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Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller



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Draxem

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Young Xehanort clearly has some idea about the keyblade, but remarks that he doesn't have Master Xehanort's yet. The fact he identifies Master Xehanort as his own being, as opposed to his older self, is intriguing enough as it is. I've seen a number of theories stating that Xehanort may have been body hopping for centuries hoping to start a new keyblade war, but why would it take him this long and why would he have spent a lifetime as Xehanort researching it? You could put it down to memory loss over time but I call bullshit.

Young Xehanort clearly is not the same as Master Xehanort, now when Dream Drop Distance came out I couldn't help but wonder why he would chose to bring a version of himself that could not already wield, it's a little nonsensical. But then the penny dropped, a "version" of you must be at the destination, by version this puts another limit on time traveling meaning that two of the same person can not be brought to the present. Notice all of the time travellers are different incarnations of Xehanort, all of them defined by something. Ansem is a heartless, Xemnas is a nobody and Master Xehanort is the complete being. So why was this pre-wielding Young Xehanort chosen? Because something happened to him when he acquired his infamous goat keyblade. Notice Master Xehanort's ears in comparison to his younger selves. Young Xehanort is DIFFERENT from Master Xehanort, hence his unusual behavior in the new re:coded cutscene. This is something we have to keep in mind.

Now to the question at hand, if Master Xehanort (or lets say all incarnations of Xehanort seeing as they are obviously connected regardless of difference) was the sixth tomeless foreteller, why would Young Xehanort not know about it? Why would he ever need to spend his entire life seeking knowledge about this war?
If MX & YX were the same sixth tomeless foreteller, why is Young Xehanort different from his older incarnation?

Just wanted to put this up for discussion as I really wasn't buying the idea of him hopping bodies for generations, but I feel that we have enough evidence to suggest Xehanort obtained his keyblade somewhere, he hasn't had it for thousands of years in different vessels.
 

Gram

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Re: Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller.

Personally I think they are the same person in the technical sense. They're regarded as such in the charts of that latest Ultimania. They are the same being of the same body, heart and soul.

BUT! It's obvious something changed when Young Xehanort inherited this "will" tied to Master Xehanort's goat head keyblade. I don't think the ears are a sign of difference though. It's not odd for one to have differing features as the body ages, sags or shrinks.
I think the difference is internal.

We see in the KH3 trailer were Young Xehanort and Eraqus are talking that his interest in the war began then and not long after he becomes an apprentice so whatever changes in him isn't far off from the young version we see walking around.
His change isn't far off in his future.

Him body hopping for generations is something I call bull on as well but that doesn't mean this "will" he currently has hasn't been going around for generations.
Xehanort could just be the latest in a very long line of people sought out by this keyblade or the former owner of it.

Young Xehanort mentions that Xehanort's keyblade is older than any other and that there's a will tied to it. This is what implies a connection to the foretellers or even the 6th one that wasn't a foreteller at all.
Keyblades are clearly sentient to extends but also heavily tied to the heart. It wouldn't be far fetched to think that one of these 6 ancient but albeit original masters knew of ways to carry on their will through the keyblade.

Does this mean I think something is controlling Xehanort as he controls others? No. We can see from his reports and the fact he let some robed stranger (Ansem) lead him off on some crazy adventure that he was always ruled by his curiosity and as we seen in DDD he doesn't care what he does to others.
What I think changed was more of his inhibitions being set free. Any restraints or morals he would've had aren't there anymore.

Whatever he inherited changed him but I don't think it's controlling him. I see it as this will being mutual, Xehanort wishes to indulge in his curiosity of wars and keyblades and doesn't care what he has to do to do so. And in turn this "Will" wishes to see the war brought about.
 

Draxem

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Re: Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller.

Personally I think they are the same person in the technical sense. They're regarded as such in the charts of that latest Ultimania. They are the same being of the same body, heart and soul.

Captain obvious over here :p

BUT! It's obvious something changed when Young Xehanort inherited this "will" tied to Master Xehanort's goat head keyblade. I don't think the ears are a sign of difference though. It's not odd for one to have differing features as the body ages, sags or shrinks.
I think the difference is internal.

The ears weren't really significant but you don't know that for sure. Let me point out Xemnas, Ansem, Terranort, Saix and Xigbar all have pointy ears because of their connection to Xehanort through the fragments of his heart. Young Xehanort is obviously Xehanort but he's not norted as it were. I think it's an important design point to leave him with normal ears to show that he is not the same as his older incarnation

Him body hopping for generations is something I call bull on as well but that doesn't mean this "will" he currently has hasn't been going around for generations.
Xehanort could just be the latest in a very long line of people sought out by this keyblade or the former owner of it.

Young Xehanort mentions that Xehanort's keyblade is older than any other and that there's a will tied to it. This is what implies a connection to the foretellers or even the 6th one that wasn't a foreteller at all.
Keyblades are clearly sentient to extends but also heavily tied to the heart. It wouldn't be far fetched to think that one of these 6 ancient but albeit original masters knew of ways to carry on their will through the keyblade.

Yeah this is all fair play

Does this mean I think something is controlling Xehanort as he controls others? No. We can see from his reports and the fact he let some robed stranger (Ansem) lead him off on some crazy adventure that he was always ruled by his curiosity and as we seen in DDD he doesn't care what he does to others.
What I think changed was more of his inhibitions being set free. Any restraints or morals he would've had aren't there anymore.

Whatever he inherited changed him but I don't think it's controlling him. I see it as this will being mutual, Xehanort wishes to indulge in his curiosity of wars and keyblades and doesn't care what he has to do to do so. And in turn this "Will" wishes to see the war brought about.

I didn't say its controlling him I just said whatever he inherited changed him enough for him to count as another "version" of himself, if that makes sense. The time travel restraints are important in this.
 

Gram

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Re: Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller.

Captain obvious over here :p
Being a smartass is necessary?


The ears weren't really significant but you don't know that for sure. Let me point out Xemnas, Ansem, Terranort, Saix and Xigbar all have pointy ears because of their connection to Xehanort through the fragments of his heart. Young Xehanort is obviously Xehanort but he's not norted as it were. I think it's an important design point to leave him with normal ears to show that he is not the same as his older incarnation
But that lane goes both ways because you don't know for sure either. It's natural the later incarnations would have pointed ears because the heart that possesses them is of the old Xehanort. His appearance is that of pointy ears at that stage of life and it's the Xehanort in that stage of life that's within each of them.
They're not being possessed by round eared YX but by pointy eared, bald and shriveled MX and it's MX's traits they all share.

I didn't say its controlling him I just said whatever he inherited changed him enough for him to count as another "version" of himself, if that makes sense. The time travel restraints are important in this.
I didn't say you was, just addressing that my post didn't mean he was being controlled. It was in reference to my own post not yours.
It does make sense because something did change him. Even though these two are more of the same man than any other Xehanort there's still something dividing them other than the decades of life.
 

Draxem

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Re: Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller.

Being a smartass is necessary?

The :p was meant to come off as a joke but you can take it however you want.

But that lane goes both ways because you don't know for sure either. It's natural the later incarnations would have pointed ears because the heart that possesses them is of the old Xehanort. His appearance is that of pointy ears at that stage of life and it's the Xehanort in that stage of life that's within each of them.
They're not being possessed by round eared YX but by pointy eared, bald and shriveled MX and it's MX's traits they all share.

I know that, I didn't say I'm definitely right about it but neither are you. It's more likely that Young Xehanort was given rounded ears as a subtle hint that he may be Xehanort but he may not be the Xehanort we think we know.
 

Gram

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Re: Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller.

I know that, I didn't say I'm definitely right about it but neither are you. It's more likely that Young Xehanort was given rounded ears as a subtle hint that he may be Xehanort but he may not be the Xehanort we think we know.

I know you wasn't nor that I was either. I just pointed out it could mean either. I do lean toward the latter though since he still possesses the other trait that some vessels have, the eyes, and cause of how he acts and remarks about this "will" in that 2.5 video.
To me the vid is the hint not the physical traits.

We're getting sidetracked from your OP though. I think it's obvious something is different regardless of what signs there are for it.
We've seen several characters get keyblades over the series but they never really changed yet Xehanort's keyblade changed him. In the vid YX didn't particularly look to enthusiastic when describing the will either. Perhaps he knows that what will change him and worse yet he knows it's not from that because he's traveled through time and seen his life as it unfolds.
 

Draxem

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Re: Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller.

I know you wasn't nor that I was either. I just pointed out it could mean either. I do lean toward the latter though since he still possesses the other trait that some vessels have, the eyes, and cause of how he acts and remarks about this "will" in that 2.5 video.
To me the vid is the hint not the physical traits.

We're getting sidetracked from your OP though. I think it's obvious something is different regardless of what signs there are for it.
We've seen several characters get keyblades over the series but they never really changed yet Xehanort's keyblade changed him. In the vid YX didn't particularly look to enthusiastic when describing the will either. Perhaps he knows that what will change him and worse yet he knows it's not from that because he's traveled through time and seen his life as it unfolds.

It's hard to say with how vague the new cutscene is, because part of me feels that he wants the will for himself, but I mean we could all be wrong yet and Young Xehanort might very well just be as much Master Xehanorts pawn as we thought he was in the first place.
 

Gram

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Re: Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller.

It's hard to say with how vague the new cutscene is, because part of me feels that he wants the will for himself, but I mean we could all be wrong yet and Young Xehanort might very well just be as much Master Xehanorts pawn as we thought he was in the first place.

The vagueness truly doesn't help. Even I have a hard time seeing betrayal in it that many see given his compliance in DDD. But one thing the vid does show is that this "will" is important to who Master Xehanort is and that YX has yet to gain it.
I don't think he'd worry about wanting the will for himself now when he knows he'll get it soon regardless. We see him done inquiring about the war and lost masters in the kh3 trailer when talking with a young Eraqus so whatever changes him from the YX in 2.5/DDD isn't far off for him.
 

Draxem

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Re: Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller.

The vagueness truly doesn't help. Even I have a hard time seeing betrayal in it that many see given his compliance in DDD. But one thing the vid does show is that this "will" is important to who Master Xehanort is and that YX has yet to gain it.
I don't think he'd worry about wanting the will for himself now when he knows he'll get it soon regardless. We see him done inquiring about the war and lost masters in the kh3 trailer when talking with a young Eraqus so whatever changes him from the YX in 2.5/DDD isn't far off for him.

Maybe the "will" finds him first and that's what makes him want to become a keyblade master? Who knows
 

Gram

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Re: Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller.

Maybe the "will" finds him first and that's what makes him want to become a keyblade master? Who knows

If it came with the keyblade it's very well possible that's the case. Whether it found him itself or it was given to him it's likely thats what set off his path.
 

Draxem

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Re: Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller.

If it came with the keyblade it's very well possible that's the case. Whether it found him itself or it was given to him it's likely thats what set off his path.

I find it intriguing that even though Young Xehanort will forget his time traveling adventure, his journey begins because the path becomes etched in his heart. Something we have not considered is that Xemnas may have used Namine to bring those memories to the surface.
 

Gram

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Re: Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller.

I find it intriguing that even though Young Xehanort will forget his time traveling adventure, his journey begins because the path becomes etched in his heart. Something we have not considered is that Xemnas may have used Namine to bring those memories to the surface.

Ya never know. MX knew somehow in advance by DDD what to do with Ansem and his time travel. Him being just that damn good at foresight is just to unlikely to me. It's possible that by DDD the memories resurfaced. The memories are repressed in the past but he could recall them by the present since it'd no longer be info that could alter things.
 

Draxem

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Re: Master Xehanort is not the sixth tomeless foreteller.

Actually if he had Young Xehanorts time displaced memories he would know everything up until YX gets kicked back to the past (cause Xehanort obviously isn't going to win in KH3), so he would already know everything occuring up to at least the showdown between the 13 darknesses. However Young Xehanort has already stated that Xehanort only foresaw up to the gathering at the ending of Dream Drop Distance so I have just answered my own question. They didn't use Namine for that haha.
 

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I concur with the idea that *something* could be inside Master Xehanort and that something could be imparting MX knowledge of the Keyblade War and everything else. That something could very well be the Keyblade's will, even the Guardian could be the Keyblade's Will manifested.
But Xehanort must have gathered his knowledge from SOMEWHERE. When he mentioned the topic of the forgotten masters to Eraqus, Eraqus knew what he was talking about. It's possible that Eraqus was the one that was willing to carry on the traditions of the Keyblade Masters and stay in the Land of Departure, while Xehanort wasn't given the benefit of knowing the information Eraqus was given.
So that begs the question: from WHERE did Xehanort acquire so much information? As stated: possibly from the Sixth Apprentice.
 

Gram

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If Xehanort has inherited a will tied to a keyblade dating to the keyblade war I think it's safe to assume that would be his source of information.
 
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