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My thoughts on the future of RAX and TAV trio.



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Nukara

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When reviewing the cutscenes from previous KH games, I noticed how the characters talk about the fact that they cannot always be together.
I think the theme of the next KH games will be “Growing Up”. It seems to me that Lea will try to be the best guardian for Roxas and Xion, but they will become more independent (especially Roxas) who may feel pressured by the fact that he is to some extent in the shadow of Sora and Ventus.
This may lead to a split trio Isa, Lea and Xion will go looking for clues to subject X, and Roxas decides to become a loner and go look for his own place in the world.
Ventus is likely to finally become independent from Terra and Aqua and go on its own adventure, possibly trying to learn more about its past. And Terra and Aqua can teach new keyblade owners.
And I think only about these two trios, because it seems to me that it will also comprehend the SRK trio, Riku will shine himself completely to the Keyblade Masters craft and, like Xehanort, will send wandering around the world.
What are your thoughts on this?
 

Obiewantsanipod

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I like your thoughts on that. To be honest I'd rather not see Terra again, I'd like him to be based in his home world and stay there. Isa and Lea are definitely relevant in that they know subject X. And Xion as a character (heck, even her medals in KHUX) portray her as a very special character, so I can see that hapenning.

My thoughts on Roxas since KHIII came out is that at some point in the next saga he and Ven will switch places for whatever reason (MoM going after the union leaders or something). That way it can be quite the plot twist when you find out at say the end of the game that Ven was Roxas all along. I don't know why I really believe that will happen. Either that, or MoM will go after the wrong Ven, but I like the first idea more.

You referred to Ven as "it" twice, any particular reason?
 

MATGSY

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I really rather the lot of them be retired & never appear again in the series. Not shitting on them here, I just think KH4 needs to be more of a fresh start & dump a lot of the baggage.

Unfortunately that's already not gonna happen.
 

Megavoltage

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I hate the idea of Aqua and Terra leaving the main narrative so they can train students off camera. I want them having adventures.
 

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I would love to TAV finally do something TOGETHER. There's so much emphasis on their friendship and always be together and how they trained together, but we actually see them together in one scene in BBS and after that all they do is fight and argue and in KH3 we also didn't get to see much past that hug and beach scene. I would love to see them develop from Aqua as the overprotective mom, Ven as the irritatingly childish one everyone constantly wants to protect and Terra from being the ... uh ... dork or whatever he was supposed to be.
 

Sephiroth0812

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When it comes to the BBS crew I have to agree with Veevee.

I think it can be more or less safely inferred that in the new saga Ven's past with the Keyblade War, Dandelions and Foretellers will play an important role.
This gives opportunities and chances to further develop Ventus as a character as well as his relationships with other characters.

To that end however I'd love it if this time around Terra and Aqua are with him the whole time and these three actually get to display their supposed closeness on screen.
Let them drive and "live" the plot for once instead of always being forced into specific situations because of it like in BBS itself.

With the Days crew it is a little funny since if I remember correctly both Roxas and Xion were the ones who yearned most for a "normal" life without the Keyblade and massive cross-world adventuring so after KH III finally granted them a second chance at life it would be the prime opportunity to just "leave" them at Twilight Town together with HPO.
Yet I don't think this will happen simply because of the whole newly introduced "Subject X" subplot they introduced in III.
Sure, it concerns mostly Lea and Isa but if it was a thing for them alone they could have situated both of them back at Radiant Garden instead of Twilight Town too.

During the ending beach party montage there are also several background events which show "trio-overlaps" to a certain extent as Ventus is shown playing Frisbee with both Isa and Lea (and they all three have some connection to "Subject X") and also interacting with Donald and Goofy.
Roxas is shown racing with Riku and Terra first, then chatting with both Terra and Aqua while Xion bonds with Naminé.

Going by this, maybe we can hope for the stringent trio-narrative to be retired sometime down the new saga.
 

Veevee

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When it comes to the BBS crew I have to agree with Veevee.

I think it can be more or less safely inferred that in the new saga Ven's past with the Keyblade War, Dandelions and Foretellers will play an important role.
This gives opportunities and chances to further develop Ventus as a character as well as his relationships with other characters.

To that end however I'd love it if this time around Terra and Aqua are with him the whole time and these three actually get to display their supposed closeness on screen.
Let them drive and "live" the plot for once instead of always being forced into specific situations because of it like in BBS itself.

With the Days crew it is a little funny since if I remember correctly both Roxas and Xion were the ones who yearned most for a "normal" life without the Keyblade and massive cross-world adventuring so after KH III finally granted them a second chance at life it would be the prime opportunity to just "leave" them at Twilight Town together with HPO.
Yet I don't think this will happen simply because of the whole newly introduced "Subject X" subplot they introduced in III.
Sure, it concerns mostly Lea and Isa but if it was a thing for them alone they could have situated both of them back at Radiant Garden instead of Twilight Town too.

During the ending beach party montage there are also several background events which show "trio-overlaps" to a certain extent as Ventus is shown playing Frisbee with both Isa and Lea (and they all three have some connection to "Subject X") and also interacting with Donald and Goofy.
Roxas is shown racing with Riku and Terra first, then chatting with both Terra and Aqua while Xion bonds with Naminé.

Going by this, maybe we can hope for the stringent trio-narrative to be retired sometime down the new saga.

Which leads me to wishing that they won't be so strict with their trio-thingy in KH3. I'd hope they are less focused on always pairing three people together and more on what makes sense for the story or for the character development. I especially loved that Xion-Naminé bonding there because I really think the series needs some more femaleness other than being the token third person because it mixes things up a bit. I also wouldn't mind if Xion and Roxas stayed with HPO and protected the city while Isa and Lea go looking for X, Ventus is obviously being reached by his Ux stuff so Aqua and Terra should be sure to jump in - I really hope Nomura doesn't fill their pasts with more nonsense and just lets them stay active for the simple, but pretty convincing reason that their friend might need help. Kairi obviously won't do anything and her friendship with Riku as well as Sora's love to her are pretty much nonexistent now so since she can't make a good plot device anymore, they just shouldn't bother with her anymore. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate her but I can't see more building up for nothing but the third iteration of damsel in distress, so just ... don't try.
 

Alpha Baymax

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I really rather the lot of them be retired & never appear again in the series. Not shitting on them here, I just think KH4 needs to be more of a fresh start & dump a lot of the baggage.

Unfortunately that's already not gonna happen.

No offence, but I find that to be a fundamentally insulting idea.

These characters were designed for us to get invested in. We've been involved in their adventures, and to dismiss them just because Xehanort's schemes are over is insulting to the narrative potential they can achieve now that they are unaffiliated with Xehanort. A lot of the baggage was all about Xehanort and how he had to remain relevant as the antagonist.

My prediction, dump the group of trios (excluding the Destiny Trio). It was evident in the Kingdom Hearts III ending that the BBS trio and Days trio intertwined with each other (with Roxas talking to Terra and Aqua, and Lea and Isa playing with Ventus). Let's get some mashup of friendship dynamics for the sequel.
 

Elysium

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The truth is many of these characters don't really have much "character" to them beyond being victims. Isa, Aqua, and Namine are the only ones I'd be interested in seeing more of, but Namine didn't even get much in KH3 itself, so... I think Isa and especially Lea will definitely be back because of the Mystery Girl plot. The rest, who knows. I'd be fine if they disappear. SDG + Mickey and Riku are the only protagonists this series really needs. Any others are window dressing.
 

MATGSY

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No offence, but I find that to be a fundamentally insulting idea.

These characters were designed for us to get invested in. We've been involved in their adventures, and to dismiss them just because Xehanort's schemes are over is insulting to the narrative potential they can achieve now that they are unaffiliated with Xehanort. A lot of the baggage was all about Xehanort and how he had to remain relevant as the antagonist.
KH lore has gotten more & more alienating to newcomers. A soft reboot helps the series gets more newcomers who don't feel lost trying to make sense of it all. Excuse me for being more concerned for real people than fictional people.
 

Raz

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Giving development and meaningful interaction to the characters you already have (and devoted an entire game to saving) would be far more simpler and more enjoyable than soft-resetting and starting over with new characters to ruin.

What would TAV and RAX and Namine behave like outside of the context of the (in some cases decade long) Xehanort-induced trauma? How would they function as heroes? Lets give them meaningful development and story-arcs outside of being exiled or comatose.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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KH lore has gotten more & more alienating to newcomers. A soft reboot helps the series gets more newcomers who don't feel lost trying to make sense of it all. Excuse me for being more concerned for real people than fictional people.

The problem isn’t with the characters, the problem is with the story. The reasons most people stick with the series are because they like the characters and they like the gameplay.

Soft-resetting the story and cutting out beloved characters would only serve to alienate the 3mil+ audience they have built.

If we are looking for viable solutions, soft-resetting the story but keeping the cast and developing their personalities and personal goals would be a much more effective method if they want to draw in newcomers while keeping old hats around.

EDIT: in fact, I think that by introducing the whole “worldline” concept in KH3, Nomura is essentially creating that possibility of soft-resetting.
 
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Zettaflare

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There is also the possibility of Lauriam, Elrena, and Luxord joining the cast as heroes once they are recompleted. Maybe Demyx as well if he isn't who I think he is.
When it comes to the BBS crew I have to agree with Veevee.

I think it can be more or less safely inferred that in the new saga Ven's past with the Keyblade War, Dandelions and Foretellers will play an important role.
This gives opportunities and chances to further develop Ventus as a character as well as his relationships with other characters.

To that end however I'd love it if this time around Terra and Aqua are with him the whole time and these three actually get to display their supposed closeness on screen.
Let them drive and "live" the plot for once instead of always being forced into specific situations because of it like in BBS itself.

With the Days crew it is a little funny since if I remember correctly both Roxas and Xion were the ones who yearned most for a "normal" life without the Keyblade and massive cross-world adventuring so after KH III finally granted them a second chance at life it would be the prime opportunity to just "leave" them at Twilight Town together with HPO.
Yet I don't think this will happen simply because of the whole newly introduced "Subject X" subplot they introduced in III.
Sure, it concerns mostly Lea and Isa but if it was a thing for them alone they could have situated both of them back at Radiant Garden instead of Twilight Town too.

During the ending beach party montage there are also several background events which show "trio-overlaps" to a certain extent as Ventus is shown playing Frisbee with both Isa and Lea (and they all three have some connection to "Subject X") and also interacting with Donald and Goofy.
Roxas is shown racing with Riku and Terra first, then chatting with both Terra and Aqua while Xion bonds with Naminé.

Going by this, maybe we can hope for the stringent trio-narrative to be retired sometime down the new saga.

I bet Aqua and Terra were asking Roxas why he looked like Ven, lol
 

Elysium

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EDIT: in fact, I think that by introducing the whole “worldline” concept in KH3, Nomura is essentially creating that possibility of soft-resetting.
I can't remember what "worldline" was... In what way do you mean soft-reset? As in dropping characters?

I'm not sure what Nomura will actually do. Most of his decisions are random.
 

Zettaflare

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I can't remember what "worldline" was... In what way do you mean soft-reset? As in dropping characters?

I'm not sure what Nomura will actually do. Most of his decisions are random.
When she says "wordline" I think she is referring to examples like Shinjuku from the secret ending being a video game in Toy Box's reality. There could be worlds like that next saga
 

Oracle Spockanort

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I can't remember what "worldline" was... In what way do you mean soft-reset? As in dropping characters?

I'm not sure what Nomura will actually do. Most of his decisions are random.

Secret reports 11 and 12


Soft-reset as in two things:

1) they don’t address the past story at all and treat post-KH3 as a fresh starting point outside of a reference here and there to past events. The same characters would be around.

2) by having multiple worldlines, that means alternate realities exist in canon. If they ever wished to start KH over with a clean slate, they have a canon excuse for it and they can essentially create new stories that don’t interfere with the canon of the main storyline.

When she says "wordline" I think she is referring to examples like Shinjuku from the secret ending being a video game in Toy Box's reality. There could be worlds like that next saga

Yeah, kinda like that...In that alternate realities exist.
 

Face My Fears

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I think they should have TAV go on a journey together in the side game. You can switch gameplay between the 3 characters and in true RPG style you can upgrade them however you wish. Ven is clearly linked to the UX/Foretellers stuff that is upcoming in KHIV.

I really hope that Xion and Roxas stay in Twilight Town and renounce their keyblade wielder lives. They wanted a chance to live a normal life, so I would love to see them actually choosing to stay out of the fight and other characters honoring it. It would be nice to visit Twilight Town and they join your party while you deal with the mess there, then they stay in Twilight Town to protect it, but don't want to leave their now home world.

It's clear that Axel and Isa will be key to KHIV with their "Girl X" storyline. I would love Namine to be somehow linked to that girl and you have to enter her mind (Inside Out world) to gain a buried memory that she absorbed while manipulating other memories.
 

Twilight Lumiair

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*In response to the OP*
Hmm… Interesting thoughts. It would actually go in line with what Nomura said prior to the release of KH3, regarding how friendships can change as one grows and matures. Personally, I could see much of this happening, though I do have to say that the TAV trio in particular desperately need more time to shine as a group as well. So like what does a normal day look like for them when they aren't fighting each other, separated, or trying to save the RoL (I.e. when things aren't in disarray)? More and better showings of how their relationship dynamic works & feels could greatly enhance it's believability, and flesh out the characters much more in the process. Also, I'm not particularly fond of the idea of Aqua and Terra being in any way sidelined while Ventus most likely goes off on his journey to uncover his past. We just got them back after all, and they still have a lot of potential to bring to the story if utilized well (already seen some pretty creative ideas regarding Terra's future role in a recent thread in fact). That goes for the rest of the returning protags as well. That said, I'm not much of a fan of them only being relevant through Ventus either.

In regards to Roxas and Xion, I could definitely see it being as you proposed. In particular, I really like the idea of Roxas doing a bit of soul searching in the event that he still has some persisting doubts about his true place in the world (a lingering effect from his time as a Nobody perhaps), because that would give all the scrutiny and dehumanization he had to endure over the course of his life some real, long lasting consequence that isn't just going to be dropped (this could be an effective contrast with Xion, who, by character, would have a much easier time dealing with that sort of thing overall). At the same time, now that both he and Xion finally have their own lives that won't be hindered by the existence of another, they should learn that it's also their responsibility to protect that new life, regardless of what that means. After all, they spent so much time fighting to gain their own lives, but defending it can be an even more difficult hurdle.The resulting conflict could help them evolve into proper heroes the same way many of the other protagonist did, while simultaneously coming to terms with any lingering doubts and tensions they may still posses. I mean, Xion is already a hero at her core, so having her embrace that more would be a really satisfying change to see by itself. In Roxas’ case, it could help him overcome one of his main character flaws. He's always struggled with putting someone else's needs before his own, especially when it comes at a risk to his own well being. I think it would be really cool to watch him grow into a more selfless individual who better understands how and when to act for the greater good. This could even contrast with Sora potentially learning to be more level headed and less reckless when it comes to putting himself in harm's way. Of course, this is all hypothetical, but fun to think about for sure.

In any case, I always felt that establishing a new, personal arc for these characters to grow through was essential if they're ever going to be brought back into the series in a big way, but aside from a select few protagonist, that was one of the things I feel Kh3 didn't do very well (if it intended to at all) because of how little chance much of the returning cast actually got to develop in the game. It's definitely wishful thinking, but hopefully we get a satisfying continuation of the already existing protagonist's stories instead of sidelining much of them as soon as they returned to the series.
 
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Ballad of Caius

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The KINGDOM HEARTS franchise has enough main characters to give each, and every one of them, their own standalone title. I feel like KH can be milked even further than FINAL FANTASY.

That said, I was of the opinion of a soft-reboot and leaving some Xehanort Saga characters in the past, but with the good arguments here, I'd rather we straighten out the existing cast, and give them justice. I feel like the Foretellers Saga will be three games long. That's enough time.
 

Obiewantsanipod

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The KINGDOM HEARTS franchise has enough main characters to give each, and every one of them, their own standalone title. I feel like KH can be milked even further than FINAL FANTASY.

That said, I was of the opinion of a soft-reboot and leaving some Xehanort Saga characters in the past, but with the good arguments here, I'd rather we straighten out the existing cast, and give them justice. I feel like the Foretellers Saga will be three games long. That's enough time.


Unless the story gets developed enough to warrant a trilogy, I'd rather it be a duology instead. I can't make a good enough argument on a whim, but 3 games is a loooong time. KHUX's plot by far has some of Nomura's best writing, but I'd really rather the next saga isn't dragged out for another 15 years. That, and the fact that Nomura has already mentioned one or two games before KHIV makes me think the spin-offs in between numbered titles can cover all necessary story elements.
 
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