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Namine, Ventus, and Castle Oblivion



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Vani

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@Revolution:
If that what you said would be true Naminé would have no reason to reunite/merge with Kairi at the end of KH II.
didnt nomura even confirm that she wasnt no ordinary nobody and thats the closest thing she is though?
and still she didnt have to merge with kairi but WTH would she do if she didnt. shes just a shadow nothing more.
 

Sephiroth0812

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It's mentioned in the secret Ansem reports.
Ansem the wise noted how unusual Naminé is because she had neither memories, Soul nor body which usually make up a nobody.
That may bring up the question on how Naminé was even able to interact with the physical world if she had no body...then Marluxia using her as a human shield would also be pointless...

What make you say she didn't have to merge with Kairi? As far as I remember it was said that Kairi is incomplete without Naminé as is Sora without Roxas.
Yeah, Naminé may be only a shadow, or a nobody of a nobody (weird wording, i know), but nothing changes the fact that she was Kairi's shadow, not Ven's.
 

Zyrax

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I was mostly just trying to stir up discussion more than anything. I'm definitely not convinced that she has Ven's body; I just find it rather interesting that she was born into the same place where Ven's body was sleeping, and am curious as to what the implications of that might be.

For one thing: why was she born there, when Roxas was born in Twilight Town? One would think Roxas should have been the one to be drawn to Ven's body, rather than Namine. Might it be connected to the fact that she is the Nobody of someone whose heart lacked darkness?

Well, nobodies being newly born, don't have to be created in TT, but in the Realm of I-between. And CO is in the Realm of In-between.
 

Smile

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We also know that she appears to have gained a body out of absolutely nowhere when she was born from the separation of Sora's body and Kairi's heart, and is a blonde for no apparent reason.

She's Kairi's Nobody but her birth was possible due to Sora, she came from Sora, and has links to Sora's Memories. She's basically Kairi's Nobody in face alone when you look at that.
So yeah. If Roxas is blonde due to Ven, Namine would be too.

Isn't it possible that there might be more of a connection between these two than we've given thought to?

She's Vanitas purified by Ven and Kairi's Light.

I guess Kairi assimilated Ven's body and soul.

To play devil's advocate, there -was- a blank time we know nothing about between Riku saving Namine and Kairi and us seeing Namine once again as a translucent entity and -then- we saw her get absorbed into Kairi.
It's happened before that Bodies disappeared only to reappear elsewhere. It's not completely impossible if the "fade out" Namine was experiencing when they ran into Saix wasn't -just- Namine herself being absorbed into Kairi, but her vessel - being Ven's - returning to Castle Oblivion.
WHY it would return there is the more interesting question seeing how I doubt Ven's Heart was still there.
Mayhap a Lingering Sentiment? Do ho.

And a point this made me ponder.
Vanitas. He was a part of Ven's Heart, right? And, eh. His vessel was... *trollface*?
Maybe Namine's something like that.
Screw this my "Namine is Vanitas" mock comment made sense. */wrist*
 

Sephiroth0812

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@Smile:

Lol, that was a good one...and given Nomura's crazyness there might even a slight possibility of that being true.
*Imagines Vanitas reawakening and seeing him/herself as Naminé in a mirror*
Vanitas: "0_o ...err...WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED? I'M A GIRL NOW, A FEMALE VENTUS?"

However, Vanitas's vessel...wasn't this a body of darkness created by MX when he poked with his keyblade in Ven's chest?
 

Smile

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@Smile:

Lol, that was a good one...and given Nomura's crazyness there might even a slight possibility of that being true.
*Imagines Vanitas reawakening and seeing him/herself as Naminé in a mirror*
Vanitas: "0_o ...err...WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED? I'M A GIRL NOW, A FEMALE VENTUS?"

Yes, because gender-bending is taboo in Kingdom Hearts.
o_o

However, Vanitas's vessel...wasn't this a body of darkness created by MX when he poked with his keyblade in Ven's chest?

At this point I'm about ready to call anything born of Darkness incarnate Unversed since that's basically what they are - emotions given physical form by Vanitas's negativity.
Though whether or not Vanitas and for that matter, Sora between KH1 and KH2 are really vessel-owners or just "Hearts" who manage to reflect their senses of self I'm still not really sure.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Yes, because gender-bending is taboo in Kingdom Hearts.
o_o
Err...excuse me for being stupid, but as a native german I don't understand this fully...was this sarcasm?


At this point I'm about ready to call anything born of Darkness incarnate Unversed since that's basically what they are - emotions given physical form by Vanitas's negativity.
Though whether or not Vanitas and for that matter, Sora between KH1 and KH2 are really vessel-owners or just "Hearts" who manage to reflect their senses of self I'm still not really sure.

Yeah, but I've read on several sites and comments that Vanitas himself is not an Unversed, despite being born as darkness incarnate...he's a human "created" by MX => hey, MX is god now...Lol
Technically, in KH II they said Sephiroth is the embodiment of Cloud's darkness...doesn't that make the KH-incarnation of Sephiroth an Unversed?

Well, maybe I'm simple minded, but don't need Vanitas and Sora some vessel like a body...otherwise they should not be able to be harmed physically i.e. Vanitas getting his butt kicked by Aqua at Neverland or Sora kicked through C.O.s halls by Larxene?
Meh...that's really stupid, thank god Nomura hasn't brought in biology on top of all that stuff...
 

Fractured_Heart628

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Err...excuse me for being stupid, but as a native german I don't understand this fully...was this sarcasm?




Yeah, but I've read on several sites and comments that Vanitas himself is not an Unversed, despite being born as darkness incarnate...he's a human "created" by MX => hey, MX is god now...Lol
Technically, in KH II they said Sephiroth is the embodiment of Cloud's darkness...doesn't that make the KH-incarnation of Sephiroth an Unversed?

Well, maybe I'm simple minded, but don't need Vanitas and Sora some vessel like a body...otherwise they should not be able to be harmed physically i.e. Vanitas getting his butt kicked by Aqua at Neverland or Sora kicked through C.O.s halls by Larxene?
Meh...that's really stupid, thank god Nomura hasn't brought in biology on top of all that stuff...

I thought Vanitas was an Unversed. What is he then?
 

Smile

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Err...excuse me for being stupid, but as a native german I don't understand this fully...was this sarcasm?

It indeed was.
*hugs Xion*

he's a human "created" by MX => hey, MX is god now...Lol

So he'd be a human shaped Unversed. Do ho.

Technically, in KH II they said Sephiroth is the embodiment of Cloud's darkness...doesn't that make the KH-incarnation of Sephiroth an Unversed?

He'd be to Cloud what Vanitas is to Ven.
Wonder if that means Terra's to Cloud what Sora was the Ven...

Well, maybe I'm simple minded, but don't need Vanitas and Sora some vessel like a body...otherwise they should not be able to be harmed physically i.e. Vanitas getting his butt kicked by Aqua at Neverland or Sora kicked through C.O.s halls by Larxene?

That depends on what they can do as "formed Hearts" if that's really what they were. Keep in mind a vessel is basically play-dough. It's not any more physical as anything else if we judge by Riku's constant transformations and back from Rikunort.

Meh...that's really stupid, thank god Nomura hasn't brought in biology on top of all that stuff...

I think that had he stopped to think, in general, least of all about this, we'd have a much more logical series on our hands.
 

Sephiroth0812

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It indeed was.
*hugs Xion*

Damn, I really have to somehow get updated on what happened in Days => glances at Youtube-bookmark.
However, I bet it has something to do with Saix calling Xion "it"...meaning Xion is actually the Cloud of Darkness (genderless?)


So he'd be a human shaped Unversed. Do ho.



He'd be to Cloud what Vanitas is to Ven.
Wonder if that means Terra's to Cloud what Sora was the Ven...



That depends on what they can do as "formed Hearts" if that's really what they were. Keep in mind a vessel is basically play-dough. It's not any more physical as anything else if we judge by Riku's constant transformations and back from Rikunort.

According to what we learned in BBS this would be true for Sephiroth...so some keyblade master must have poked Cloud's chest with a keyblade too...*ggg*
But meh, I bet Nomura has already forgot about that plot point he made with Cloud and Sephi in KH II...

"Formed Hearts" is a good term.
As for Riku, I always thought it was just his body shaping itself to look like Ansem SoD with the power of darkness.
So, looking at DiZ, darkness seemingly gives shapeshiftting abilities...or properties.



I think that had he stopped to think, in general, least of all about this, we'd have a much more logical series on our hands.

Well, on that, are "Nomura" and "Logial" two terms that can be sufficiently brought together? ;)

Smile said:
Only... they're not o_o;

I can only second that...the more I delve into the mysteries of Kingdom Hearts the more "holes" I find...Nomura should take the entire plotline given out so far and try to bring some more...how to put it, "believable" sense in it...LOL
 

Ikkin

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That depends on what they can do as "formed Hearts" if that's really what they were. Keep in mind a vessel is basically play-dough. It's not any more physical as anything else if we judge by Riku's constant transformations and back from Rikunort.

My preferred theory is that Realm of Light bodies are made of light, like Heartless are made of darkness.

In which case, maybe Ven's body lent some of its light (which it would have an excess amount of, due to Ven's BwHoPL status) to Namine to create a body for her...?
 

Sephiroth0812

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@Ikkin:
On your first sentence I'm going to agree with, that would explain the bodies i.e. Eraqus vanishing in "sprinkles" of light.

But on the second, I'm going to repeat myself from earlier in this topic:

If Ven is still a BwaHoPL, where the heck went that Darkness which was Vanitas?
When Ven defeated Vanitas the final time he should have his complete heart again, thus having the however small it was amount of darkness back that MX stole by creating Vanitas.
 

Absolute

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Wasn't there a scene in Days were we see a book titled 'The Truth of Namine' or something? We may have to wait for the next game to explain her.

What we do know about her:

She has power over memories, particularly Sora's.
She was born after Kairi's heart was freed from Sora's body.
She merges with Kairi at the end of KHII.
She's not a nobody but called that in game because she was born similar to one but they don't have a word for her.
She has emotions and ages.
She was born in Castle oblivion where Ven is kept and the place that Aqua made.
Castle oblivion used to be Land of Departure.

Another note: there is a scene in KHII Final mix with Namine, Axel and Riku which may occur right after Sora wakes up. Doesn't Riku 'give' Namine to Axel to watch over? So, if that was the beginning of the game and then we see her next near the end of the game helping Kairi in The World that Never Was, where was she in that long time span?
 

Goldpanner

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Ven is still a BwaHoPL

Okay this series has the most retarded acronyms

What the fuck is that, body without a heart or... princess light?? jdfksc

That may bring up the question on how Naminé was even able to interact with the physical world if she had no body...

It said in the FM+ Ultimania that Namine was given a body using Sora's as an 'intermediary'... and in the same paragraph they described Kairi's heart (iirc) as being the 'intermediary' for the form Sora got when he was changed back from a Heartless.

So, however Namine got a body out of nowhere would be the same way Sora did.

He'd be to Cloud what Vanitas is to Ven.
Wonder if that means Terra's to Cloud what Sora was the Ven...

Although he said Sephiroth is the embodiment of Cloud's darkness, Nomura also said that Tifa was the embodiment of his light. And Ven doesn't have one of those (thank god) so I don't think the situations are the same.

Besides, Vani is the dark part of Ven's heart, physically carved out, not simply his darkness embodied.

So, if that was the beginning of the game and then we see her next near the end of the game helping Kairi in The World that Never Was, where was she in that long time span?

According to the KH2 game novels, she tagged along with Axel in the dark corridors for a while and asked him to bring her to Kairi. Then Saix attacked them and she ran away. Then she found Riku. Then she tagged along with Riku, and was there when Riku opened the portal to save Kairi from Axel (cause Axel was still leaning towards using Kairi as Sora bait rather than taking her to Namine). Then Nami hung out with Riku more, until Saix badly injured Axel when he took Kairi, and Nami and Riku found Axel and saved him. From there, she went and hung out in the Twilight Town mansion, I think DiZ pops up randomly at some point. I can't remember after that... lol
 

Sephiroth0812

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Okay this series has the most retarded acronyms

What the fcuk is that, body without a heart or... princess light?? jdfksc

Actually, it means Being with a heart of Pure Light.

At least that's what I think...I didn't make up this one.
But about that is the question I repeated in my earlier post...;)

As for Naminé's body...in the way you put it there is a possibility to create a body out of nowhere it seems...way to go Nomura, now Roxas and Xion can already have the first part for becoming an own, independent existence...now we need to cook up a Soul somewhere and then breed an own heart for them and we have the recipe for reviving characters which were once part of another as their own existences...lol
 
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