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My thoughts on Sora/Roxas/Ven, "Birth by Sleep", and all that good stuff...



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sora4ever

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Ok... so I'm FINALLY compiling all of my thoughts together for my "My Theory" page for people to read, make wierd faces at the screen when they see how long the post is, make wierd faces because they feel like it, to flame me because they don't like me, and hopefully, maybe to discuss this stuff a little.

I'll touch on several of the "Hot Topics" that are being currently discussed in the forums that I have decent theories on... such as: The connection between Sora/Roxas/Ven, "Birth by Sleep, A fourth mysterious person who showed up in Deep Dive but no one noticed, Kairi's Keyblade, and maybe a little on Mickey. So here we go....

And again, these are MY thoughts, not what I think IS... I do not think that I know EVERYTHING about KH and what is to come... these are mearly my thoughts that I have compiled and organized... AND EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE ON HERE GOES ALONG WITH MY BELIEF THAT THE TIMELINE IS... KH2FMSE... THEN KH1... THEN COM... THEN KH2... As in.. The Secret ending you see in KH2 FM+ comes BEFORE KH1... so again... here we go, and enjoy...

Connection Between Sora/Roxas/Ven

I believe that Ven was a normal person, Sora is a normal person, and Roxas was created into a normal person... (I know that probably doesn't make sense yet, but I'll explain)

Ok... this whole thing starts with Ven... Alright, for you poor souls who have yet to see the KH2FMSE... here it is... YouTube - KH2 Final Mix Secret Ending HIGH QUALITY If you haven't seen it, or haven't seen it in FOREVER and don't remember it clearly, watch it real quick, you'll need it... Ok.. back to my theory...

Ok.. in the midst of the major PWNAGE the UEM is dealing upon the 3 knights (Again for you who don't know... the tallest knights, or guy with brown hair is Terra... The girl with blue hair is Aqua... and the guy who gets frozen is Ven. The bald guy is the UEM because we don't know his name... and the wierd lookin guy is known as the DS and I will refer to them as such)... After Terra's arm gets frozen, we see Ven appear behind the UEM and attempt an attack... failing miserably and getting grabbed by the back of the head by the UEM. This is where it gets interesting... just before the UEM freezes him, he sends a black mist through him... I believe that at this point, the UEM removed Ven's heart. This would explain why his keyblade is able to shatter, and in the next shot of the UEM, we see him holding something... if you continually push the play/pause button, the scene progresses slowly enough that, if you catch it at the right angle, it looks like a heart inside the sphere. I believe this is Ven's heart and that's what the UEM was after to begin with so that he could summon Kingdom Hearts. This is where Sora comes in... I think something happened with KH, and that Ven's heart was set loose. And I believe that it came to inhabit Sora... So that Sora became a vessel for Ven's heart. And when Sora released Kairi's and the other princesses hearts, he also released Ven's heart... and when his nobody, Roxas, was created, it was created with Ven's heart... this would be why Roxas is IDENTICAL to Ven, and would make him have a heart (Axel: You really do have a heart don't you?) and be able to wield a Keyblade. And when Roxas became part of Sora again... it was mearly Ven's heart returning to him... and now Ven will start to awaken... as in (A new story awaits the Awakening... Look at my birth by sleep section, it'll explain more...) Make sense? I hope so.. this is hard work. lol.. jk.

Mysterious 4th person in Deep Dive

Ok, I'm going to get into this one next because it deals with some of the things I said above...

Alright... so it's like this... In another thread, we were discussing the fourth person that shows up in Deep Dive... I'll explain...

This may have been discussed in the past. But remember Deep Dive? Of course you do. I'm sure you remember the fight between Riku and Roxas. And Xemnas standing on the beach... And the person coming out of a rock..... Yeah, the last one I want to focus on.
When the guy comes out of the rock, we see a Heartless symbol. The person (with a creepy glowing eye) coming from the rock is supposed to be Roxas. But why does he have a Heartless symbol? He's a Nobody!?
HeartlessSymbol.jpg

Next, at the very end of Deep Dive we see a picture of four people. From right to left it's Xemnas, Roxas, Riku and.....Again Roxas??
4Characters.jpg

Why would they put him in the picture twice? This must indicate that they are different characters. But who is this glowing guy..... Ven? Nah, long shot....

This is the post made by Bryantjj... this started the thread...

Now this is the post I made...

sora4ever said:
Oh my goodness! I have had an epifany!! I wanted to kick myself for not thinking about this earlier!!! Ok... I'll try to make sense of this...

Alright... get the video of KH2 FM Secret ending in your head... ok... remember the part where Ven is being held by the head by UEM? (Of course you do! Most memorable part of the vid! lol) Ok... well when the UEM freezes Ven, he first sends a black mist through him... if you can't remember, go to youtube and watch it again, he sends a black mist through Ven, then freezes him. I have a theory about what happened at this point... When UEM sent the black mist through Ven, he was removing Ven's heart, which he used in the next shot of him to summon Kingdom Hearts (This explains why his Keyblade was able to shatter, and explains why UEM suddenly has something in his hand... Which if you continuously push the pause button so that the scene progresses EXTREMELY slow, you can see when he holds it up, that it looks like a heart. This is what I think happened at that point.) This will all have relevance in just a second, I promise.

OK.. now what ALWAYS happens when someone loses their heart?!?!?!

THEY BECOME A HEARTLESS!!!!!!!!

This makes EVERYTHING fit! The heartless symbol on the glowing-eyed guy, his eyes glowing like heartless eyes, him looking like Roxas/Sora ("He looks just like you" or whatever the quote is), him being able to use portals of darkness, and all that good stuff!

So... this is what I've put together, and it makes sense to me, just like Bryantjj said, why would they put the same person in the final shot 2 times? And why would a nobody have a Heartless symbol on their chest... and another thing about that... I didn't mention this in my other post, but if you remember Ansem, Xehanorts Heartless, when you see him at the end of the game, with his shirt unbuttoned, you see a heartless symbol on his chest as well. Which, I think, means that the figure that comes out of the rock at that scene HAS to be a heartless. Thus, must be Ven. These are my thoughts.... enjoy.

"Birth by Sleep"

I have just recently gathered my thoughts on "Birth by Sleep"... They are still a little hazy, and still being sorted and organized in my head... but this is what I have so far...

I was able to come across subbed cutscenes from KH2 FM... and in one of them, they discuss something that Xemnas was doing "secretly"... He goes down below Hollow Bastion castle, to the room you go to in KH2 where you get sucked into the computer and meet Tron...

Xemnas walks in here, makes the camera turn off, and inserts a disk into the drive. He enters his ID "Another" --- (Side note: If you switch the letters around.... Xehanort= No Heart .... Xehanort= Another plus the "x" Which is why I think his ID is Another. Just a side note) And he enters the pass., the princesses names, and starts some program or something, takes the disk out, and continues over to the elevator that takes you into that HUGE room. (What this last parts relevance is, I'm not sure, I want to know what he uploaded, or downloaded to that computer) Anywho's after lots of walking down into a secret area, he comes to a door that opens automatically for him, and it appears there are chains that run all across the room, and when Xemnas comes in and sits in a chair, these chains light up and he says, "It's been a long time, my old friend." Or something like that, and then the camera goes over to what looks like a suit of armor (Is this what you guys were saying was Aqua's armor?) and a Keyblade. That's the end of that cutscene... and I know I kind of just stopped what I was previously saying, but I'm coming back to it...

In KH2 FM in that scene where a hooded Org. Member and Zexion are discussing something Xemnas is doing "secretly", the "Room of Sleep" is mentioned... I'm pretty sure that the room I just described Xemnas was in is this room. Because the hooded Org. member says that he has heard Xemnas talking to someone in there. And he says that there cannot be a "Room of Sleep" without a "Room of Awakening" where he believes the person Xemnas is talking to resides. This is probably just recap for some of you guys, but I'm getting to my thoughts, which I'm still trying to sort in my head...

I don't think that we will play KH3 in the past... No.. I think that, just like in the KH1 SE that this is something that will be explained and hit on in the plot, but I believe that we will still play as Sora, Goofy, and Donald... but they will be discovering the History of all this, DON'T HOUND ON ME JUST YET! KEEP LISTENING! Ok... I have already mentioned my theory on how Roxas and Ven and Sora are all connected around here somewhere... But the reason why I still think we will play as Sora... is because in an interview with Nomura... he states, "Kingdom Hearts is Sora's story." I think that we will deal with the past ALOT... but I think it will be done in the time of Sora. And another thing, The "Room of Sleep" and the "Room of Awakening" are talked about in KH2 FM... which is clearly AFTER the KH2 FMSE, because of the armor and keyblade. And at the end of the SE, it says "A new story awaits the awakening" I believe this is referring to the awakening memories and self of Ven... maybe Terra and Aqua too... but I think mainly Ven... I think his heart and his "self" will awaken from sleeping, or laying dormant inside Sora, this whole time... and Sora might start having "reaccuring dreams" as twilight likes... lol... and he will dive into and discover the past of the Keyblade.

That's what I've got on that for now...

Kairi's Keyblade

Well.. while I know there isn't much information about Kairi's Keyblade... I don't believe that it is insignificant... While I don't know if we will ever see Kairi fight again... I like to think that she is, is some way, connected to the knights in the SE... I know that's REALLY EEEXXXTTTRRREEEMMMMEELLLYYY Far fetched... and right now I don't have anything on it... but it's just something I've been thinking about... like the names... Ven=Wind, Sora=Sky... Terra=Earth, Riku=Land.... Aqua=Water, Kairi=Sea. I don't know how they would be connected... but I'm still digging and waiting for info... but for now.. I'm not pushing Kairi's Keyblade aside. I've said this in another topic, but I just don't think that Nomura would just throw in a Keyblade for Kairi just for the heck of it... I think there has to be a reason...

But really... "Anything is Possible". The questions I want answered are... Is that Keyblade Kairi's Keyblade now? Is she able to call upon it and wield it at will? In other words... has it become what the Kingdom Key and Way to Dawn have become to Sora and Riku.. and if so... it that the keyblades true form? Or does it have a Keychain on it that is altering it's appearance? If these questions were answered, along with a couple others, I could have better insight into this.. but for now, I'm speaking only on whim... sadly.

Bits about Mickey

First of all... I've said this over and over, but here goes... Nomura said himself that for every heart, there is ONE keyblade made for them. In other words... I believe that Mickey has had the Opposite Keyblade for as long as he has had a Keyblade, and that Star Seeker was MEARLY a KEYCHAIN just as it was for Sora... and that Yen Sid gave him that Keychain while Mickey was an apprentice to him... as a result... I believe that Mickey was Yen Sid's apprentice during the KH2FMSE...

There are many people who think that Mickey "went out and got" the Opposite Keyblade... NO... you can't just waltz out and say, "Oh I think I'm gonna get a new keyblade today." no no no... haha. Mickey had the Opposite blade already.

And I don't really have anything else on Mickey that I can think of at the moment... granted it is 1:41am... haha....

Well I think that's all I've got for now... I'll probably edit this post in the future as my theories develop and I gain new ideas... Feel free to discuss and make wierd faces at me... and remember... it's called CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISISM. lol... Thanks for reading all the way down here if you made it this far without falling asleep or other things of that nature.
 

sora4ever

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lol.. I didn't know that... well.. if you ever do read it, let me know what you think.. I know it's long.. but I needed to get it all in one place.
 

Ansem Darkheart

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Whew! That took a while to read, but it was worth it. I just want to correct you on one thing. Ansem (Xehanort's Heartless) does not have a Heartless Emblem, its just a necklace. Common mistake. Only Heartless made in the lab/factory have Emblems.(Read the Ansem reports) Pure Heartless don't have any Emblems.

Now thats out of the way. I think you Deep Dive observations are pretty interesting. I had never thought to question why Roxas was in there twice. Your Ven theories I think have the right ideas. But, why would Xemnas be talking to Ven. And why does Ven have an Organization cloak. If what you said about Ven being reborn into Roxas is true, how can they both exist at the same time. By what you said both pictures in Deep Dive are both Ven and Roxas.

I do think your on to something with the Ven's heart being inside of Sora. As far as Kairi's Keyblade goes, I don't have a clue as to what Nomura has in store for us. I do agree with your standing on Mickey's Keyblade.

The hooded Org. member discussing the Room of Sleep with Zexion was revealed to be Xigbar. Just thought I would clear that up for you.
 

Chosenoneknuckles

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I believe that at this point, the UEM removed Ven's heart. This would explain why his keyblade is able to shatter, and in the next shot of the UEM, we see him holding something... if you continually push the play/pause button, the scene progresses slowly enough that, if you catch it at the right angle, it looks like a heart inside the sphere. I believe this is Ven's heart and that's what the UEM was after to begin with so that he could summon Kingdom Hearts. This is where Sora comes in... I think something happened with KH, and that Ven's heart was set loose. And I believe that it came to inhabit Sora... So that Sora became a vessel for Ven's heart. And when Sora released Kairi's and the other princesses hearts, he also released Ven's heart... and when his nobody, Roxas, was created, it was created with Ven's heart... this would be why Roxas is IDENTICAL to Ven, and would make him have a heart (Axel: You really do have a heart don't you?) and be able to wield a Keyblade. And when Roxas became part of Sora again... it was mearly Ven's heart returning to him... and now Ven will start to awaken... as in (A new story awaits the Awakening... Look at my birth by sleep section, it'll explain more...) Make sense? I hope so.. this is hard work. lol.. jk.

I also believe that the UEM (who I don't think is Xehanort, cos its well too obvious for me) took Ven's heart, the other two needed to protect him because he was special (and not just because he was young and blantly inexperienced).

What I don't get with ur theory and others' (forgetting the timeline issues of when this happened), in how can u hope to explain how Ven's heart transcended realms (going from KH) to the realm of light and into Sora and then when? It seems too much of a coincedance to me, there has to be something else since we know if won't be a blood relation type thing...
 

Eagl

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Man long theory but its a great one. This is one of the best Ive read so far. These things have been talked about before and I havent thaught it was true but when you put it together it make sense. But I dont really understand the deep dive but I do understand the most of it and its enough for now.

Also Mickey went to find the inverse keyblade when he went away from the castle. But what keyblade did he have before?. He might have had the KK before. And if you look at the secret ending you cant see a keychain on the starseeker.

And the reason I think that the three knights have similar names with Sora, Riku and Kairi is becuase I think thats a new important trio.

But still one fo the best theorys Ive read so far
 
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Roxas_is_sora_x

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I think that that is absolutley true. it all fits in together. i have just watched the KH2SE (secret ending) which i didnt see whne i beat the game. Who is the guy that looks like spiderman whos an ally of UEM?
Can someone make this clear.!
 

Roxas_is_sora_x

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okay first of all:
these are te facts ive gathered from around the web
It will have an involvement with this -->
Gametrailers.com - kingdom hearts : time of dying by moonxglobal
Sora will NOT die

thats just what i reckon

besides that... whats with the graveyard of keyblades? is that each keyblade for each pure heart?
is the blue haired knight a guy or a chick?
whos the guy that looks like evil spidey?
PLEASE LET KH3 BE OUT ON PS2. im too poor to get a PS3
i hope you can help me and me help you
 

Zexilicious

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After Terra's arm gets frozen, we see Ven appear behind the UEM and attempt an attack... failing miserably and getting grabbed by the back of the head by the UEM. This is where it gets interesting... just before the UEM freezes him, he sends a black mist through him... I believe that at this point, the UEM removed Ven's heart. This would explain why his keyblade is able to shatter, and in the next shot of the UEM, we see him holding something... if you continually push the play/pause button, the scene progresses slowly enough that, if you catch it at the right angle, it looks like a heart inside the sphere. I believe this is Ven's heart and that's what the UEM was after to begin with so that he could summon Kingdom Hearts. This is where Sora comes in... I think something happened with KH, and that Ven's heart was set loose. And I believe that it came to inhabit Sora... So that Sora became a vessel for Ven's heart. And when Sora released Kairi's and the other princesses hearts, he also released Ven's heart... and when his nobody, Roxas, was

XD That's a sort of popular theory amongst a few people on this forum, including myself. This is the third thread that I've seen with this theory in it (Including my thread with this alone), but I'm not complaining. That's a good one.

As for the rest of the theory, it makes good sense. I like it.
 

Griever!

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*sigh* don't know if this is true but there is a nomura report saying that deep dive was just kinda thrown together to gather attention i heard this but......what u said already been explained by me....V.A.T 13 and more people and if u remember in kh2 the guy coming out of the rock is roxas like i said apparently this isn't a relavant trailer to base theories off of....once again some one aid this to me but Ven and roxas has been thoroughly explained in so many different ways....

and it seems like u r all starting to gather at a point made long ago about this whole roxas and ven thing i find it entertaining but the threads have already been made and the process u explained has already been stated...multiple times u just got to loo for the righ threads i have a bunch of roxas' threads around and every one of those threads builds off of the other but apparently i think it s about time An ultimate thread for roxas is made so we don't dance around htis topic already more than we have
 

Griever!

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theories aresupposed to be long to support the topicsit is best to read them little at a time i am making the ultimate roxas thread but i need more Roxas theories and am just a litttle bit too tird to find them right now
 

Roxas 22

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This is where it gets interesting... just before the UEM freezes him, he sends a black mist through him... I believe that at this point, the UEM removed Ven's heart. This would explain why his keyblade is able to shatter, and in the next shot of the UEM, we see him holding something... if you continually push the play/pause button, the scene progresses slowly enough that, if you catch it at the right angle, it looks like a heart inside the sphere. I believe this is Ven's heart and that's what the UEM was after to begin with so that he could summon Kingdom Hearts.

Srry but if u pause it just before the Sphere is created u see The UEM's Keyblade Fade Away and then the sphere forms so (and this is just my theory) if there is a Heart in the Sphere it is the keyblades Heart not Ven's. Or Here is another Theroy Vens heart and The keyblade's Heart went into it went into it and the rest u said about Ven's Heart going into Roxas yeah i belevie That
 
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