KINGDOM HEARTS Union X Finale

[Sign]

Only in the sense that they are Observations, written from the point of view of someone who doesn't know what is happening behind the scenes. Luxu of course does know the answers to almost all of the questions he is asking. A lot of half-truths, but I don't believe there is anything in them that would make Pinoccio's nose grow.


And that is presumably the same one we saw meddling with the Queen of Hearts in DR. If so, it must have just escaped to somewhere in the real world.

Speaking of Darknesses, one thing that hasn't been discussed yet is them in the modern timeline. The chess game has seven black pieces. One of them is in the MoM for sure. Another is supposed to be in Luxu, but after the face reveal I find that somewhat suspicious. Then there are the four remaining foretellers. The Darknesses inside their hearts were supposed to be destroyed in the War, but the chess pieces suggest otherwise. Or have they acquired a new set? If Wreck-It Ralph is part of the fictional world, and the foretellers went there after the war, then Ephemer and the Player sent four Darknesses into the same place where the four foretellers were... In any case, this leaves Ava, Ven/Vanitas, and the one on loose as candidates for the last Darkness.

I don't think they were destroyed in the war. The way MoM talks about it in the flashbacks indicates that he intended for all of the vessels to be around in the future so that they can be defeated by a new generation of Keyblade wielders strong enough to do so. That's why they repeat the part of the conversation about not having enough time at the start of the final update.

 

[the red monster]

Since the foretellers are vessels to darkness, it truly was ava that killed strelitzia. unless i'm missing something?
i know that it was actually ven, but it was ava's darkness that took control of him.
i hope i got it right.

 

[Cumguardian69]

Since the foretellers are vessels to darkness, it truly was ava that killed strelitzia. unless i'm missing something?
i know that it was actually ven, but it was ava's darkness that took control of him.
i hope i got it right.

Not necessarily. We dont know if the dorkness that bodyhopped Ven was Ava's prime dorkness or if it was a lesser dorkness.

 

[AdrianXXII]

I just realized that they seemed to have either done away or forgotten that the whole game had originally been framed as a story Kairi's Grandma was telling Kairi.

 

[kristi-swat]

Not necessarily. We dont know if the dorkness that bodyhopped Ven was Ava's prime dorkness or if it was a lesser dorkness.

There should be 7 darknesses lying around if that was the case.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Let's just get this out of the way.

Player would have no influence on Ansem or Xemnas' appearances because they basically have no true canon appearance, with the closest they have being the generic male avatar in the recap opening of Back Cover and the DR flashbacks.

I don't even understand why Ansem SoD's looks suddenly became important to these people. He really doesn't look that different from the other versions of Xehanort, and I'm pretty sure it was Riku's body that gave Ansem SoD a physical form in the first place.

Ansem Seeker of Darkness' design is arguably an anomaly because Xemnas was clearly modelled after Terra (or the other way round if you really want to get technical about origins) because Xemnas is the Nobody of Terra-Xehanort. Terra's heart clearly had no influence with Ansem Seeker of Darkness so I think his design is what an Adult Master Xehanort would have looked like.

 

[gulava]

but it was ava's darkness that took control of him.

Just to clarify this, there are 13 darkness; the strongest 7 are meant to dwell in the lost masters's hearts whereas the other 6 are meant for the union leaders. MoM trapped(?) the 6 darknesses in data daybreak town for them to reside in the union leaders(+ ven), and the one that took control of Ven's body is one of them.

 

[Noivern]

I just realized that they seemed to have either done away or forgotten that the whole game had originally been framed as a story Kairi's Grandma was telling Kairi.

The story from her Grandma still applies to UX, it just wasn't show, really. She talks about how the children rebuilt the world after it was engulfed by darkness and resulted in the smaller, separte worlds we have now: After the original world is destroyed (final scene of Ephemer and Skuld looking at Daybreak town), said event probably occured where the children that lived elsewhere and had nothing to do with the whole X mess rebuilt the world.
Some time later, Ephemer is floating around in his Lifeboat in the ocean of the remains of Daybreak, which now most likely functions as a individual empty world. He rebuilts said world into Scala (I assume in a similar fashion to how Land of Departure turns into Castle Oblivion and the other way around, tinkering with the world's heart to reshapee it), yada yada.

Daybreak was purely the center of said original unified world, not the entire thing. They just did not bother to show any other part of the world besides the desert that becomes the Keyblade Graveyard, and those mountains where the Dandelions met with Ava.

I doubt we would ever get back into this unless they want to navigate around the mental image of said unified world. lol

Ansem Seeker of Darkness' design is arguably an anomaly because Xemnas was clearly modelled after Terra (or the other way round if you really want to get technical about origins) because Xemnas is the Nobody of Terra-Xehanort. Terra's heart clearly had no influence with Ansem Seeker of Darkness so I think his design is what an Adult Master Xehanort would have looked like.

Personally I think they both look the same, it's just the outfit that changes (with SoD wearing the exact same fit as Hag Xehanort, just with his massive titties pushing the buttons open). But with Nomura's artstyle and everyone looking the same, does it even matter?

 

[Ballad of Caius]

This is perfect
let’s have Axel roxas or xion be the one to open the door and do the correction of names thing.
also slight nitpick Mickey was in the battle with larxene and Marluxia so he would also be there to witness their last words (If you beat Luxord first that is)

Here’s an explanation of what the reference mark may mean from hmk

hope it can help the discussion

The idea of the Reference Mark representing Quadratum makes sense. The way I see it, the Reference Mark could be a Square that's separated, making it look Unreal.

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

The idea of the Reference Mark representing Quadratum makes sense. The way I see it, the Reference Mark could be a Square that's separated, making it look Unreal.

Engine 5

 

[Xickin]

Every random crazy initial question I had when I first saw this (I've figured some out by now, but feel free to answer)

Spoiler Show

1. I always kind of theorized that the Keyblade War was a sham. It started FOR the Foretellers, leading me to think that either the Foretellers were well aware that it was for them and/or they would survive (hence why Ira and Aced switched demeanours so quickly in Back Cover ➔ Keyblade War, and why they weren’t too thrown back by being summoned by Luxu at the end of 3)
2. Is MOM planning on taking the darkness of Pride into himself? When did these darknesses take root in the Foretellers? Luxu seemed very unaware, so it either hasn’t happened to him yet, or it’s very subtle, like even moreso than Ventus.
3. What do you guys think the other 6 darknesses are? Any spitball ideas?
4. So it was confirmed that Luxu is the traitor. In the passage it said that “You will misinterpret the words”, what do you think Luxu thought MoM meant when he said “Look, but don’t touch”?
5. I wonder if a person willingly gives over their body, then whatever form of possession Luxu had over Brain and currently Xigbar, he’s able to act as if it was his own body, kind of like if you give into the darkness willingly (hence why Brain got his body and heart back in old Scala Ad Caelum).
6. Do you think that final ark pod will play some significance? I know I do (like having the other 6 darknesses somehow escaping).
7. That Nightmare Chirithy never really got explained to us, did it? Why was it ours? Whose is following us? What was with its parting words?
8. What did that symbol mean when MoM said “A world of _”? Was it just a placeholder?
9. So it’s implied that WE become Xehanort/ I’m not sure I like that. I liked my character, and just thinking about all the stuff MX will do makes me kind of sad. Also, we’ll play as Sora to kick our own ass.
10. Who do you think the old dude in the robe is? I don’t think it’s Ephemer, only because chronologically it doesn’t make much sense. If Brain arrived and IS the grandfather of Eraqus, then it only makes sense that Ephemer and him would be in the same timeline, since Baby Xehanort would not have been born yet. You’d think if Ephemer heard Brain was back in town, he’d be like “What’s up, man!”. But also, I feel like Sigurd speaks as though Ephemer is ancient.
11. Who do you think was approaching Ventus? Is it an implied MX?

 

[Sign]

Every random crazy initial question I had when I first saw this (I've figured some out by now, but feel free to answer)

Spoiler Show

1. I always kind of theorized that the Keyblade War was a sham. It started FOR the Foretellers, leading me to think that either the Foretellers were well aware that it was for them and/or they would survive (hence why Ira and Aced switched demeanours so quickly in Back Cover ➔ Keyblade War, and why they weren’t too thrown back by being summoned by Luxu at the end of 3)
2. Is MOM planning on taking the darkness of Pride into himself? When did these darknesses take root in the Foretellers? Luxu seemed very unaware, so it either hasn’t happened to him yet, or it’s very subtle, like even moreso than Ventus.
3. What do you guys think the other 6 darknesses are? Any spitball ideas?
4. So it was confirmed that Luxu is the traitor. In the passage it said that “You will misinterpret the words”, what do you think Luxu thought MoM meant when he said “Look, but don’t touch”?
5. I wonder if a person willingly gives over their body, then whatever form of possession Luxu had over Brain and currently Xigbar, he’s able to act as if it was his own body, kind of like if you give into the darkness willingly (hence why Brain got his body and heart back in old Scala Ad Caelum).
6. Do you think that final ark pod will play some significance? I know I do (like having the other 6 darknesses somehow escaping).
7. That Nightmare Chirithy never really got explained to us, did it? Why was it ours? Whose is following us? What was with its parting words?
8. What did that symbol mean when MoM said “A world of _”? Was it just a placeholder?
9. So it’s implied that WE become Xehanort/ I’m not sure I like that. I liked my character, and just thinking about all the stuff MX will do makes me kind of sad. Also, we’ll play as Sora to kick our own ass.
10. Who do you think the old dude in the robe is? I don’t think it’s Ephemer, only because chronologically it doesn’t make much sense. If Brain arrived and IS the grandfather of Eraqus, then it only makes sense that Ephemer and him would be in the same timeline, since Baby Xehanort would not have been born yet. You’d think if Ephemer heard Brain was back in town, he’d be like “What’s up, man!”. But also, I feel like Sigurd speaks as though Ephemer is ancient.
11. Who do you think was approaching Ventus? Is it an implied MX?

4. Luxu definitely saw a loophole and violated MoM's orders. I mean, technically he didn't interfere directly with the Union leaders, but he acted in ways that had ripple effects that impacted them.

8. No, it's not a placeholder. If it were, it's likely they would use _____ as they did in KH2 with the word "photo", or OOO which is like the Japanese equivalent of ***. That being said, apparently this reference point has a number of meanings so it's anyone's guess what it means in this scenario.

9. There's a lot of debate over this right now. The word used in the dialogue commonly means "to dissolve" so people are understanding it to mean "Player's heart became Xehanort's heart" aka reincarnation. This is also the more popular take because it results in maximum meme-age, which is this fandom's priority. However, as AR-numbers explained in his thread as well as in goldpanner's translation and a number of Japanese fans' own interpretation, it's possible it's similar to the Ven-Sora scenario but not as pronounced, if that makes sense.

 

[HamHamJ]

I don't see much functional difference between the two. Unless Player's Heart pops out and suddenly shows up in a future game, the facts are that the Player no longer exists and Xehanort has their (partial, vague) memories.

 

[Zettaflare]

I think the old man could be Sigurd. Sigurd himself might be around Brain's age group. And if Brain is truly Eraqus' grandfather Sigurd would potentially be an old man by the time Xehanort was born.

 

[ZeVaine]

I have no issue with the player reincarnating to some extent as Xehanort. It ties wonderfully back to Kh1 and the parallels between Sora and Xehanort - having weird thoughts lately, and having dreams of other people. That connections to the past and others have always driven or influenced the desires of their new hosts. If Xehanort's situation is parallel to Sora's, where Ven's heart was still technically, I'm curious if then Player's heart should also released lol.

However, in all honesty, I think it's implied it's a significantly different scenario - and in Xehanort's case it wasn't just harboring a weakened heart within his, it was actually completely reincarnated... and what Xehanort sees in his dreams, are simply strong memories etched into the remains of the heart used to form that one that is Xehanort... an expression we've seen used quite a few times, that I think would fit here. The story would suggest the former situation, but it makes more sense in terms of plot holes in the latter explanation.

Dark Road, plz. You're our only hope for some clarification on the Xehanort saga. I hope a Nomura interview happens at some point, too lol.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

9. There's a lot of debate over this right now. The word used in the dialogue commonly means "to dissolve" so people are understanding it to mean "Player's heart became Xehanort's heart" aka reincarnation. This is also the more popular take because it results in maximum meme-age, which is this fandom's priority. However, as AR-numbers explained in his thread as well as in goldpanner's translation and a number of Japanese fans' own interpretation, it's possible it's similar to the Ven-Sora scenario but not as pronounced, if that makes sense.

Correct me if I remember this wrong but didn't Ienzo say something related to the issue with the three hearts inside Sora (Ven, Roxas and Xion) being somehow "integrated" into his own yet also each of them having their own distinctive "box"?

I also remembered that Sora/Ven or Sora/Roxas might not be the only possible example as we have had a similar issue yet with different outcomes or overall properties also with Terra/Eraqus and possibly even Terra/Xehanort despite the latter being an unwilling and forced "union".

The way how different hearts can "combine", "melt together" or "join" seems to have as many different possibilities and procedures as there are Xehanorts and if the joint hearts can be split again into the original individuals seems to be also hinge on different circumstances and the personalities involved.

Then there's of course also the issue with Xehanort being capable of breaking off parts/fragments of his own heart and placing those into other people or empty vessels as he chooses apparently without any negative consequences for his overall main being.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

I think the old man could be Sigurd. Sigurd himself might be around Brain's age group. And if Brain is truly Eraqus' grandfather Sigurd would potentially be an old man by the time Xehanort was born.

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[Sign]

Correct me if I remember this wrong but didn't Ienzo say something related to the issue with the three hearts inside Sora (Ven, Roxas and Xion) being somehow "integrated" into his own yet also each of them having their own distinctive "box"?

I also remembered that Sora/Ven or Sora/Roxas might not be the only possible example as we have had a similar issue yet with different outcomes or overall properties also with Terra/Eraqus and possibly even Terra/Xehanort despite the latter being an unwilling and forced "union".

The way how different hearts can "combine", "melt together" or "join" seems to have as many different possibilities and procedures as there are Xehanorts and if the joint hearts can be split again into the original individuals seems to be also hinge on different circumstances and the personalities involved.

Then there's of course also the issue with Xehanort being capable of breaking off parts/fragments of his own heart and placing those into other people or empty vessels as he chooses apparently without any negative consequences for his overall main being.

Great points!

 

[Noivern]

My issue with Player's heart simply resting inside Xehanort's instead of being literally reborn into him is that this opens waaaay too many doors in the overal narrative.

For Sora and Ventus, at least we know Ventus was dying in Destiny Islands where Sora was born (at least for now. Retcons are getting scarier) at the very same time, so there's that going for.

Player died in the distant past in Data Daybreak Town while Xehanort was born a unknow amount of time later; at least a few decades later, but most likely at least a century later.

While the whole thing has more dept to it than we currently know considering Xehanort was moved to another world for unknow reasons, as of now it feels too chaotic to me.

If it was a case of reincarnation then sure, it makes sense. Heart went away and reincarnated after a unknow amount of time, pretty akin to real world interpretations of reincarnation.

But if it's a case similar to Ventus, Eraqus and so on, then that opens up a whole can of worms where literally every character could be harboring a heart of a departed individual for plot convenience, lol.

However, that brings another interesting question: maybe Strelitzia and the Nameless Star (that people like to call Stella) could still be the same person; Strelitzia actually died, so maybe she also reincarnated and the Star is what remains of her first life after her heart became another's; similar to how the Avatar Spirit works in Avatar/LoK?

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

Whatever the case may be, it's clear that outside of flashbacks to Player in Dark Road and possible X-Blade knowledge, Player has no other real impact on Xehanort, who essentially went his whole life without them affecting him compared to Sora being affected by Ven and Roxas.

And out of universe it's just some way of moving to Dark Road