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Jim Hawkins

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So I was playing CoM in 1.5, and I've just finished going through all of the Disney worlds, and I'm really stumped about something: What is the state of Sora & Company's memories when they are going through these worlds?

At some points it seems like they know about the world they're in and the characters that live there. Then other times they don't seem to know anything about the world they are at. Also, what is happening to the real people when Sora is going through these worlds?

When he gets in the pod at the end I know they flat out forget him. But what is happening to, say Aladdin, when Sora is going through the Agrabah level in Castle Oblivion? The game (and the series) constanly remind us that hearts and memories are connected, so SOMETHING must be happening right? Are Aladdin's memories of his KH1 adventure with Sora being replaced with Sora's CoM "fake" adventure with him?
 

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So I was playing CoM in 1.5, and I've just finished going through all of the Disney worlds, and I'm really stumped about something: What is the state of Sora & Company's memories when they are going through these worlds?

At some points it seems like they know about the world they're in and the characters that live there. Then other times they don't seem to know anything about the world they are at. Also, what is happening to the real people when Sora is going through these worlds?

When he gets in the pod at the end I know they flat out forget him. But what is happening to, say Aladdin, when Sora is going through the Agrabah level in Castle Oblivion? The game (and the series) constanly remind us that hearts and memories are connected, so SOMETHING must be happening right? Are Aladdin's memories of his KH1 adventure with Sora being replaced with Sora's CoM "fake" adventure with him?
The implication seems to be the more he goes up the more he forgets. We see a case of this when Goofy tries to remind the others of Hollow Bastion but they can't recall it. Though they do remember that Sora became a Heartless. Sora's first quest was about finding Kairi and Riku, and as a result his memories of those worlds had to be altered or logically his whole heart would probably collapse. If I had to guess, I'd say the point of him going through the Disney worlds again was to make a substitute for the memories of his journey to save Kairi that didn't exist anymore.

The characters, like Aladdin, probably had a haze about the whole thing until it was completely gone from their memories. There's no way to say with 100% certainty.
 

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The implication seems to be the more he goes up the more he forgets.
This^ it's shown throughout the game, especially early on, as Goofy tries to recall Hollow bastion. The higher they go and more they lose and by the time Sora has reached the Destiny Islands card level he can't remember any of his original memories, shown by his having trouble remembering Tiddus, Wakka, and Selphies name and by him not remembering Kairi at all.
 

TheSpaceMAN022

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So I was playing CoM in 1.5, and I've just finished going through all of the Disney worlds, and I'm really stumped about something: What is the state of Sora & Company's memories when they are going through these worlds?

At some points it seems like they know about the world they're in and the characters that live there. Then other times they don't seem to know anything about the world they are at. Also, what is happening to the real people when Sora is going through these worlds?

When he gets in the pod at the end I know they flat out forget him. But what is happening to, say Aladdin, when Sora is going through the Agrabah level in Castle Oblivion? The game (and the series) constanly remind us that hearts and memories are connected, so SOMETHING must be happening right? Are Aladdin's memories of his KH1 adventure with Sora being replaced with Sora's CoM "fake" adventure with him?
Every world Sora visited in castle oblivion came from sora's memories, so they weren't really happening. None of the characters from any of the worlds Sora visited remember what happened because it happened in Sora's head while inside castle oblivion. In other words, sora never really left the castle and so Aladdin's memories of the KH1 events weren't affected. I don't even want to think of how confused Sora would be if he remembered the worlds he visited in castle oblivion.
 

Veritas7340

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The timing is unknown. For all we know, Sora's friends -- Aladdin, Hercules, Leon, etc. -- very well could've had their memories altered exactly when Sora's memories of them were distorted.

What we do know for certain by Leon's comment in KH II and Kairi's interaction with Roxas in KHII is that everyone had forgotten about Sora whilst his memories were recovering.

It was during that time period that the recovery was necessary since Sora had almost completely forgotten everything; he didn't even know who Kairi was at one point.

So, one could assume that if no one knew anything about Sora when the memories had almost entirely faded, then perhaps everyone's memories were undergoing some hazy distrotion while Sora's memories were being altered.

That's one of the great things about this situation though. Although it sucks that there is no real word about this, at the same time it rocks. You are free to have your own interpretation instead of being forced to accept something (like the time travel thing in DDD)
 

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Every world Sora visited in castle oblivion came from sora's memories, so they weren't really happening. None of the characters from any of the worlds Sora visited remember what happened because it happened in Sora's head while inside castle oblivion. In other words, sora never really left the castle and so Aladdin's memories of the KH1 events weren't affected. I don't even want to think of how confused Sora would be if he remembered the worlds he visited in castle oblivion.
Actually, Sora does remember everything about Castle Oblivion in KHIIFM...

Also, Tinny, I really like your idea about Sora revisiting the worlds so his heart wouldn't collapse, but I can't help but feel the real reason was because the developers just had to use the Disney worlds again somehow. LOL.

And wasn't it strongly hinted at that Naminé was making Sora think his memories with Kairi had happened with her instead?

@Jim Hawkins There's probably a chance the characters have some inkling about it, like how Sora might know of Data Sora, the real HPO still recognized Sora (Roxas) subconsciously, and how the fake Aerith in Sora's memories knew what was going on, etc. And I wouldn't be surprised if we're supposed to think so at all, since, as you said, KH is all about connections. But I don't think it's important enough for it to ever really be brought up. Still... I like to believe that Sora's heart "remembered for" the real Restoration Committee and others, too:)
 

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Actually, Sora does remember everything about Castle Oblivion in KHIIFM...

Also, Tinny, I really like your idea about Sora revisiting the worlds so his heart wouldn't collapse, but I can't help but feel the real reason was because the developers just had to use the Disney worlds again somehow. LOL.

And wasn't it strongly hinted at that Naminé was making Sora think his memories with Kairi had happened with her instead?

@Jim Hawkins There's probably a chance the characters have some inkling about it, like how Sora might know of Data Sora, the real HPO still recognized Sora (Roxas) subconsciously, and how the fake Aerith in Sora's memories knew what was going on, etc. And I wouldn't be surprised if we're supposed to think so at all, since, as you said, KH is all about connections. But I don't think it's important enough for it to ever really be brought up. Still... I like to believe that Sora's heart "remembered for" the real Restoration Committee and others, too:)
Exactly how much has never been confirmed, Nomura's only said that if he did it's because of the merge with Roxas. To some extent we only know that he's aware of his promise to Namine. (Though he may very well remember everything)

To me it makes the most sense in helping restructure Sora's heart. The only thing that Sora seems to remember about Namine that even resembles Kairi is that she was a childhood friend and gave him a goodluck charm. All other memories of Kairi are gone or morphed, as Sora doesn't recall having seen her since he was a child on the island.
 

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Every world Sora visited in castle oblivion came from sora's memories, so they weren't really happening. None of the characters from any of the worlds Sora visited remember what happened because it happened in Sora's head while inside castle oblivion. In other words, sora never really left the castle and so Aladdin's memories of the KH1 events weren't affected. I don't even want to think of how confused Sora would be if he remembered the worlds he visited in castle oblivion.
What? Everybody's memories were screwed up by Sora's memories being changed in Castle Oblivion. When Sora forgot, it "unchained" the memories of those he knew. Of course none of them were in the castle and it was all fake, but the effects were very real. As Sora's memories were unchained, the memories were also unchained in the hearts of his friends in their own.

In KH2 it's shown in how nobody on Destiny Island didn't remember Sora, or how Leon said it was when they all began to remember Sora at the same time that he knew something had happened.
 

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So I was playing CoM in 1.5, and I've just finished going through all of the Disney worlds, and I'm really stumped about something: What is the state of Sora & Company's memories when they are going through these worlds?

At some points it seems like they know about the world they're in and the characters that live there. Then other times they don't seem to know anything about the world they are at. Also, what is happening to the real people when Sora is going through these worlds?

When he gets in the pod at the end I know they flat out forget him. But what is happening to, say Aladdin, when Sora is going through the Agrabah level in Castle Oblivion? The game (and the series) constanly remind us that hearts and memories are connected, so SOMETHING must be happening right? Are Aladdin's memories of his KH1 adventure with Sora being replaced with Sora's CoM "fake" adventure with him?
It's heavily implied throughout the story that the higher up they ascend in the castle the more memories they lose but you are right about there being some confusing moments that I myself am not able to make sense of.
I'm going to use the scene where you first enter Twilight Town. Note: I'll be speaking of the scene as it is on the GBA as I have not been able to get passed Vexen on the 10th floor in Re. So I am unsure if there are any significant alternations.
Jiminy points out, as evidence of the ascending theory, that they've lost almost all their memories.
Here's where the confusion is, however. The characters talk about how they find Twilight Town unfamiliar and either Donald or Goofy points out that up until then the places being replicated in the castle are of world they've been to before. Yet in most of said worlds they did not seem to recognize the characters. For example when entering Atlantica they speak about how suspicious Ariel looked with the trident without seeming to know her name and it's clear they did not recognize the trident.
The one exception that I can think of is 100 Acre Wood. Sora and Pooh somehow flow into addressing each other without introduction.

While I am on the subject of this particular scene, Twilight Town itself is a memory I don't understand. Vexen said it's from "the other side of Sora's heart". This sounds as though it refers to Roxas, it was after all Roxas who would have memories of Twilight Town but there hasn't been a Roxas yet has there? Days takes place after CoM?

I've refrained from asking since I'm not finished with CoM and want to keep an open mind to the possibility that it gets explained but wanted to still point out my confusion.
 
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Dandelion

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It's heavily implied throughout the story that the higher up they ascend in the castle the more memories they lose.
For example when entering Twilight Town which is on the 11th floor Jiminy points out that they've lost almost all their memories.
Sora is regaining memories of Namine but while I am still making my way through and thus don't know how it ends, I am getting the feeling those memories are not real.

While I am on the subject, Twilight Town is a memory I don't understand. Vexen says it's from "the other side of Sora's heart". This sounds as though it refers to Roxas, it was after all Roxas who would have memories of Twilight Town but there hasn't been a Roxas yet has there? Days takes place after CoM?

I've refrained from asking since I'm not finished with CoM and want to keep an open mind to the possibility that it gets explained but wanted to still point out my confusion.
Days starts towards the end of Kingdom Hearts I and goes through Chain of Memories up until Kingdom Hearts II. Roxas came into existence towards the end of Kingdom Hearts I.
 

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While I am on the subject, Twilight Town is a memory I don't understand. Vexen says it's from "the other side of Sora's heart". This sounds as though it refers to Roxas, it was after all Roxas who would have memories of Twilight Town but there hasn't been a Roxas yet has there? Days takes place after CoM?
Roxas was created about 24 days before Sora arrived at Castle Oblivion so he had long since been going to Twilight Town. He was also first "created" in Twilight Town.

Days starts immediately after Sora stabs himself in the heart in KH1 and ends right before KH2 starts.
 

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Really? But how could Roxas exist at the same time as Sora?
BTW I've edited my first post while these responses were being made. XD
 

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Really? But how could Roxas exist at the same time as Sora?
BTW I've edited my first post while these responses were being made. XD
When Sora stabs himself with the Heart Unlocker Keyblade in KH1, it split his body/soul and heart apart. The body & soul became Roxas, and Sora's heart is what is wandering around after.

I won't say much more because you should finish CoM and keep going.
 

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When Sora stabs himself with the Heart Unlocker Keyblade in KH1, it split his body/soul and heart apart. The body & soul became Roxas, and Sora's heart is what is wandering around after.

I won't say much more because you should finish CoM and keep going.
So not all of Sora had recovered from being a Shadow Heartless?
Thank you I will refrain from asking anymore.
 

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Excuse me, but...can anyone determine how much of the trio's memories were affected by the castle's magic and how much was twisted by Namine? I know Namine is established to have toyed with Sora's memories at least, but this dichotomy confuses me. Is it entirely possible that the castle is just a fertile ground for memory manifestations via cards rather than some genius loci that erases memories?

Besides, how come the Org. members were not affected by memory changes? Xion was in Days, but you can assume its because of her connections with Sora that she suffered fits upon entering the place (that whole Replica business).

Almost forgot about Riku...he certainly didn't forget anything, did he?
 

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Excuse me, but...can anyone determine how much of the trio's memories were affected by the castle's magic and how much was twisted by Namine? I know Namine is established to have toyed with Sora's memories at least, but this dichotomy confuses me. Is it entirely possible that the castle is just a fertile ground for memory manifestations via cards rather than some genius loci that erases memories?

Besides, how come the Org. members were not affected by memory changes? Xion was in Days, but you can assume its because of her connections with Sora that she suffered fits upon entering the place (that whole Replica business).

Almost forgot about Riku...he certainly didn't forget anything, did he?
Namine manipulated the memories. If you notice, Riku's memories stay perfectly fine as he travels up out of the basement. That is because Namine was only altering Sora's memories.

All of the memory-loss stuff was orchestrated by Marluxia & the Org members and fulfilled by Namine. They would have also been untouched because Namine wasn't altering their memories.

Xion's reaction to CO was because of Sora's memories triggering & because she was created in the castle.

Even so, the cards seem to be a part of the castle because it wasn't just the Org members who could make them but DiZ as well. The memory manipulation, though? No.

So not all of Sora had recovered from being a Shadow Heartless?
Thank you I will refrain from asking anymore.
Yes and no. Sora definitely was "recovered" in that he had his own sense of self back, but he has no "body" as that was now Roxas.
 

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I think they simply forget about Sora as their memories are being messed with. We see this happen with Kairi.

Naminé describes the nature of memories as being a chain, and it can be inferred that these chains connect hearts together; in other words, people's memories of each other keep them together. There was a time when I thought the chain of memories existed solely within one's heart, but I don't believe that's the case. So, because a memory is shared by two (or more) people, tampering with that memory should theoretically affect all parties involved.

On the nature of Castle Oblivion, I feel that the cards may be a self-fulfilling 'map' of sorts, and certainly a product of the Castle itself. The Organization members weren't shown to use cards when moving through the Castle, and the Castle is designed to be labyrinthine and confusing, in order to protect the Chamber of Waking. In Days Axel is tasked with finding the Chamber, but he simply can't despite combing through the whole Castle. However, Sora and Riku never get lost, and I think it's because they used cards, which showed them the way forward to their goal.
 

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I think they simply forget about Sora as their memories are being messed with. We see this happen with Kairi.

Naminé describes the nature of memories as being a chain, and it can be inferred that these chains connect hearts together; in other words, people's memories of each other keep them together. There was a time when I thought the chain of memories existed solely within one's heart, but I don't believe that's the case. So, because a memory is shared by two (or more) people, tampering with that memory should theoretically affect all parties involved.

On the nature of Castle Oblivion, I feel that the cards may be a self-fulfilling 'map' of sorts, and certainly a product of the Castle itself. The Organization members weren't shown to use cards when moving through the Castle, and the Castle is designed to be labyrinthine and confusing, in order to protect the Chamber of Waking. In Days Axel is tasked with finding the Chamber, but he simply can't despite combing through the whole Castle. However, Sora and Riku never get lost, and I think it's because they used cards, which showed them the way forward to their goal.
To be fair, they weren't so much lost as they were going forward to their objectives. The only reason Axel was lost was because he was looking for the Chamber of Waking, the one place that he wasn't meant to find since it was the one place that the castle was meant to protect.
 

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To be fair, they weren't so much lost as they were going forward to their objectives. The only reason Axel was lost was because he was looking for the Chamber of Waking, the one place that he wasn't meant to find since it was the one place that the castle was meant to protect.
This^
Unlike Axel Sora and Riku weren't looking for Ventus nor even know of the chamber to go find it. We know the castle causes one to "be lost in oblivion" but that may only count for those trying to find the castles secrets.
 

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no I don't think so because if it did cause Aladdin to forget kh1 then the memories would effect everyone we met in kh and 358/2days.
 
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