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new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x better



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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

riku has never been off the island, so he didnt really know much about the ways of hearts. i think he just found something interesting and wanted more, without knowing it was bad.

You're not getting it. It doesn't matter if he didn't realize what he was doing was bad at the time that he did it. The fact that he continued to do evil without acknowledging those he hurt (like, you know, the entire population of Destiny Islands) proves that he was IMMORAL.

nah uh! he cared at the end of kh1, he closed the door with king mickey, and he cared during the final fight with ansem, as he was trying to escape :p
The only time he ever acknowledges any sort of regret for destroying DI is, as I said, in CoM onward.
He may have felt guilty at the time you pointed out, but it's a moot point considering that it doesn't make what I've been saying any less true.

Like, seriously, why are we having a debate on whether Riku was BAD for the majority of the first game? The answer is pretty damn obvious.
 

Aqua.

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

lmao, how can kairi be "cute and live-spirited" while she was kidnapped in kh1? wtf? she was freaking unconscience.. how does she act cute then ? unless you mean she LOOKS cute ? yeah she looks cute in both games, really. but she doesn't act cute during kh1 while being kidnapped lmao she's freaking passed out or w/e.. lmao..

You're not getting it. It doesn't matter if he didn't realize what he was doing was bad at the time that he did it. The fact that he continued to do evil without acknowledging those he hurt (like, you know, the entire population of Destiny Islands) proves that he was IMMORAL.


The only time he ever acknowledges any sort of regret for destroying DI is, as I said, in CoM onward.
He may have felt guilty at the time you pointed out, but it's a moot point considering that it doesn't make what I've been saying any less true.

Like, seriously, why are we having a debate on whether Riku was BAD for the majority of the first game? The answer is pretty damn obvious.
yeah he was an asshole i hated him a lot

but then once sora fought him in his dark riku form, and stuff, once he realized that ansem was trying to take over his body, i guess he realized that all he's done was bad.. or at least that he's doing something bad. then he tries to escape and that's when he warns kairi and the others to leave..

but until com is when he truly realizes what he's done to everyone [the islanders, the worlds, his friends] and when he starts to truly be remorseful..

but near the end of kh1 he knew that he was doing the bad thing, but he had to focus on mentally fighting ansem since he didn't have time to think of all the bad stuff he's done, he only had time to think of a way to escape ansems' grasp on his body. he didn't have a mind of his own that WASNT influenced by the darkness of those as maleficent and ansem.

it wasn't till com that he was able to actually have time to think about the bad he's done. plus the fact that zexion/ansem/org13 kept shoving it down his throat in com every time he saw them to make him feel bad and stuff..
 

kingdomkey96

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

i never really thought of it tht way but it definitely makes sense.and as for the whole riku being an asshole or not an ashhole ill just say tht hes a biy=t of both.
 

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

Well, I think during most of KH1 he was blinded more by jealousy toward Sora for his Keyblade and his new friends. He did want to intentionally hurt Sora at first, because he felt like Sora had replaced him with D&G and that he didn't care about Kairi anymore, because he was out busy fighting Heartless and sealing Keyholes. Maleficent didn't help either, she practically started it.

As for him destroying DI, he found the only way out of the Islands, and took the chance. I'm not saying it was right, not at all. I'm saying he went way overboard with trying to leave the Islands.
 

Aqua.

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

he didn't know that he would end up destroying destiny islands like that, it's all probably xehanorts fault. seeing that he[riku] wanted to leave so badly, he used that against him and made riku turn to darkness by offering a way out of the islands by making the whole darkness thing.. since riku chose to use it/accept it, that's what triggered everything.

in the end it was all xehanorts fault, but of course riku will think it was his.

also, maleficent drives him a lot closer to the darkness by showing riku and telling him that sora had abondoned him for these new friends.. so she used riku's emotions against him and making him turn those emotions into negative/bad emotions causing him to sink deeper into darkness,

and don't forget that xehanort like took over his body and and almost his heart and stuff,
 
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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

its not his fault, its Ansem and Maleficent, any curious teen would wanna know whats outside those islands
 

Lunarmaster54

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

It was not his fault the islands were destroyed, yeah he was an ass for most of the 1st game but its because of the darkness. darkness he would not have bothered with if Kairi was not in danger. and I miss the old kairi too (despite my opinion of Namine being a much better character/love interest for sora)
 

loke13

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

It was not his fault the islands were destroyed, yeah he was an ass for most of the 1st game but its because of the darkness. darkness he would not have bothered with if Kairi was not in danger. and I miss the old kairi too (despite my opinion of Namine being a much better character/love interest for sora)
I don't know he seemed all to happy to plunge into the darkness if it meant getting to other worlds.
 

HeartSeams

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

The darkness was something that grew because of his obsession with freedom. Eventually, I think he learned to associate the darkness with that freedom instead of realizing his obsession was causing it. Either way, in KH1 Riku learned to think of "darkness = freedom". Freedom from the islands. Freedom from being jealous of Sora. Freedom of the torment Kairi was in.

Problem was it was only imprisoning him more.
 

loke13

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

The darkness was something that grew because of his obsession with freedom. Eventually, I think he learned to associate the darkness with that freedom instead of realizing his obsession was causing it. Either way, in KH1 Riku learned to think of "darkness = freedom". Freedom from the islands. Freedom from being jealous of Sora. Freedom of the torment Kairi was in.

Problem was it was only imprisoning him more.
Marry me <3
 

*TwilightNight*

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

Even though this was necro-bumped...

I kind of always thought of it like thar, actually.
As a Princess of Heart, she has a natural aversion of darkness, so she subconsciously grew wary of Riku. She isn't acting that way to intentionally give Riku the cold shoulder. And if anything, he deserved it at the time.

Always thought of it like that too. It was quite apparent to me that she was sensing his Darkness. I don't think she knew how to properly express it, however, and it accumulated into the conversation with Sora. I would believe Light and Dark, being opposite elements, won't coincide well with each other when clashing. And that's what I think was happening. She didn't know she was a Princess of Heart yet to connect the dots as to why she's suddenly having negative feelings about him. She said things without thinking, and really, that's human to me, and I don't hold it on a pedestal. She didn't mean it.

Kairi herself, actually, appears to be unaffected by things throughout the series and shrugs it off with a smile, laugh, or joke. I always thought it abnormal now that I look back. Can you giggle that much on every topic? Especially in KH1. If Coded is correct about her having a "torment", then it makes you wonder what she has been suppressing all this time. And if she has been, she's damn well good at it. It might be that Kairi's problem isn't that she doesn't have any depth, but that she doesn't show it openly like other wangsters of the game in her own way. Ala Sora. He gets blamed for being bland too.

Only other installments would tell.

Whatever the case, I definitely don't think it was because she was being a bitch >.>.
 

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

Even though this was necro-bumped...

Eh, I've seen worse.

It was quite apparent to me that she was sensing his Darkness.

I have to wonder since while Darkness is something you can sense, no one else in the series seemed to be quite so repelled by it unless they associated it with evil like Eraqus and Aqua. Certainly none of the other Princesses who seemed more than concerned for Riku's well-being in KH2 once Sora came along and told them he was missing, it was only Kairi who displayed the debatable response of "we'll see him again some day".

I would believe Light and Dark, being opposite elements, won't coincide well with each other when clashing.

Then Riku's bound to get even more messed up than he already is, walking the middle road :\ And no one seems to care much for Sora who admitted the Darkness got to him but is still considered the hero of Light.

Kairi herself, actually, appears to be unaffected by things throughout the series and shrugs it off with a smile, laugh, or joke. I always thought it abnormal now that I look back. Can you giggle that much on every topic? Especially in KH1. If Coded is correct about her having a "torment", then it makes you wonder what she has been suppressing all this time. And if she has been, she's damn well good at it.

This reminds me of my old theory about why Kairi's a PoH. If Cinderella believes in Dreams, Kairi might believe in the Happy Ending and accepting anything left or right from that is something she's not quite capable of, at least without her Light dimming. "Riku can take care of himself", "we'll see him some day", even her "I won't let him go" about Sora, and hell - the stupid raft journey to begin with. And we did see occurrances of her Light possibly dimming too, mostly in KH2. Her comment about "Riku lost his-" if you believe she cares; When she remembered Sora and waiting wasn't good enough because her happy ending wasn't happening on its own; and then when she discovered that her being held captive was hurting Sora and pushing that happy ending away - something she needed Saix to tell her before it clicked in her mind that maybe being held captive was NOT a good thing!
Though I'd certainly hope that if this is it, that it'll reflect more on the other PoHs as well.

though to be fair at this point I wouldn't be surprised if her "torment" is Namine. But as I still stay away from most Re:Coded info... I'll be wiser in two weeks.
Hell it might even be related to Aqua's spell

It might be that Kairi's problem isn't that she doesn't have any depth, but that she doesn't show it openly like other wangsters of the game in her own way.

No, even if this ends up being some source of development for Kairi, she still lacks depth until she gets some character insight and development retconned into the mess. Riku had Reverse-Rebirth; Sora even in KH1 got a lot of insight into how he works with moving from being a peppy, perky kid to someone who lost his world to someone who accepted the Keyblade and then towards the end, a broken kid who basically lost all hope and even shared those insecurities with Donald and Goofy, like Riku did with Mickey in R-R.
Kairi at present day is still an over-giggly, carefree girl and it's pretty damn sad we had to wait all this while for a possible explanation as to why she behaves like this.

Ala Sora. He gets blamed for being bland too.

Sora gets blamed mostly for being a good, cheerful kid and not an angst bomb like Riku :\ Good kids don't get no credit nowadays.

Whatever the case, I definitely don't think it was because she was being a bitch >.>.

I can settle for utterly tactless but that leaves her more stupid in my book. And the argument of "she's a regular, normal kid" is kind of hard to swallow when Sora and Riku don't seem to display such "normalities" overall, which reflects back on Kairi's overall detachment from reality and her main role as a faceless plot device.
 

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

We're talking about Kingdom Hearts not Twilight. It's meant for kids of at least ten years of age, so in that sense, no sad fate or romance or any other BS can happen in this game's universe.
 

HeartSeams

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

so in that sense, no sad fate or romance or any other BS can happen in this game's universe.
...Have you not been paying attention to like half of the games? BBS, KH1, Days, CoM all had sad endings and if not that, then at least bittersweet.
And SoKai is a romance running undercurrent through the series as well.

Also, KH isn't geared to that age group anyway.
 

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

...Have you not been paying attention to like half of the games? BBS, KH1, Days, CoM all had sad endings and if not that, then at least bittersweet.

I think about the least tragic character in the series is Kairi and even that stems mostly from her seeming detachment from reality coupled with her relative lack in screen time. Everyone else aside from Sora and Riku eventually go away or get torn apart and Sora and Riku are actually conscious (well, for the most part, anyway, for Sora) to suffer the ricochets.

And SoKai is a romance running undercurrent through the series as well.

If you truly want to go there then SoNami is also romantic in nature and seems to be not a one-time thing as the FM+ referenced this, as well as Coded and Re:Coded. And with the FM+ talking about Sora's need to thank Namine while remembering Kairi fully well at the time, it's hard for me to say that SoNami as a whole is SoKai based, especially when Namine herself said that any SoKai post-CoM will be SoNami based. Tee hee.

That aside, I agree with megatron532 in the sense that the romance is debatable. "Important person" doesn't mean "beloved" quite yet and the only time in which the actual word "Love" was used was for Aqua and Ven; I doubt too many of us will be too eager to jump and declare those two a canon couple, leaving Friendship as the one true established theme in the series.
And that's not a bad thing; Pokemon having Misty have a crush on Ash didn't make it the least bit maturer, even in its Japanese version.
 

HeartSeams

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

If you truly want to go there then SoNami is also romantic in nature and seems to be not a one-time thing as the FM+ referenced this, as well as Coded and Re:Coded. And with the FM+ talking about Sora's need to thank Namine while remembering Kairi fully well at the time, it's hard for me to say that SoNami as a whole is SoKai based, especially when Namine herself said that any SoKai post-CoM will be SoNami based. Tee hee.
I don't see Sora/Nami as a romantic pairing, personally. Especially not post-CoM.
But that's the joy of these games, people get to have their own interpretations.
 

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

As Master Xehanort said to Terra:

"Aqua's and Ventus's light only make your darkness more appealing."

Or something along those lines. What I'm trying to say is that Sora's and Kairi's light possibly made Riku's darkness more noticeable, to Kairi, at least.
 

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

As Master Xehanort said to Terra:

"Aqua's and Ventus's light only make your darkness more appealing."

Or something along those lines. What I'm trying to say is that Sora's and Kairi's light possibly made Riku's darkness more noticeable, to Kairi, at least.

That's actually not a half bad comparison, seeing how Aqua was pure enough to be x-Blade component replacement and Ven was a PoH.
So we have Kairi who's a PoH and Sora who has Ven inside him.
Though the attitude is the problematic part here, less so Kairi noticing Riku's changed.

Which, seeing how even Selphie noticed that, doesn't indicate it being so much a PoH issue rather than a Kairi issue. And that could've ended with "Riku's changed", it hardly had to go beyond it to the raft comment.
 

*TwilightNight*

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Re: new light on "let's take the raft and go! just the two of us!"trust me it makes her look 200x be

I have to wonder since while Darkness is something you can sense, no one else in the series seemed to be quite so repelled by it unless they associated it with evil like Eraqus and Aqua. Certainly none of the other Princesses who seemed more than concerned for Riku's well-being in KH2 once Sora came along and told them he was missing, it was only Kairi who displayed the debatable response of "we'll see him again some day".

Nobody else has really been pure of Heart in the same vein as Kairi. Ventus was very knowledgeable due to his surroundings, and the rest of the princesses seemed pretty aware of what they could do. Kairi's more or less the only one who started from scratch and had no idea what role she possessed. All she knew was that Riku was acting weird and he felt different. Which was not a good thing, and she didn't know what to make of it really.

On top of that, I take her words as a way to comfort Sora and make him feel better (ala what Axel did to Roxas in Days word for word), including perhaps herself. You don't, obviously, that's been clear enough for me to know. Thus, we part here.

Then Riku's bound to get even more messed up than he already is, walking the middle road :\ And no one seems to care much for Sora who admitted the Darkness got to him but is still considered the hero of Light.

Yeah, but there are still the factors of the Darkness overcoming the Light and vice-versa. They can be balanced, but that more or less depends on the individual in question. Someone's who's utterly pure and feels something tainted isn't going to be okay with it, either by natural reaction due to it being the opposite or otherwise.

This reminds me of my old theory about why Kairi's a PoH. If Cinderella believes in Dreams, Kairi might believe in the Happy Ending and accepting anything left or right from that is something she's not quite capable of, at least without her Light dimming. "Riku can take care of himself", "we'll see him some day", even her "I won't let him go" about Sora, and hell - the stupid raft journey to begin with. And we did see occurrances of her Light possibly dimming too, mostly in KH2. Her comment about "Riku lost his-" if you believe she cares; When she remembered Sora and waiting wasn't good enough because her happy ending wasn't happening on its own; and then when she discovered that her being held captive was hurting Sora and pushing that happy ending away - something she needed Saix to tell her before it clicked in her mind that maybe being held captive was NOT a good thing!
Though I'd certainly hope that if this is it, that it'll reflect more on the other PoHs as well.

though to be fair at this point I wouldn't be surprised if her "torment" is Namine. But as I still stay away from most Re:Coded info... I'll be wiser in two weeks.
Hell it might even be related to Aqua's spell

Can't say much on theories. Don't know if I can put some belief on that either. But what I can say for sure is that I see no reason why her "torment" would be Naminé. At all. That wasn't the case, but you'll witness it yourself soon enough.

No, even if this ends up being some source of development for Kairi, she still lacks depth until she gets some character insight and development retconned into the mess. Riku had Reverse-Rebirth; Sora even in KH1 got a lot of insight into how he works with moving from being a peppy, perky kid to someone who lost his world to someone who accepted the Keyblade and then towards the end, a broken kid who basically lost all hope and even shared those insecurities with Donald and Goofy, like Riku did with Mickey in R-R.
Kairi at present day is still an over-giggly, carefree girl and it's pretty damn sad we had to wait all this while for a possible explanation as to why she behaves like this.

Why use such a word like retcon? In the wrong context too. It's not like it's set in stone what Kairi's feeling, and it's not entirely impossible that she has been suppressing herself. There's no established fact to change or to add unto to that. And she already has some basis in being troubled about her lack of use to her friends. Ever since KH1, actually. It's been a recurring theme of hers. And with good reason. I don't think she's faking being carefree and spunky, but I do believe she's keeping certain things to herself as well. I don't see what's sad that she hasn't been explored yet to that extent. There's only, really, two games to the main storyline, and only one side game where Sora's the main character as well. Kairi's been in a coma for most of one game, stuck in an island the other until the very end, and not present on that other one. KH, it seems, isn't ending soon, so there's plenty of time and gigabytes for her to expand. Just because she's last doesn't make it the worst position.

I can settle for utterly tactless but that leaves her more stupid in my book. And the argument of "she's a regular, normal kid" is kind of hard to swallow when Sora and Riku don't seem to display such "normalities" overall, which reflects back on Kairi's overall detachment from reality and her main role as a faceless plot device.

Does Sora have a pure Heart? He seems completely ignorant on the changes that Riku's making, which is understandable considering he's not born with such intuitions. Tactless is correct, but not mean-spirited. Like I said, she has no clue what she's feeling or why she's having this sort of rift with one of her best friends. Just that something's off, and that going to different worlds with Riku appears to be a bad omen with how things are going. She might have wanted to get this message across to Sora, but it came out the wrong way. Which, again, I find totally normal for someone to do in that sort of situation. It's like someone you know is acting weird, or has been acting weird, and you get the sense that not everything's right. You'll get suspicious despite yourself, and you start acting out on those emotions either to keep it safe or to protect other people from it. Same thing here. I don't know why saying something randomly in a joke makes her stupid, though. People say things all the time without thinking about them, but that doesn't mean they are lacking intelligence for it.
 
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