Nobodies With Hearts

[Nutari]

theyre pretending to have emotions.

 

[Lifes.Lover]

So then... how did Ven influence why they dual-wield, if he himself cannot dual-weild and there isn't any confirmation that he is a part of Sora beyond Roxas' looks.

 

[Insomniac]

I think whatever makes him connected to Roxas is what allows Sora and Roxas to Dual- Wield. Xehanort had his Heart within Riku which allowed him to Dual- Wield so Ven might have a part of him allowing sora to Dual- Wield.

 

[Smile]

So then... how did Ven influence why they dual-wield, if he himself cannot dual-weild and there isn't any confirmation that he is a part of Sora beyond Roxas' looks.

Again, Duel Wielding isn't a single person's ability.
Think about it kind of like how Sora had Memories not his own when Kairi's Heart was in his Body. The same would be here, only with Wielding another Keyblade - an ability not belonging to Sora and Riku themselves, but one they can use for whatever ties to someone else capable of Wielding another Keyblade for them.

 

[Lifes.Lover]

Well, I suppose that makes more sense than because Roxas has his own heart.

 

[Insomniac]

Roxas having his own Heart wouldn't make much sense. If Roxas had his own Heart then he wouldn't of had returned to Sora. He would be a complete being. If the Heart was Ven's then he would be Ven.

 

[Lifes.Lover]

Which is exactly why I was debating with Key of Valor, because I don't like that theory.

 

[Muse]

Roxas having his own Heart wouldn't make much sense. If Roxas had his own Heart then he wouldn't of had returned to Sora. He would be a complete being. If the Heart was Ven's then he would be Ven.

If the heart were Ven's, wouldn't he have memories of Ven as well?

 

[Lifes.Lover]

Hell, at least then he'd have memories.

 

[Smile]

Which is actually a reason why I don't think we can contradict Sora having Ven's Heart in him.
Riku was struggling with XH.
Sora got to see Kairi's Memories.
However, for Ven, neither of those happened. That is to say, while we can say that's evidence of absence, one can also argue that's absence of evidence *feels dirty since KoV likes the same sentence she does*. That is - maybe Ven's Heart was dormant and that's why it never affected Sora. Who knows.

 

[Lifes.Lover]

Except that I believe, even dormant, a heart will have an effect if it's in you.

There's nothing saying that Kairi's heart wasn't dormant while inside of Sora, and it still affected him.

In fact, if it's not dormant, I think it could be even worse for the person it resides in, than if it is dormant, and just messing around a little bit.

 

[Insomniac]

If the heart were Ven's, wouldn't he have memories of Ven as well?

Exactly. Which is why it wouldn't make sense. Though it is possible that Ven's memories were altered in some way. He did seem to be forgetting in Olympus Coliseum. He couldn't have lost all of his memories though because without memories the Heart colapses. So Still Roxas would have to have someones memories but, he doesn't. So therefore he has no Heart.

 

[Smile]

Actually, I think we got to see pretty damn well that Kairi's Heart wasn't dormant. It wasn't just her Memories leaking out to become visible to Sora, it was her calling out to him. Appearing before him and talking to him.
The main difference between this, and Riku and XH is that Kairi's Heart obviously was no match for Sora's, hence why no struggle took place beyond the arguable behavior undertones which went away once her Heart left his Body allowing him to finally stop caring about her.
With Riku and XH it was different though as befitting a struggle with two of the strongest Hearts we know.

 

[Insomniac]

Riku didn't fight Xehanort's Heart until the end though and Xehanort still completely took over Riku. I think Kairi was somewhat dormant. Riku had knowledge of Xehanort being within him so he controlled the changes that he went through until Xehanort completely took over but, Sora didn't know Kairi's Heart was within him so the chances of his Heart fighting something that it didn't even know was there don't seem too likely in my opinion. Riku's Heart fought back because it knew Xehanort's Heart was there but, Sora's didn't because it didn't know Kairi's Heart was there.

 

[Rehnxtu]

But, what if the physical prescence of the heart and the emotional prescence of the heart are completely different?
How does one know that nobodies do not have emotions? Unless one has been a nobody.
Nobodies could possibly have no heart but still have emotions.
I may be wrong, but it seems at least certain nobodies do in fact have emotions. Even though people say they are faking.
When some of the members of Organzation XIII fade away they seem sad or frightened. Still, they could be faking but they could also keep a straight face or try to cause more trouble for sora.
They really won't gain anything from ACTING sad or frightened because they are already fading away and if they by chance gain sympathy from the hero, still it is too late to for them to be helped.
( Also, at Memory's Skyscraper in Kingdom Hearts II, when sora and roxas fight at the Station of Awakening, couldn't that be seen as a battle between Sora's heart and Roxas's heart? )
Again, all of this could be wrong but this is what I think.

 

[WilliamTheWise]

But, what if the physical prescence of the heart and the emotional prescence of the heart are completely different?
How does one know that nobodies do not have emotions? Unless one has been a nobody.
Nobodies could possibly have no heart but still have emotions.

No the two are connected in the KH universe. Nobodies don't have emotions.

I may be wrong, but it seems at least certain nobodies do in fact have emotions. Even though people say they are faking.

Because they admit they're faking. If they had real emotions why would they want to be whole again?

( Also, at Memory's Skyscraper in Kingdom Hearts II, when sora and roxas fight at the Station of Awakening, couldn't that be seen as a battle between Sora's heart and Roxas's heart? )

Since Roxas doesn't have a heart I say no.
I think that battle was Roxas testing out Sora and seeing how strong he was.

 

[Muse]

I saw that battle as an inner battle between the two consciousnesses within Sora, himself and Roxas, to determine who would be better in charge, but meh.

 

[Insomniac]

It wasn't an inner battle. It was Roxas actually battling Sora because he even summoned his Samurai Nobodies to keep Donald and Goofy from interfering with their battle. also Roxas doesn't have a Heart for Sora to have had battled.

 

[Muse]

Er... I kinda remember Donald and Goofy being all confused when Sora mentions an Organization member while they're in the city.

 

[Insomniac]

When they battled they were in a seperate dimension. So they battle might have taken place in seconds without them seeing an Orginization member. Either that or they were to preoccupied with the Samurais to notice.