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Non-spoiler Theory: The Fortellers are Dream Eaters



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Ballad of Caius

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Strangely, Ira's eyes are the only ones that changed (up until now). Either he's the traitor, or his Nightmare version replaced him at some point.

Iunno, just a suggestion to an already interesting theory.
 

Hirokey123

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You know I kinda figured they just made his eyes red counteract that they made the red gem on his BC mask so small you can barely see it, thus that nice bit of red contrast present on the Chi model is lost on the BC model. So to keep that clear bit of red they just tweaked his mask a bit so the eyes are red to. If you notice they did other small detail changes on his mask as well. Like the Chi model has 3 white stripes at the base of the horn while the BC model has only 2 white stripes at the base of the horn. On the BC model there is a small line running down from the eye to the bottom of the mask in a sort of silver coloration that isn't present on the Chi model.

It could also be that earlier on while Nomura was still writing the plot he hadn't thought of things like Ira being the leader yet, hence why that's a story element not present in Chi like at all really. But for BC he decided then to make Ira the leader and give this whole leadership fight with Aced, right around the time Chi was starting to near its end. So to give Ira a small sign in his design that he is the leader of the foretellers he gave the mask a different eye color.

I dunno I just don't actually think this detail is all that significant, especially given the role the team has been on with making all kinds of graphical errors...errors they've only fixed a handful of via patches.
 

Alpha Baymax

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Looks like we're going to get one of these for each Foreteller:
C2qKsjqW8AIYuA7.jpg

Yeah, wouldn't have exptected anything else tbh

Shame on me, I jumped the gun way too early. Should have considered the obvious before jumping to a conclusion like that.

You know I kinda figured they just made his eyes red counteract that they made the red gem on his BC mask so small you can barely see it, thus that nice bit of red contrast present on the Chi model is lost on the BC model. So to keep that clear bit of red, they just tweaked his mask a bit so the eyes are red too. If you notice they did other small detail changes on his mask as well. Like the Chi model has 3 white stripes at the base of the horn while the BC model has only 2 white stripes at the base of the horn. On the BC model there is a small line running down from the eye to the bottom of the mask in a sort of silver coloration that isn't present on the Chi model.

Wow, I never spotted all those other potential changes to the model. Well, that’s creative and artistic liberties for you. Sometimes, it’s a shame that Kingdom Hearts is a franchise that heavily relies on visual cures for its storytelling, because you really don’t know if something’s changed for creative reasons or as part of the grander narrative.

It could also be that earlier on while Nomura was still writing the plot he hadn't thought of things like Ira being the leader yet, hence why that's a story element not present in Chi like at all really. But for BC he decided then to make Ira the leader and give this whole leadership fight with Aced, right around the time Chi was starting to near its end. So to give Ira a small sign in his design that he is the leader of the foretellers he gave the mask a different eye color.

I dunno I just don't actually think this detail is all that significant, especially given the role the team has been on with making all kinds of graphical errors...errors they've only fixed a handful of via patches.

That is another consideration. At the earliest inception of X’s narrative, it was just a browser version of Kingdom Hearts that wasn’t even considered to be narratively important at first. It’s only once they added Ephemera and Skuld and opened up Master Ava as a character did things start to flesh out as its own sub-category of the Kingdom Hearts narrative.

I suppose Ira having the red eyes to signify his leadership would be a subtle but understandable justification.

Strangely, Ira's eyes are the only ones that changed (up until now). Either he's the traitor, or his Nightmare version replaced him at some point.

Iunno, just a suggestion to an already interesting theory.

To be fair, you did open up the possibility of the Fortellers being Dream Eaters in the first place. I just added a lot of symbolism that could further indicate that being the case. Though, I feel as though Ira was a Nightmare all along. Just the fact that him (and the other Fortellers) were unaware that they were artificial dream eaters to begin with (and that Ira is the traitor because he's the only Nightmare in the Forteller assemblage).
 

Sephiroth0812

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I'm actually wondering what the titles for the other three will be.

So far we have "Leader" for Ira and "Warrior" for Aced, for Invi I can fathom it being either "Observer or Traitor" or "Mediator or Traitor" but I'm currently at a loss as to which title would fit most for Ava and Gula.
 

Alpha Baymax

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I'm actually wondering what the titles for the other three will be.

So far we have "Leader" for Ira and "Warrior" for Aced, for Invi I can fathom it being either "Observer or Traitor" or "Mediator or Traitor" but I'm currently at a loss as to which title would fit most for Ava and Gula.

I have a feeling that Ava would be "Messenger or Traitor" in the context that she gives the message to form the Dandelions. Gula is the hardest to pinpoint though...
 

Hirokey123

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Gula Hunter (Or seeker)
Ava Hope
Invi Mediator

That is what I imagine them being
 

Sephiroth0812

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Gula Hunter (Or seeker)
Ava Hope
Invi Mediator

That is what I imagine them being


Hmm, does sound somewhat fitting, with all of them being totally on spot.

Ava's certainly the one who works on a "failsafe"-plan in case of the worst-case scenario happening, cementing the "hope"-moniker.


The first variant for Gula would arguably fit more with his intended role and the information he reveals to Skuld in the final two updates of Browser-Chi,
while the "Seeker" variant for could also possibly serve for quite a double meaning which I don't know about being intended since a) the already known "Seekers of Darkness" and b)

Spoiler Spoiler Show
 

Ballad of Caius

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Shame on me, I jumped the gun way too early. Should have considered the obvious before jumping to a conclusion like that.



Wow, I never spotted all those other potential changes to the model. Well, that’s creative and artistic liberties for you. Sometimes, it’s a shame that Kingdom Hearts is a franchise that heavily relies on visual cures for its storytelling, because you really don’t know if something’s changed for creative reasons or as part of the grander narrative.



That is another consideration. At the earliest inception of X’s narrative, it was just a browser version of Kingdom Hearts that wasn’t even considered to be narratively important at first. It’s only once they added Ephemera and Skuld and opened up Master Ava as a character did things start to flesh out as its own sub-category of the Kingdom Hearts narrative.

I suppose Ira having the red eyes to signify his leadership would be a subtle but understandable justification.



To be fair, you did open up the possibility of the Fortellers being Dream Eaters in the first place. I just added a lot of symbolism that could further indicate that being the case. Though, I feel as though Ira was a Nightmare all along. Just the fact that him (and the other Fortellers) were unaware that they were artificial dream eaters to begin with (and that Ira is the traitor because he's the only Nightmare in the Forteller assemblage).

I don't remember suggesting they were Dream Eaters, but rather the other member that suggested they were based on alchemy and they should have alchemy symbols hidden, but then suggested it's possible that, due to Chirity already being a MoM creation, the Foretellers are also hiding their Dream Eater identities.
 

Ballad of Caius

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OMG Ava is described as a Seeker, THAT MEANS SHE'S A SEEKER OF DARKNES!!!1111111111111111!!!!1!11!1

---

Joking aside, I wonder how the original (if they existed) Guardians and Seekers will add to the KHx lore.
 

Morgenstern

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We got the "Seeker" title, although not for the one proposed:
C2qNVEeW8AE1LU0.jpg

Oh boy I can't wait to see How Xehanort gets her into his little gang :p

But seriously, given that they only used "Seeker: in one other context (well "The Gathering" aside), and that the writers and staff seem to be very detail-oriented, I question why the choice of title.

I wonder, if she has anything to do with the words that popped up all the ay back to vanilla KH2's secret ending?

Spoiler Spoiler Show
 

Hirokey123

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Hrm the seeker title (at least I called someone having even if I called the wrong person) is interesting because of the implications. On one hand there is the obvious ones like her seeking out dandelions. But you could view it in another way, of all the foretellers Ava was the only one who to the bitter end was seeking a way to change their fate. Hunting down the traitor was not her job, heck she wanted to believe there was no traitor, but she kept seeking anyway. Eventually seeking out Luxu where in she attacked him believing that he was the traitor and she could end all of this right now if she took him out. It was sad, it was desperate, and all Ava ultimately wanted was the truth but once she got the truth that hopeful girl we know had been the one most against the war went on to fight anyway. When we next talk to her she sounds broken, defeated, and her only words of advice is that some truth shouldn't be known. So when you consider her seeking for answers and how her story ultimately result in her finding a truth she refuses to face/accept, the title of seeker does actually fit her quite well. It would certainly be interesting though if Ava ended up a seeker of darkness just because she is the last person you could see that.

You know part of me hopes that Ava found a way to save her friends. While the MoM seemed to imply they won't live in reality we know he can only write what that keyblade saw. Ava was able to send the Dandelions away to place of protection the other foretellers can't reach, so maybe just maybe she found a way to send her fellow foretellers to a place of protection to. I always liked to imagine this what-if scenario where the 5 foretellers clash and Ava in a final moment of desperation to stop her friends from destroying one another does the only thing she can, she raises her keyblade and with a scream she locks each of them away in another world outside all this like the dandelions. But the battle was too much for her and that last bit she did took all the energy she had left. Ava collapses and dies fading into light to leave not a trace. Without Ava her friends are never released and so with her last breath while she saved them she also imprisoned them. But in this way she's has preserved hope for if one day someone can free them then they can go on living, in a time where the war and fear of the end that fueled their conflict is long past.

Of course that's totally baseless but it's a nicer thought than assuming the foretellers all murdered one another in cold blood, never resolving their problems, never repairing their friendship, and never finding out the truth behind everything.
 

Ballad of Caius

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I wonder if one of the remaining Foretellers will have the title of "Chaser". It was something introduced in the flying letters in "the Gathering" KH2 secret ending, but was never explored beyond being just a word.
 

Muke

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Iirc "Chasers" was the original name for TAV? Before they had an actual design and all
 

Sephiroth0812

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Oh boy I can't wait to see How Xehanort gets her into his little gang :p

But seriously, given that they only used "Seeker: in one other context (well "The Gathering" aside), and that the writers and staff seem to be very detail-oriented, I question why the choice of title.

I wonder, if she has anything to do with the words that popped up all the ay back to vanilla KH2's secret ending?

Spoiler Spoiler Show

Pfft, lol, considering Nomura's penchant for "surprises" and extra twists that could even be a viable possibility somehow.

The official Twitter message coming with the picture does speak about her task of "preparing strong Keyblade Wielders for the incoming Darkness" and in order to do just that she has to seek out strong hearts beforehand so in this vein it would fit somewhat outside the "Seeker of Darkness"-meaning.

The words in vanilla KH2's secret ending were "Chasers" though if I recall correctly, not Seekers.

Spoiler Spoiler Show


Hrm the seeker title (at least I called someone having even if I called the wrong person) is interesting because of the implications. On one hand there is the obvious ones like her seeking out dandelions. But you could view it in another way, of all the foretellers Ava was the only one who to the bitter end was seeking a way to change their fate. Hunting down the traitor was not her job, heck she wanted to believe there was no traitor, but she kept seeking anyway. Eventually seeking out Luxu where in she attacked him believing that he was the traitor and she could end all of this right now if she took him out. It was sad, it was desperate, and all Ava ultimately wanted was the truth but once she got the truth that hopeful girl we know had been the one most against the war went on to fight anyway. When we next talk to her she sounds broken, defeated, and her only words of advice is that some truth shouldn't be known. So when you consider her seeking for answers and how her story ultimately result in her finding a truth she refuses to face/accept, the title of seeker does actually fit her quite well. It would certainly be interesting though if Ava ended up a seeker of darkness just because she is the last person you could see that.

You know part of me hopes that Ava found a way to save her friends. While the MoM seemed to imply they won't live in reality we know he can only write what that keyblade saw. Ava was able to send the Dandelions away to place of protection the other foretellers can't reach, so maybe just maybe she found a way to send her fellow foretellers to a place of protection to. I always liked to imagine this what-if scenario where the 5 foretellers clash and Ava in a final moment of desperation to stop her friends from destroying one another does the only thing she can, she raises her keyblade and with a scream she locks each of them away in another world outside all this like the dandelions. But the battle was too much for her and that last bit she did took all the energy she had left. Ava collapses and dies fading into light to leave not a trace. Without Ava her friends are never released and so with her last breath while she saved them she also imprisoned them. But in this way she's has preserved hope for if one day someone can free them then they can go on living, in a time where the war and fear of the end that fueled their conflict is long past.

Of course that's totally baseless but it's a nicer thought than assuming the foretellers all murdered one another in cold blood, never resolving their problems, never repairing their friendship, and never finding out the truth behind everything.

I think in DDD Yen Sid also spoke of the "Seeker's life" in general so it may be a given that it can have a multitude of meanings with not all of them connected to the Seekers "of Darkness".
If one wants to put it in even more general terms, the entire KH series is somewhat full of "seekers" in one form or another.

In KH 1, Sora is a seeker in the form of looking everywhere for Riku and Kairi, a task which carries on into KH 2 while stopping a bunch of villains on the way.
Donald and Goofy also fit as they search for their King, they're also seeking something.
In CoM, all three of them seek the truth about memories and the mysterious Naminé.

In BBS, TAV are also all seekers, with Terra seeking a way to control his Darkness, get his Master's/father figures approval, attain his dream of becoming a Keyblade Master and last but not least find the strength to protect those he holds dear the most (Aqua and Ven).
Ventus is searching for answers regarding both Terra and his own nebulous past as well as to get a broader and more refined view on how friendships works while Aqua is seeking for a way to balance out her feelings of attachment and friendship for Ven and Terra with her duties and obligations of her new Master title as well as to protect "her boys" from Xehanort's machinations.

Roxas' entire life basically revolves around seeking and finding answers as does Xion's and to a certain degree even Axel/Lea.

As on the "Ava is a seeker of darkness"-bit honestly I can see her and possibly more if not even all the Foretellers like that, mainly due to Nomura's knack for mucking the storyline up for the sheer sake of surprises. In that vein, I wouldn't be surprised either if the 13th turned out to be either Skuld or Ephemer somehow.

Heh, interesting theory, although on that last part about never finding out the truth behind everything I dare assume that this is intentional as finding out the whole truth behind it all is probably one of the "wham"-points of KH III itself.
 

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