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Superschlock

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I don't know if someone else caught this or not, admittedly i have not read the entire thread so for all i know this has already been discussed, but has anyone else noticed that "No Heart" is one of the x-anagrams of "Xehanort"

Yeah it was noticed a while ago
 

HeartSeams

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I have no grasp on it because I said Namine has Ven's heart? Oh, but Roxas having it is fine?
Yes, exactly so.

And why else would they CONSTANTLY call Namine a "special" Nobody.
Because that's the closest possible explanation they have for her existence, but she isn't really a Nobody, as she doesn't have a true Body and Soul.

Well I only pointed out that hearts don't always change appearances because that's how you justified Roxas looking like Ven.
And i pointed out how they do when it comes to empty vessels or extremely powerful hearts, which justifies why Roxas looks like Ven.

And here you can't even explain how Namine has emotions. Well then, if Kairi being an acting force gives her emotions, couldn't the same be said for Sora and Roxas? Of course it could!
Of course it could, and that was the explanation most people had before Days and BBS came out when it was revealed that it was actually because he had Ven's heart.

these mysteries and unconfirmed things like the mystery of Ven's heart, it's open to the fans' interpretation.
The problem is that it's not even a mystery anymore. BBS was used to SOLVE the mystery of why Roxas looks like Ven, along with Axel hinting he had a heart, him fainting in CO when he got close to Ven, him dual-wielding. I mean, the games are practically screaming this at you, and it's just shy of Nomura popping on the screen and saying, "look idiot, he has ven's heart".

Trashing me and saying I lack knowledge about the KH universe doesn't accomplish anything really.
It makes me feel a little bit better, plus, in the case of the latter, it's definitely the truth.
 

chasespicer056

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Yes, exactly so.


Because that's the closest possible explanation they have for her existence, but she isn't really a Nobody, as she doesn't have a true Body and Soul.


And i pointed out how they do when it comes to empty vessels or extremely powerful hearts, which justifies why Roxas looks like Ven.


Of course it could, and that was the explanation most people had before Days and BBS came out when it was revealed that it was actually because he had Ven's heart.


The problem is that it's not even a mystery anymore. BBS was used to SOLVE the mystery of why Roxas looks like Ven, along with Axel hinting he had a heart, him fainting in CO when he got close to Ven, him dual-wielding. I mean, the games are practically screaming this at you, and it's just shy of Nomura popping on the screen and saying, "look idiot, he has ven's heart".


It makes me feel a little bit better, plus, in the case of the latter, it's definitely the truth.

Extremely powerful hearts? Then Sora joining with Ven's heart should have changed his appearance.

And let me get this straight. Namine doesn't have a heart, and she doesn't REALLY have a body or soul. Thus, she has emotions. Whereas Nobodies with REAL body and souls don't have emotions. How does that make sense at all?

Can you please stop pretending that it was confirmed that Roxas has Ven's heart. No game character, no ultimania, and no statement from Nomura has confirmed this. It's still open to debate.

Again, that's your interpretation of BBS.

I think I'm starting to understand you. You come up with opinions, and since you thought of them and can find evidence, they suddenly become facts, even if there's evidence to counter them.

Oh, I don't know anything at all about the Kingdom Hearts universe? Wow, I guess I'm on the wrong site.
 

Relix

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Look at it this way...how can Namine carry a heart...when she doesn't have a vessel? Kairi has her body and soul...and Roxas IS Sora's body and soul. Meaning...Namine doesn't have a container for ANYONE's HEART *twilight zone theme* Now Roxas a vessel and soul somehow takes the appearance of someone that is not his somebody Sora. Hmmmm. I wonder why. Maybe because if an empty shell has anyone heart in it...it takes that heart appearance. Ansem SoD showed this with Riku. Now if Roxas looks like Ven instead of Sora...that must mean...inside the empty vessel, is VEN's HEART OOOOOH. No wonder Roxas fainted when he got close to both of his original selves in Days. Because he has Sora's body! and Ven's Heart! Therefore making him a byproduct of them both. So instead of Nomura's feedin us like babies, he dropped us a hint in one of the games? Oh yes. That seems to be the case. Hooray for solving mysteries without a Japanese game directer speaking to an outside party for us to translate and eat like the hungry monkeys we are. ^^
 

HeartSeams

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Extremely powerful hearts? Then Sora joining with Ven's heart should have changed his appearance.
Are you failing to remember that Ven's heart was fractured, incredibly weak, and on the verge of disappearing completely when he went into Sora? He doesn't have a powerful heart, he has an extremely weak on at that point.

And let me get this straight. Namine doesn't have a heart, and she doesn't REALLY have a body or soul. Thus, she has emotions. Whereas Nobodies with REAL body and souls don't have emotions. How does that make sense at all?
I never said her lacking all the components of life made her have emotions, I was saying she is suck a fucked up existence that you shouldn't bother comparing her to anyone or anything as she defies all of the rules and exceptions in KH.

Can you please stop pretending that it was confirmed that Roxas has Ven's heart.
Did you not play the games? It was confirmed.

It's still open to debate.
Only by fools.

I think I'm starting to understand you. You come up with opinions, and since you thought of them and can find evidence, they suddenly become facts, even if there's evidence to counter them.
As opposed to you who comes up with an opinion, finds zero evidence at all, and then acts like they could be true? There is no evidence to counter "Roxas has Ven's Heart". Please, try and find me some so I can show you how futile that was.

Oh, I don't know anything at all about the Kingdom Hearts universe?.
Lacking knowledge about it =/= not knowing anything at all.

Look at it this way...how can Namine carry a heart...when she doesn't have a vessel? Kairi has her body and soul...and Roxas IS Sora's body and soul. Meaning...Namine doesn't have a container for ANYONE's HEART *twilight zone theme* Now Roxas a vessel and soul somehow takes the appearance of someone that is not his somebody Sora. Hmmmm. I wonder why. Maybe because if an empty shell has anyone heart in it...it takes that heart appearance. Ansem SoD showed this with Riku. Now if Roxas looks like Ven instead of Sora...that must mean...inside the empty vessel, is VEN's HEART OOOOOH. No wonder Roxas fainted when he got close to both of his original selves in Days. Because he has Sora's body! and Ven's Heart! Therefore making him a byproduct of them both. So instead of Nomura's feedin us like babies, he dropped us a hint in one of the games? Oh yes. That seems to be the case. Hooray for solving mysteries without a Japanese game directer speaking to an outside party for us to translate and eat like the hungry monkeys we are. ^^
This so fucking hard. How hard is this to understand, seriously?
 

chasespicer056

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Look at it this way...how can Namine carry a heart...when she doesn't have a vessel? Kairi has her body and soul...and Roxas IS Sora's body and soul. Meaning...Namine doesn't have a container for ANYONE's HEART *twilight zone theme* Now Roxas a vessel and soul somehow takes the appearance of someone that is not his somebody Sora. Hmmmm. I wonder why. Maybe because if an empty shell has anyone heart in it...it takes that heart appearance. Ansem SoD showed this with Riku. Now if Roxas looks like Ven instead of Sora...that must mean...inside the empty vessel, is VEN's HEART OOOOOH. No wonder Roxas fainted when he got close to both of his original selves in Days. Because he has Sora's body! and Ven's Heart! Therefore making him a byproduct of them both. So instead of Nomura's feedin us like babies, he dropped us a hint in one of the games? Oh yes. That seems to be the case. Hooray for solving mysteries without a Japanese game directer speaking to an outside party for us to translate and eat like the hungry monkeys we are. ^^

Look, I'll say it again.

I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.

I just don't agree with it. It seems like that's a sin on this thread.

You people are still ignoring a vital part of the mystery: Namine has emotions, long before she came into contact with anyone's heart. So how could she have emotions then?

And HeartSeams, I really don't know how to react to the ignorance. I've provided examples, I came up with a long theory even, and you're still acting like I have no base for what I'm saying.

Now, here's why Roxas might NOT have Ven's heart. I'll try to be clear this time:
*Namine has emotions and blonde hair unlike Kairi's red hair, implying Ven's influence.
*Roxas tells Axel that he's not sure if he has a heart, but if he DID have one, he'd be able to feel it.
*If he has Ven's heart, Ansem would NEVER have referred to him as a Nobody in his reports. And if he did have Ven's heart, I think that a talented researcher like Ansem would have noticed it when he was preparing for Sora's awakening.
 

HeartSeams

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Look, I'll say it again.

I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.

I just don't agree with it. It seems like that's a sin on this thread.

You people are still ignoring a vital part of the mystery: Namine has emotions, long before she came into contact with anyone's heart. So how could she have emotions then?
Namine is irrelevant to whether or not Roxas has Ven's heart.
 

Relix

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Look, I'll say it again.

I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.

I just don't agree with it. It seems like that's a sin on this thread.

You people are still ignoring a vital part of the mystery: Namine has emotions, long before she came into contact with anyone's heart. So how could she have emotions then?

And i'm saying her having Ven's heart isn't the answer to this. She doesn't have a body, a heart, a soul and yet she still exists. The Organization didn't understand, DiZ didn't understand, we won't find the answer, not when we're trying to answer it with things that don't match up. She can't harbor a heart with no body. She could be effected by Ven, anyone who is a product of Sora is. Roxas proved it, Xion proved it, and Namine must be a part of this as well but only Roxas can have the heart of Ven because he is the only one able to carry it. I am throwing facts of the game at you and you are saying, "No." How do you not see how frustrating that is?
 

chasespicer056

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Namine is irrelevant to whether or not Roxas has Ven's heart.

If she has Ven's heart then she isn't.

And i'm saying her having Ven's heart isn't the answer to this. She doesn't have a body, a heart, a soul and yet she still exists. The Organization didn't understand, DiZ didn't understand, we won't find the answer, not when we're trying to answer it with things that don't match up. She can't harbor a heart with no body. She could be effected by Ven, anyone who is a product of Sora is. Roxas proved it, Xion proved it, and Namine must be a part of this as well but only Roxas can have the heart of Ven because he is the only one able to carry it. I am throwing facts of the game at you and you are saying, "No." How do you not see how frustrating that is?

Gah, why does everyone act like they know everything?!

They didn't prove anything. Again, they all could have had emotions for other reasons. Here's a possiblity:
*Roxas emotions cuz of Ven's heart and Xion has emotions because of Roxas's heart feeding her emotions.

So can everyone please stop acting like they're omnipotent and just admit that there are alternatives to these speculative theories?
 

skyfoxx

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If she has Ven's heart then she isn't.

o_0 Namine doesn't have Ven's heart... I don't even get how you came to that conclusion. Last time I read you was a comment on "Maybe that's why Namine has blonde hair" and I thought you were just joking, but you seriously think Namine has Ven's heart?

...um... okay then.

@HeartSeams: Boy, do you seem stressed. I'd suggest walking away from the computer for a good few minutes.
 

HeartSeams

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And HeartSeams, I really don't know how to react to the ignorance. I've provided examples, I came up with a long theory even, and you're still acting like I have no base for what I'm saying.
Holy. You're telling me where else the heart could have gone, not why it couldn't have gone to Roxas. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

*Roxas tells Axel that he's not sure if he has a heart, but if he DID have one, he'd be able to feel it.
That's mistranslation, Roxas doesn't say anything like that in the actual Japanese, by the way.

*If he has Ven's heart, Ansem would NEVER have referred to him as a Nobody in his reports.
1. Why would Ansem know he has Ven's heart?
2. Having Ven's heart doesn't make Roxas not a Nobody.

And if he did have Ven's heart, I think that a talented researcher like Ansem would have noticed it when he was preparing for Sora's awakening.
Uh, Ansem can't see inside Roxas, to see what is floating around in there. oh, but, guess what, Nami can and she made all of Coded happen just to tell Sora that she found something inside of him
 

Zubine

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Roxas looks likes Ventus for the same reason that Vanitas looks like Sora, there hearts are connected.
 

Relix

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Look at it this way...how can Namine carry a heart...when she doesn't have a vessel? Kairi has her body and soul...and Roxas IS Sora's body and soul. Meaning...Namine doesn't have a container for ANYONE's HEART *twilight zone theme* Now Roxas a vessel and soul somehow takes the appearance of someone that is not his somebody Sora. Hmmmm. I wonder why. Maybe because if an empty shell has anyone heart in it...it takes that heart appearance. Ansem SoD showed this with Riku. Now if Roxas looks like Ven instead of Sora...that must mean...inside the empty vessel, is VEN's HEART OOOOOH. No wonder Roxas fainted when he got close to both of his original selves in Days. Because he has Sora's body! and Ven's Heart! Therefore making him a byproduct of them both. So instead of Nomura's feedin us like babies, he dropped us a hint in one of the games? Oh yes. That seems to be the case. Hooray for solving mysteries without a Japanese game directer speaking to an outside party for us to translate and eat like the hungry monkeys we are. ^^

And i'm saying her having Ven's heart isn't the answer to this. She doesn't have a body, a heart, a soul and yet she still exists. The Organization didn't understand, DiZ didn't understand, we won't find the answer, not when we're trying to answer it with things that don't match up. She can't harbor a heart with no body. She could be effected by Ven, anyone who is a product of Sora is. Roxas proved it, Xion proved it, and Namine must be a part of this as well but only Roxas can have the heart of Ven because he is the only one able to carry it. I am throwing facts of the game at you and you are saying, "No." How do you not see how frustrating that is?


How is all of this is hard to fathom? Please tell me. I'm not even trying to be an ass anymore. I want to know WHY you think ROXAS doesn't have VEN'S HEART? Because she has emotions? Does Axel have Ven's heart? He met Ven in BBS, didn't he? Does that satisfy you? That is the logic you are using. Please. Tell me. Why? Why?
 
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skyfoxx

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0_0

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Seriously, how did a thread about a new Mirage Arena boss based on Xemnas' armor called "No Heart" somehow get to an argument about Namine having Ven's heart or something?
 

HeartSeams

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Also, Nami can't have Ven's heart. In Re:Coded she tells Sora that she found memories belonging to Ven inside of Sora/Roxas when she was fixing their memories. If she had Ven's heart, she would have found the memories in herself, but she didn't. Therefore, Nami doesn't have Ven's heart, Roxas did.
 

chasespicer056

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Also, Nami can't have Ven's heart. In Re:Coded she tells Sora that she found memories belonging to Ven inside of Sora/Roxas when she was fixing their memories. If she had Ven's heart, she would have found the memories in herself, but she didn't. Therefore, Nami doesn't have Ven's heart, Roxas did.

What was that you said about not looking too closely at translations earlier? o_O

And considering that Nobodies can have memories without hearts, I think that memories aren't limited just to the heart. And there are probably copies of memories too. That's how Repliku had Riku's memories while Riku retained his. So Sora may have just had copies of Ven's memories, not necessarily his heart.
 

master luigi

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@heartseams
your logic is extremely flawed and chasepicer does have a point.
you said that the heart shapes what a person looks like (which I can agree with) but your logic becomes faulty when you say that it is fact that vens heart is inside of terra when it is infact debatable

since sora technically has two hearts(his and ven's) you assume that ven's went to the nobody roxas.

answer this....why doesn't xemnas have terra's or MX's heart?

that's because hearts don't go to nobodies. whether they have 1 or 2 hearts is irrelevant.
 

HeartSeams

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And considering that Nobodies can have memories without hearts, I think that memories aren't limited just to the heart.
Nobodies can have the memories of the heart that they are the Nobody of, not some random punk. Roxas is not Ven's Nobody. Nami is not Ven's Nobody. Therefore, neither of them would randomly have his memories unless they had his heart.

Naminé never had Ven's heart and Re:Coded proves this.


your logic is extremely flawed
your credibility has already dropped immensely if you think my logic is what is flawed in this debate.

when you say that it is fact that vens heart is inside of terra when it is infact debatable
I don't think you know what you're talking about, hun.

answer this....why doesn't xemnas have terra's or MX's heart?
The reason why Ven's heart went to Roxas is because Ven's heart was broken, and didn't release when Sora stabbed himself. On the flip side, Xehanort did release his heart, which, according to MX was a merged form of all of their hearts. I'm not denying though the possibility of Xemnas having a heart, as how the hearts/memories/powers of MX/Terra/Eraqus is a large part of the mystery that will be solved in KH3D. But I'm not talkiing about them anyway, I'm talking specifically about this one case of Sora and Roxas.
 
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