• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

Nomura stating Roxas has Ventus heart?



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Draxem

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
578
Location
UK
Website
www.taystrippedbear.com
3: Is it possible that Roxas has a heart?
It is thought that it could be Ventus’s heart.



 In KHIIFM there were clues to him having a heart, and in Days we saw
 Roxas crying—proof that he could have a heart. As was said in Q1, he 
has taken a lot of himself from Ventus. But perhaps when Sora and Roxas
 were separated, Ventus’s heart stayed in Roxas?


Just saw this on here:
The Kingdom Hearts Info Block.

From a Nomura interview, I know we've been told very specifically in KH DDD that Roxas was his own person from Sora and obviously there are distinct differences between Roxas and Ventus (they're not the same person) but right here it pretty much flat out stating that he did in fact have Ventus's heart rather than his own. I know he's constructed from Ventus's heart (and Soras) and that's why he looks like Ven so I don't need lecturing on the run down between the two because I've heard it a million and one times. My actual question here is: Does Nomura have a habit of going back on what he said? Because anyone who'd played Dream Drop Distance would know they're trying to distinguish himself as his own person, but why would they if the heart Roxas had wasn't one he had grown himself, but actually Ventus's? As in, the memories Sora sees through Roxas in DDD were actually stored in Ventus's heart rather than Roxas's own one? (Which Nomura here has suggested may not actually exist because he just simply had Vens)

Bit of a head fuck I know, basically just asking if Nomura ever overruled this anywhere
 

Ruran

Flesh by mother, soul by father
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
4,653
Awards
4
Mind, that for the earlier games, Nomura was making things up as he went along, thinking one game ahead at most. It was hinted at since KH2 that Roxas had a heart, or at least, a semblance of one. If anything, the idea of Roxas having his own heart came first, then his connection with Ven was developed later when they needed a reason for Ven to have a connection to previously established characters.

To answer your question about whether or not Nomura goes back on what he's said before? Ehhhhh...kind of yes, but mostly no. As I mentioned before, Nomura went into this series making things up as he went along. For better or for worse, he left concepts vague so that he can fill them in later. He's a "questions first, answers later" kind of guy in that I don't think even he has the full answers when he comes up with stuff at times. Since Nomura leaves a lot of stuff vague he doesn't really go back on his word because a lot of said stuff wasn't given a straight answer to begin with.

Like in the case of Roxas's heart. It wasn't formally established for the longest time that Roxas had a heart period, it was just hinted at. Since it wasn't actually confirmed, Nomura could alter the details to his desire later because nothing was set in stone. Thus, the official confirmation that Roxas had Ven's heart, but only after further establishing that Roxas was his own person regardless.

Roxas is all but confirmed to have his own heart now though. He was just "borrowing" Ven's heart, but it didn't have a whole lot of impact on him outside of altering his appearance, possibly allowing him to feel, and a second Keyblade.
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
Awards
5
Ruran said:
Since Nomura leaves a lot of stuff vague he doesn't really go back on his word because a lot of said stuff wasn't given a straight answer to begin with.

Exactly this. Many fans cry retcon every left and right but in truth Nomura rarely ever confirms something bluntly leaving it up to interpretation.
This is one of those cases. Roxas was always showed to be more emotional than nobodies should since KH2 as Ruran pointed out but we never got any sort of clear answers till like DDD we Riku sees them separately when diving into Sora's heart or when Xigbar confirms Sora's statement that "you have to have a heart to cry!".

So in truth any time someone points out there's a retcon or that Nomura has went back on what he said earlier it's usually just that particular person's interpretation being shattered.

A lot of Roxas seems to be overshadowed by Ventus as well. Even though Ventus gave a second keyblade and Roxas' looks it was actually Sora that was shown to have affected Roxas most over his life.
The ability to wield, the dreams, Xion, and most importantly his ability to grow his own persona thanks to him lacking Sora's memories.

Ventus was present but in truth he hardly ever had much of an influence on Roxas at all.
 

Wander

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Messages
267
Roxas did have Ventus' heart, in KH1 Sora released his and Kairi's heart from his body, but Ventus' heart stayed within it when it became Roxas (because obviously Sora didn't know that he had Ventus' heart with him). Ventus' heart was dormant however, and had little effect on Roxas aside from his appearance, it only woke up after Xion's death, and its influence was only in allowing Roxas to summon Ventus' Keyblade. In the time of Days Roxas developed his own heart which shaped his personality.

So no, I don't think Nomura went back on his word or anything, I think you're just misinterpreting it. Roxas always did have Ventus' heart, but it was asleep and influenced little, he eventually grew his own heart and had two hearts with him at one point before returning to Sora. Ventus' heart didn't return to Sora until Roxas joined with him again.
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,523
Awards
37
Location
Germany
Roxas did have Ventus' heart, in KH1 Sora released his and Kairi's heart from his body, but Ventus' heart stayed within it when it became Roxas (because obviously Sora didn't know that he had Ventus' heart with him). Ventus' heart was dormant however, and had little effect on Roxas aside from his appearance, it only woke up after Xion's death, and its influence was only in allowing Roxas to summon Ventus' Keyblade. In the time of Days Roxas developed his own heart which shaped his personality.

So no, I don't think Nomura went back on his word or anything, I think you're just misinterpreting it. Roxas always did have Ventus' heart, but it was asleep and influenced little, he eventually grew his own heart and had two hearts with him at one point before returning to Sora. Ventus' heart didn't return to Sora until Roxas joined with him again.

Correct except for the waking up part, Ven's heart didn't wake up when Xion died, Roxas just somehow unlocked Ven's Keyblade. If Ven's heart would have been awake, Roxas would have experienced memory flashes and illusions of Ventus just like Sora experienced the same things of Kairi during KH 1 when her heart was located within him and awake.

Exactly, just because Roxas carried Ven's heart it doesn't mean that he in any shape of form IS Ventus. Ventus' existence is sleeping and beyond forming the appearance, initial capacity for true emotions and eventually the second Keyblade to wield he has nothing to do with Roxas.
 

Wander

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Messages
267
Correct except for the waking up part, Ven's heart didn't wake up when Xion died, Roxas just somehow unlocked Ven's Keyblade. If Ven's heart would have been awake, Roxas would have experienced memory flashes and illusions of Ventus just like Sora experienced the same things of Kairi during KH 1 when her heart was located within him and awake.

Oops yeah, I suppose it was his Keyblade that woke up rather than his heart.
 

Zebedy

New member
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
71
Awards
1
Location
surrounded by morons
3: Is it possible that Roxas has a heart?
It is thought that it could be Ventus’s heart.



 In KHIIFM there were clues to him having a heart, and in Days we saw
 Roxas crying—proof that he could have a heart. As was said in Q1, he 
has taken a lot of himself from Ventus. But perhaps when Sora and Roxas
 were separated, Ventus’s heart stayed in Roxas?


Just saw this on here:
The Kingdom Hearts Info Block.

From a Nomura interview, I know we've been told very specifically in KH DDD that Roxas was his own person from Sora and obviously there are distinct differences between Roxas and Ventus (they're not the same person) but right here it pretty much flat out stating that he did in fact have Ventus's heart rather than his own. I know he's constructed from Ventus's heart (and Soras) and that's why he looks like Ven so I don't need lecturing on the run down between the two because I've heard it a million and one times. My actual question here is: Does Nomura have a habit of going back on what he said? Because anyone who'd played Dream Drop Distance would know they're trying to distinguish himself as his own person, but why would they if the heart Roxas had wasn't one he had grown himself, but actually Ventus's? As in, the memories Sora sees through Roxas in DDD were actually stored in Ventus's heart rather than Roxas's own one? (Which Nomura here has suggested may not actually exist because he just simply had Vens)

Bit of a head diddly I know, basically just asking if Nomura ever overruled this anywhere
Nothing was contradicted. Roxas had Ventus's heart, but he was also slowly nurturing one of his own. It's additional information.
 

Draxem

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
578
Location
UK
Website
www.taystrippedbear.com
I think you're giving Nomura too much credit saying fans retcon everywhere, he does retcon everywhere regardless of how cleverly he does it. Don't get me wrong I love this series and I know in this instance it may not have ever been directly stated but pre DDD (perhaps Recoded) I don't think he had any intention whatsoever of bringing Roxas back.
 

Antifa Lockhart

Moderator
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
3,694
Awards
82
I think you're giving Nomura too much credit saying fans retcon everywhere, he does retcon everywhere regardless of how cleverly he does it. Don't get me wrong I love this series and I know in this instance it may not have ever been directly stated but pre DDD (perhaps Recoded) I don't think he had any intention whatsoever of bringing Roxas back.

Mm, nope. Birth by Sleep showed that the backhalf of the Kingdom Hearts arc was going to be a story about redemption and saving pretty much everyone that Xehanort screwed over, that's why Roxas and Xion say Sora's name in Blank Points. Roxas's return has been hinted at since Final Mix when Roxas and Axel begin to speculate that Roxas has a heart. Roxas makes peace with his demise knowing that Sora will eventually find the answer.
 

Solo

Silver Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
4,606
Awards
14
Age
32
Location
Indonesia
I think you're giving Nomura too much credit saying fans retcon everywhere, he does retcon everywhere regardless of how cleverly he does it. Don't get me wrong I love this series and I know in this instance it may not have ever been directly stated but pre DDD (perhaps Recoded) I don't think he had any intention whatsoever of bringing Roxas back.

Do keep in mind though that strictly speaking, something can only be said as retcon if it had been stated otherwise some time in the past.

For example, consider these following scenarios:
  • I said the hamster was male. Later, I said the hamster was female. This represents retcon because I had established a fact which I would contradict.
  • I said the hamster could be male. Later, I said the hamster was female. This doesn't represent retcon because no fact had been established, thus no contradiction.
There's a difference in truth values of the first premises of each of the above sentence that affects the conclusion of the statement.

I respectfully disagree with you that Nomura does retcon everywhere, whether it literally means everywhere or just a lot of times, because as had been stated earlier he left many things open to interpretation, thus giving him some leeway for curve balls. True, the way he moulds the story isn't exactly the best what with the sheer amount of things kept away from the light of day, but retcon in Kingdom Hearts isn't as abundant as some might think it was, if even any.

As for Nomura not intending for Roxas to come back, I believe Tinny has answered it clearly.
 
Last edited:

Draxem

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
578
Location
UK
Website
www.taystrippedbear.com
Fair one Tinny, I forgot about Blank Points and the scene in KH2FM, I was wrong :) Did Xehanort really screw Roxas over though?

Do keep in mind though that strictly speaking, something can only be said as retcon if it had been stated otherwise some time in the past.

For example, consider these following scenarios:
  • I said the hamster was male. Later, I said the hamster was female. This represents retcon because I had established a fact which I would contradict.
  • I said the hamster could be male. Later, I said the hamster was female. This doesn't represent retcon because no fact had been established, thus no contradiction.
There's a difference in truth values of the first premises of each of the above sentence that affects the conclusion of the statement.

I respectfully disagree with you that Nomura does retcon everywhere, whether it literally means everywhere or just a lot of times, because as had been stated earlier he left many things open to interpretation, thus giving him some leeway for curve balls. True, the way he moulds the story isn't exactly the best what with the sheer amount of things kept away from the light of day, but retcon in Kingdom Hearts isn't as abundant as some might think it was, if even any.

As for Nomura not intending for Roxas to come back, I believe Tinny has answered it clearly.

I didn't mean literally everywhere haha, sorry about that, I respect the series and everything I think I've just started getting severely pissy with how Nomura choses to present it. The amount of things we aren't told on screen irritates me, especially with BBS.

Thanks guys, I can admit I was wrong, probably talking rashly.
 

Antifa Lockhart

Moderator
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
3,694
Awards
82
Fair one Tinny, I forgot about Blank Points and the scene in KH2FM, I was wrong :) Did Xehanort really screw Roxas over though?

Yeah, I mean aside from lying to him about who he was he is responsible for the birth of Xion and the tug of war with Sora's memories. If Xemnas had been upfront about what he'd known about the heart's true nature and Roxas's identity things would have ended differently.
 

Draxem

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
578
Location
UK
Website
www.taystrippedbear.com
Yeah, I mean aside from lying to him about who he was he is responsible for the birth of Xion and the tug of war with Sora's memories. If Xemnas had been upfront about what he'd known about the heart's true nature and Roxas's identity things would have ended differently.

Obviously all of that is true but in my eyes I see DiZ as mostly responsible for Roxas's suffering.
 

Oracle Spockanort

𝕧𝕖𝕟𝕘𝕖𝕒𝕟𝕔𝕖 𝕚𝕟𝕥𝕠 𝕙𝕠𝕡𝕖
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
35,180
Awards
96
Age
31
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
Obviously all of that is true but in my eyes I see DiZ as mostly responsible for Roxas's suffering.

How? 7 days out of 365 spent in a digital world where DiZ was an ass to a kid is nothing compared to the machinations caused by Xemnas & Xehanort.
 

Draxem

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
578
Location
UK
Website
www.taystrippedbear.com
Roxas coulda probably pretty happily co-existed with Sora if it wasn't for DiZ, he treat him like absolute shit just for being a nobody, even taunted him in his last moments before becoming one with him.
 

Ruran

Flesh by mother, soul by father
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
4,653
Awards
4
How? 7 days out of 365 spent in a digital world where DiZ was an ass to a kid is nothing compared to the machinations caused by Xemnas & Xehanort.

^ That, and aside from the occasional douchebaggery, Diz treated Roxas surprisingly..."well". Roxas was at his complete mercy and Diz could have done anything to him, but opted to let him live out the rest of his days out in ignorant bliss. The only reason Roxas became aware of how deep in shit he was in was because of the Org. and Naminé meddling.
 
Last edited:

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,523
Awards
37
Location
Germany
Roxas coulda probably pretty happily co-existed with Sora if it wasn't for DiZ, he treat him like absolute shit just for being a nobody, even taunted him in his last moments before becoming one with him.

You do not get the crucial point.
DiZ being an asshole towards Roxas has nothing to do with his fate.

The only possibility for Roxas to co-exist with Sora would have been if the whole memory mess didn't happen (and I am discounting any possible problems this might have cause for Ventus here).
When Naminé messed with Sora's memories many of them (especially those regarding Kairi) became unhinged from their place in Sora's heart.
Due to the close connection with Roxas some of those memories went into him. That's also the reason as to why Vexen could create a Twilight Town card in Chain of Memories despite Sora never visiting the town himself before, he used the connection between Sora and Roxas to craft the card out of some from Roxas' memories.

Messing with Sora's memory however was a plan hatched by Xemnas (and thus by proxy Xehanort) from the beginning in order to make use of Sora's powers, Marluxia just hijacked that plan in order to try and make Sora his puppet.
Xion was created with a memory-siphoning ability that would "catch" all free memories from Sora through Roxas since his connection with Sora provided an opening for the loose memories to flow out.

With so many memories missing Naminé couldn't finish restoring Sora as memories are a crucial part of any heart.
The loose memories where all scattered between Sora, Roxas and Xion and untangling them and reordering them would have taken many years, time Riku, Naminé and DiZ simply didn't have since Xemnas' plans and the Organisation's plans were proceeding at a steady pace.

Naminé even explains the real reason Roxas (and Xion) have to disappear during a conversation with Riku in Days:
Days said:
Riku: You made me a promise.

Naminé: To look after Sora. I remember. I'm sorry... I'm not sure I've kept that promise very well.

Riku: What happened?

Naminé: Some of Sora's memories are missing.
Riku: How can that be?

Naminé: They're escaping through Sora's Nobody into a third person-- and now they're starting to become a part of her.
Riku: You can't get the memories back out.

Naminé: If they're still separate...then yes, I think so.
(She looks at the sketchbook on the table of the picture of Axel, Roxas, and Xion)

Naminé: But if they join with her memories, things get a lot more complicated. I would need to untangle her memory before I could finish Sora's... What was supposed to take months might take years. DiZ would be furious.

Riku: So what's the solution?

Naminé: If I try to just jump in and rearrange her memory...then I risk Sora waking up to find out that nobody remembers him anymore. I can't do that to him. It's too late either way. His awakening will have to be delayed. I never imagined Sora's Nobody and the other one would fight so hard to be their own people. Unfortunately, the only real solution...is for them both to go away.

Naminé: Did you know her face was blank at first? Only now can you see someone. That proves some of Sora's memories are inside her. Some inside her, some inside Sora...others inside Sora's Nobody... I can't sort it out anymore. All I can do is pick up the pieces once what has to be done, is done.

Riku: All right, then.

The things that both Naminé and DiZ speak about during KH 2 that Roxas needs to "give back" to Sora are these untangled memories that lie inside Roxas
DiZ being such a jerkass about it all was just his revenge-obsessed mind blowing off some steam.
 

Oracle Spockanort

𝕧𝕖𝕟𝕘𝕖𝕒𝕟𝕔𝕖 𝕚𝕟𝕥𝕠 𝕙𝕠𝕡𝕖
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
35,180
Awards
96
Age
31
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
Roxas coulda probably pretty happily co-existed with Sora if it wasn't for DiZ, he treat him like absolute shit just for being a nobody, even taunted him in his last moments before becoming one with him.

No, he couldn't have. Roxas was full of Sora's memories via Xion. Sora would have never woken up if the two hadn't merged back together. They certainly could have co-existed if Namine hasn't meddled with Sora's memories and Xemnas hadn't made Xion, but that stuff did happen so Sora became incomplete and irreparable without Roxas.

Perhaps if Xion had went to Namine early on, things could have been different for her and Roxas but Xemnas left them in the dark for the very reason that he needed to exploit their abilities.

DiZ may have been an asshole to Roxas, but he was the asshole who helped to fix Sora. Being an asshole to Roxas did nothing but make Roxas angry. He didn't ruin Roxas' life. He didn't make Roxas fight his best friend and watch her die. He wasn't the one who lied to Roxas about his existence and who he was all for the end-goal of supreme power.

What he did was try to give a small bit of mercy to a being he hated and make the process of returning Roxas to Sora as painless as possible. If it hadn't been for Axel and those Dusk Nobodies going in, Roxas would have been none-the-wiser to what was going on. It is pretty shitty, but DiZ didn't even have to do that much but he did.

Edit: Ninja'd. Sephiroth said it best.
 

kmorris2609

New member
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
130
Considering how strong Sora's heart is, I wouldn't be surprised if his Nobody possessed the ability to create his own heart. Besides, Ventus and Roxas have entirely different personalities.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top