Michael Jackson

[Magnus]

Apologies if this is not the right sub-forum for this discussion, but I thought it seems like a good fit since it's a rather complicated, controversial and rather heavy subject.

I've always loved his music and felt like he deserved the benefit of the doubt in regards to all those allegations he faced, given his eccentric nature in general. But it turns out that he had a porn stash at his Neverland ranch, including but not limited to naked pictures of children. Some reports also mention pictures of animal sex and torture. So this was discovered back in 2003, but apparently kept a secret until now more or less due to hush money. I'm incredibly sad and disappointed right now. It's going to be very difficult to listen to his music again without thinking about all of this.



Details emerge of 'child pornography found at Michael Jackson's Neverland home' in 2003

 

[Zettaflare]

Oh god, this is so heartbreaking. I loved his music and now to find out he did things like THIS? This is almost worse then the recent reveals of Bill Cosby

 

[Lonbilly]

I know that a lot of people are heartbroken and stuff about this, but like, this was a really big thing in the 2000s and I'm kind of surprised nobody really knows about what happened back then and such.

Anyway, I hella enjoy his music, but there's a reason I never liked him as a person, and it's because nothing was ever disproven in court regarding this. Now we know why.

Feel bad for his victims, as well as his fans.

 

[Magnus]

I'm old enough to remember all of it. That's not the issue. It's that there was never any substantial proof until now. I didn't want to judge him solely based on the fact that he was odd. This information wasn't available back then. All we knew was that people accused him of child molestation and most of it was settled behind closed doors.

 

[Pandymint]

You guys know the kid admitted the accusation was a lie, right? His father put him up to it to get money. Let the man rest in peace.

 

[Lonbilly]

Pandy, you might wanna read the actual article the thread is linked to, instead of just kind of replying.

 

[Audo]

So most of this was actually a hoax/falsified.

Michael Jackson's Estate Blasts New Pornography Reports : People.com

Basically, tabloids took the court documents and spliced in the heavier stuff that is being reported on (graphic explicit child porn, animal abuse, and so on). The true account of what was found back in 2003-2005 has always been known and was public information (mostly "barely legal" het porn, as well as a few collections depicting young boys in little to no clothing but not explicit sexual porn, and which all came from legal sources (such as nudist magazines, art books, and so on) and was not enough to be used as suitable evidence.

nothing was ever disproven in court regarding this.

Well, I mean, he was acquitted of all fourteen charges unanimously?

You guys know the kid admitted the accusation was a lie, right? His father put him up to it to get money.

You also know he's been accused by more than one person, too, right?

The allegations you're referring to were by Jordan Chandler (and his father) in 1993. (And he also never publicly admitted the accusation was false, that was an internet hoax circulated around the time of Jackson's death, though he did refuse to testify in Jackson's criminal trials)

Jackson also had a criminal trial in 2003-2005 which he was acquitted of all charges.

He has also been accused by Jason Francia (who received a settlement), and most recently he's been accused by Wade Robson in May 2013, and James Safechuck in August 2014, who both, as far as I can tell, have ongoing lawsuits against his estate.


Not making a claim either way as to his innocence or guiltiness, just pointing out the facts.

 

[Magnus]

Well, the part about the police having found books with images of naked children and children's heads superimposed on naked adult bodies in suggestive positions is not a hoax. The police mentioned in their report that this is the kind of material that can be used by a paedophile to groom his victims. That part of the story is very real. These books aren't depicting anything that is deemed illegal, but that doesn't make it less questionable for a grown man to keep such books around in a place where he had admitted to bringing children for sleepovers. And from what I recall, he was never proven guilty or innocent because every case was settled out of court. I mean, this could all just be a huge series of coincidences... or there could actually be an indication of what the man was like behind closed doors.

 

[Audo]

Well, the part about the police having found books with images of naked children and children's heads superimposed on naked adult bodies in suggestive positions is not a hoax.

Pretty sure the latter half of that is.

Former Santa Barbara Senior Assistant District Attorney Ron Zonen, who helped prosecute Jackson and recalls viewing the actual documents tied to the case, tells PEOPLE that law enforcement did discover adult pornographic magazines and videos, though nothing constituting child pornography.

"There were all kinds of conventional porn magazines," says Zonen. "Things like Playboy, Penthouse. There was one called Barely Legal. It was a publication that featured young women presumably over the age of 18 but selected because they look much younger."


Law enforcement also discovered a book of "masochistic" type drawings.


When it comes to items relating to children, "There were photos of nude children but they weren't sexually graphic," he says. "They weren't children engaged in sexual activity and there was no child pornography. There were no videos involving children. There were videos that were seized but they were conventional adult sexually graphic material. No children involved."


Specifically, the nude images of children he says, showed children "playing in the stream, climbing trees, nature photographs, nudist colonies, things like that," he said. "They came from professional publications. Were they designed for pedophiles or designed as artistic photographic books I can't comment on that."

Makes no mention of finding such things, nor was it reported on during the trial:

The raids on Neverland produced an accumulation of ten years' worth of heterosexual adult magazines such as Playboy, Penthouse and Hustler along with various heterosexual pornographic videos and websites on his computer. The prosecution alleged these were used for grooming young victims. There were also a few books seized (from a library of thousands) that the prosecution suggested were evidence of homosexuality and/or pedophilia. Boys Will Be Boys included pictures of boys, many naked, in various non-sexual activities such as climbing a tree or sitting on a bench. The book had an inscription reading, "To Michael: From your fan. Love XXXOOO Rhonda – 1983, Chicago." Another book, The Boy: A Photographic Essay, was inscribed, "Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys' faces. This is the spirit of boyhood, a life I never had and will always dream of. This is the life I want for my children. MJ." The book contained pictures of boys in various situations by different photographers, including pictures taken during the filming of the 1963 Lord of the Flies film and showed the boys on the set, usually clothed but sometimes nude, playing in the sand, reading comic books, and having pillow fights. The only book depicting male sex acts was a rare, out-of-print book called A Sexual Study of Man which featured many images of adult men engaged in all kinds of homosexual intercourse. RJackson's multiple residences were searched numerous times by various agencies over a period of days, without any child pornography ever being found. The FBI analyzed sixteen computers and found "nothing notable" contained in their files

And from what I recall, he was never proven guilty or innocent because every case was settled out of court.

As I already mentioned, the big 2003-2005 criminal trial against him (where the raid on Neverland that we are discussing came from) where he faced 14 counts of charges he was unanimously acquitted of. That was not a case of it being settled out of court. It was literally People v. Michael Jackson (as in, it was the government that was charging him and prosecuting him).


Again, not defending him, just sharing what seem to be the facts.