Observations on Ventus' possible role/connection to Unchained X and the chi-era.

[Sephiroth0812]

As of recently Nomura has been quite a tease about some involvement or connection of Ventus in regards to Unchained X/the chi-era, both by including him twice on a piece of concept art,
the 3rd Anniversary card for browser-chi and the 1st Anniversary sketch for Unchained X as well as some verbal usual mysterious "please look forward to it"-nudge in an UX development
report from August 31, 2016:

Moving away from KHUχ for a little, there was the 'Ventus' I drew for the KHχ 3rd anniversary card, and the 'Maleficent' that appeared in the KHχ Special Episode who left some deeply
meaningful words. I hope these all clued you into the new developments that will be starting soon.

Our community as creative as ever has already sprouted several theories as to what Ven's involvement could be and how his connection to the chi-era may look like, among them being the
assumption that he may actual hail somehow from that era despite it being vastly in the past, either by being a member of the Dandelions, the exclusive group of Keyblade Wielders
founded by the Leader of the Vulpes Union, Lady Ava, which is tasked with avoiding the deadly Keyblade War and move on to the "outside world" or possibly even be the Player-avatar somehow.

Other theories revolve around Ventus being somehow either the descendant or reincarnation of one of the major characters of the chi-era, most prominently being the "Rebirth"-theory which
links him to Master Gula of the Leopardos Union while again others provide the possibility of the Realm of Sleep and present day-Ventus' sleeping heart making contact with the possibly also
sleeping characters of the chi-era being involved. Since hey if present-day Maleficent can get involved somehow why can't Ven?

What I am going to do here is not adding yet another fully fleshed out theory to the pile, but more like sharing several observations and ideas on visual and symbolic thematic clues
I made that may hint at to what exactly Ventus' role in this may be and yet another possibility of how his connection to the chi-era may be situated.

Or in short, this isn't really a full theory-thread per se but more like in the same spirit as the "Hourglass"-thread Master Spockanort made some time ago.

That cleared up beforehand, let's get started:

In regards to what Ventus' actual overaching role in Unchained X might be, or rather, why he's always shown together with Ephemer and Skuld, the following idea actually came to me after
reading Nomura's comment about the "secret message" of the three Remaster-cover arts and the "changing sky":

--You also revealed a gorgeous package art.

Nomura: There are actually two secrets about the illustrations from [KH1.5] until [KH2.8]. Extremely attentive KH fans might have already discovered them, but one is that Sora's movements change from sitting, to standing, to walking. One more is that when you line up the three illustrations, you'll notice that they show the flow of time with changes in the sky. [KH1.5] is sunset becoming night, [KH2.5] is the middle of the night, and [KH2.8] is night breaking into dawn. Those three illustrations have a message regarding the final chapter, [KHIII].

--So you planned all this from the time of [KH1.5]'s release, then?

Nomura: We worried a long time about the package art for [KH2.5], and we worked on trying to connect the three productions in a continual manner. It seems like there were a lot of people who figured out Sora's movements, but there were not very many people who noticed the connection between the skies. There are two meanings to “sora” (I.E. one being the protagonist's name, and the other meaning “sky”).

The bolded part about the double meaning of the word "Sora" describing both a person and the actual sky itself is what got me thinking...don't we have such a possible double meaning somewhere with Ventus in relation to Ephemer and Skuld (or rather, what they represent) as well?
Turns out we do as Ventus is not only the name of the person from BBS but also describing the nature phenomena of wind itself in latin.

In X[chi], Lady Ava says something about the Dandelions as a whole twice:

- Ride the wind, and fly somewhere far away…
Dandelion.

Protect them from nightmares, okay, Chirithy?
So that <Player> may ride the wind and fly.

Ephemer is appointed by Lady Ava to be the leader of the Dandelions while Skuld is a representative/a stand-in for the "regular" Dandelions.

Ava is speaking very metaphorically there, but what she essentially means is to "use the wind" or let yourself be "guided by the wind" to fly to somewhere far away (the outside world).
Just as Sora has the crown as his symbol, Ventus actually does have a symbol of his own as well, that being feathers and wings, things commonly associated with flying.
I know, some of you will now say but wait, others have symbolic wings in their items/designs too like Riku's Way to Dawn or Xehanort's Keyblade Glider. Yes, that's true, but unlike these
characters feathers and wings are a thing that is constantly present in nearly all items/techniques directly associated with Ventus.

The teeth of his Keyblade, Wayward Wind, are a stylized wing:

The Keychain of his personal Keyblade is two feathers encircling an emerald that could also be seen as elongated wings:

The Lost Memory, his other personal Keyblade, also has a prominent wing motif:

His Keyblade Glider, while ultimatively a space surfboard, does have wing-like extensions:

His most powerful shotlock, Multivortex, consists of six wind/air-like energy blades floating behind him like wings and the Command Style Wingblade gives him six light swords also reminiscent of wings sprouting from his back.

When attacking Ventus himself also uses many "flying" and diving attacks true to his primary element and namesake.

Thus, the idea is that Ventus' primary role and task with the chi-cast is to be the "guiding wind" that actually leads the Dandelions to the outside world.
Since Ephemer is the leader of the Dandelions and Skuld the visible "face" of regular Dandelions for the audience, it stands to reason that those two will be the ones to be in contact with Ventus.

I admit that may sound somewhat thin on the first glance, but we do have a precedence for this "fly and reach the outside/"real" world", directly from Dream Drop Distance:

I'm going back to the real world, and then to Sora's side.

Ansem the Wise: Then, you came here, and you were questioned by three
young people. That was the final key to awaken him. Sora is awake. You
can go home now.

And what does Riku do after this? He flies upwards back into the "outside" world, aka the world outside sleep/the dreams.

Ansem also speaks about the "final key" to awaken Sora (and by that, Sora's heart), Lady Ava also speaks about something similar when addressing the Dandelions:

After this, when that conflict breaks out, I want you to not participate in the battle, and instead depart for the outside world.
That is why I want you to repeat separate training every day like this.
To you I entrust the future of the Keyblade Wielders, the Realm of Light.
With your hearts guided by the key.

The thematic imagery fits.
You "dive" into hearts and/or sleeping worlds and "fly" upwards out of them.

Now we have the possible role Ventus has to play, as in him being the "key" guiding the Dandelions, the possible double meaning with his name and the visual/thematic imagery to go with it, and yet the question
remains how and why Ventus actually manages to reach and interact with the possibly sleeping hearts of Ephemer, Skuld and the Dandelion kids.
One of the most simple explanations would certainly be that since he's asleep for over ten years, his heart by now apparently far along in healing and him practically entering the Realm of Sleep
together with Sora in DDD, that there will be an event/situation where Ventus either by choice or by chance ends up in the chi-era-related events and makes contact with i.e. Ephemer.
Sora's newborn heart initially made contact with Ventus' in the BBS Prologue without having a prior connection as well, so that may also be possible here.

To give some more food for thought on a possible connection between Ventus and the chi-era that doesn't boil down to him actually originating from that era though, lets look at another possible scenario.
What exactly is the crux of the connection between Riku and Terra?
Answer: Terra bestowed a Keyblade to Riku by performing the ceremony with him.
Now you'd probably wonder what the frack that means, aren't we talking about Ventus' connection with the chi-era?
Yep, that's right, but the exact same connection that is there between Terra and Riku may be the one that connects Ven to the chi-era.

In the new Re: Coded secret ending Young Xehanort speaks about how every new Keyblade Wielder gets a Keyblade of his/her own through the act of passing down from an already existing wielder's blade.
We do not know yet how that process exactly works but there is one thing to be kept in mind:
Ventus was found and taken as a pupil by Master Xehanort who almost assuredly performed the ceremony with Ventus. We also know that Xehanort had already left Land of Departure behind by the time he
found Ventus and acknowledged his potential.
The new KH III trailer with the chess scene further implies that Xehanort his no more using whatever Keyblade had chosen him first (if there was one, that is), but uses the "Goatblade", or rather,
Luxu's Keyblade by the time he left LoD behind.
So the ceremony performed with Ventus most likely involved Luxu's Keyblade, a Keyblade being stated to be older than any still in existence and to be implied somewhat special.

So while Ventus does indeed get his own Keyblade, the Wayward Wind, as we see him hold this blade already in the flashbacks with the Heartless, proving he could already summon it even as a 10/11 year-old
child, he has possibly a connection by proxy to the chi-era due to him getting the ceremony with an item from that era, Luxu's Keyblade.

We don't know yet how the "new" Keyblades that are passed down to new wielders are made, but maybe there is something from the old blade the ceremony is done with that gets passed down into the new blade, forming a link/connection?

Yet another possibility, this although being a total shot into the blue, is that maybe inside Ventus' heart there is a copy of the Tome of Prophecies stored? Ansem the Wise after all managed to "upload" a huge bunch of research data and a digital copy of himself into Sora's heart...

This is of course all total conjecture yet, but I think it may give some further food for thought as well as maybe some more ideas for further theorizing. ^__^

 

[kirabook]

So this ties in with the idea that rather than being from the past (although he still could be), his connection to Chi is actually leading the dandelions out into the new world rather than having been a real dandelion himself that somehow ended up in the present day through questionable means?

Since Nomura is being a trickster afterall and drew the covers a certain way on purpose (such as, all the checkered patterns everywhere is probably related to that chess game between Eraqus and Xehanort), what could he reasons be for Ven's shorter hair and missing straps and whatnot...

 

[Antifa Lockhart]

I like this better than any of the VENTUS IS FROM THE X ERA theories, and have been wondering if him being the "wind" would be linked to the dandelions for some time.

I'm running a bit behind today, but the speech Ava gives to the Dandelions at the fountain actually has a canon translation, for your future reference.

A war will soon wage.


Those who strive to protect the light will turn their weapons on their allies for the sake of loyalty to their own Unions.
To be honest, I don't know how far I can guide all of you.


What you must remember is that anyone can lose themselves to the darkness.


However, there will be no winners; everything will be lost. Except all of you who are the seeds of hope.

When the time comes, and there is war, you mustn't fight but instead you must fly away from here to the world outside.


This training is to help you fulfill this crucial task. The future is in all your hands― as is the world's light.
May your heart be your guiding key.

 

[DarkosOverlord]

Okay, that's really interesting and well put.

I'm neither a fan nor a detractor of the "Ventus is from X" theory: I don't particularly care for him, so any theory that makes sense to me, like this one, is good enough. (Aside from the Rebirth one, and btw I just now noticed that if Ven is this important chi-related person he probably isn't Gula's reincarnation)

Worry not for the wings being present on other people, actually the way I see it the recurring motif of the angelic/demonic wings on Keyblade such as Oblivion, Luxu's, Oathkeeper and such can be used as a foundation for this one, meaning the important characters and keys do have a connection with wings and wind.

Lastly, regardless of the theory you do bring an excellent point to the table: the Ceremony perpetrated with Luxu's Keyblade. That's a fascinating element even analyzed on its own.
Bravo.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

So this ties in with the idea that rather than being from the past (although he still could be), his connection to Chi is actually leading the dandelions out into the new world rather than having been a real dandelion himself that somehow ended up in the present day through questionable means?

Since Nomura is being a trickster afterall and drew the covers a certain way on purpose (such as, all the checkered patterns everywhere is probably related to that chess game between Eraqus and Xehanort), what could he reasons be for Ven's shorter hair and missing straps and whatnot...

The first idea is about what Ventus' actual role with the Dandelions and by proxy the entire X-era is in conjunction with the present day and present events, the "reason" for his involvement so to speak.

As for his connection to the chi-era, I merely gave yet another possibility how it could work without actually insinuating he lived truly in the past era.
Note how Nomura says in his statement "moving away from Ux a little" and then mentions both Ventus and Maleficent in the same sentence.
I do believe that this all is primarily about connecting the chi-era to the present day somehow, not to actually contruct a widely convoluted scenario of Ventus himself as a person actually being thousands of years old and being an actual survivor of the old world/ possibly one of the children who rebuild the world. Not to mention that Ventus is also among the medals/cards conjured by the tome of prophecies that symbolize the power from the future which are used by the past wielders. No one of the actual chi characters is featured on a medal/card so if Ventus would be really from the past, there should be no medals/cards featuring him.

It is clear that there is an intentional connection though and that Ven will have some role to play with the chi-cast, just like Maleficent is poised to as well.

As for Ven's hair, I've said before that I do not give much about that since it may be just a change in Nomura's artstyle, or to quote dlppictures from another thread:

I am not ready to put much thought into Ven's hairstyle.
*Like Sephiroth said, it might be Nomura updating his artstyle to fit in more with the new generation of consoles.
*It might be that Nomura's artstyle has evolved, as comparing his artstyle from the mid 90'ties to his artstyle today does show considerable differences. Here it might just be that his style evolved more since the last time he drew Ven.
*Or maybe there is no significance at all and he just decided to draw Ven differently, similar to how Roxas was designed in this artwork:

We will learn the truth soon enough.

That example picture there showing Roxas at nearly Aqua's/Terra's age is a good indicator.

Note also how in the Nomura sketch where the KH original cast performs as an orchestra Roxas is drawn in the same angle as Ven on the 3rd Anniversary and his hair there is also "less spiky" than usual while in the 1st Anniversary sketch of Ux Ventus' entire position is nearly the same as in the 3rd Anniversary card, only the poition of the head is slightly different.

That's not to say I completely discard the Dandelion/Reincarnation theories though, I still keep them in the back of my head as they cannot be outright debunked either.

I like this better than any of the VENTUS IS FROM THE X ERA theories, and have been wondering if him being the "wind" would be linked to the dandelions for some time.

I'm running a bit behind today, but the speech Ava gives to the Dandelions at the fountain actually has a canon translation, for your future reference.

It may shine through in my posts anyways but I do also freely admit directly that while I won't outright detract or dismiss such theories, there is something about the prospect of Ventus being actually from the x-era that doesn't sit well with me. I can't really fully explain it yet, but there's something about it I don't like. I mean it is ok to have a mysterious past and possibly even a connection directly to that era (KH is known for its connection-stuff anyways) but being the past is something else.

For that wind-Dandelion connection though it was truly Nomura's comment about double name meanings that got me thinking about this.

Oi gawrsh, and there I thought I had all the references I wanted to use double checked. I must have somehow overlooked the official translation of Lady Ava's speech. Thank you, I'll keep that in mind.

Okay, that's really interesting and well put.

I'm neither a fan nor a detractor of the "Ventus is from X" theory: I don't particularly care for him, so any theory that makes sense to me, like this one, is good enough. (Aside from the Rebirth one, and btw I just now noticed that if Ven is this important chi-related person he probably isn't Gula's reincarnation)

Worry not for the wings being present on other people, actually the way I see it the recurring motif of the angelic/demonic wings on Keyblade such as Oblivion, Luxu's, Oathkeeper and such can be used as a foundation for this one, meaning the important characters and keys do have a connection with wings and wind.

Lastly, regardless of the theory you do bring an excellent point to the table: the Ceremony perpetrated with Luxu's Keyblade. That's a fascinating element even analyzed on its own.
Bravo.

Thanks. ^__^

That's completely fine, lol, not everyone can care for every character and if one is honest, the entire BBS trio, Ventus included, have not been handled very well so far due to BBS' rather sloppy story script and "plot-induced stupidity", resulting in those characters not really having been used to what they potentially could be.

It's actually because of this that I welcome both BBS 0.2 for Aqua and Ventus' possible inclusion with the X[chi]-story somehow as these characters can only get better and more interesting if the narrative pays some attention to them and actually gives them an agenda/more substance.

Of course, the premise of my ideas presented here as well as some of the other theories around run contrary to the Rebirth-theory on several parts, which is also completely fine.
With the Rebirth-theory there was/is however sadly some misconception around the fandom that some parts of it seem to already take it as confirmed/fact when in actuality nothing towards it has been confirmed.

Hmm, that's also an interesting take on the wings-issue indeed.

It seems such a triviality and before the arrival of Re: Coded's new secret ending and the reveal of this Keyblade being ancient (and shown with Luxu in Chi) it may have been indeed trivial, but now it might indeed have a deeper meaning worth an analysis on its own as I am to 99% sure that Xehanort performed the ceremony with Ven using this blade and since Ventus got his own Keyblade (and pretty fast too, considering he could already summon it as a kid in the flashbacks) it can be insinuated that Luxu's Keyblade deemed Ventus' heart worthy wielder-material.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

Just an observation:

Ansem the Wise: Then, you came here, and you were questioned by three
young people. That was the final key to awaken him. Sora is awake. You
can go home now.

Riku met, in this order, with Roxas, Ventus and Xion. Is it coincidence that Riku met with two males, and a female? From what you're saying about Skuld and Ephemera meeting with Ventus in order to get to the other world, this would make them two males and a female. Ventus, Ephemera and Skuld. The question is: is it coincidence, or were Roxas and Xion meant to be placeholders for Skuld and Ephemera?

---

Another question: Sora is looking for the Key to People's Hearts. But what if they this Key isn't a physical object? What if Roxas, and even Skuld and Ephemera, ARE the key to the hearts of the people (Dandelions) waiting to be transferred to the next world?

 

[Luxu]

Either he is a random Dandelion, a Dandelion that was close with Ephemer(a) and Skuld, or we could go the Simple and Clean route and say he is the Player.


Or he is Gula...

 

[Audo]

Either he is a random Dandelion, a Dandelion that was close with Ephemer(a) and Skuld, or we could go the Simple and Clean route and say he is the Player.


Or he is Gula...

Or none of those...

 

[Luxu]

Or none of those...

True...But he does have a "major" role in KHuX linking with KH3.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Just an observation:



Riku met, in this order, with Roxas, Ventus and Xion. Is it coincidence that Riku met with two males, and a female? From what you're saying about Skuld and Ephemera meeting with Ventus in order to get to the other world, this would make them two males and a female. Ventus, Ephemera and Skuld. The question is: is it coincidence, or were Roxas and Xion meant to be placeholders for Skuld and Ephemera?

---

Another question: Sora is looking for the Key to People's Hearts. But what if they this Key isn't a physical object? What if Roxas, and even Skuld and Ephemera, ARE the key to the hearts of the people (Dandelions) waiting to be transferred to the next world?

Well, Ansem the Wise does say that these three questions stated were the "final key" to awaken Sora, so one may perhaps deduce from this that in order to awaken a sleeping heart (aka performing a "Birth by Sleep") you need at least two things:
1. Someone with the power to awaken hearts (In Sora's case during DDD this condition was fulfilled by Riku).
2. At least three other hearts which need to be connected to the heart you want to awaken (In Sora's case those were Roxas, Ventus and Xion). The number three, besides seven and thirteen, is also important in KH and since Ansem the Wise apparently researched all this shit he knows what he's talking about. These "conditions" may also be part of the data with the resarch results Ansem put on an USB-Stick...err no, in KH you use letters in bottles apparently, and hid it inside Sora's heart somehow.

In Ventus' case for example, the one using the power to awaken hearts could again be Riku, while the three hearts connected to Ven to awaken him would be Sora, Roxas and Aqua.
In Terra's case, the one using the power is anyone's guess, but the three hearts connected to him for the "final key" would certainly be Ven, Aqua and Riku.
For Roxas, the three hearts would probably either Sora, Xion and Naminé, Sora, Xion and Lea or Naminé, Xion and Lea.

But this is of course, all shooting into the blue yet again and a deduction made from a single sentence of Ansem the Wise.
Interesting is though, that these three questions were actually a callback to KH 1, where Sora himself was asked them, and now it comes: In his own awakening, also on a fascimile of Destiny Islands and also by exactly three people: Tidus, Wakka and Selphie.
Furthermore, in the 1st Anniversary black-and-white sketch of Nomura there are five characters drawn, Ephemer, Skuld, Ventus and two unknowns, this may also have yet another meaning.

As for the rest of that observation though, I'm not exactly sure what you're implying with this? That Ephemer and Skuld are somehow also in Sora's heart and Ven meets them there? That Ephemer and Skuld are somehow tied to Roxas and Xion?
While I do tend to believe that Ventus, Ephemer and Skuld will eventually form a sort of trio, I do not think that Roxas or Xion have anything to do with it.
It is already quite a stretch and lots of guessing work to connect Ventus with characters from centuries ago, but characters like Roxas, Xion, Naminé and Vanitas definitely did not even exist before the respective KH games they were born in.

Or are you speaking of tentative foreshadowing of Ventus becoming part of another trio? In that case I dunno, as I don't know if by the time DDD was made it was already decided to make X[chi] canon and the characters Ephemer and Skuld even being a thing already back then.

The last thing I want for the KH series to do is to pull another character X is actually character Y in reality. It's hard enough to keep an overview with the countless forms and variants of Xehanort.

The thing Sora is supposed to search for in KH 3 is called "the Key to return Hearts", the "Key to People's Hearts" is the dark Keyblade from KH 1 used by Riku-Ansem, two different things. Regarding the key being a physical object, that was never actually stated somewhere, so if the statement goes around then it is only a fan-assumption/interpretation.
At Japan Expo in July 2013 Nomura himself had this to say about this key:

• The press release for KINGDOM HEARTS III unveiled by Square Enix discusses the search for the "Key to Return Hearts." Is there anything you can tell us about that?
Nomura : There are two possible meanings of the "key." One of which is the “hardware” key, which opens doors - this is what keys are in general (laughs), and the other is the “light” key, that opens something else. In this case, it is currently unknown as to which type of key Sora must find. This is the main storyline of KINGDOM HEARTS III - Sora must go on an adventure to find the "key" without knowing what or where it is. But as you know, we can’t really say anything else on the subject (laughs).

Roxas, Skuld and Ephemer? Don't you mean Ven? ;P
It is possible that they might be a key together, or that Skuld and Ephemer are the key for the other Dandelions, while Ven is the key for Skuld and Ephemer themselves.

Another thing we have to keep in mind though is if we insinuate that the Dandelions still need to be awaken and guided to the "outside world" that means they are still somehow trapped, thus most likely also aren't the children who rebuild the world.

Still, it is too early yet to make any definitive scenario, also since so far not only is there no sign or even hint of Ven's involvement beyond Nomura's teasing that he has something to do with new developments (him having contact or getting together with Skuld and Ephemer is also just an assumption made from the art pieces), we also do not know yet what this "Unchained"-state actually is nor do we know the actual fates of the Foretellers, Luxu, the MoM and the Dandelions.
We do not even know yet for sure the nature of the world of the x-era we see, if Browser-Chi and Unchained are really another multi-layered dream like we had in DDD, if it takes all place in a copy of the Tome of Prophecies (like Pooh's book or Jiminy's journal, Maleficent does say about Sora that "nuisances can't get in" in the special episode after all) or if it even possibly takes place in someone's heart.

Or none of those...

Exactly.

True...But he does have a "major" role in KHuX linking with KH3.

The one doesn't rule out the other.
I don't understand why a "major role" has to specifically imply that he actually must directly be from the X-era, especially when it is linking with KH3. Maleficent is also slated to be involved in a "major role" and she's actually present-day Maleficent.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

You do make some very strong points with strong citations to back yourself up. Thing is though, what does Ventus get out of being a catalyst for the Dandelions if he's not a Dandelion himself? Plus, you cannot deny that Ventus Dive to the Heart is the Keyblade Graveyard, which in itself, is strongly connected to Kingdom Hearts X.

And as far as the whole medals situation goes, we don't know if the Book of Prophecies can create medals of characters that definitively exist during the X era yet. Plus, in the artwork depicted, he doesn't have the "X" on his clothing. The "X" is a sigil that Xehanort is able to use as a tracker. In both the X artwork that Ventus is shown, he doesn't have the "X" strap on his clothing.

But regardless, I'm open to this theory. And this is coming from someone who strongly believes that Ventus is from the X era.

 

[Lord Sora]

I actually like the idea of Ventus entering the realm of sleep, but what bothers me about that is his shoulder piece. He does not wear it in the illustration drawn by Nomura, and I doubt he would enter the realm of sleep without shoulder piece nor do I think he would toss it away like that. I guess that does make me think it's a younger Ventus.

On a side note I haven't played DDD and only watched some cutscenes and read info so I'm pretty sure I might've missed something.

 

[DarkosOverlord]

Well, Ansem the Wise does say that these three questions stated were the "final key" to awaken Sora, so one may perhaps deduce from this that in order to awaken a sleeping heart (aka performing a "Birth by Sleep") you need at least two things:
1. Someone with the power to awaken hearts (In Sora's case during DDD this condition was fulfilled by Riku).
2. At least three other hearts which need to be connected to the heart you want to awaken (In Sora's case those were Roxas, Ventus and Xion). The number three, besides seven and thirteen, is also important in KH and since Ansem the Wise apparently researched all this shit he knows what he's talking about. These "conditions" may also be part of the data with the resarch results Ansem put on an USB-Stick...err no, in KH you use letters in bottles apparently, and hid it inside Sora's heart somehow.

In Ventus' case for example, the one using the power to awaken hearts could again be Riku, while the three hearts connected to Ven to awaken him would be Sora, Roxas and Aqua.
In Terra's case, the one using the power is anyone's guess, but the three hearts connected to him for the "final key" would certainly be Ven, Aqua and Riku.
For Roxas, the three hearts would probably either Sora, Xion and Naminé, Sora, Xion and Lea or Naminé, Xion and Lea.

But this is of course, all shooting into the blue yet again and a deduction made from a single sentence of Ansem the Wise.
Interesting is though, that these three questions were actually a callback to KH 1, where Sora himself was asked them, and now it comes: In his own awakening, also on a fascimile of Destiny Islands and also by exactly three people: Tidus, Wakka and Selphie.
Furthermore, in the 1st Anniversary black-and-white sketch of Nomura there are five characters drawn, Ephemer, Skuld, Ventus and two unknowns, this may also have yet another meaning.

One thing that I often say is that no matter how much I like searching for clues and theories, not anything can be a theory or have a specific meaning.
Especially when dealing with a scene such as the Data-Ansem one, where metaphors and throwbacks are everywhere.
Indeed that might just be the case with the Ventus-Roxas-Xion meeting.

Aside from that, a little note: let us all remember Ansem the Wise is indeed smart, but not perfect.
He failed or refused to notice a lot of things and got them wrong: I'm not saying he is now, but it's always a possibility he got something off.

The last thing I want for the KH series to do is to pull another character X is actually character Y in reality. It's hard enough to keep an overview with the countless forms and variants of Xehanort.

Yup.

I don't understand why a "major role" has to specifically imply that he actually must directly be from the X-era, especially when it is linking with KH3. Maleficent is also slated to be involved in a "major role" and she's actually present-day Maleficent.

I guess most people are still used to see each character just in his/her own closed universe that is their game, so it might take some time until the idea "everything and everyone will converge together" sinks in.
But that's definitely the case, a lot of character are going to solve or take on questions from the past, so Ventus could indeed be linked with X without being a Dandy.

You do make some very strong points with strong citations to back yourself up. Thing is though, what does Ventus get out of being a catalyst for the Dandelions if he's not a Dandelion himself? Plus, you cannot deny that Ventus Dive to the Heart is the Keyblade Graveyard, which in itself, is strongly connected to Kingdom Hearts X.

And as far as the whole medals situation goes, we don't know if the Book of Prophecies can create medals of characters that definitively exist during the X era yet. Plus, in the artwork depicted, he doesn't have the "X" on his clothing. The "X" is a sigil that Xehanort is able to use as a tracker. In both the X artwork that Ventus is shown, he doesn't have the "X" strap on his clothing.

But regardless, I'm open to this theory. And this is coming from someone who strongly believes that Ventus is from the X era.

Well, he can be the inheritor, as Sora and Riku inherited Aqua and Terra, symbolically or literally.
Or he can be the vehicle for the Dandelions, if they're really still sleeping.

I sure hope the Book can or that it isn't relevant canon-wise, cause I really want the Foretellers Medals sometime.

I actually like the idea of Ventus entering the realm of sleep, but what bothers me about that is his shoulder piece. He does not wear it in the illustration drawn by Nomura, and I doubt he would enter the realm of sleep without shoulder piece nor do I think he would toss it away like that. I guess that does make me think it's a younger Ventus.

On a side note I haven't played DDD and only watched some cutscenes and read info so I'm pretty sure I might've missed something.

Well, the shoulder pad is only form Eraqus onwards, he didn't have it with Xehanort either (probably because he deemed defending against the Darkness futile.)
Then again, the Darkness in the Realm of Dreams is different, and Sora and Riku didn't required protection either.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Let me point out beforehand that this is exactly how I like a decent debate/idea-thread to work out.
It has been a while since we actually had KH material vague/up to interpretation enough that several different theories can sprout from it where almost none can be decisively jossed.

The main point is thus also not necessarily to convince other people to change sides and believe in your personal favorite theory and poking holes in other theories is not to degrade or dismiss them, but it is more like a game of ping-pong exchanging further ideas and observations looking how often you can pass the "ball" around and share new things. ^__^

This does bring back some of the feelings of the old Days where most theories were like this.

You do make some very strong points with strong citations to back yourself up. Thing is though, what does Ventus get out of being a catalyst for the Dandelions if he's not a Dandelion himself? Plus, you cannot deny that Ventus Dive to the Heart is the Keyblade Graveyard, which in itself, is strongly connected to Kingdom Hearts X.

And as far as the whole medals situation goes, we don't know if the Book of Prophecies can create medals of characters that definitively exist during the X era yet. Plus, in the artwork depicted, he doesn't have the "X" on his clothing. The "X" is a sigil that Xehanort is able to use as a tracker. In both the X artwork that Ventus is shown, he doesn't have the "X" strap on his clothing.

But regardless, I'm open to this theory. And this is coming from someone who strongly believes that Ventus is from the X era.

Why thank you.
Let me turn the whole thing around: Why does Ventus have to "get out" something from helping/being a catalyst for the Dandelions, and why does he have to be one in order to help them? I don't get the logic behind that.

What did Ventus get out of helping Jaq with Cinderella's dress?
What did Ventus get out of escorting Snow White through the dark forest?
What did he get out of helping Hercules and Zack with their training?
What did he get out of helping Stitch in Deep Space?
What did he get out of helping the three fairies to free Aurora's captured heart?

To me it looks more like Ventus is generally a guy who likes to offer help to others, sometimes regardless of his own possible peril, in his report concerning Ven Xehanort even takes note that he's "too benign" for his own good, and that was before the whole heart split/Vanitas-disaster.
Ephemer and Skuld are not exactly assholes, so them and Ven would probably get along pretty fine and since Ventus apparently cannot wake up by himself, it is not rocket science to assume that he would agree to help out Ephemer and Skuld in any way he can.
Correction: Ven's Awakening station displays the Badlands, not the Keyblade Graveyard, there are no dead Keyblades visible in both versions of his Awakening stations. We know that Awakening stations can change, as seen with Sora's as well and there is another thing to point out that I admittedly have overlooked until now as well:
We never see young Ventus' original Awakening platform, as the two we do see are both "post-split" platforms, meaning Ven by then already lost all memories from his life before the split. The platform is first completely white, signifying Ven's total memory loss and the damage to his heart. The second platform we see (the one that got omitted in 2.5 HD for whatever stupid reason) is after connecting with Sora's heart to stablilize his own, showing him without the "X-strap" and the shoulder armor as that is how he looked while being Xehanort's pupil. On that platform is depicted the Badlands, which apparently was the place where Xehanort performed most of Ven's training and which is depicted because that place was the catalyst to how Ventus' current station (the post-split-heart) came to be.
The third and last of Ven's platform has some minor, but significant changes including his friend's wayfinders and his "current" appearance with shoulder armor and the straps holding his own Eraqus symbol.
We see during BBS that Ventus regains memories from how Vanitas was created, but there is no indication he gets back memories from his life before the incident, including possibly his own true homeworld.

Or, to give a short version: Ven's station of awakening depicts the Badlands because this world was the catalyst for a huge change in his life, the heart-split disaster which forced Ventus to "rebuilt" his damaged heart after Sora stabilized it. This world was the starting point and thus the origin of the build-up heart Ventus developed over the four years between the split and actual BBS proper.

The Badlands are not only strongly connected to KH X, it's also strongly connected to BBS and a pivotal place for Ventus' entire existence due to what happened there.

Yea, Ventus actually didn't have that strap until he formally started training under Eraqus (read: was stable enough to train with Terra and Aqua). Even when Ventus first came to Eraqus, he was still unstable for a not exactly specified period of time and during that period he also had no shoulder armor and X-strap, as seen when Aqua watches at his bed-side after Terra's barrage of questions sent unstable Ven into a coma. We do not know how long he kept sleeping like this nor if he experienced such a breakdown more than once afterwards.
We know that Ven lives four years with Aqua, Terra and Eraqus, but we do not know how long it took for his heart to be stabilized enough that he could start training and thus gain the straps and shoulder pauldron.
BBS 0.2 is slated to also go plenty back in terms of the timeline (to the point where Mickey searches for the KK D) so it is even possible that Ventus first meets and interacts with Ephemer and Skuld during the time period he's in a coma four years before BBS.

The possibilities how to connect Ventus with the X-chi cast and/or the Dandelions are very vast and versatile, so I certainly do not see why him actually hailing directly from the chi-era is more probable than the others nor why it has to be that way.
On the contrary, I do not see why such an approach would do Ventus as a character any good as it only serves to kickstart yet another identity-crisis/Who-am-I-truly rollercoaster which the KH series has already done to death with Riku Replica, Roxas, Xion and Ventus himself during BBS proper.

I actually like the idea of Ventus entering the realm of sleep, but what bothers me about that is his shoulder piece. He does not wear it in the illustration drawn by Nomura, and I doubt he would enter the realm of sleep without shoulder piece nor do I think he would toss it away like that. I guess that does make me think it's a younger Ventus.

On a side note I haven't played DDD and only watched some cutscenes and read info so I'm pretty sure I might've missed something.

Uh, Ventus' heart was nearly totally smashed at the end of BBS and it is not yet clear or can be insinuated that Ventus originally enters the Realm of Sleep on his own accord.
The first time Ven's heart was injured he had severe memory problems afterward, so it is not out of the question that the second time does that too.
Him having not having the shoulder pauldron can thus also have different reasons. Sora and Riku also changed clothes due to Yen Sid when they entered the RoS and we do know that Ventus' actual physical body, as shown in the last scene of DDD in the chamber of waking, still has the pauldron.

One thing that I often say is that no matter how much I like searching for clues and theories, not anything can be a theory or have a specific meaning.
Especially when dealing with a scene such as the Data-Ansem one, where metaphors and throwbacks are everywhere.
Indeed that might just be the case with the Ventus-Roxas-Xion meeting.

Aside from that, a little note: let us all remember Ansem the Wise is indeed smart, but not perfect.
He failed or refused to notice a lot of things and got them wrong: I'm not saying he is now, but it's always a possibility he got something off.


Yup.



I guess most people are still used to see each character just in his/her own closed universe that is their game, so it might take some time until the idea "everything and everyone will converge together" sinks in.
But that's definitely the case, a lot of character are going to solve or take on questions from the past, so Ventus could indeed be linked with X without being a Dandy.


I sure hope the Book can or that it isn't relevant canon-wise, cause I really want the Foretellers Medals sometime.

I know, lol, I was just engaging with Ballad's observation in order to perhaps get a little more detail on what he means exactly with it.
I've also written that I am not sold on it being actual intentional foreshadowing, especially since despite all observations and ideas shared we do not have a single clue yet what Ventus' actual role or involvement actually will be.
Unchained X's story updates so far do not give a single hint (although to be fair, Unchained has not build further upon Maleficent as well up to now, most story updates, including the newest one with Castle of Dreams, are so far filler where nothing truly important happens)

Indeed, he himself admitted that after all.

This is one of my pet peeves alongside no more clones, lol. No more clones and no more character X is actually character Y, these are basically the only two "wishes" I have for KH to not repeat storywise.

You got it, that's exactly what I mean. KH is about connections after all and while Sora is stated and shown to do it the most, it is also made clear that other characters can have that too. Ventus can be even closely connected with someone or something from the chi-era to get the needed effect, he doesn't need to be directly from the past in any shape or form.

Foreteller-medals wouldn't make sense though as the cards/medals symbolize power from the future to be used by the wielders. The Foretellers are certainly not elements of the future, they're from the past (or the present when looking from the chi-era's point of view). The powers of the Foretellers don't need to be summoned via the book, they are already present in Daybreak Town.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Why thank you.
Let me turn the whole thing around: Why does Ventus have to "get out" something from helping/being a catalyst for the Dandelions, and why does he have to be one in order to help them? I don't get the logic behind that.

What did Ventus get out of helping Jaq with Cinderella's dress?
What did Ventus get out of escorting Snow White through the dark forest?
What did he get out of helping Hercules and Zack with their training?
What did he get out of helping Stitch in Deep Space?
What did he get out of helping the three fairies to free Aurora's captured heart?

To me it looks more like Ventus is generally a guy who likes to offer help to others, sometimes regardless of his own possible peril, in his report concerning Ven Xehanort even takes note that he's "too benign" for his own good, and that was before the whole heart split/Vanitas-disaster.
Ephemer and Skuld are not exactly assholes, so them and Ven would probably get along pretty fine and since Ventus apparently cannot wake up by himself, it is not rocket science to assume that he would agree to help out Ephemer and Skuld in any way he can.

But it's not as simple as "being a helpful person" when it comes to the Dandelions. Master Ava has intentionally selected people to survive beyond the Keyblade War. Surely, Ventus would question that and would expect all the wielders who follow the Unions to survive beyond the Keyblade War and not just the ones that Ava selected as her "Dandelions". That's why I asked, "What does Ventus get out of it?". Sure, I should have elaborated more on that phrase (that was a fault on my part), however, Ventus would have to have a morally good reason to abandon others just for a select few to travel beyond the Keyblade War.

But if Ventus was to actually originate from the X era and was the wind of the Dandelions as you've elaborated upon, that'd make much more sense. He's a chosen Dandelion and would be designated as the guiding wind that helps the Dandelions out, and once he's able to make it into the outside world with the Dandelions, he splits from his friends and end up being found by Xehanort.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

But it's not as simple as "being a helpful person" when it comes to the Dandelions. Master Ava has intentionally selected people to survive beyond the Keyblade War. Surely, Ventus would question that and would expect all the wielders who follow the Unions to survive beyond the Keyblade War and not just the ones that Ava selected as her "Dandelions". That's why I asked, "What does Ventus get out of it?". Sure, I should have elaborated more on that phrase (that was a fault on my part), however, Ventus would have to have a morally good reason to abandon others just for a select few to travel beyond the Keyblade War.

But if Ventus was to actually originate from the X era and was the wind of the Dandelions as you've elaborated upon, that'd make much more sense. He's a chosen Dandelion and would be designated as the guiding wind that helps the Dandelions out, and once he's able to make it into the outside world with the Dandelions, he splits from his friends and end up being found by Xehanort.

Except that I don't get why you suddenly construct a moral dilemma out of this Ventus would not know about nor reasonably have regardless if he's present-day Ventus connecting with the x-era or truly someone who lived back in the past.
Present-day Ventus would not know about the wider details about the whole Dandelion-issue and most certainly not participate in the actual (most likely dream-repeated) events of the Foreteller sitcom-drama and the inevitable Keyblade War (which cannot be prevented in any form anyways because it already happened), but solely assist Ephemer and Skuld in their quest to guide the Dandelions. Ephemer and Skuld also do not know all details like we the audience get to see.

A possible past-Ventus would also not question the whole thing since if he did he wouldn't have joined the Dandelions in the first place and instead worry about the other wielders too, like Player did.
Likewise, he would also have no insight on the bigger picture either, just as much as Ephemer and/or Skuld know.


I'm sorry but I don't see why this makes so much more sense than the much simpler observation of making a present-day connection via both Ventus and Maleficent to the past characters.
There are as many variants that work with a present-day Ventus and already established concepts than making needlessly complicated elaborate scenarios that stem from nothing but the single visual difference of a missing shoulder armor pauldron which holds also true for an actual present-day Ventus (present-day meaning in the actual KH-era, not the x-era, as the pauldron-less Ventus exists also in the current era, for as long until Eraqus rewards him with the piece once his heart is stable again) and the awakening station background which I also provided possible different explanations for.
Using the power of the future to try and avert disasters is a huge theme in X itself, so why Ventus has to originate from the x-era to actually be the guiding wind in question I do not really understand.

That he already successfully led the Dandelions to the current world and then split from them to move in with Xehanort is shaky at best, there is no indication or hint that there is actually a connection between that.
Why would Ventus even do that, especially when he's friends with Ephemer and Skuld?
The assumption that Xehanort took Ventus in because of any already existing direct connection to the x-era is shaky at best and nowhere is there actually a hint specifically for this. It isn't more probable than the other possibilities.

Also, for already having led the Dandelions into the current world, how is that possible? We haven't seen any of the Dandelions in the actual KH-era and if there were any, the whole x-era wouldn't be considered a legend because then there would be hundreds of people, including Ephemer and Skuld, who could give eye-witness accounts of the "age of fairytales". Back in the decade before BBS Xeanort, who's so interested about that time period, would have had hundreds of opportunities to get first-hand information if the Dandelions were actually released into the current era already.

Or, to make it even shorter, not counting personal preference what is actually the point of Ventus needing to be an actual character hailing from the past?

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Except that I don't get why you suddenly construct a moral dilemma out of this Ventus would not know about nor reasonably have regardless is he's present-day Ventus connecting with the x-era or truly someone who lived back in the past.
Present-day Ventus would not know about the wider details about the whole Dandelion-issue and most certainly not participate in the actual (most likely dream-repeated) events of the Foreteller sitcom-drama and the inevitable Keyblade War (which cannot be prevented in any form anyways because it already happened), but solely assist Ephemer and Skuld in their quest to guide the Dandelions.

A possible past-Ventus would also not question the whole thing since if he did he wouldn't have joined the Dandelions in the first place and instead worry about the other wielders too, like Player did.

Actually, Ventus pre Birth by Sleep and Ventus Birth by Sleep can be considered as two different characters. You do remember that Ventus was equal parts light and darkness before Xehanort extracted him right? You could make the counter-argument that Xehanort found Ventus as a person who had too much light in him anyway, but what was Ventus like before meeting Xehanort?

After Ventus' darkness was extracted from him, he basically became a being of pure light. That version of Ventus would have a moral dilemma, because as a being of light, he'd want to be as heroic and as helpful as possible. But if we consider Ventus as a person who was equal parts light/dark before meeting Xehanort, we cannot assume the exact same characteristics as the Ventus we know. Clearly, Ventus had a Darkness powerful enough to form its own being. Surely, that affected his personality in some capacity when he was equal parts light/dark.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that, if Ventus was to be from the X era, not only would his mindset be different because he's equal parts light/dark, but, he'd also have different from a person native to the X era and an outsider. Ventus as an outsider would try to help everyone because he considers himself a guest in a new world. Ventus from the X era on the other hand would more than likely be a character who has joined the Union and has been selected by Ava to be a Dandelion. I am speaking hypothetically here, but I just don't buy present day Ventus being involved with the events of X just because he's a "helpful person".

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Actually, Ventus pre Birth by Sleep and Ventus Birth by Sleep can be considered as two different characters. You do remember that Ventus was equal parts light and darkness before Xehanort extracted him right? You could make the counter-argument that Xehanort found Ventus as a person who had too much light in him anyway, but what was Ventus like before meeting Xehanort?

After Ventus' darkness was extracted from him, he basically became a being of pure light. That version of Ventus would have a moral dilemma, because as a being of light, he'd want to be as heroic and as helpful as possible. But if we consider Ventus as a person who was equal parts light/dark before meeting Xehanort, we cannot assume the exact same characteristics as the Ventus we know. Clearly, Ventus had a Darkness powerful enough to form its own being. Surely, that affected his personality in some capacity when he was equal parts light/dark.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that, if Ventus was to be from the X era, not only would his mindset be different because he's equal parts light/dark, but, he'd also have different from a person native to the X era and an outsider. Ventus as an outsider would try to help everyone because he considers himself a guest in a new world. Ventus from the X era on the other hand would more than likely be a character who has joined the Union and has been selected by Ava to be a Dandelion. I am speaking hypothetically here, but I just don't buy present day Ventus being involved with the events of X just because he's a "helpful person".

Haha, I really like the ferventness you go with into these things. xD

Except that this too is nothing but conjecture and assumptions. Xehanort explicitly points out in his reports that pre-split Ventus was "too benign for his own good" which is not much of a difference to post-split/restored BBS-Ventus.
The equal light/dark claim can also not be made as it is not only virtually impossible to maintain an exact balance between the elements in a heart, children (which Ventus was, he was 10 or 11) tend to generally have vastly more light than darkness in them as Ansem the Wise explains. Darkness only grows inside a child's heart if fostered and considering the part missing from Ventus' awakening station in the Prologue was even less than a quarter I have a hard time believing the whole "equal-or-more-darkness"-claim that some people apparently feel the need to constantly make.

Last time I checked people with hearts of pure light are not always as heroic and helpful as possible, it depends on their individual traits which may very well be independent from the amount of light/dark in their hearts.
I do consider "largely" the same Ventus as we know because that is what literally is implicated by the Xehanort report, it is the only information we have on pre-split Ventus besides the Heartless-flashback in which he is a terrified child insecure of himself and his own power.
The main difference between pre- and post-split (or rather, 4years-training with Terra and Aqua)-Ventus I can take a hold of is that post-split Ven is way more emotionally stable, has a better sense of self-worth/self-confidence and is somewhat eager to tackle challenges rather than fear them. These things however can be certainly mostly attributed to Eraqus, Terra and Aqua providing Ven with a much better learning environment and actually seeing him as a person rather than the abusive and ax-crazy Master Xehanort who always saw him only as a tool for his ambitions and was actively trying to have him succumb to darkness all the time (remember that Xehanort's first intention was to use Ven as a new vessel).
I feel especially this last part is something very many people seem to forget or ignore when looking at the whole Vanitas-creation-debacle. It was a last-ditch/losing patience action on Xehanort's part because no matter what the shitty old fart tried, Ventus would not succumb to or use darkness in any way.

I don't really get from where you pull the "Ventus had a powerful darkness"-bit from as that is nowhere implicated at all. On the contrary, Xehanort states that "Vanitas took too much of Ventus' heart" (aka more than he was supposed to), which implicates more that the part of Ven's heart that was initially darkness was not enough to sustain Vanitas as a new being, hence why he disrupted and took more of the light part away as well as turning it into darkness in the process.

Furthermore, since so far Ventus is the only known case of having one element of the heart extracted and formed into a new being we do not have anything to compare it to nor any viable information on how "powerful" one's darkness has to be to allow a new being to be born.

There seem to be no problems buying Ven (or Sora, for that matter) being "helpful persons" with only select Disney characters though so I really wonder why it should be so massively different here.
If this really takes place during one of Ven's numerous coma-episodes (including the ten year+ one he's in atm) and is related somewhat to the Realm of Sleep it is not really illogical that Ventus would experience something similar to what Riku and Sora did during DDD.
Nomura did state that it is random in which sleeping world you end up in when you first enter the Realm of Sleep, but Ventus ending up exactly there can already be explained by him having formed a connection to the X era by simply having gained his own Keyblade via Luxu's Keyblade which deemed him worthy of being a wielder. There is no real need to go the extra step and make Ventus a character that actually hails from the past.
He is sleeping, he is most likely dreaming, we have the still unknown actual status of what the events and locations of both browser-chi and Unchained chi actually are, Dream eaters are involved, Maleficent implies very strongly that present-day characters can have somehow access to "this world" by simply appearing there, there is an implied connection Ventus has to the x-era already so in my view it is really just like putting 1 + 1 together and using the most simple explanation with Occam's Razor that requires the least bit of detailed speculation and conjecture.

The actual how and why that is possible and how it works is something for either Unchained X, X Back Cover or even KH III to explain.
Who knows, maybe even 0.2 will drop some subtle hints towards this possible connection due to Aqua's own connection with Ven?