrong sucks a bit, but it's not so bad if the truth makes more sense in this godforsaken mess of a narrative.

I do have my own ship preferences, but I try not to pay them much mind. To me, ship teasing is used primarily as a marketing plow to get people more invested than they ought be in a given property. The more time and energy you invest into a series, the less likely you are to drop it. Nothing becomes canon until the very end, when said series has been milked dry. Just look at Miraculous Ladybug. Its romantic, ship-teasing subplot is the only reason anyone watches it.... and I'm one of them unfortunately.


I ship.... polyamory. Polyamory is the answer to every ship war. That's my (cop-out) answer and I'm sticking to it.

That's why my post was (meant to be) devoid of ship bias. The most I do is joke around or present objective canon material. "Call a spade a spade" and whatnot. Thanks to you though, I learned that some of that stuff wasn't as objective as I thought.

So, thank you.
 
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I feel like I needed to say something to correct a couple of misconceptions.



That’s not exactly true. Opposite sex identical twins do exist, albeit veeery rarely. More often than not though, the girl has a chromosomal defect (i.e. Turner Syndrome), or if really very lucky, is normal because the sperm had two chromosomes instead of one. There’s also the possibility the ova splits into two and then fertilized (i.e. Polar twins).
Now that intrigues the hell out of me as a nursing student. I never considered chromosomal disorders, nor did I know that some sperm have two chromosomes.
 

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Oh my lord above, we’re still talking about this. One day, Jesus Christ will descend from the heavens and the first thing he’ll be asked is, “Do you think Roxas/Namine & Roxas/Xion are incestuous?”
 
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