Main Roleplay: Kingdom Hearts Eclipse - Interest Check

[Meilin]

That is what I am aiming for, but whether or not this project will succeed hinges on the community participating in it, and—well, let's just say all of our previous attempts to bring together the entire community outside of their little groups has been less than successful.

I dunno how many people besides me and Takushi Rena remember this far back, but part of what made the Omniverse RPs successful over the course of a few good years was that it allowed members of different fandoms and different skill levels to play on an even field, by combining many, many different RPs and canons into a competent 'verse. Everything from Morpheus' and ZtMs own well developed worlds to my back then obsession over Naruto and Yu Yu Hakusho to new ideas based on old myths were easily and seamlessly integrated as parts of an overarching series of RPs. Having lots of canon to draw from (as opposed to just Disney/KH) was part of what made it easy for newbie rpers to create a character they related to without becoming cookie cutter. Being able to pick and choose storylines from many different canons helped make even newbie characters unique, so you didn't have, say, 5 characters who were specialists with fire and ALL FOUGHT the exact same manner.

Kingdom Hearts though, in its basic, most simple premise, is a story of heros traveling to worlds, making it a fairly easy canon to incorporate other canons. There's certainly enough fanfiction about Sora/Riku/Whatever traveling to the worlds or an anime, or a book, or even a non-disney movie series. Not saying it would work for your RP, just pointing out what I've always thought.

Ultimately the reason why the Omniverse failed wasn't any fault of its own, but because ZtM/LoC as he was then known was slowly retiring from KHI, and I think he kinda took it with him when he left. I know a lot of us didn't have enough of a grasp on the nuances of the most important characters (Like him, Valyon Lightstar) and the timeline to RP it without him. I understand he came back some after I left, though; and I dunno if he did anything more with it at that point. So your idea of having multiple managers is a very, very good one. A suggestion would be to try and recruit members of each clique as managers. I know there were cliques in the old days too, but there were also several RPers that jumped all over and were well respected. Encouraging those players today as managers would help encourage multiple threads to come together for large events.

I'm looking forwards to seeing if you can do something similar, so I leave these memories here as something for you to think on and maybe improve on both your current formula and the multiverse itself. It'd be enjoyable for me to break out some of my more detailed character sheets from the good 'ol days.

 

[OmniChaos]

So, to revive discussion on this, what are people's thoughts on the stat system? Would anyone be less inclined to join if that stat system was present?

 

[Chromatic]

So how exactly will stats factor into everything?

 

[OmniChaos]

In theory, they would be able to compare character A to character B, to help people gauge the power difference, and also help keep track of growth rates.

Also, whoever just voted "no," at least have the balls to explain yourself like I asked in the first place.

 

[Chromatic]

So by that system, is the higher stat inherently superior to a lower stat that it's pitted against? For example, an Attack stat of 8 would automatically defeat a defensive stat of 7? Or will the RP function on the basis of something akin to a dice roll system?

 

[OmniChaos]

It depends on how heavily the community wants the roleplay to be depended on the stat system. Personally, I feel the stats shouldn't be anything more than a general guideline, so as to gauge their general powers and skills against each other, and to track character growth. Anything to the point where person A's defensive stat is X points higher than person B's attack stat or depends on a dice roll I feel to be too intrusive, and I think it would interfere with the integrity of the roleplay.

 

[Chromatic]

Then rather than stats, why not adopt something akin the power scale as depicted in the Character Reference?

 

[OmniChaos]

Because, for a start, the power scale is flawed, Lord of Chaos said that much himself. Plus, the scale is limited in several ways. For example: If a character grows two levels, you can see that growth and exactly what skill grew, as opposed to the power scale, where no visible growth could be seen.

 

[Ordeith]

Above all, basic stats would be useful in preventing any instances of god-modding. I, for one, get irked when roleplayers write their characters out of all probable danger.

A stat system would force us all to address problems, and accept "losses."
Fluke moments of luck should be allowed, of course, but they need to become the exception.

 

[Chromatic]

It seems like in any instance, there would have to be some random chance involved though. Pretty much every stat system I've seen ends up falling back on either a roll of dice or some other random chance. If it just plays out as larger number>smaller number, smaller number loses, then I don't really see how we're left with anything any different from the way things are usually done around here. I mean, what is the potential for the stat of 7 to stand up the stat of 8?

EDIT: To be honest, LoC's power classification is a lot better, especially in terms of wording, than most that I've seen.

 

[Argenteus]

A numerical stat system can become to firm, too inflexible. Things should remain open to interpretation, and perhaps conflicts could be judged by a mediator, probably another RPer. The mediator would judge the strategy used by each party in each post, and determine what works and what doesn't: Your kick misses, but you're sword hit lands. This would largely be based on common sense, but where it could go either way random number generation could help.

To help evaluate strength, magical power, and the like we could use a less firm ranking system: It would rank the following 'stats':

Dash - Determines dodging, acrobatics and movement speed
Force - Determines physical strength, endurance and martial training
Mind - Determines strategic thinking, logic and intuition.
Aura - Determines magical prowess of all kinds, perception and magical resistance

But they would NOT be ranked with numbers. Instead, they would be ranked with words. Each player gets two "Good"s a "Poor" and a "Medium". And example stat set would be:

Dash: Poor
Force: Good
Mind: Medium
Aura: Good.

These 'stats' can change only once in proportion to eachother, but it's presumed all of them grow over time, they just keep their proportion to eachother. Once per RP (Or more, with permission from an RP manager) they can alter their proportions.

This - when compared to a numerical system - ensures RPing never becomes a numbers game, and the presence of the mediator should help lessen conflict between players and make strategy the king over power.

Any thoughts on my system?

 

[Professor Ven]

A numerical stat system can become to firm, too inflexible. Things should remain open to interpretation, and perhaps conflicts could be judged by a mediator, probably another RPer. The mediator would judge the strategy used by each party in each post, and determine what works and what doesn't: Your kick misses, but you're sword hit lands. This would largely be based on common sense, but where it could go either way random number generation could help.

To help evaluate strength, magical power, and the like we could use a less firm ranking system: It would rank the following 'stats':

Dash - Determines dodging, acrobatics and movement speed
Force - Determines physical strength, endurance and martial training
Mind - Determines strategic thinking, logic and intuition.
Aura - Determines magical prowess of all kinds, perception and magical resistance

But they would NOT be ranked with numbers. Instead, they would be ranked with words. Each player gets two "Good"s a "Poor" and a "Medium". And example stat set would be:

Dash: Poor
Force: Good
Mind: Medium
Aura: Good.

These 'stats' can change only once in proportion to eachother, but it's presumed all of them grow over time, they just keep their proportion to eachother. Once per RP (Or more, with permission from an RP manager) they can alter their proportions.

This - when compared to a numerical system - ensures RPing never becomes a numbers game, and the presence of the mediator should help lessen conflict between players and make strategy the king over power.

Any thoughts on my system?

Your system seems much more confusing and requiring more of the people using it to research it more than would be necessary, IMO.

Above all, basic stats would be useful in preventing any instances of god-modding. I, for one, get irked when roleplayers write their characters out of all probable danger.

A stat system would force us all to address problems, and accept "losses."
Fluke moments of luck should be allowed, of course, but they need to become the exception.

This is precisely why I desire a stat-based system, in the very least, for people to be able to compare and make better judgements based on cold hard numbers, instead of English (or the gross lack thereof).

 

[Argenteus]

Cold hard numbers is too limiting, I say. One with great intelligence but slightly poorer stats could still beat out a slightly stronger character in reality. We want strategy to be the focus of the conflicts, how you use your character.

 

[Orion]

Whatever system might be used, it needs to be one where the regular consultation and comparison of stats can be kept to a minimum, to mitigate any halting effect it has on the flow of writing. Ideally, it should only be actively made use of in situations where an outcome is not clear: A dweeb wrestling a weightlifter need not compare stats, but if it's a lithe, nimble boxer versus a hulking wrestler that's a different story. Similar for intimidation and the like.

 

[Argenteus]

You see, that's my point. In my system, stats would only be used when the outcome of an effort is not clear - all else would be the judgement of the mediator.

Furthermore, a number based system has more potential for poorly created characters. My simple system means any combination of the two goods a medium and a bad is effective. Want to be a character with good mind and dash stats, medium magic and poor force? This will be your trickster or thief character, who relies on guile and quickness to conquer the day, and maybe an occasional illusion. Force and Magic as the strongest, with a medium mind and poor dash? This is the equivalent of the D&D swordmage class (Sorta), using both physical might and magic. I'll bet you can't think of one combination that's absolutely terrible.

 

[Professor Ven]

You see, that's my point. In my system, stats would only be used when the outcome of an effort is not clear - all else would be the judgement of the mediator.

Furthermore, a number based system has more potential for poorly created characters. My simple system means any combination of the two goods a medium and a bad is effective. Want to be a character with good mind and dash stats, medium magic and poor force? This will be your trickster or thief character, who relies on guile and quickness to conquer the day, and maybe an occasional illusion. Force and Magic as the strongest, with a medium mind and poor dash? This is the equivalent of the D&D swordmage class (Sorta), using both physical might and magic. I'll bet you can't think of one combination that's absolutely terrible.

Bolded statement is the entire point of the attempt in implementing a system at all.


And your argument of "poorly created characters" is more or less invalid. A stat-based system can't make happen what already happens now.

The following stats have been proposed, and I bring it for your consideration:

- Strength
- Magic
- Defense
- Agility
- Intelligence
- Charisma

This is fairly straightforward layout. It goes over most, if not all the major stuff, etc, and most people would at the most be able to recognize and deduce what stands for what. Implementing points in the system would spare any possible bias or arguments to occur, generally speaking, should problems arise.

The above system started out as the base D&D 3.5 stat model, and was reconfigured. The general idea behind the stat-based system was/is to keep characters in check in various circumstances between character vs character/character vs environment.

Will this affect the average RP in a terrible way?

I'd like to assume it won't, and instead just perform in its aforementioned purpose.

 

[Rolands]

The following stats have been proposed, and I bring it for your consideration:

- Strength
- Magic
- Defense
- Agility
- Intelligence
- Charisma

Hello. New here. might be interested, might not. In any case, might I make a suggestion?
Strength, magic, defense and agility are all very good stats to have for deciding how events play out. I do think RPs are often better when there's an overall moderation of what characters can and can't do.

But stats for intelligence and charisma? I don't think those statistics are nearly as merited, for two reasons. Firstly, they both largely come down to writing ability. What is the point of a high charisma score if the character emotes as well as a brick? I would think that writers would know fairly well how persuasive and intelligent their characters are, and even if they attempt to overdo it, their overall writing level is a threshold the cannot surpass. Secondly, it would be sort of awkward to regulate. They're subjective traits, so gauging a speech or a plan and deciding that it ranks at such and such a level is problematic. Additionally, one would need be quite out of line to go to the trouble of a rewrite, I think. It's vague territory, so one could probably get away with quite a lot before they appear to blatantly overdo it.

And on a slightly tangent note, I was wondering about character balance: or rather excess thereof. It's just a cursory browse, but some characters in the last RP seemed very clearly superior to others. with this system of alloting points to stats, would it not make the characters basically on the same level? Playing a weakling or a powerhouse could not be done, as surplus or difficiency would be compensated in other areas, no?

Regardless, I vote yay. It looks like an exceptionally well thought out rp, and few things are sadder than wasted potential.

 

[OmniChaos]

But stats for intelligence and charisma? I don't think those statistics are nearly as merited, for two reasons. Firstly, they both largely come down to writing ability. What is the point of a high charisma score if the character emotes as well as a brick? I would think that writers would know fairly well how persuasive and intelligent their characters are, and even if they attempt to overdo it, their overall writing level is a threshold the cannot surpass. Secondly, it would be sort of awkward to regulate. They're subjective traits, so gauging a speech or a plan and deciding that it ranks at such and such a level is problematic. Additionally, one would need be quite out of line to go to the trouble of a rewrite, I think. It's vague territory, so one could probably get away with quite a lot before they appear to blatantly overdo it.

Well, really, it all depends on one's writing ability, even at the opposite end of the spectrum where we have characters as smart as a bag of rocks or who are as charismatic as a boar. Ultimately, it's up to the roleplayer to gauge their character and their talents and operate within the range thereof. Furthermore, monitoring the growth of these stats can show one the birth of a general or of a great leader, so to speak.

And on a slightly tangent note, I was wondering about character balance: or rather excess thereof. It's just a cursory browse, but some characters in the last RP seemed very clearly superior to others. with this system of alloting points to stats, would it not make the characters basically on the same level? Playing a weakling or a powerhouse could not be done, as surplus or difficiency would be compensated in other areas, no?

That is one of my concerns as well, causing me to lean more toward Argenteus's suggestion of skill rates rather than a set point-based system; that or forego the stat system altogether (only an opinion, not a suggestion).

My only guess is that, on a point-based system, certain characters (i.e., the Eclipse King, Marshals, and "leader" characters) would simply be started at a higher level with their stats raised respectively.

 

[Professor Ven]

Essentially, from a Points Based System, you'd be looking at general happenings as in the D&D 3.5 system, more or less. Protagonists would start out at whatever base "level," each with differing strengths and weaknesses, with the various villains and etc at higher levels. Naturally, as the RP would progress, the protagonists would grow in power (doo de doo) eventually coming to match or possibly overpower any of the villains. TL;DR as Omnoms mentioned in the post above me

Even with a Points Based System, or any system at all, the RPer's writing should not be affected. The character they want to create should not be affected - I will literally sloth naysayers to death.

The first object of a PBS or system is to be a buffer on any sort of silly godmodding or inherent bullshit that can, may, or does occur - along with giving any possibly underpowered characters (as this, while a silly notion, could be possible) a a good foundation to start off and build off of.

 

[Argenteus]

Ven, I'm not against a point-based system, but what's your problem with my system? The way I see it, it offers the best of both worlds.