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KINGDOM HEARTS Union X Finale



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Sephiroth0812

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Except Vanitas has quite literally said that he's not really part of Ventus at all. He quite literally said that he was hidden inside Ventus for a really long time and all Xehanort did was just drag him out of Ventus. IIRC, the JP dialogue even had him flat out state he was a separate being from Ventus entirely. The point is, it's not really pointing towards a hybrid situation at all. More like Vanitas was just a foreign invader who would hide himself inside Ventus before Xehanort dragged him out. From what we've seen of UX, it just falls in line with what Ventus did with one of those darknesses at the end and forced it back into his heart and forging their connection. So yes you can maybe say Vanitas did take something from Ventus when Xehanort took him out(and that was a part of his heart) but Vanitas' situation doesn't sound like Roxas' situation whatsoever.
What Vanitas actually did is contradicting himself in KH 3 when looking at all his statements in vanilla KH 3 and Re:Mind together. Not to mention he talks about "black masses" inside Ven which he doesn't know the origin of and can't confirm if they belong to Ven, to himself or a third being entirely in the character files.
Just because he says something doesn't mean he's right nor that he knows all the facts.

This points towards Vanitas himself not being entirely sure and him taking/having a part of Ventus actually would be quite a big deal because the sum of all the parts (one of the six "lesser" darknesses + part of Ven's heart) would be bigger and thus different than the original.
"Vanitas" as the being presented in BBS and onwards didn't exist until Xehanort created him as it was stated he's a "newborn heart" and that heart was shaped for four years by Xehanort.

The developments in Union X confirm that the sources from which Vanitas was created were not solely from Ventus, but it does not confirm that he's unrelated or unconnected to Ventus completely.

The parallels to Roxas are there even if they are not 1-to-1 as Roxas is also more than the sum of the parts (Sora's and Ven's hearts) that originally created him.
 

korr4k

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What Vanitas actually did is contradicting himself in KH 3 when looking at all his statements in vanilla KH 3 and Re:Mind together. Not to mention he talks about "black masses" inside Ven which he doesn't know the origin of and can't confirm if they belong to Ven, to himself or a third being entirely in the character files.
Just because he says something doesn't mean he's right nor that he knows all the facts.

This points towards Vanitas himself not being entirely sure and him taking/having a part of Ventus actually would be quite a big deal because the sum of all the parts (one of the six "lesser" darknesses + part of Ven's heart) would be bigger and thus different than the original.
"Vanitas" as the being presented in BBS and onwards didn't exist until Xehanort created him as it was stated he's a "newborn heart" and that heart was shaped for four years by Xehanort.

The developments in Union X confirm that the sources from which Vanitas was created were not solely from Ventus, but it does not confirm that he's unrelated or unconnected to Ventus completely.

The parallels to Roxas are there even if they are not 1-to-1 as Roxas is also more than the sum of the parts (Sora's and Ven's hearts) that originally created him.
I don't really think it matters much in the grand scheme.

The bottom line is that there were once 13 dark beings and there will be another 13 by the end. As MoM said, this is the way of the world: 13 opposing 7, it's a cycle that will always repeat until you break it somehow.

It doesn't matter who are those 13 Darknesses, only that there are that many, and IMHO it's only natural that during the entire process the final 13 aren't going to be an exact copy of the original ones.
 

Cumguardian69

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I've never really been invested in the official translations or anything, but why do I find myself explaining to people why the SENA's behavior with this is bad. Isn't it obvious how unprofessional they're handling this? I'm not upset over it, but like... shouldn't it bother you a little bit how little they care about it?

"It doesn't affect me, so I don't care! Why do you?"

I dunno, because what if they continue like this? What, are you going to defend them when they announce KH4 and the official US twitter accounts don't say anything about it or when it's coming or when it'll be released?? Imagine if Japan got a release date and the US Kingdom Hearts account is like, "Melody of Memory now available on the PS5! KH4 who? Oh yeah that. I guess we'll tweet about it someday."
Bruh...we live in the Internet age. If KH4 is announced, they're gonna show trailers at TGS, Jump Festa, and possibly E3. There's no excuse to NOT know about besides willful ignorance. jpn still gets KH first because it is a Japanese game at heart.
 

KeyToDestiny

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What Vanitas actually did is contradicting himself in KH 3 when looking at all his statements in vanilla KH 3 and Re:Mind together. Not to mention he talks about "black masses" inside Ven which he doesn't know the origin of and can't confirm if they belong to Ven, to himself or a third being entirely in the character files.
Just because he says something doesn't mean he's right nor that he knows all the facts.

This points towards Vanitas himself not being entirely sure and him taking/having a part of Ventus actually would be quite a big deal because the sum of all the parts (one of the six "lesser" darknesses + part of Ven's heart) would be bigger and thus different than the original.
"Vanitas" as the being presented in BBS and onwards didn't exist until Xehanort created him as it was stated he's a "newborn heart" and that heart was shaped for four years by Xehanort.

The developments in Union X confirm that the sources from which Vanitas was created were not solely from Ventus, but it does not confirm that he's unrelated or unconnected to Ventus completely.

The parallels to Roxas are there even if they are not 1-to-1 as Roxas is also more than the sum of the parts (Sora's and Ven's hearts) that originally created him.
IIRC that dialogue came from the novel and that isn't really part of the main canon. Even the character files are questionable. Also I don't see why we shouldn't take what he says at face value. There's no reason to not believe him. For all we know, he could have had amnesia similar to Ventus and then ended up regaining pieces of his memories from the past. By KH3RM, he was quite literally firm in what he said to Ventus about what he said and even in KH3 vanilla, what he said wasn't really that contradictory to what he told Ventus and Sora after his defeat. He was "Darkness" became connected to Ventus and would dwell within his heart until Xehanort ripped him out and then Sora would take his place. Remember that he doesn't just refer to himself as a "piece" for Ventus but also refers to Sora as a "piece" for Ventus as well.

So again, I'm still not really seeing the Roxas parallels here at all since they don't really seem to be the same at all since Vanitas is pretty much saying he was a pre-existing being before he got to Ventus and that was said in the game instead of the novels or character files. Guess we'll have to wait until the future games elaborate more on those connections.
 

GreyouTT

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Is it strange that I liked the translations for UX more than the main games? Like yeah there's a few hiccups and they miss callbacks, but the lines felt... more "natural" I guess?
 

Chie

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It may be that UX itself is more naturally written. Many other KH games are also more naturally written than, say, KH3 for example.
 

Cumguardian69

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The translations for UX were better than say 3 becoz ux was lore heavy and world buulding, it wasn't character drama. 3 had really weird writing.
 

Rydgea

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Man, what a bizarre experience playing this game has been. I remember creating a Yahoo! Japan account just to get a taste.

Not sure how much Re:Mind or Melody of Memory would have helped me understand any of its mysteries as I have yet to play them, but as the gateway to the next phase/saga/etc, UX's story has been intriguing to say the least. The way it's been told over the years does leave me struggling to recall certain events while also apprehensive to rewatch, relearn the material. I still think it's a shame, maybe a disservice to itself, as a more standard, streamlined KH experience could transform it into a stronger entry. Though, I did appreciate the aesthetics, maybe they could be preserved and repackaged if there were ever to be a fully-fledged remake. (CoM still deserves this tbh.) All things considered I ended up enjoying quite a few of the characters, and because of that it was bitterly cruel for that last faux-battle to deceive us, the player, into thinking we were fighting poor Ephemer & Skuld (when "we" were doing the deceiving).

Sitting at 99% for story mode thinking, "Why not?" as far as knocking out these last 10-20 Proud Mode quests, but they are bruuutal. I haven't picked up the game but maybe once early this year? I might have taken all of 2020 off. And now I might be shorted that one measly percent because of it. Bah.

Still, it was nice to get to play with some of you over the years. Will always have a soft spot for Team Jasmine Dragon~
 

AdrianXXII

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What Vanitas actually did is contradicting himself in KH 3 when looking at all his statements in vanilla KH 3 and Re:Mind together. Not to mention he talks about "black masses" inside Ven which he doesn't know the origin of and can't confirm if they belong to Ven, to himself or a third being entirely in the character files.
Just because he says something doesn't mean he's right nor that he knows all the facts.

This points towards Vanitas himself not being entirely sure and him taking/having a part of Ventus actually would be quite a big deal because the sum of all the parts (one of the six "lesser" darknesses + part of Ven's heart) would be bigger and thus different than the original.
"Vanitas" as the being presented in BBS and onwards didn't exist until Xehanort created him as it was stated he's a "newborn heart" and that heart was shaped for four years by Xehanort.

The developments in Union X confirm that the sources from which Vanitas was created were not solely from Ventus, but it does not confirm that he's unrelated or unconnected to Ventus completely.

The parallels to Roxas are there even if they are not 1-to-1 as Roxas is also more than the sum of the parts (Sora's and Ven's hearts) that originally created him.
Yeah, honestly I disliked the revelation initially, but it actually works pretty well. Vanitas is still part of Ven, but he's also more and something older. This helps explain why he managed to take form and didn't just become a heartless and it explains, why he can create the Unversed. He's not just Ven's darkness, but also an otherwise powerful dark entity in his own right.

Ven and Darkness merged, Darkness being imprisoned in Ven's strong heart of light. Xehanort probably sensed the powerful darkness locked within and grew frustrated that Ven wouldn't embrace it so, he carved it out. I assume what he carved out wasn't just purely the Darkness that Ven imprisoned, but also a part of Ven, considering the damage to his heart and the lingering connection between the two and also Sora.
Like you said Vanitas is more than just the sum of his parts and I think if the other darkesses get separated from their hosts it'll most likely be similar.
 

Violet Pluto

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Darkness spoke of themselves as a separate entity when it was expelled from Ven's body, wherein they claimed that the two were now pure darkness and pure light. Ven wasn't born of pure light, so the only conclusion is that they took his own darkness along with them during the exit. When Ven assimilated them again, he was taking in an individual comprised of Darkness as well his former natural born darkness.
I'm not sure how pure Ven was before Darkness took him over, but this part reminds me of what Master Odin said. Originally Darkness invaded people's hearts and now it's a natural part of them. I wonder if that took place before X. Actually as I was typing that sentence I realize it probably took place before X because MoM's plan as was revealed was to expose his students to harsh conditions that would make their Hearts more suited to harbor one of the 13 Shades of Darkness within them. I don't think that Darkness would easily corrupt pure light, so I guess I answered my own question.

Anyway reminder to people that Vanitas was shaped by Ventus' heart anyway, so seeing them as being connected or himself as another part of Ven wouldn't be too out there even if Ventus was pure light. It's like when your roommate moves out and says that the home was half his when he never paid rent. While technically that isn't accurate you can see why he said it. I really hope that simile wasn't super obtuse and something only I get.
 

Alpha Baymax

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Did Ephemer die young after founding Scala Ad Caelum? It would play to the symbolic meaning of his name.
 

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I also think its weird that Ephemer would randomly think of naming it Scala Ad Caelum (unless that name came later). Did the Union X verse speak Latin lol
 

AdrianXXII

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I also think its weird that Ephemer would randomly think of naming it Scala Ad Caelum (unless that name came later). Did the Union X verse speak Latin lol
Maybe he read in the Book of Prophecies that that's what the city should be named. The Master of Masters seems to like giving stuff Latin names, at least if his apprentices are anything to go off of.
 

GreyouTT

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I like how his statue is normal person shaped while everyone else is a chibi.
 

Moonlight Aqua

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I was watching Cynical's video on a theory he as on Scala and I feel he's on to something. That each one we seen, it's different time periods. Like the one where Brain is in, is the ancient one and where baby Xehanort is born in, but he is then taken to Destiny Islands and when he sees older Xehanort , he's teleported to modern scala.
 

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I wonder if there will be any kind of statement from Nomura or anything to mark the end of the game since the app is shutting down today. I’d love an interview to get some thoughts but I doubt any media is really interested in covering this. Lol
 

The_Echo

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I wonder if there will be any kind of statement from Nomura or anything to mark the end of the game since the app is shutting down today. I’d love an interview to get some thoughts but I doubt any media is really interested in covering this. Lol
He's done a number of interviews with Famitsu (and Dengeki?) for UXDR
I wouldn't be surprised to see one show up in the next couple weeks, talking about the finale and maybe about Dark Road's full release.
 

Luminary

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He's done a number of interviews with Famitsu (and Dengeki?) for UXDR
I wouldn't be surprised to see one show up in the next couple weeks, talking about the finale and maybe about Dark Road's full release.

Yeah I guess it’s more that Square Enix themselves haven’t really brought much attention to the finale since they’re no longer making money off of it. So SE themselves may not feel like setting up an interview is worth their time from a marketing standpoint. And Famitsu probably has more exciting things to cover right now with E3 and all.

Maybe he’ll do one for NEO: TWEWY and some KH questions will come up. Or likewise if they do something for FF: Origin.
 
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