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Ballad of Caius

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From what I could gather from the timeline explanation is that it's still possible that Sora could very well be a vessel...? But wasn't that seed rid off?
 

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From what I could gather from the timeline explanation is that it's still possible that Sora could very well be a vessel...? But wasn't that seed rid off?
That doesn't make sense... the seed wasn't just "rid of," it was never even planted in the first place because Lea blew it up before it could get to Sora. The only events that were guaranteed to happen were the ones that led up to that exact moment where Sora could've been Norted. Beyond that, it's like how Geezernort himself described it: "it is the future that lies beyond [his] sight." If Geezernort doesn't know, there's no way Trollanort (who's actually being kept in the dark about his older self's master plans) would know either.

Trollanort might show up to the X-Blade forging party eventually, but that event has yet to happen. Once he witnesses it, he'll eventually have to return to his starting point in Destiny Islands, which will erase all memories of time traveling experiences. He can't just jump back into the events of DDD whenever he wants.

I'm pretty sure all that talk that made Trollanort seem certain that Sora was gonna be a vessel was more "it's going to happen because this plan is going off without a hitch" rather than "I already know what's going to happen because time travel." I mean, if Lea hadn't dropped in at the last second, that's exactly how it would've gone.
 
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Sora definitely didn't get xehanorts heart in 3d...but he may still be a vessel, or at least a form of him is.

The thing is this--young xehanort explains that he can travel in time to any point where a -version of him- exists. No matter when in his timeline Sora (or a version of him, like roxas or xion) becomes a vessel, he would still count as a version of xehanort for his whole timeline. And it's basically impossible that the xehanorts could have failed to notice that they were unable to time piggyback off of Sora like they could if he was a fated vessel, if their whole plan requires him to be one.

Basically, even if he hasn't observed the actual implantation, the xehanorts have a proof positive way to test whether Sora or at least one of his clones will be in their number. The only way Sora, roxas, or xion dont end up a vessel is if Nomura failed to recognize a pretty basic consequence of his setting, and yeah, he's made some retcons out of nowhere before, but one on this scale would be damn embarassing and make his "super scary master tactician villain" look like a damn preschooler.

Personally, my money is on xion, so that days will have an ounce of worth to the franchise. Or, Sora bring Sora, he gets part of xehanorts heart but manages to befriend it and bring it to light, similar to what riku is trying.
 
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Sora definitely didn't get xehanorts heart in 3d...but he may still be a vessel, or at least a form of him is.

The thing is this--young xehanort explains that he can travel in time to any point where a -version of him- exists. No matter when in his timeline Sora (or a version of him, like roxas or xion) becomes a vessel, he would still count as a version of xehanort for his whole timeline. And it's basically impossible that the xehanorts could have failed to notice that they were unable to time piggyback off of Sora like they could if he was a fated vessel, if their whole plan requires him to be one.

Basically, even if he hasn't observed the actual implantation, the xehanorts have a proof positive way to test whether Sora or at least one of his clones will be in their number. The only way Sora, roxas, or xion dont end up a vessel is if Nomura failed to recognize a pretty basic consequence of his setting, and yeah, he's made some retcons out of nowhere before, but one on this scale would be damn embarassing and make his "super scary master tactician villain" look like a damn preschooler.

Personally, my money is on xion, so that days will have an ounce of worth to the franchise.
Except only the seeded Sora would count as a "version of Xehanort." Even if Xehanort inserts a piece of his own Heart into Sora, Xehanort couldn't time travel Sora from parts of Sora's timeline where he doesn't contain a piece of Xehanort's Heart. Because Sora isn't a version of Xehanort in those parts.
 

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Except only the seeded Sora would count as a "version of Xehanort." Even if Xehanort inserts a piece of his own Heart into Sora, Xehanort couldn't time travel Sora from parts of Sora's timeline where he doesn't contain a piece of Xehanort's Heart. Because Sora isn't a version of Xehanort in those parts.
I wouldn't be too sure of that-he is able to go pick up the revived Isa and braig, and he calls master xehanort his -most- future self. Meaning that, at that point, anyone who's gonna be added to his accessible time streams has been, or MX wouldnt be the "most" future self, he'd just be "a" future self.
 

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That's true. I've looked at some up-close pictures of both Y. Xeha's Keyblade and the Goatblade before, and it's pretty obvious that the creature on both weapons has the head of a big cat. What's odd is the fact that these lions have freakin' huge goat horns, and the fact that the Goatblade has been confirmed to be currently wielded by Luxu. From what I've read, the animal symbolism for the 7 deadly sins is all over the place, but a fairly consistent one is that the lion is supposed to represent pride, while Lust is always represented by something else. So what's the animal of pride doing with goat horns and in the hands of the guy named after the sin of lust?
The Goat is one of the animals that can represent Lust, so a Lion with Goat-horns could possibly describe a fusion/combination of the sins of Pride (Lion) and Lust (Goat).
If the 7th sin of Pride is really associated with the Master of Masters as some theorize and Luxu apparently being the "prize pupil" and the one to "inherit the secret" (whatever it is) may point towards either a) the whole possession shtick which can go both ways, b) Luxu somehow inheriting MoM's powers and incorporating them into the Keyblade or c) the "Goatblade" is actually a fusion of two different Keyblades, one with a sole Goat motiv and one with a Lion motiv. This last one could also explain why the "Goatblade" has two of the blue "evil eyes" while the other Foreteller Keyblades have only one each.

That doesn't make sense... the seed wasn't just "rid of," it was never even planted in the first place because Lea blew it up before it could get to Sora. The only events that were guaranteed to happen were the ones that led up to that exact moment where Sora could've been Norted. Beyond that, it's like how Geezernort himself described it: "it is the future that lies beyond [his] sight." If Geezernort doesn't know, there's no way Trollanort (who's actually being kept in the dark about his older self's master plans) would know either.

Trollanort might show up to the X-Blade forging party eventually, but that event has yet to happen. Once he witnesses it, he'll eventually have to return to his starting point in Destiny Islands, which will erase all memories of time traveling experiences. He can't just jump back into the events of DDD whenever he wants.

I'm pretty sure all that talk that made Trollanort seem certain that Sora was gonna be a vessel was more "it's going to happen because this plan is going off without a hitch" rather than "I already know what's going to happen because time travel." I mean, if Lea hadn't dropped in at the last second, that's exactly how it would've gone.
Exactly, both Master Xehanort and Young Xehanort himself even point out that they can't be certain of what happens after the point in which they placed comatose Sora in that throne.
Young Xehanort said:
I have now told you all that I know. We are all here, and what the future holds in store is beyond my sight.
Trollanort doesn't know that Sora will definitely a new vessel for him and be on "his side" in the future as he himself clearly states above that he does not know anything further than the current point.
So being awfully certain or not, he is just assuming, not knowing.

It is practically a given that Trollanort will be present for the fated clash, regardless if it results in the forging of an doom stabber or not, as he sits on throne No. 12 in the new Organisation.

Exactly, YX is certain about things not because he knows, but because he is confident on the success of the norts and until Lea's little surprise firecracker entry the plan was going smoothly as even Riku's and Mickey's intervention was dealt with.
Ansem SoD and Xemnas clearly were surprised at Lea showing up and Braig/Xigbar was visibly upset/agitated. Overnort himself only grinned, but that does not mean he knew it would happen as he also said beforehand:
Master Overnort said:
My twelve selves would welcome me here on this day, when I would return a complete person. It is the future which lies beyond my sight.
That grin could thus also come from the realization that he has exactly the right counter against Lea at hand and of course MX sics puppet-Isa/Saix on him.

I wouldn't be too sure of that-he is able to go pick up the revived Isa and braig, and he calls master xehanort his -most- future self. Meaning that, at that point, anyone who's gonna be added to his accessible time streams has been, or MX wouldnt be the "most" future self, he'd just be "a" future self.
Braig and Isa ARE seeded and that's why he can pick them up, so what Fudge pointed out still applies.
Sora is not seeded and was never seeded during his lifetime so far, so he's not a vessel nor can Trollanort collect him.
Riku was the only one of the proposed seven Guardians (minus Terra who had the whole package) seeded for a time , but that seed got finally shafted at the end of KH 2 and beyond a short time in KH 1 also never gained control over him.
 

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Let's just get to the point, the Foretellers screwed up beyond belief, Luxu is probably evil, the MoM is probably the mastermind. The Daybreak Trio are made to represent the three realms. And everyone is connected to

*Looks up into the sky* ​Sora...
 
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So something about Chi has been kind of bugging me lately. Ava tests the strength of heart of the Player, and determines that he/she won't succumb to the darkness, but she never does the same thing for Skuld. Instead, the moment that Skuld says that she wants to join the Dandelions, Ava just lets her?

Now, I love Skuld and am pretty sure that she's good. But IDK. The fact that we don't know for sure how resistant she is to the darkness could become a problem for the Dandelions, right? She could become possessed by someone evil, or become overcome by the darkness herself.

I know in the most recent update Gula keeps saying that Skuld's "just like Ava", but he doesn't really have any proof, does he? And intentions and an ability to be able to carry out said intentions is a different thing entirely.

Unless Ava's lying and telling Skuld (and Player) that Ephemera was a spy (and the traitor) and that she killed him counts? Since Skuld didn't end up losing it over that, and instead remained in control of herself and heart? IDK.
 

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So something about Chi has been kind of bugging me lately. Ava tests the strength of heart of the Player, and determines that he/she won't succumb to the darkness, but she never does the same thing for Skuld. Instead, the moment that Skuld says that she wants to join the Dandelions, Ava just lets her?

Now, I love Skuld and am pretty sure that she's good. But IDK. The fact that we don't know for sure how resistant she is to the darkness could become a problem for the Dandelions, right? She could become possessed by someone evil, or become overcome by the darkness herself.

I know in the most recent update Gula keeps saying that Skuld's "just like Ava", but he doesn't really have any proof, does he? And intentions and an ability to be able to carry out said intentions is a different thing entirely.

Unless Ava's lying and telling Skuld (and Player) that Ephemera was a spy (and the traitor) and that she killed him counts? Since Skuld didn't end up losing it over that, and instead remained in control of herself and heart? IDK.
Skuld is heavily connected to Sora, same applies with Ephemera (And perhaps the player) So normally the plot needs them alive and to have a strong heart. And Gula just remarks it, he doesn't need proof. If anything would drive Skuld or Ephemera to a breaking point it would be them finding out the Player is deceased, but that isn't likely as the Player is needed to advance the plot. But let's talk about fighting styles, Skuld fights similar to Riku, Ephemera fights similar to Sora, and the Player fights like Roxas. And Skuld is obviously weaker than the Player when it comes to fighting with the keyblade. Also as we've seen Skuld and Ephemera are pretty nice people, Ephemera is much to innocent to be a traitor also.
 

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Skuld is heavily connected to Sora, same applies with Ephemera (And perhaps the player) So normally the plot needs them alive and to have a strong heart. And Gula just remarks it, he doesn't need proof. If anything would drive Skuld or Ephemera to a breaking point it would be them finding out the Player is deceased, but that isn't likely as the Player is needed to advance the plot. But let's talk about fighting styles, Skuld fights similar to Riku, Ephemera fights similar to Sora, and the Player fights like Roxas. And Skuld is obviously weaker than the Player when it comes to fighting with the keyblade. Also as we've seen Skuld and Ephemera are pretty nice people, Ephemera is much to innocent to be a traitor also.
Where are you getting this? The only unique pose has Skuld has in her fighting is this:
It doesn't resemble Riku's stance at all, and her attacks are attacks that the player also has access to with certain cards.
Ephemera can also be seen using the Ragnarok attack, but the player has access to it (and the attack Ephemera uses on the Invisible when you first meet him) as well.
 

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Exactly, Xehanort's old body would be free for Luxu to control, much like Sora's original body was controlled by Roxas for a year due to to Sora strictly "not needing it" thanks to Kairi's powers (him and Roxas merging was something that only became a necessity due to the memory mess created in CoM and Xion's powers worsening that mess).
Well, Nomura did speak about a fixed sentiment that remained after MX extracted his own heart (before he used it as a bullet to shoot at Terra) and he stressed it was not a Heartless.
Normally bodies vanish when the heart leaves it, Kairi and Ventus being the only shown exceptions so far, but that doesn't mean the body is completely gone and therefore Luxu could have taken control of it elsewhere.

It is even possible that Luxu in MX's old body is actually the nort that is active in the Realm of Darkness, possibly overseeing the task to mash all those hearts of destroyed worlds together in that KH Ansem SoD build throughout the months before KH 1.
Who knows, maybe this will be Aqua's final boss in 0.2? ;P
Her defeating this "nort" actually freeing the body to instigate the recompletion of MX proper during DDD.

---

Exactly, there is a logical error in the prospect as the CoA is a more recent development and we know that while Xehanort/Xemnas knew about its existence (and modeled the Chamber of Repose in Radiant Garden after it as well) he did not know how to find nor how to access it.
But Roxas used Ventus his body because of Kari's powers... I think I'm missing something here.
And the other PoH's. Their bodies didn't dissapear either, even after their hearts had left their bodies.

So your saying that Luxu took MX his body, and then went somewhere else and did not accompany Xehanort. Okay, but that would mean there are now 2 old man Xehanorts. 1 where Luxu controls the old body, and 1 that was created after Xenmas and Ansem where defeated.
But I don't think Luxu took Xehanorts body. One of the reasons he took Terra's body was because his body was "old" and "brittle" and that he need a younger and stronger one, so he could see what happend after the Keyblade War.Luxu his job is to watch, and I don't think watching in a old an brittle body that probaly wouldn't survive a Keyblade War is a good idea.

One other thing concerns me about that scene, Xehanort says "At last, our moment is here.". I always assumed he was talking to Terra, but what if he is indeed talking to Luxu, who is nearby, or maybe even in the Keyblade (as others suggested)?

All this talk together with that PoH talk brought me to another question. In KH 1 Sora releases all the hearts with the Keyblade of Heart. That's what makes that keyblade special, yet Xehanort released his own heart with the Goat Keyblade. What's up with that?
It's not a goat, it's a horned lion, according to the design notes. When you see the Ultimania sketches, it becomes more clear it is a gaunt leonid face, not a hircoid face.
So I've heard alot about those Ultimania, where do you guys read it? Coz I can't seem to find it anywhere...
Sora definitely didn't get xehanorts heart in 3d...but he may still be a vessel, or at least a form of him is.

The thing is this--young xehanort explains that he can travel in time to any point where a -version of him- exists. No matter when in his timeline Sora (or a version of him, like roxas or xion) becomes a vessel, he would still count as a version of xehanort for his whole timeline. And it's basically impossible that the xehanorts could have failed to notice that they were unable to time piggyback off of Sora like they could if he was a fated vessel, if their whole plan requires him to be one.

Basically, even if he hasn't observed the actual implantation, the xehanorts have a proof positive way to test whether Sora or at least one of his clones will be in their number. The only way Sora, roxas, or xion dont end up a vessel is if Nomura failed to recognize a pretty basic consequence of his setting, and yeah, he's made some retcons out of nowhere before, but one on this scale would be damn embarassing and make his "super scary master tactician villain" look like a damn preschooler.

Personally, my money is on xion, so that days will have an ounce of worth to the franchise. Or, Sora bring Sora, he gets part of xehanorts heart but manages to befriend it and bring it to light, similar to what riku is trying.
What prevents Org XIII of trying again? Next time Sora is unconscious they can just try again right?

Yes, why did Young Xehanort move in Mickeys Stopza?

Well, they do talk about Roxas being a worthy vessel. But he also says he can't be a vessel because he returned to Sora. And Xion returned to Sora too, so I don't think those 2 can become vessels. Otherwise they would have done it already.
Let's just get to the point, the Foretellers screwed up beyond belief, Luxu is probably evil, the MoM is probably the mastermind. The Daybreak Trio are made to represent the three realms. And everyone is connected to

*Looks up into the sky* ​Sora...
But... but that's not possible. There are 4 realms. So the Daybreak Trio can't represent 3 realms. There is the Realm of Light, Realm of Darkness, Realm In Between and with DDD, the Realm of Sleep. (there is also the Realm of Nothingness, but that's just another name for the Realm of Darkness).
 

Ballad of Caius

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YoungNort managed to move during Mickey's Stopza because of time traveling shenanigans (Master Xehanort possessing his younger body caused that).
 

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YoungNort managed to move during Mickey's Stopza because of time traveling shenanigans (Master Xehanort possessing his younger body caused that).
... This time travel business gets more complicated every day...

So the requirment to be unaffected by time magic is to be possessed by a (older) version of yourself (through time travel stuff)? But, shouldn't that apply to Xenmas and Ansem too then?
 

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Skuld is heavily connected to Sora, same applies with Ephemera (And perhaps the player) So normally the plot needs them alive and to have a strong heart. And Gula just remarks it, he doesn't need proof. If anything would drive Skuld or Ephemera to a breaking point it would be them finding out the Player is deceased, but that isn't likely as the Player is needed to advance the plot. But let's talk about fighting styles, Skuld fights similar to Riku, Ephemera fights similar to Sora, and the Player fights like Roxas. And Skuld is obviously weaker than the Player when it comes to fighting with the keyblade. Also as we've seen Skuld and Ephemera are pretty nice people, Ephemera is much to innocent to be a traitor also.
I don't know from where you get all this as there is nowhere anything implying what you say here.
So far no one in X[chi] is implied or hinted at to be connected to any already established character at all. The only definitive link the X[chi] cast so far has to the current generation of wielders is the black Keyblade summoned by Luxu in the newest update which in the current era is wielded by Master Xehanort.
You're also giving way too much importance on the "Player" character which isn't even a true character at all but just a Player avatar for x[chi]/Unchained players. He/She doesn't even have a canon name or appearance.

But Roxas used Ventus his body because of Kari's powers... I think I'm missing something here.
And the other PoH's. Their bodies didn't dissapear either, even after their hearts had left their bodies.
You're not missing anything but simply got a fact wrong. ;)
From where do you get that Roxas actually used Ventus' body??? That does not make one ounce of sense.

How could Roxas use Ventus' body when a) Roxas has absolutely no connection to Ventus at all beyond carrying his heart and inheriting his appearance, b) Roxas faints in Castle Oblivion during Days because of coming too close to both Ventus' body/soul and Sora inside the Castle and c) Dream Drop Distance's ending clearly showing Ventus' body still being in the Chamber of Awakening where it was sealed into by Aqua?
Seriously, , how could Ventus' body, empty, sleeping and sealed away inside the Chamber of Awakening, suddenly teleport to Twilight Town exactly when Roxas was born there?
Roxas inhabits Sora's original body he lost in KH 1 when stabbing himself and turning into a Heartless, that's how the creation of a Nobody works, that's why he is Sora's Nobody, because he was born from Sora's heart leaving Sora's body. He only looks like Ventus' twin brother because Ventus' damaged, sleeping heart influenced the appearance of the body after Sora's heart had left it.

The other PoHs are also part of those exceptions, yes, but that goes beyond the point that MX's old body does not count as one of those exceptions.


So your saying that Luxu took MX his body, and then went somewhere else and did not accompany Xehanort. Okay, but that would mean there are now 2 old man Xehanorts. 1 where Luxu controls the old body, and 1 that was created after Xenmas and Ansem where defeated.
But I don't think Luxu took Xehanorts body. One of the reasons he took Terra's body was because his body was "old" and "brittle" and that he need a younger and stronger one, so he could see what happend after the Keyblade War.Luxu his job is to watch, and I don't think watching in a old an brittle body that probaly wouldn't survive a Keyblade War is a good idea.

One other thing concerns me about that scene, Xehanort says "At last, our moment is here.". I always assumed he was talking to Terra, but what if he is indeed talking to Luxu, who is nearby, or maybe even in the Keyblade (as others suggested)?

All this talk together with that PoH talk brought me to another question. In KH 1 Sora releases all the hearts with the Keyblade of Heart. That's what makes that keyblade special, yet Xehanort released his own heart with the Goat Keyblade. What's up with that?

So I've heard alot about those Ultimania, where do you guys read it? Coz I can't seem to find it anywhere...

What prevents Org XIII of trying again? Next time Sora is unconscious they can just try again right?

Yes, why did Young Xehanort move in Mickeys Stopza?

Well, they do talk about Roxas being a worthy vessel. But he also says he can't be a vessel because he returned to Sora. And Xion returned to Sora too, so I don't think those 2 can become vessels. Otherwise they would have done it already.

But... but that's not possible. There are 4 realms. So the Daybreak Trio can't represent 3 realms. There is the Realm of Light, Realm of Darkness, Realm In Between and with DDD, the Realm of Sleep. (there is also the Realm of Nothingness, but that's just another name for the Realm of Darkness).
No, that would not mean 2 old man Xehanorts at all because MX got obviously his old body back during the recompletion process in the finale of DDD. The old man Xehanort seen there is indeed the old body he discarded in BBS, the DDD Ultimania and the Memorial Ultimania confirm that.
Thus Luxu being possibly in control of the old body would thus only apply for the time period between the end of BBS and the end of DDD, the exact time period where it is known that Xehanort was not inhabiting it.

I'm also nowhere implying that Luxu took that body in order to get to his ultimate goal with it, but more like that it is used to further put pieces and parts of plans in motion in accordance with Xehanort's other schemes during the time period between BBS and DDD. He is only further aiding/performing steps of Xehanort's plans, not aiming to actually "watch the Keyblade War" while using that body.

Of course Luxu's heart being sealed inside the Goatblade is also a possibility, one doesn't rule out the other.

Any true Keyblade Master can release/transfer their own heart or hearts of others with their Keyblades, Xehanort explicitly mentions that in the Xehanort Reports in BBS, so him doing exactly that with the Goatblade is just seeing that ability in action, unrelated to the specialty of the Goatblade.
The Keyblade of Heart was special in the vein that it could generally open and release hearts as a property of the blade itself as explained by Ansem SoD while possessing Riku. Thus even a total noob like Sora could do it without a problem while this action (releasing hearts) is normally an ability reserved to true Keyblade Masters (and Darkness wielders who know the secret how to steal hearts, like Maleficent).

The Ultimanias are companion books to each KH game which are only released in Japan, full with additional story details and confirmations as well as further Nomura interviews explaining even more stuff.
Translations of many of the important interviews and scans of some pages can be found on the main KHInsider site in the "Interviews" section of each of the respective games.

It's one of the more glaring flaws of the KH series that all this information helping to make the story more clear is present only in supplementary material that isn't even available worldwide instead of being in the primary medium itself.

Sure they could do that, but it would be pretty lame from a storytelling point of view not to mention that it is highly unlikely that the main playable character would suddenly be forced to fight for the enemy.

It wasn't Young Xehanort himself but the main essence of the present Master Xehanort possessing the younger Xehanort which bypassed the spell. That's also why Young Xehanort can suddenly summon a Keyblade against Riku, he isn't a Keyblade Wielder yet but his older self entering overrides this.

Xion and Roxas could indeed only become vessels if they have a physical presence aka a body. Xehanort is not interested in hearts for his vessels, but just in bodies. Preferably empty bodies without hearts or bodies where the heart is sleeping/shattered so there's no resistance to his possession.

Tbh I do not even think something like a "Daybreak trio" exists, that is just a fan-made name for a group that was never once seen together at all, not even to talk about that "Player" isn't even an actual true character but a projected avatar.
 
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JR199913

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You're not missing anything but simply got a fact wrong. ;)
From where do you get that Roxas actually used Ventus' body??? That does not make one ounce of sense.

How could Roxas use Ventus' body when a) Roxas has absolutely no connection to Ventus at all beyond carrying his heart and inheriting his appearance, b) Roxas faints in Castle Oblivion during Days because of coming too close to both Ventus' body/soul and Sora inside the Castle and c) Dream Drop Distance's ending clearly showing Ventus' body still being in the Chamber of Awakening where it was sealed into by Aqua?
Seriously, , how could Ventus' body, empty, sleeping and sealed away inside the Chamber of Awakening, suddenly teleport to Twilight Town exactly when Roxas was born there?
Roxas inhabits Sora's original body he lost in KH 1 when stabbing himself and turning into a Heartless, that's how the creation of a Nobody works, that's why he is Sora's Nobody, because he was born from Sora's heart leaving Sora's body. He only looks like Ventus' twin brother because Ventus' damaged, sleeping heart influenced the appearance of the body after Sora's heart had left it.

The other PoHs are also part of those exceptions, yes, but that goes beyond the point that MX's old body does not count as one of those exceptions.




No, that would not mean 2 old man Xehanorts at all because MX got obviously his old body back during the recompletion process in the finale of DDD. The old man Xehanort seen there is indeed the old body he discarded in BBS, the DDD Ultimania and the Memorial Ultimania confirm that.
Thus Luxu being possibly in control of the old body would thus only apply for the time period between the end of BBS and the end of DDD, the exact time period where it is known that Xehanort was not inhabiting it.

I'm also nowhere implying that Luxu took that body in order to get to his ultimate goal with it, but more like that it is used to further put pieces and parts of plans in motion in accordance with Xehanort's other schemes during the time period between BBS and DDD. He is only further aiding/performing steps of Xehanort's plans, not aiming to actually "watch the Keyblade War" while using that body.

Of course Luxu's heart being sealed inside the Goatblade is also a possibility, one doesn't rule out the other.

Any true Keyblade Master can release/transfer their own heart or hearts of others with their Keyblades, Xehanort explicitly mentions that in the Xehanort Reports in BBS, so him doing exactly that with the Goatblade is just seeing that ability in action, unrelated to the specialty of the Goatblade.
The Keyblade of Heart was special in the vein that it could generally open and release hearts as a property of the blade itself as explained by Ansem SoD while possessing Riku. Thus even a total noob like Sora could do it without a problem while this action (releasing hearts) is normally an ability reserved to true Keyblade Masters (and Darkness wielders who know the secret how to steal hearts, like Maleficent).

The Ultimanias are companion books to each KH game which are only released in Japan, full with additional story details and confirmations as well as further Nomura interviews explaining even more stuff.
Translations of many of the important interviews and scans of some pages can be found on the main KHInsider site in the "Interviews" section of each of the respective games.

It's one of the more glaring flaws of the KH series that all this information helping to make the story more clear is present only in supplementary material that isn't even available worldwide instead of being in the primary medium itself.

Sure they could do that, but it would be pretty lame from a storytelling point of view not to mention that it is highly unlikely that the main playable character would suddenly be forced to fight for the enemy.

It wasn't Young Xehanort himself but the main essence of the present Master Xehanort possessing the younger Xehanort which bypassed the spell. That's also why Young Xehanort can suddenly summon a Keyblade against Riku, he isn't a Keyblade Wielder yet but his older self entering overrides this.

Xion and Roxas could indeed only become vessels if they have a physical presence aka a body. Xehanort is not interested in hearts for his vessels, but just in bodies. Preferably empty bodies without hearts or bodies where the heart is sleeping/shattered so there's no resistance to his possession.

Tbh I do not even think something like a "Daybreak trio" exists, that is just a fan-made name for a group that was never once seen together at all, not even to talk about that "Player" isn't even an actual true character but a projected avatar.
Okay, I phrased that wrong. I didn't literally mean "using Ventus his body". Was more pointing at the fact that he looks like Ventus. I thought he took the appearance of Ventus because Sora wasn't a Heartless long enough, so the Nobody didn't "finish". So it took Ventus his body (appearance). Yeah... I don't have alot of knowledge beyond the games...

I know, just like to point it out.

Ooo, so that's what you meant with Aqua defeating him (is it confirmed in what time period 0.2 takes place?).

But how much can you really do in a old body? I dunno, it seems more like a hinderance to me...

O, well that explains that.

Dayum, that are alot of interviews :O Gonna do alot of reading this vacation.

You would kinda expect a English release with all the 1.5 and 2.5 hype.

I know, but I'm just saying, they might try again in the future. Doesn't mean they will be successful. Just saying that Sora still faces the threat of becoming a Vessel, even though they failed the first time.

Okay... then why didn't the others move? Especially Xenmas and Ansem, techincally they are also a version of Xehanort.

Then why doesn't Xehanort use puppets? For real, Xion was a puppet. I'm sure Xehanort can make 12 other puppets and possess those. Empty bodies, no hearts, no resistance, it sounds perfect.

Me neither. But I like to point out there are 4 realms now (DDD, making everything overly complicated).
 

Sephiroth0812

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Okay, I phrased that wrong. I didn't literally mean "using Ventus his body". Was more pointing at the fact that he looks like Ventus. I thought he took the appearance of Ventus because Sora wasn't a Heartless long enough, so the Nobody didn't "finish". So it took Ventus his body (appearance). Yeah... I don't have alot of knowledge beyond the games...

I know, just like to point it out.
English is not your first language, is it? ^__^
In this case speaking just of appearance prevents misunderstandings.

The reason Roxas looks like Ventus has nothing to do with how long Sora was a Heartless, but with the fact that Sora's heart left its body but Ventus' damaged heart remained. Since appearance is dictated by the dominant heart as seen with Terra-Xehanort where Terra's body got silver hair and golden eyes. In the case of Sora's body when "reborn" as Roxas Ventus' heart was the only one remaining and thus the body took that appearance.

What was indeed influenced by Sora's short time as a Heartless is that Roxas got none of Sora's memories and thus was able to develop an own, independent identity. Having no memories of Sora at all also resulted in Roxas' appearance remaining like Ventus' as there was no "template" for Sora's appearance.

Fair enough.

Ooo, so that's what you meant with Aqua defeating him (is it confirmed in what time period 0.2 takes place?).

But how much can you really do in a old body? I dunno, it seems more like a hinderance to me...

Dayum, that are alot of interviews :O Gonna do alot of reading this vacation.

You would kinda expect a English release with all the 1.5 and 2.5 hype.
The time period cannot be 100% pinpointed yet due to the weird time axis the Realm of Darkness runs on and also because we don't know how much time 0.2 really covers, but it is safe to say that it happens after BBS and before Dream Drop Distance.

Mickey speaks about meeting Aqua once in the RoD and there was only one time period where Mickey was in the RoD: During KH 1.

MX still did pretty fine with it in BBS I'd say and Luxu might also not need the body primarily for battle.

It's quite a lot indeed, although to save some time I'd recommend reading mostly the Ultimania and Famitsu interviews, these hold most often the most important information.

As far as I know Ultimania books are never released outside Japan, the ones of the Final Fantasy series didn't either if I recall correctly.

I know, but I'm just saying, they might try again in the future. Doesn't mean they will be successful. Just saying that Sora still faces the threat of becoming a Vessel, even though they failed the first time.

Okay... then why didn't the others move? Especially Xenmas and Ansem, techincally they are also a version of Xehanort.

Then why doesn't Xehanort use puppets? For real, Xion was a puppet. I'm sure Xehanort can make 12 other puppets and possess those. Empty bodies, no hearts, no resistance, it sounds perfect.

Me neither. But I like to point out there are 4 realms now (DDD, making everything overly complicated).
Of course it is still a possibility, although I'd certainly suspect for Sora to fight the series of final clashes alongside his friends and allies, not forcibly against them.
It is already bad enough that the prospect for Terra having to fight on the wrong side is pretty high.

Eh, because as far as we know Master Xehanort's main essence can only be in one vessel at a time. Xemnas and Ansem might also be a version of Xehanort, but they were NOT inhabited and controlled by the main Xehanort.
Think about Xehanort controlling his vessels via remote control usually, but he can also choose to jump into one vessel directly, and that was what happened to Young Xehanort in the Stopza scene.
That's also why Mickey acts so surprised as he recognizes Master Xehanort acting directly through Young Xehanort.

Because the puppets/Replica program turned out to be highly flawed and troublesome to fully control as shown with both the Riku Replica and Xion. Several discussions during Days between Xemnas, Xigbar and Saix are about the Replica program, but once Vexen, the main overseer and mind behind the project is killed, it cannot be continued and further refined.
That's why Xemnas says Vexen's demise was "unexpected". He was not scheduled to be eliminated at Castle Oblivion by Xemnas, that was the doing of Axel and Saix.

Strictly spoken the Realm of Sleep is a special place that exists outside(or simultaneously to) the other three. The original three all have a different time axis (i.e. in the Realm of Darkness time runs much slower than elsewhere) but in the Realm of Sleep time does not flow at all, as explained by Yen Sid in DDD.
 

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If you don't know why I said Skuld and Ephemera are connected to Sora. Skuld and Sora share certain clothing aspects (Belts, Zippers, and chains are in the exact places) As for Ephemera, that one is a bit harder to connect he shares more traits with Riku than Sora. Also they are main characters in their games, and Sora is connected with every important character. It is basically confirmed by this point, and all details exist for a reason. So that also means Skuld and Ephemera are connected to Xehanort in some way.

Or everything I said is just overthinking and they have no connection
 
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KeybladeLordSora

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If you don't know why I said Skuld and Ephemera are connected to Sora. Skuld and Sora share certain clothing aspects (Belts, Zippers, and chains are in the exact places) As for Ephemera, that one is a bit harder to connect he shares more traits with Riku than Sora. Also they are main characters in their games, and Sora is connected with every important character. It is basically comfrimed by this point, and all details exist for a reason. So that also means Skuld and Ephemera are connected to Xehanort in some way.

Or everything I said is just overthinking and they have no connection
You're definitely overthinking it.
 

Luxu

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You're definitely overthinking it.

Am I? Or did I confirm it? But this is a theory, and like always theories use overthinking as a bases. I wouldn't say that little theory is confirmed nor disproven. As Kingdom Hearts is a game series where all details are made for a reason.


But overthinking is what made people think Empherea and Skuld where bad, well before later updates
 

JR199913

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English is not your first language, is it? ^__^
In this case speaking just of appearance prevents misunderstandings.

The reason Roxas looks like Ventus has nothing to do with how long Sora was a Heartless, but with the fact that Sora's heart left its body but Ventus' damaged heart remained. Since appearance is dictated by the dominant heart as seen with Terra-Xehanort where Terra's body got silver hair and golden eyes. In the case of Sora's body when "reborn" as Roxas Ventus' heart was the only one remaining and thus the body took that appearance.

What was indeed influenced by Sora's short time as a Heartless is that Roxas got none of Sora's memories and thus was able to develop an own, independent identity. Having no memories of Sora at all also resulted in Roxas' appearance remaining like Ventus' as there was no "template" for Sora's appearance.

Fair enough.



The time period cannot be 100% pinpointed yet due to the weird time axis the Realm of Darkness runs on and also because we don't know how much time 0.2 really covers, but it is safe to say that it happens after BBS and before Dream Drop Distance.

Mickey speaks about meeting Aqua once in the RoD and there was only one time period where Mickey was in the RoD: During KH 1.

MX still did pretty fine with it in BBS I'd say and Luxu might also not need the body primarily for battle.

It's quite a lot indeed, although to save some time I'd recommend reading mostly the Ultimania and Famitsu interviews, these hold most often the most important information.

As far as I know Ultimania books are never released outside Japan, the ones of the Final Fantasy series didn't either if I recall correctly.



Of course it is still a possibility, although I'd certainly suspect for Sora to fight the series of final clashes alongside his friends and allies, not forcibly against them.
It is already bad enough that the prospect for Terra having to fight on the wrong side is pretty high.

Eh, because as far as we know Master Xehanort's main essence can only be in one vessel at a time. Xemnas and Ansem might also be a version of Xehanort, but they were NOT inhabited and controlled by the main Xehanort.
Think about Xehanort controlling his vessels via remote control usually, but he can also choose to jump into one vessel directly, and that was what happened to Young Xehanort in the Stopza scene.
That's also why Mickey acts so surprised as he recognizes Master Xehanort acting directly through Young Xehanort.

Because the puppets/Replica program turned out to be highly flawed and troublesome to fully control as shown with both the Riku Replica and Xion. Several discussions during Days between Xemnas, Xigbar and Saix are about the Replica program, but once Vexen, the main overseer and mind behind the project is killed, it cannot be continued and further refined.
That's why Xemnas says Vexen's demise was "unexpected". He was not scheduled to be eliminated at Castle Oblivion by Xemnas, that was the doing of Axel and Saix.

Strictly spoken the Realm of Sleep is a special place that exists outside(or simultaneously to) the other three. The original three all have a different time axis (i.e. in the Realm of Darkness time runs much slower than elsewhere) but in the Realm of Sleep time does not flow at all, as explained by Yen Sid in DDD.
Nope it's not XD. I always have a Google Translate tab open when I make a post.

Thanks for explaining that.

Was there really only 1 time Mickey was in the RoD though? We don't exactly know what he was doing in the 10 years between BBS and KH1. It would make sense that he went looking for Aqua after the events of BBS, and then ended up finding her in the RoD.

Good point.

O thanks, that will make my life eaiser.

O yes, I'm positive he will fight along side his friends too (I would hate that plot twist). But he could turn into a Vessel, and then that gets reversed before the final clash because the Power of Friendship (and hopefully some cool Yen Sid Keyblade action).
I dunno, I've always had the feeling that they will save Terra before the final clash (hoping that they will make a Corridor of Light to transport Terra's LW to Terranort where the LW starts to kick his ass and then gets his body back. Maybe my expectations are too high).

O wow, that's a whole new level possession... So, he could have chosen any of his Vessels to fight Mickey and Riku, yet he chose his Younger version. Can we conclude out of this that his Younger version is his strongest version?

But isn't the reason the program failed because the Replica's got the "wrong" memories? Xion got Sora his memories (or some of them). Wich I think defined her personality, making her do the right thing in the end. She joined back with Sora, making it a failure for the Organization.
Riku Replica was often faced with the fact that he was just a copy of someone else. Wich made him go crazy. Wich was another failure for the Organization.
If Xehanort were to possess 12 other puppets, they would have the same personality as him, because of his memories. And because he possesses them he can prevent them from going crazy.
Well, Vexen did get reborn as Even, but he is now in an unstable condition... so there's that. But he is a scientist.
In the Organization everyone had to keep track of a diary, I'm sure he wrote down some of his research in those diaries. And he is a scientist, so he probaly values good documentation. Meaning he wrote all of his research down. Xehanort may not be as smart as Vexen, but I think that with all the research Vexen did, he could refine it, eventually.
He survived in the Manga ._. Kind of...

I still count it as a Realm though. And doesn't the fact that it exists simultaneously to the other three make it a Realm?

Am I? Or did I confirm it? But this is a theory, and like always theories use overthinking as a bases. I wouldn't say that little theory is confirmed nor disproven. As Kingdom Hearts is a game series where all details are made for a reason.


But overthinking is what made people think Empherea and Skuld where bad, well before later updates
Gonna go with KeybladeLordSora here, your overthinking this.

To what clothes are comparing it? Sora's KH1 outfit, KH2, DDD, KH3? I usually don't pay alot attention to the clothes. And yes, alot of important characters are related to Sora, but I just don't see the traits you see that connects them to Sora and Xehanort.
 
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