News ► Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua's Reveal



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Sephiroth0812

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua‘s Reveal

To his credit once you know the reveal in hindsight I've found you can see evidence of this idea going all the way back to BBS.
Could it be you're thinking among a similar line I did in another thread?

Yea no, Sora is more in the same category as Terra in terms that he's determined to resist and oppose Xehanort and therefore he had to resort to more elaborate schemes.
Speaking of elaborate efforts to incapacitate heroes directly opposing him, I realize that maybe Xehanort did this with Aqua as well, although in a more indirect approach by letting the Realm of Darkness itself doing "most of the work" with Xehanort himself only making sure to keep any help Aqua could get busy with other things until it will be too late.
Like the moment Xehanort knew Aqua is trapped in the RoD he decided to let its properties and effects slowly wear down Aqua's formidable defenses in order to strike when she's exhausted enough?

Using his other plans to keep everyone who could help her busy until her time spent in the RoD became too long?
It's a devious thing but something I can see Xehanort pulling off from the sidelines.
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua�s Reveal

I find it kinda funny Nomura is surprised Aquanort got a bigger reaction than the Frozen reveal. We all knew that movie was a shoo-in from the very beginning, so it's not like we'd be surprised to see it. I think even PotC got a bigger reaction since we weren't really expecting it.

Also, it's just human nature to react more to what's shown last, especially when it had a better buildup than "Oh look, Frozen is here."



I'm inclined to agree.
Possible translation nuances aside, in the text of the Gameinformer interview it is worded like Nomura considers the "Aqua reveal" small fry compared to what else KH III has in store story wise so he's surprised about the fanbase already nearly freaking out on this one and wonders if "everyone will be okay" when further revelations happen down the marketing phase or if the minds of the fans (and the internet) will explode with these additional revelations.

Going by how Nomura talks, I am pretty sure by now that KH III will take the "it is darkest before dawn" approach and while things in BBS, Days and DDD were bad/painful for a lot of the characters it will generally get worse in KH III at least for the mid-game/early late-game period.
If that's small fry then I'm scared what else could happen!
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua‘s Reveal

At least Final Fantasy character were not denied for this entry, cause if they were, Nomura would have gone on record to say so.

I'm predicting an obligatory Final Fantasy character for Olympus (Lightning), and hopefully the Radiant Garden and Twilight Town characters returning.
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua‘s Reveal

Could it be you're thinking among a similar line I did in another thread?



Like the moment Xehanort knew Aqua is trapped in the RoD he decided to let its properties and effects slowly wear down Aqua's formidable defenses in order to strike when she's exhausted enough?

Using his other plans to keep everyone who could help her busy until her time spent in the RoD became too long?
It's a devious thing but something I can see Xehanort pulling off from the sidelines.
Actually no but that is good though, I meant more in....structure.

BBS is very heavy on how Aqua will never give into darkness, how Aqua will never fall to darkness, and as I've noticed more and more shades of Riku to her character it's hard to not see those scenes now as parallels to Riku in KH1. You know the game never like actively professes that Sora will never fall to darkness or use it, it never really makes a big deal of it but more you just assumes he won't because of how bright he is. Then Coded actually DID make a big deal on how Sora won't give into darkness, how he'll be fine no matter the pain, and literally the very next game Xehanort showed us he had a way to make Sora fall to darkness and it worked. Sora only escaped because he had all his friends there to help. BBS is handling with Aqua is similar to Sora and Riku's in that she was so certain she wouldn't be consumed by the darkness/ makes a big deal she won't fall to darkness, that it's what made her vulnerable.

Next there is the fact that BBS ever so lightly played with the idea that Aquanort could even be a thing granted we didn't KNOW it was Aquanort until it was confirmed Vanitas is half Xehanort. Extra granted it was because of Aqua's light that Vanitas was going to use her, but this was BBS subtly planting that idea in our head at all. If Vanitas had done his plan and used Aqua instead we would have had an Aquanort right there in BBS her light be damned. DDD basically existed to reinforce the the idea that no light not matter how strong is safe from Xehanort, it shakes the idea of safety by what it did to Sora.

Then there is a fact that it's established you need Aqua's memories to get to Ventus, that only she can reach him. Xehanort has for YEARS been trying to get to Ventus's body, the plot has been making a point of it pretty consistently. It brings it up so often that I think narratively it never felt like a matter of "if it will happen" but when it will happen. As soon as you establish that Aqua is the only one with the memories that can reach Ven then you basically are painting a big "Xehanort will be going after Aqua" sign. This doesn't necessarily mean he was going to nort her, there were other ways he could use her, but the fact is BBS made sure to establish a reason for Xehanort would suddenly target Aqua just by first showing us all the failed attempts to the find the room then establishing Aqua is the solution he needs.

However the most obvious hint and one that I was face palming myself for missing. There was always an argument on which MF fight was canon when it was confirmed that it was, and the Xehanort Official timeline in the KH Works implied very oddly that all 3 fights were canon. With the time travel rules that never made sense because it said there needs to be a version of yourself at both "source and destination" translation when you arrive in a time period for the first time it has to be one in which a version of yourself exists and also there needs to be a version of you AT that spot you first appear in. Young Xehanort was able to use Terra, Aqua, and Ventus all as entry points and for two of those you could argue it made sense. Terra isn't Xehanort at that moment but he's destined to become Xehanort, from say the perspective of KH1 you could easily argue Terra was a past version of Apprentice Xehanort not unlikely how Roxas's "true self" is stated to be a combination of Sora and Ventus. Likewise while Ventus to our knowledge isn't a Nort Vanitas very much is and he's half of Ventus, and if that doesn't count enough Ventus was briefly norted when Vanitas and Ventus fused to make Venitus represented very well by looking like Ventus but having Xehanort's eyes. Aqua was the only odd man out not having any conceivable moment in which she could be considered a version of Xehanort past or otherwise, until now it is. Now while the timing of the fight is still hard to figure out how it could have happened it IS possible for YX to have used any of TAV as his entry points.

On top of all this there is a lot of...weirdness surrounding Aqua. We have the obvious one like Xehanort spending years talking to her empty armor. DDD with Sora's memory of meeting Aqua, one second he's remembering meeting Aqua but the next Aqua fades away and in her place is AnsemSoD, before we can find out more the memory was forcibly ended. How the game insists that Sora would be the one to save Aqua even though that was looking less and less likely, despite the fact 0.2 basically doubled back down on it with its opening only to then say Riku and Mickey were going to. And finally the fact that 0.2 if you believe Nomura was originally intended to be part of KH3 which to me reads that 0.2 was originally meant to specifically set up Aqua's fall by establishing both Mickey's meeting and all the sudden focus on Aqua's emotional pain the game doesn't really resolve.
Also 0.2 was made using asset that were already planned for KH3 so while you could read that as Phantom Aqua was always planned....you could also start to think an Aquanort battle was planned and they just took that battle, changed the pallet to look like a normal Aqua, and then came up with an excuse for us to fight her that wouldn't make players wonder "why was there resources for an Aqua boss fight in KH3?" which I think is even more likely now that we saw Demon Tide is a boss fight in Twilight Town in KH3. (Also continues the vein of each game's main secret boss hinting at a new foe we'll fight, Julius as sort of an exception for now but I'm still convinced he will be explained because he clearly both had a vendetta and against Sora and Riku...and also an ominous red and black glow with a sound effect we never happened was seen/heard just before he comes out of the sewer...part of me wonder if it's connected to that weird red and black portal thing Mickey was in but I digress)
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua‘s Reveal

I've noticed that Nomura and someone else connected to the game has specifically said, "Aqua has fallen to darkness". Is being Norted really the equivalent to falling to darkness? I mean sure, falling to darkness can lead to being Norted obviously, but, I dunno. Why not explicitly say "Aqua succumbed to Xehanort" or something?

If Aqua is not norted, maybe the yellow eyes aren't unique to Xehanort after all? Back when we saw the first footage of young Xehanort and Eraqus playing chess, I noted that it didn't look like Xehanort's eyes were gold, or that gold was mixed in with brown. And we know from the Xehanort reports that Xehanort purposely exposed himself to the darkness at some points during his life.

Could the golden eyes and possibly pointy ears actually be a sign of darkness and not just Xehanort? This would totally explain Braig's transformation by the end of Birth by Sleep because I'm pretty sure Braig was NOT norted yet when he and Aqua fought and yet he had golden eyes (and possibly pointy ears, I don't remember)

But I thought Nomura explicitly said the eyes and ears were unique to Xehanort, or maybe I'm misremembering.
We had Ansem the wise with yellow eye
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua‘s Reveal

Oh Nomura, underestimating our love of Aqua like always. Of course she'd be more shocking than Frozen. We knew Frozen was going to be in KH3 the second it made over a billion dollars.
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua‘s Reveal

Oh Nomura, underestimating our love of Aqua like always. Of course she'd be more shocking than Frozen. We knew Frozen was going to be in KH3 the second it made over a billion dollars.
Luckily every other pick has been surprising on some level.
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua‘s Reveal

If it would have been in 2014 it's possible reactions would had been more towards Frozen, but c'mon Nomura. Original Kingdom Hearts characters are like family for fans. Of course they come first.
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua‘s Reveal

im more curiiose about other characthers that we might plays also how we get the famitsu stuff?
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua’s Reveal

the most surprising thing about aqua is we didn't think she would fall so easily to the darkness; so hes right about that. Although, she was struggling emotionally in 0.2 but Ansem the wise restored her faith, 11 years after BBS. so what changed drastically between DDD and KH3 for her to fall and with this, Nourma sort of confirmed thats really Aqua. I think we are missing some context.
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua’s Reveal

the most surprising thing about aqua is we didn't think she would fall so easily to the darkness; so hes right about that. Although, she was struggling emotionally in 0.2 but Ansem the wise restored her faith, 11 years after BBS. so what changed drastically between DDD and KH3 for her to fall and with this, Nourma sort of confirmed thats really Aqua. I think we are missing some context.
Easily?
The events of BBS itself and an unhealthy long amount spending time trapped in the Realm of Darkness have over time slowly eroded the formidable defenses of Aqua's heart.
Add on top of that in 0.2 she is given several short bouts of hope that are cruelly taken away or crushed a few minutes later, i.e. finally meeting the "real" Terra who managed to project an image to her and a "real" Ventus, who despite being incapacitated subconsciously reached out to her, yet moments later she learns that nothing changed for the better since she fell into the RoD. Ventus is still comatose and hasn't healed yet and even worse, Terra informs her that Xehanort is again after Ventus shortly before Xehanort takes over Terra and thus reveals not only that she right now revealed important info to him in regards to Ven, no she also has to realize that her sacrifice at the end of BBS which made her fall into the RoD in the first place to save Terra was in vain.
He's still trapped in Darkness and tied to Xehanort while Ven is still in danger.

The next hope spot comes when she meets Mickey (who according to the dialogue was led to her indirectly by Terra and Ven) but that too gets crushed when after finding the Kingdom Key D and fighting to shield Riku she ends up trapped again.
Sure, in the very end she gives a brave speech about how she will make the best of the current situation, but that doesn't mean she's not worn down and very exhausted from everything.

When she meets Ansem the Wise in Blank Points she's rather somber and again gets no positive news in regards to Terra and Ven, on the contrary she gets told that the worlds already nearly fell to Darkness more than once and it is only the mention of Sora and what he has done so far that lights up another spark of hope inside her.
That's around the time of Re: Coded, DDD happens afterwards and while I agree we're missing several bouts of context Aqua certainly didn't "easily" fall to the Darkness.

On the contrary it is admirable how long she managed to hang on and resist, but even the strongest hearts have their limits and when one takes a closer look her experiences aren't too different from the whole ordeal Sora was put through in DDD.

I'll drop a quote here that fits this case as well as many others of the original characters:
Morganna Mode Gone said:
"The higher up it is dropped, the worse the crash will be. Hope is the best spice to bring out despair."
This applied with enough time and perseverance will eventually break everyone, no matter how strong.
And if Xehanort is anything he's patient and perseverant.
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua’s Reveal

I remembered this scene earlier today and it makes me think Nomura really did plan for Aqua to fall the entire time. And the way Mickey brushes off her concern, this was all leading to his development too. There's no way Aqua isn't about to rip into Mickey for 'abandoning' her or blame him for everything thanks to the darkness twisting her feelings



 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua’s Reveal

I remembered this scene earlier today and it makes me think Nomura really did plan for Aqua to fall the entire time. And the way Mickey brushes off her concern, this was all leading to his development too. There's no way Aqua isn't about to rip into Mickey for 'abandoning' her or blame him for everything thanks to the darkness twisting her feelings



Ugh, this reminds me somewhat of Riku in KH 1 when Maleficent manipulated him into thinking that Sora abandoned him (and Kairi) and just replaced them with Donald and Goofy.

With Aqua having reached her breaking point and her judgement clouded by Darkness, she could be having a similar view now about Mickey replacing her, Terra and Ven with Riku and Sora, not coming to their aid because he has new allies.

If she's not completely under Xehanort's control and has some of her own agency left (Hey, Braig too can do some things of his own as can Vanitas) she might even still be interested in protecting Ven, possibly outright attacking Sora because in her Darkness-clouded view she believes Sora is holding Ventus prisoner just like Xehanort is holding Terra and her.

When seeing those scenes again though I can't help but facepalm. I and most other people know that Mickey is a caring person and the scenes that show how guilty he feels for not being able to save TAV (both in BBS credits and DDD) prove that he cares a great deal for them, but holy Chirithy does Mickey suck at comforting distraught people.

He may intend this sentence as uplifting and showing his unwavering trust in Aqua (like he also did in CoM with Riku), but doesn't realize that in this case it might not be enough.
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua’s Reveal

I remembered this scene earlier today and it makes me think Nomura really did plan for Aqua to fall the entire time. And the way Mickey brushes off her concern, this was all leading to his development too. There's no way Aqua isn't about to rip into Mickey for 'abandoning' her or blame him for everything thanks to the darkness twisting her feelings



Wow.

I think I'm going to replay 0.2 tonight.
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua’s Reveal

When seeing those scenes again though I can't help but facepalm. I and most other people know that Mickey is a caring person and the scenes that show how guilty he feels for not being able to save TAV (both in BBS credits and DDD) prove that he cares a great deal for them, but holy Chirithy does Mickey suck at comforting distraught people.
Yet another Idiot Ball moment that benefits Team Darkness and/or screws over Team Light.

Yen Sid: "Xehanort is a devious tactician. There is nothing we can do that he will not, to some extent, be able to predict."

Me: "Well, no wonder! He seems to be the only one around with a 3-digit IQ."
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua’s Reveal

If she's not completely under Xehanort's control and has some of her own agency left (Hey, Braig too can do some things of his own as can Vanitas) she might even still be interested in protecting Ven, possibly outright attacking Sora because in her Darkness-clouded view she believes Sora is holding Ventus prisoner just like Xehanort is holding Terra and her.
Oh my gosh, I've been wondering what her reaction to Sora would be all day. Would she mistake him for Ven and stalk him? Would she realize he was Sora and blame him too? But her viewing him as a prison would be an interesting take... but would she really? She was told Sora would be the one to save them all. Maybe she would view him as 'unworthy' instead?

When seeing those scenes again though I can't help but facepalm. I and most other people know that Mickey is a caring person and the scenes that show how guilty he feels for not being able to save TAV (both in BBS credits and DDD) prove that he cares a great deal for them, but holy Chirithy does Mickey suck at comforting distraught people.

He may intend this sentence as uplifting and showing his unwavering trust in Aqua (like he also did in CoM with Riku), but doesn't realize that in this case it might not be enough.
It's so obvious with the way she pauses before she answers, "Right." Mickey doesn't understand and Aqua is trying not to dwell on her sadness either, so they both ignore the big issue. Aqua, no matter how much she insists she'll keep strong and keep fighting, is slowly succumbing to the darkness. She is SO depressed when Mickey finds her, she was already on the edge.

Looking back at Blank Points too, it makes total sense that she's crying. She's way worse off than we thought. Maybe when she asked about Terra and Ven, she had the smallest hope that Mickey would have done something about it now that the worlds were saved. Who knows.
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua’s Reveal

Yet another Idiot Ball moment that benefits Team Darkness and/or screws over Team Light.

Yen Sid: "Xehanort is a devious tactician. There is nothing we can do that he will not, to some extent, be able to predict."

Me: "Well, no wonder! He seems to be the only one around with a 3-digit IQ."
I wouldn't call that an idiot ball just yet as it may be just one of Mickey's general character flaws/ a trait of his character.

People who suck at comforting others despite caring very much do exist in the real world after all.
Furthermore, not everyone is capable of detecting the signs of mental and/or emotional trauma.

Oh my gosh, I've been wondering what her reaction to Sora would be all day. Would she mistake him for Ven and stalk him? Would she realize he was Sora and blame him too? But her viewing him as a prison would be an interesting take... but would she really? She was told Sora would be the one to save them all. Maybe she would view him as 'unworthy' instead?

It's so obvious with the way she pauses before she answers, "Right." Mickey doesn't understand and Aqua is trying not to dwell on her sadness either, so they both ignore the big issue. Aqua, no matter how much she insists she'll keep strong and keep fighting, is slowly succumbing to the darkness. She is SO depressed when Mickey finds her, she was already on the edge.

Looking back at Blank Points too, it makes total sense that she's crying. She's way worse off than we thought. Maybe when she asked about Terra and Ven, she had the smallest hope that Mickey would have done something about it now that the worlds were saved. Who knows.
It really depends on how much exactly her views have already been warped and if he's involved how much Xehanort already managed to manipulate her.
If she still believes in Sora she might even not attack him at all but possibly implore him to protect Ventus because she cannot do it anymore with Darkness and/or Xehanort clinging to her like a heavy flu, holding still out the hope that Sora and his friends can still solve the Xehanort problem once and for all.
If she does however see Sora mostly as part of Mickey's/Yen Sid's group who in her current view point took too long/abandoned her and by extension Ven and Terra, she might get the wrong idea about Sora harboring Ven's heart (in the BBS finale of her story Vanitas claimed "Ventus' heart is a part of mine now" and Aqua was royally pissed about that) and in that case I'd wager only Ventus projecting himself from Sora and clearing things up could prevent a violent outcome.

Worst case would be of course if in such a confrontation between her and Sora Xehanort takes direct control and forces Aqua to use her own Keyblade Master powers to extract Ven's heart from within Sora, capturing Ven this way and possibly weakening or incapacitating Sora.
Bonus drama points if while Ven is forcibly dragged away by a struggling Aqua Vanitas shows up to finish the job and kill Sora, with Young Xehanort standing in the background with his usual Trollanort behaviour.

It is somewhat a pity that Mickey so completely overlooks the indicators, although it might be explained by the stress he has already on his plate from the plot of KH 1 with countless worlds being destroyed.
He might also be convinced that now that he found Aqua they will stay together and eventually leave the RoD together, that they would be separated again wasn't Mickey's intent nor could he predict that.

Yea, mental and emotional wounds cannot be easily pinpointed if body language, voice and expression do not make it pretty obvious.
With Aqua it is now also again splintered over several media of the KH series, but if one puts everything that happened, from BBS itself over the Secret Episode, 0.2 and Blank Points together, it becomes feasible as to why Aqua might have become vulnerable enough to finally fall (either from her own depression or from a last final push from Xehanort who could have possibly waited for just the right moment).
She has resisted and stayed strong for very long, as even in the RoD where time is much slower than in the RoL at least several weeks of not months passed, but as her statement in the trailer insinuated, Mickey and associated allies simply took too long.
Aqua had not enough defensive reserves left to last the final stretch of time until Mickey and Riku finally find her.
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua�s Reveal

Since a vessel's own agency was brought into the discussion with comparison between the Aquanort and Braig/Vanitas, I take the occasion to picth a thing I was thinking about: perhaps there are "degrees" to the Nortification.

As of now, only a few of vessels have grey hair:
- Young, for natural reasons
- Terranort
- Ansem and Xemnas, because they come from Terranort
- if a vessel, Aquanort

Some will also say Xigbar has partial grey hair but hear me out. Basically the only full-grey without proper explanation would be Terranort and Aquanort.
I was thinking back to DDD when Old Xehanort takes control of Young, and his eyes glow when that happens, and that got me thinking that if he perchance didn't have yellow eyes already maybe that's when he would've gotten them (I was discussing Marluxia with my friends before the new trailer dropped)
That got me thinking: Terranort is the only one who isn't just a vessel with a piece of Xehanort, but carried Xehanort's entire "self", unlike Braig or Vanitas.

What if grey hair is like the second tier, and you need not only a piece of Xehanort's heart, but his entire self? And maybe this counts for possession as well. Nomura did say Xehanort can freely possess any vessel, maybe he will pull that trick in KH III and when he does the vessel will also get grey hair on top of the yellow eyes.
And regardin Xigbar's stray grey lines... maybe that's just him aging and is a red herring. After all, doesn't seem like the "greyfication" happens overtime, you either get it or not.
 

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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua�s Reveal

Oh my gosh, I've been wondering what her reaction to Sora would be all day. Would she mistake him for Ven and stalk him? Would she realize he was Sora and blame him too? But her viewing him as a prison would be an interesting take... but would she really? She was told Sora would be the one to save them all. Maybe she would view him as 'unworthy' instead?



It's so obvious with the way she pauses before she answers, "Right." Mickey doesn't understand and Aqua is trying not to dwell on her sadness either, so they both ignore the big issue. Aqua, no matter how much she insists she'll keep strong and keep fighting, is slowly succumbing to the darkness. She is SO depressed when Mickey finds her, she was already on the edge.

Looking back at Blank Points too, it makes total sense that she's crying. She's way worse off than we thought. Maybe when she asked about Terra and Ven, she had the smallest hope that Mickey would have done something about it now that the worlds were saved. Who knows.
Eh, it would be a reach to suddenly claim her tears in Blank Points are of sadness or disappointment. She clearly smiles as she exclaims Sora's name in a hopeful manner. Unless you think she was just acting? I don't see why she would since she doesn't even know Ansem though.

Like she was disappointed initially about Terra and Ven but the conversation continues before she starts crying.
 
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Re: Nomura talks Final Fantasy characters, Cooking with Remy, Aqua�s Reveal

Eh, it would be a reach to suddenly claim her tears in Blank Points are sadness or disappointment. She clearly smiles as she exclaims Sora's name in a hopeful manner. Unless you think she was just acting? I don't see why she would since she doesn't even know Ansem though.

Like she was disappointed initially about Terra and Ven but the conversation continues before she starts crying.
That's not what I was implying. It makes sense for her to become so emotional upon hearing Sora's name or the hope that she really will be 'saved'. Or that Sora will save everyone else.

At that point, Aqua's hope had probably dwindled to nothing. I mean look at her, she finds a random old man in the darkness and is eager to have a conversation with him. When Ansem tells her the boy's name isn't Terra or Ven, she just deflates and goes silent until Ansem speaks again.

If at the time she met Ansem, she believed she was too far gone or close to falling to darkness... it'd be interesting if she cried knowing she would fall and eventually be saved by Sora. "Even if the worst happens to me, at least it's not permanent. I have one last hope."

(that part about Mickey and asking about Terra and Ven was a disjointed unrelated thought that I didn't separate into its own paragraph)
 
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