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Official Shipping Discussion | ships ahoy | fav ship that doesn't involve Riku or Kairi



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Chie

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Personally I don't feel that an entirely made up form of metaphyiscal cloning has much of a connection with the real life problems with incest, unless the game itself emphasizes them as being siblings, which it doesn't as of yet.
 

*TwilightNight*

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I mean both major straight ships with Roxas have the same issue, both Naminé and Xion are a mix of Sora and Kairi. Xion is a replica made to replicate Sora, but ended up becoming a mix of that and the Kairi of Sora's memories. Naminé is Kairi's Nobody through Sora's body, with a touch of Ven thrown into the mix for blond hair. So technically you can view both as half-sisters.

I'm generally rather meh about shipping, so it doesn't really matter to me. I prefer to see the three of them as friends.
I know Nomura explained Naminè's look in an interview once, and it had nothing to do with Ven. He didn't even add her in while he explained why Roxas looks like him. Of course, coud be retconned, but until then it's just for aesthetics coughavacough. Naminè herself is a very special case. And while Sora helped her be able to exist, she's not constructed or is a piece of any part of him like Roxas and Xion. She doesn't have a part of Kairi either. She's just a Kairi ghost that gained physicality. I sometimes wondered if she ever really had a body.

Screenshot_20200401-181543_Tumblr.jpg

Xion is a replica/clone of Roxas and Sora like Riku Replica is a replica/clone of Riku. Her appearance doesn't change the actual biology of her existence. It's just a matter of how one takes being created out of a sample of a guy's memories and crystallizing due to the nature upon losing those memories. Xion took the form of a KHI Kairi because Sora's strongest memory was of Kairi.

If anything, I feel the perception of the characters, like Roxas seeing Sora's face on her in the end as she was becoming complete, or Axel describing her as the replica of Roxas whose the Nobody of the Keyblade hero in his reports (journals), of Xion stating she loves both Axel and Roxas without in any way differentiating those feelings between one and the other, and Xion's perception of themselves and each other -

"Roxas, don't be sad. I came from you and Sora. I am you...the same way that I am Sora..."

Is what should be discussed.
 
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Idreamaboutcats

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Ahh, dang it, my stomach dropped when I read the “Recent Discussion Topics” sidebar at the homepage.

Look, I’m just gonna put my two cents in, and I have to repeat, there was one of those two girls I liked to ship Roxas with, but I won’t say which one because I fear ACT 2.0.

If you wanna get into the semantics, it’s a really weird form of incest on one side, and a really, really disturbing angle of narcissism with the other. Kissing is going to be awkward if Nomura finally gathers up the guts to actually write a non-Disney kiss in.

If you manage to not think about that and get over the initial squick (which thankfully I never experienced because, hey, I admit I used to ship Roxas with someone and didn’t feel the weirdness of it; I still don’t), or just don’t think of that technicality (again, which I didn’t in my shipping days) he still wins either way.

Naminé is literally the “other half” of his original self’s probable love interest, while Xion is the “idealized form” of his original self’s most precious memory, in this case said probable love interest (just ignore the black hair). Roxas has bonds with both, and whether anyone denies it or not, the foundation of that bond was Sora and Kairi. Did he grow independently of Sora? Yes. Did either girl grow independently of their respective archetypes, yes, albeit unevenly with one more than the other, but details, so who cares? The point is, it’s safe to ship Roxas with either girl, regardless if it’s independently of his feelings, or using Sora and Kairi as the initial foundation (i.e. “Destiny”) because he can be free to be with whoever he chooses to be with.

If you’re going by canon though, well, now that’s a whole other story, and it’s still up in the air.

Edit: I just had flashbacks of the violent (forum) confrontations between the Pinkers and Cloti shippers.🤣
 
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*TwilightNight*

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Look, I’m just gonna put my two cents in, and I have to repeat, there was one of those two girls I liked to ship Roxas with, but I won’t say which one because I fear ACT 2.0.
Why fear that? I'm mostly chill with the entire thing because, one, I don't think Roxas and Xion were portrayed to be romantic based by Xion's point of view (they lack the romantic presentation that Sora and Kairi get specifically to contrast with other affections given to friends, hell, I think Terra/Aqua got more out of the reunion than Roxas and Xion did in KHIII), and two, even if they go with one side, the discourse will be glorious. Nothing to be scared of. You just sit and watch the world burn. With nachos and dip.

The only thing to fear is the writing. Hope Nomura took a narrative course of Basic Storytelling 101 for this saga.

Never heard of that theory before. Do tell.
Well, coming from my post about Naminè having a special yet odd birth, with no parts of Sora or Kairi (despite being Kairi's Nobody/shadow/ghost), and her memory powers, people have been tying her with Ava. She's easy peasy to retcon since she's still pretty much a mystery. Nomura retconned in Ventus with the birth of Roxas (which I felt and still feel was stupid), and others believe it's possible to do the same with Naminè. Her short story in Kingdom Hearts III Character Files has her saying a quote very similar to the one Ava's most known for.

Which is why I was waiting for goldpanner's translation of it, particularly because she's accurate.

The theory varies - some are saying Ava is Kairi's grandma and Kairi was holding her Heart, or Ava's Heart probably found an empty vessel to take, etc. It really depends on what happened to Ava and where she is.

358/2 Days also showed tidbits about Naminè, as much as people like to bypass her role there. Saïx and Xigbar (who we now know is Luxu) talk about her at one point in a meeting, and Xigbar was being particularly secretive about her whereabouts. Then Vexen's file on Naminè that Axel was reading has the title of "The Truth About Naminè".

Little stuff like that.
 
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Idreamaboutcats

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Why fear that?
Because back in the day the Pinkers were –are still- crazy and the other side was waaay too intense. An ACT 2.0 is going to be a disaster.

You just sit and watch the world burn. With nachos and dip.
I do like watching the world burn…🤔
I’ll take it with a burger instead with a coca-cola or sprite.

The only thing to fear is the writing. Hope Nomura took a narrative course of Basic Storytelling 101 for this saga.
The franchise is nearly 20 years old and we have yet to see a kiss in between original or FF characters. It’ll take a miracle at this point.


Well, coming from my post about Naminè having a special yet odd birth, with no parts of Sora or Kairi (despite being Kairi's Nobody/shadow/ghost), and her memory powers, people have been tying her with Ava. She's easy peasy to retcon since she's still pretty much a mystery. Nomura retconned in Ventus with the birth of Roxas (which I felt and still feel was stupid), and others believe it's possible to do the same with Naminè. Her short story in Kingdom Hearts III Character Files has her saying a quote very similar to the one Ava's most known for.

Which is why I was waiting for goldpanner's translation of it, particularly because she's accurate.

The theory varies - some are saying Ava is Kairi's grandma and Kairi was holding her Heart, or Ava's Heart probably found an empty vessel to take, etc. It really depends on what happened to Ava and where she is.

358/2 Days also showed tidbits about Naminè, as much as people like to bypass her role there. Saïx and Xigbar talk about her at one point in a meeting, and Xigbar was being particularly secretive about her whereabouts. Then Vexen's file on Naminè that Axel was reading has the title of "The Truth About Naminè".

Little stuff like that.
Ah, yes, that book. It is interesting that Vexen would write a book about her of all things, as he was already busy with that research of his. Replicas are a subspecies of their own, but Naminé…who even knows what she is? Nomura says she could be a subspecies on her own but… Eh, she literally has no foundation to exist, a body and soul that was taken by Roxas, and a heart that could not create a Nobody under normal circumstances. She has less than what a Replica could have, and they already have less than regular humanoid nobodies, not even memories of her own. At least Replicas had memories to serve as anchors in their doll bodies. She didn’t have a body, real or doll, Kairi’s heart could not be tainted, and no memories. Her powers are even more strange. Her control over memory, a component of hearts, is already OP. Like ordinary humanoid Nobodies, she has command of darkness to even use a corridor, but like Roxas, she has command of light. I daresay it’s probably even more powerful than his, since she dispelled the darkness and saved him from being swallowed after the battle with Twilight Thorn. She’s really, for the lack of a better term, different.

But details, so who cares, anyway, shipping thread, so yeah, go ahead and ship Rucksack with whoever.
 

SweetYetSalty

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I think you all get the idea but really im shocked, I see many people approving of this ship but why? it just feels wrong, Roxas is Sora’s Nobody and Xion (altho looks like kairi) she is Sora’s Replica, so technically both are Sora, only difference is Xion is a female but still before growing her own heart she still was created from Sora, which means they are more siblings then they are Lovers, Riku should be with Xion instead imo or both should stay single not everyone should be in a ship lol

what do you think?
I don't ship Roxas and Xion, but I understand why many do, since you're asking why. They actually got time to develop their friendship onscreen, and they showed it, and not just tell us. Roxas and Xion have a very strong platonic love for one another, that many want to see evolve into a romance. KH3 strengthened it with Roxas being the one to save Xion, literally doing the impossible and remembering her name, sparking her. Me personally, I want to see their dynamic expand into a family love rather then a romantic one. This way Axel can still be included and Hayner, Pence, Olette, and Isa can be added to it and anyone else who wants to join their ice cream cult. So even though I don't ship them, I get why others do, and they are perfectly fine in doing so. Shipping should be for fun.

As for the "they are Sora" argument, it's funny. I joke all the time about them being "Sora clones" or sentient "dead bodies" or "memory eating puppets" for my own personal amusement. But I don't actually view them as that. To still claim these characters as pieces of Sora really defeats the purpose of them growing hearts and becoming their own people. Roxas isn't Sora or Ventus (thanks goodness that theory didn't happen) he's influenced by them, but he's his own character. Fighting for ones existence has been a major theme among the clone characters. If they are just pieces of Sora then they all should have stopped existing after merging. That's my take on it, even though I'll continue to joke about them in future threads anyway. Such a hypocrite I am :p
 

palizinhas

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Yeah, joking that these characters are all the same person or siblings or whatever is funny, but that is clearly not what the story actually says. The times where Roxas and Xion themselves say they are Sora, they are shown to be wrong - Sora says that isn't the case when talking to Roxas in DDD, and DDD and KH3 show that they are their own people. I don't want them to get together in canon despite shipping them, but whenever people say they can't happen because it would be selfcest it just makes me ship them more out of spite. Same goes to Roxas/Sora too, which I also ship.
 

*TwilightNight*

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There's a difference between metaphysics and biological construction/physicality that you guys get confused on, like you can have one but not the other.

It's actually synonymous.

Roxas, Xion, and Naminè (her especially, since she posesses no physical piece of Sora or Kairi) are their own people and have their own Hearts, yes. However, that doesn't make them any less Sora in the physical/biological sense. One is literally Sora's body, the other is literally Sora's memory [in physical form]. That's just fact. That's why they returned to him. So when people say it's incest or narcissism, that's what they are referring to. That's what Xion refers to in her final line in Days when stating she's Roxas, just like she's Sora (and this is her actual confirmed perception of her and Roxas' relationship and how she views him). She's right, as is everyone else. What Sora argues against and what the series' theme follows is the metaphysical, that they created their own individuality and agency away from Sora. Sora's right too.

That simply doesn't change their physical make up.

What others think about the situation is personal and subjective. If a fan doesn't care, then they don't care. If they care, then they care. They are free to see it however they wish.

It's not like anime hasn't done incest ships (yes, actual brother/sister) and people are on board with it.


Because back in the day the Pinkers were –are still- crazy and the other side was waaay too intense. An ACT 2.0 is going to be a disaster.
What are Pinkers though.

I do like watching the world burn…🤔
I’ll take it with a burger instead with a coca-cola or sprite.
Whatever unhealthy plethora of food you prefer to gourge on.

The franchise is nearly 20 years old and we have yet to see a kiss in between original or FF characters. It’ll take a miracle at this point.
Pretty sure Tidus and Yuna got in a blatant make out session. Snow and Serah kissed as well. I doubt KH will get that however judging by how pure and innocent they are handling Sora and Kairi.

Ah, yes, that book. It is interesting that Vexen would write a book about her of all things, as he was already busy with that research of his. Replicas are a subspecies of their own, but Naminé…who even knows what she is? Nomura says she could be a subspecies on her own but… Eh, she literally has no foundation to exist, a body and soul that was taken by Roxas, and a heart that could not create a Nobody under normal circumstances. She has less than what a Replica could have, and they already have less than regular humanoid nobodies, not even memories of her own. At least Replicas had memories to serve as anchors in their doll bodies. She didn’t have a body, real or doll, Kairi’s heart could not be tainted, and no memories. Her powers are even more strange. Her control over memory, a component of hearts, is already OP. Like ordinary humanoid Nobodies, she has command of darkness to even use a corridor, but like Roxas, she has command of light. I daresay it’s probably even more powerful than his, since she dispelled the darkness and saved him from being swallowed after the battle with Twilight Thorn. She’s really, for the lack of a better term, different.

But details, so who cares, anyway, shipping thread, so yeah, go ahead and ship Rucksack with whoever.
It's a theory [shrug]. Only time will tell.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Roxas doesn’t have Sora’s body anymore, though. All of them are in replica bodies. I guess if you want to feel better about shipping them together, that is something to consider.
 

AdrianXXII

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Yeah, we also don't know what a replica body is like geneticall speaking. Their appearance is determined by the data or heart within them not genetic material.

Honestly at this point i'd say they are as related to each other as Sora and Ven are to each other.
 

SweetYetSalty

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Roxas doesn’t have Sora’s body anymore, though. All of them are in replica bodies. I guess if you want to feel better about shipping them together, that is something to consider.
In that regard Xion never had Sora's body then...at least until Xemnas modified her to look like him lol.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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In that regard Xion never had Sora's body then...at least until Xemnas modified her to look like him lol.
Yeah, I mean I personally I wouldn’t ship Sora or Xion together. It’s too much to me. Or Sora and Roxas. I can only handle certain combinations.

Namine/Xion
Sora/Namine
Roxas/Namine
Kairi/Roxas

That is it lol
 

SweetYetSalty

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Yeah, I mean I personally I wouldn’t ship Sora or Xion together. It’s too much to me. Or Sora and Roxas. I can only handle certain combinations.

Namine/Xion
Sora/Namine
Roxas/Namine
Kairi/Roxas

That is it lol
I don't ship them either. I'm generally not a shipper at all. I can't see any of these character seriously romantically involved. I don't think any of them are even mature enough to handle that type of relationship.
 

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The only ship I can see set sailing is Sora and kairi they are the only ship (maybe Roxas and Namine too but just a little) that been shown to be a thing from the start, as for the other ships it’s just the fans started shipping cause they saw how close the characters are with each other, I saw them more as friends and family then love interest, my opinion might change but for now I see them as

RAX trio = Friends
TAV trio = Family
SRK trio = Something in between
 
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Idreamaboutcats

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I fear and exalt the day that poll will change to Rokunami vs. Rokushi…

You just know they’re going to throw in Akuroku in it for giggles despite the age gap or a “por que no los dos” option, but who cares since it’s fiction, and that’s not the point.

That simply doesn't change their physical make up.
Well, if it helps, they’re living dolls now, so genetics don’t apply, even if their origin was that.

What are Pinkers though.
Rabid Clerith fans who live in their high and holy Pink Fortress where the library is filled with Clerith fanfiction and the walls are decorated with fanart.


Pretty sure Tidus and Yuna got in a blatant make out session. Snow and Serah kissed as well. I doubt KH will get that however judging by how pure and innocent they are handling Sora and Kairi.
Oh gosh, I forgot about Tidus and Yuna! That scene was…borderline mature as it can get for an FF game.

Roxas doesn’t have Sora’s body anymore, though. All of them are in replica bodies. I guess if you want to feel better about shipping them together, that is something to consider.
It does, and I’m happy for them since their deepest wish was to become human and be with the people they love. Although romance is stillcomplicated.

I don't ship them either. I'm generally not a shipper at all. I can't see any of these character seriously romantically involved. I don't think any of them are even mature enough to handle that type of relationship.
Wait until you find out how old Snow White was when she got kissed…while in her own casket. Rory was 16 too, and in a coma…
The only ship I can see set sailing is Sora and kairi they are the only ship (maybe Roxas and Namine too but just a little) that been shown to be a thing from the start, as for the other ships it’s just the fans started shipping cause they saw how close the characters are with each other, I saw them more as friends and family then love interest, my opinion might change but for now I see them as

RAX trio = Friends
TAV trio = Family
SRK trio = Something in between
Agreed.
 

the red monster

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The only couple i can ship outside sora and kairi, is zack and aqua, since you know.. he actually asked her out.
 

*TwilightNight*

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Well, if it helps, they’re living dolls now, so genetics don’t apply, even if their origin was that.
As of KHIII, yes, it has blurred. But I go more with the mindset of the characters, how they feel, what they say, and how they see one another. Sora and Kairi, for example, have eyes for each other that has never been just platonic since the very first KH game.

The second thing I look at is the meta. People ignore or do not acknowledge things officially beyond the games, as it's subtle. So this includes like, for example, the ending credits of 2.8, plushes, pairs, art, interviews, etc.

Rabid Clerith fans who live in their high and holy Pink Fortress where the library is filled with Clerith fanfiction and the walls are decorated with fanart.
Clerith is awesome and Cloud clearly loves both girls. The FF7 fandom is vast, so I doubt the ruckus of that dumb love triangle will be equivalent to whatever you think will occur concerning Roxas? The KH fanbase has dwindled over the years and it has never been the same since its peak in 2005-2008.

Roxas/Naminè/Xion aren't even a canon love triangle, let alone one that's been dragged to death and used as a selling point.
 
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Idreamaboutcats

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As of KHIII, yes, it has blurred. But I go more with the mindset of the characters, how they feel, what they say, and how they see one another. Sora and Kairi, for example, have eyes for each other that has never been just platonic since the very first KH game.

The second thing I look at is the meta. People ignore or do not acknowledge things officially beyond the games, as it's subtle. So this includes like, for example, the ending credits of 2.8, plushes, pairs, art, interviews, etc.
Stained Glass#8 Medal is probably something you’d like to look at.

Clerith is awesome and Cloud clearly loves both girls. The FF7 fandom is vast, so I doubt the ruckus of that dumb love triangle will be equivalent to whatever you think will occur concerning Roxas? The KH fanbase has dwindled over the years and it has never been the same since its peak in 2005-2008.

Roxas/Naminè/Xion aren't even a canon love triangle, let alone one that's been dragged to death and used as a selling point.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound critical of Clerith. Some Clerith shippers are cool, it’s just the Pinkers who are really way out of it. All Pinkers are Clerith shippers but not all Clerith shippers are Pinkers. Although to be honest I’d like her to be with Zack, and hearing of his un-death during the Remake gives me some hope for that, even though I still avoid that game like the plague for fear of a repeat of that damned love triangle debate.

I know it’s unreasonably paranoid, but well…brooding emo blond who was the vicarious life of someone else, girl as sweet as cherry cough syrup, other brunette girl with combat experience, enemy is man with long ass silver hair… I can’t help but be a little put off.

Yeah…I definitely should stop worrying about it. I just have to stop thinking “ACT 2.0.”
 

*TwilightNight*

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Stained Glass#8 Medal is probably something you’d like to look at.
This?



That's the Stained Glass #8 medal I found when I searched. So if that's what you're referring to...then, yeah, point taken.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound critical of Clerith. Some Clerith shippers are cool, it’s just the Pinkers who are really way out of it. All Pinkers are Clerith shippers but not all Clerith shippers are Pinkers. Although to be honest I’d like her to be with Zack, and hearing of his un-death during the Remake gives me some hope for that, even though I still avoid that game like the plague for fear of a repeat of that damned love triangle debate.

I know it’s unreasonably paranoid, but well…brooding emo blond who was the vicarious life of someone else, girl as sweet as cherry cough syrup, other brunette girl with combat experience, enemy is man with long ass silver hair… I can’t help but be a little put off.

Yeah…I definitely should stop worrying about it. I just have to stop thinking “ACT 2.0.”
Didn't know a term for them existed. Anyway, I'm not that well versed in FF7 any longer to have any legitimate opinions on the situation. I'm probably outdated. I would not describe Aerith as sweet as cherry cough syrup though, lol. Tifa, yeah. Aerith has some street in her. The Cloud/Roxas comparison? Dead on. I always saw him as mini Cloud. Like Nomura wanted his own KH version of him.

KH_II_Cloud_3★_KHUX.pngRoxas_A_5★_KHUX.png

Seriously.
 
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