What's new

Welcome to Kingdom Hearts Insider

Join us now to get access to all our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, and so, so much more. It's also quick and totally free, so what are you waiting for?

Ask question

Ask Questions and Get Answers from Our Community

Ask a Mod

Ask Questions from your staff

Contact Staff

If you need additional information or have a concern please contact us.

  • Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

*MoM SPOILERS!* We really need to talk about Kairi...



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

kirabook

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
1,562
Reaction score
605
Points
115
Awards
4
Location
RoL
I know a lot of KH fans don't read the Ansem reports, but as a fandom collective, I'm pretty sure most people know Xehanort the apprentice is the one that yeeted Kairi. Not only that, he destroyed Radiant Garden, her home world. He tormented her bffs and even her new friends recently rescued. He also killed her in KH3, which set Sora on the path to sacrificing himself for her??? I mean, that's a good amount of beef, isn't it? Why wouldn't she want to take on Xehanort after all that even if she doesn't remember most of the childhood stuff?

I don't care what naysayers say though. They got their crappy "It's a dream!" excuse, meanwhile, Kairi wins a fight against Xehanort and there's no ifs or butts. I'm not in the business of pleasing people who will always and forever hate Kairi because she's Kairi. I want this character to be built up and have a win for once. To me, it's worse that she can't 1 on 1 Xehanort and needed ghost Sora to save her instead of letting her fight him herself.

I don't see any benefits to having someone else do it the way it happened in MoM. Even if she has to call on the power of all her friends (which I would have preferred), I don't think we needed a transformation scene of Sora taking her place for this one fight.
 

LoneFox

Active member
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Messages
207
Reaction score
84
Points
28
Awards
3
I don't see any benefits to having someone else do it the way it happened in MoM. Even if she has to call on the power of all her friends (which I would have preferred), I don't think we needed a transformation scene of Sora taking her place for this one fight.
Why so? I think it makes at least some sense for her first formchange to be Sora Form... 🙃
 

Sign

trapped in revamp hell
Staff member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
17,544
Reaction score
2,021
Points
115
Awards
36

MATGSY

Silver Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
5,740
Reaction score
1,537
Points
115
Awards
8
What if we blame it on not being a lucid dream?
 

Zackarix

Active member
Joined
Jun 12, 2021
Messages
141
Reaction score
102
Points
43
Awards
2
I have to write a message for my Angelica meme to be a reply.
BTW thread necromancer why did you bother digging up a thread that had been dead for over half a year? Just to post a bad meme? I can't even tell if you're complaining about Kairi's treatment in MoM or complaining about the complainers.

I think the point that most justifications or excuses for how Kairi was treated in KH3 and MoM miss is that this is a fictional story. This isn't an archeological dig where we're merely discovering the facts, the only reason ANYTHING happens in a story is because the writers choose to have it happen. Trying to justify those events with in-universe logic will fall flat because the complaint is aimed at an out-of-universe decision.

If Kairi landing a blow on Master Xehanort is so unthinkable even with the excuse that it's just a memory, not the real thing then don't have her solo Xehanort! Either change the villain or have Kairi discover some way to counter his power. Having Kairi literally be replaced by Sora is pathetic.
 

bambii

Active member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
225
Reaction score
217
Points
43
Awards
4
Age
28
Location
NYC
I don't see any benefits to having someone else do it the way it happened in MoM. Even if she has to call on the power of all her friends (which I would have preferred), I don't think we needed a transformation scene of Sora taking her place for this one fight.
I'm probably being overly optimistic and will eat these words a few years from now, but I think there is a way to read this as set-up for a proper character arc for Kairi. Of course it's way past due, but better late than never. Up till now, the problems and challenges Kairi faces have always been filtered through her relationship to Sora and/or Riku. Her memory-confrontation with Xehanort is the first time in the entire series that we actually get to experience Kairi's own internal psychological conflicts. I totally get why people are pissed off about Sora saving the day in such nonsensical fashion, but at the same time, I'd probably be even more disappointed if they finally set her up to confront her trauma, then have her immediately succeed on her first go-around. In my opinion, that would be more—not less—shallow, because it would trivialize the intensity of what she's going through.

Of course Nomura could still totally bungle this and fail to carry through on building up Kairi's character once again, but I really do think there is reason to be optimistic. ReMind/MoM literally comprise the opening chapter of the entire Phase 2 saga. This is not the time to resolve long-simmering conflicts; on the contrary, it's the time to set them up, and I think MoM does that very effectively for Kairi. She's dealing with psychological trauma and the ghost/specter/memory of her abuser—a scenario in which her age-old proclamation of "this time, I'll fight" finally doesn't ring hollow because she's fighting for herself this time, not for the men around her (particularly Sora, whom she's been defined in relation to for the past 19 years). The fact that she has a good spar with Master Xehanort but ultimately fails to defeat him without Sora's support adequately sets up the defining tension that she'll have to resolve moving forward; it literally IS her character's whole conflict: defining herself, defending herself, etc. And the epilogue reinforces this trajectory by setting her up to develop her inner (and outer) strength by training with Aqua. Again, follow-through is another matter entirely, and I understand the frustration and skepticism, because yea—Kairi desperately needs a win. We'll just have to keep our fingers crossed.
 

AdrianXXII

Dyslexic rambler
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
2,895
Reaction score
987
Points
115
Awards
15
Location
Switzerland
I'm probably being overly optimistic and will eat these words a few years from now, but I think there is a way to read this as set-up for a proper character arc for Kairi. Of course it's way past due, but better late than never. Up till now, the problems and challenges Kairi faces have always been filtered through her relationship to Sora and/or Riku. Her memory-confrontation with Xehanort is the first time in the entire series that we actually get to experience Kairi's own internal psychological conflicts. I totally get why people are pissed off about Sora saving the day in such nonsensical fashion, but at the same time, I'd probably be even more disappointed if they finally set her up to confront her trauma, then have her immediately succeed on her first go-around. In my opinion, that would be more—not less—shallow, because it would trivialize the intensity of what she's going through.

Of course Nomura could still totally bungle this and fail to carry through on building up Kairi's character once again, but I really do think there is reason to be optimistic. ReMind/MoM literally comprise the opening chapter of the entire Phase 2 saga. This is not the time to resolve long-simmering conflicts; on the contrary, it's the time to set them up, and I think MoM does that very effectively for Kairi. She's dealing with psychological trauma and the ghost/specter/memory of her abuser—a scenario in which her age-old proclamation of "this time, I'll fight" finally doesn't ring hollow because she's fighting for herself this time, not for the men around her (particularly Sora, whom she's been defined in relation to for the past 19 years). The fact that she has a good spar with Master Xehanort but ultimately fails to defeat him without Sora's support adequately sets up the defining tension that she'll have to resolve moving forward; it literally IS her character's whole conflict: defining herself, defending herself, etc. And the epilogue reinforces this trajectory by setting her up to develop her inner (and outer) strength by training with Aqua. Again, follow-through is another matter entirely, and I understand the frustration and skepticism, because yea—Kairi desperately needs a win. We'll just have to keep our fingers crossed.
I think I'd be more on board with this, if this were happening after KH2 and leading into KH3. With Kairi losing to Xehanort and needing Sora to take over here, it means she'll never have the chance to really face off and defeat the guy who's many incarnations derailed her life. MoM actually finally acknowledged that Kairi had personal beef with Xehanort, she isn't likely to have as much of a intertwined history with the Foretellers.

Also I'll continue to hope that this will be where Kairi's arc begins but at the same time it feels like we've been teased with her story beginning for the past 10+ years.
 
Last edited:

Zackarix

Active member
Joined
Jun 12, 2021
Messages
141
Reaction score
102
Points
43
Awards
2
Yes, I understand wanting to be optimistic but Kairi has had "great set-up for an arc in the next game" in every game she's appeared in since KH2. At what point do we stop giving the benefit of the doubt? I'll believe that there are great plans in store for Kairi when the follow-through actually happens instead of getting my hopes up only to be let down again.

The best way I've seen it put was "A better role for Kairi is always coming, but never here."
 

bambii

Active member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
225
Reaction score
217
Points
43
Awards
4
Age
28
Location
NYC
I totally sympathize with where y’all are coming from. Just to clarify my optimism a little more though (cause I’ve been through the same two-decade Kairi tease rollercoaster as you all), Kairi was never actually set up in any meaningful way if we’re honest about it. In KH2 they slapped her with a Keyblade, and the DDD secret movie was effectively the same: “oh you can wield a Keyblade.” Where are the personal stakes? They were hidden in the subtext; that’s it. There’s not a whole lot to do with the character until those stakes are made clear. That pattern persisted with Kairi pretty much consistently until Melody of Memory, irrespective of any ways in which a new “role” may have been teased for her.

My point is, yes it was shitty of the writers to falsely set expectations in the past, but at the same time IMO it was essentially baseless to expect a whole lot more than what we got, because there was never any real evidence that Kairi was being considered as an actual protagonist with inner conflict that the audience should care about. That equation has since changed. (… I think/I hope 😛)

EDIT: For the record, my theory assumes that we’re going to see more of Xehanort, if only as a psychological construct in Kairi’s mind/memories. Which I’m aware is not a popular idea… but that’s another can of worms entirely
 
Last edited:

Meilin

Legendary Role Player of Water
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
4,852
Reaction score
19
Points
40
Awards
44
Age
32
Location
Vegas, baby!
Website
mayrlynray.tumblr.com
I am probably super desperate optimistic with this, but.....

I have two hail-mary hopes for Kairi and I can't think of anything else that would redeem her to me after all these fumbles.
1: Give me Kairi and Aqua training and pursuing their own quest so that Kairi becomes the only formally trained keyblade wielder of the Destiny Trio. Sora and Riku are both self-taught and Riku fell to darkness already. Having Kairi be the more formally trained, but less adaptable character would finally give her a gameplay and thematic hook linked to but separate from the boys (much like how aqua was magical, terra was slow and tanky, and ven was quick like sora in BBB). Give Kairi the ability to use formal keyblade powers like the glider instead of the power of waking the boys have, things like that. And not in the background, in their OWN DAMN ADVENTURE. Then she can bail Riku out in Quadrantum just like Sora saved his sorry bum from DarkAqua in KH3.

2: Tie her backstory in with Skuld/Subject X somehow and give her character depth using that. She has a relationship with Lea based on Xion right now. Wouldn't it be the most NOMURA THING EVER for Isa and Lea to make a connection between her and the girl that is basically set up to the be 3rd in their own Radiant Garden trio? This sets up Isa and Lea to have much deserved and overdue development of their own.

I love bambiis idea of Kairi handling trauma, but I don't think Disney or Nomura is up for writing that kind of story without fucking it up.
 
shape1
shape2
shape3
shape4
shape5
shape6
Top