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KINGDOM HEARTS Union X Finale



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KeybladeLordSora

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The whole thing with Saïx had more to do with him omiting things from Axel while pretending to follow along to Xemnas plans than anything, really. He was a major asshole and still has a part in what happened, but if go over the actual events of Days, the one who actually pushes Xion to almost death is Riku.
Of course he had his reasons to do that and he was gentle in a way, but only because she actually agreed with him. Otherwise he probably would have fought against her just like with Roxas.
Honestly the most involvement Riku had in that was telling her the situation and saying "You should think about it but also think about what's best for everyone"

He never exactly forced her to do it.

And he also asked Namine if there was a way to get Sora's memories back without having Roxas and Xion disappear.

There was....but it would've taken too long and DiZ was being impatient as hell.
 

Hedginka

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I feel that you're really overstating Saïx's role in Days. "Saying mean things" is pretty accurate for nearly all of his screentime in Days.


Not in the slightest. The argument that Xemnas was the sole contributor to everything is entirely mute, because Saix gave the orders. He gave the orders for Roxas to fight the heartless that was actually Xion, just as he gave Roxas the order to place a device in Agrabah that would lead to him fighting Xion again. On top of that, the shit he said to Xion wasn’t just mean, it was damaging and it was constant. Heck, let’s not forget that Saix tries to kill Roxas on Day 356
 

Idreamaboutcats

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Forget the Saïx thing for a while; the guy had abandonment issues, and hurled a lot of verbal abuse, yes, yes, we know.

What matters now is wrapping up any loose ends now that it’s all over, but we just got more questions instead. What is it that MoM is referring to? We know it’s Quadratum, but we hardly know what Quadratum actually is. It isn’t a data world, because then that would constitute it as still a part of “Reality.” We know it’s the opposite of that, a “fantasy.” But what constitutes a fantasy? The translation here, while unofficial, describes it as some sort of afterlife destination, and while I’m doubtful if that’s what it actually means due to the existence of the Underworld, the underlying question remains:

What is the unreality/fantasy that MoM talked about?

What are the components of its existence if even the primary forces of reality and their “parts” (i.e. dreams, data, and that one other thing I forgot) have no dominion over it?

How did MoM get there? Has he been going back and forth or did he just enter recently?
 

Violet Pluto

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What matters now is wrapping up any loose ends now that it’s all over, but we just got more questions instead. What is it that MoM is referring to? We know it’s Quadratum, but we hardly know what Quadratum actually is. It isn’t a data world, because then that would constitute it as still a part of “Reality.” We know it’s the opposite of that, a “fantasy.” But what constitutes a fantasy? The translation here, while unofficial, describes it as some sort of afterlife destination, and while I’m doubtful if that’s what it actually means due to the existence of the Underworld, the underlying question remains:

What is the unreality/fantasy that MoM talked about?
...I'm hoping (and I don't know whether this is hoping for or against this right now) Final Fantasy. Or some equivalent. We assumed that Nomura didn't want FF characters in KH anymore because he was salty, but what if it wasn't only that, but because he wanted to introduce an equivalent in "Unreality" as opposed to the worlds above that are mostly Disney focused with some FF influence?

Now that's just my first thought (which if it's anywhere close to right that would be amazing) but Fantasy/Fiction being a world that you can't even imagine sounds really odd otherwise. The whole Unreality thing is tripping us up because it's a bit nonsense, literally. It goes against all common sense that something that is not real has it's own reality that you can go to. Because that makes it real. But whatever Nomura, I'm up for your wacky ride.
 

Ballad of Caius

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This would very much fit the thematics of how Quadratum, despite being supposedly fictional, looks just like the real-world city of Tokyo, while the supposedly real world of KH's universe is made up of fairy tales/literature/movies. The "real world" of the arcade, which contains the video games (while we are literally playing video games!) goes along with the same reverse subtext. And Quadratum/Verum Rex the video game was introduced in the same world that first introduced Ralph, before the UX stuff.

"In this world, you come from a video game." -YX. Was he referring to Sora as Yozora? Or did it mean something else?
It'd be ironic if the denizens of Quadratum share the sentiment that the worlds of KH are also an Unreality, like, denizens from the opposing worlds think they both are Unreality.

---

Edit:

That makes me wonder: what would the people of Quadratum call the world of KH?
 

Xagzan

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Forget the Saïx thing for a while; the guy had abandonment issues, and hurled a lot of verbal abuse, yes, yes, we know.

What matters now is wrapping up any loose ends now that it’s all over, but we just got more questions instead.

Symbolically, that's pretty much exactly my problem with KH in a nutshell. In a way this is channeling the writers. Instead of focusing on characters, which at this point have become the strongest element of the narrative (and Saix is one of the most interesting tbh), they seem to want to direct our attention to this abstract labyrinth of quasi-philosophical, jumbled, as y'all say, nonsense. It's probably not going to be coherent in the end anyway, and will probably be explored at the expense of character, which the whole UX saga itself displayed.
 

Cumguardian69

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Characters cant be focused on in this chibi drip feed style. Lets weight until our next real KH game comes out before we judge phase two writing, character, and world building.

Becoz introducing new world concepts was X/UX/XBC/MoM primary job and I'd say they did that very well.

•unreality (basically another dimension - not a "realm" but an entirely different dimension with different properties and physics and constitutions)
•death is not THE end necessarily
•how is dram eeter formed?
•Darkness the entities vs Darkness the force
•arks and time travel
•body hopping and heart ejection
 

Xagzan

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Even mobile drip feeds can have decent character work. They certainly run for long enough. Dissidia Opera Omnia has even done a few interesting things with some FF characters over the years, and that's got a cast of 100+ to juggle.

Also, UX didn't really introduce most of those concepts. Hell, as far as time travel goes, what are we on now, like, the 3rd set of rules?
 

Violet Pluto

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Even mobile drip feeds can have decent character work. They certainly run for long enough. Dissidia Opera Omnia has even done a few interesting things with some FF characters over the years, and that's got a cast of 100+ to juggle.

Also, UX didn't really introduce most of those concepts. Hell, as far as time travel goes, what are we on now, like, the 3rd set of rules?
We are still on the second set. The first was regarded as too dangerous and basically "cheating" in-universe. This one is basically "You need a version of you at the time you travel to or someone to remember you and a vessel at destination" and "only the heart can travel through time, the body is abandoned in travel." If anything it was added to slightly, but nothing was overwritten.
 

Tobi

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It'd be ironic if the denizens of Quadratum share the sentiment that the worlds of KH are also an Unreality, like, denizens from the opposing worlds think they both are Unreality.

---

Edit:

That makes me wonder: what would the people of Quadratum call the world of KH?
That was one of my first thoughts after learning about the whole unreality thing, although I did lean more towards the idea, that the KH world is the true unreality, while Quadratum and its world is meant to be reality (well as much as reality can be in a game series with magic and such stuff). But I guess the idea that the whole reality/unreality stuff is really ending up as a thing of perspective is more safer for series to continue (or atleast it would be weird to play as characters who became aware of it, that they are unreal).

But yes, I agree that the whole thing sounds for me too like an attempt to strengthen the Final Fantasy side and MoMs talk about it did strengthen that idea for myself. It sounded kinda like someone would advertise a Final Fantasy game, which has the concept of being unreal in it's very name. Tbf, MoM talked more about a place which is unimagineable, but i do think the result is the same.
 

Zettaflare

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I'm glad that Demyx and Luxord had nothing to do with The Age of Fairy Tales, let them be important in Quadratum.
Same. Them being from Quadratum or the missing classmates is far more interesting.

Though I suspect Demyx might be that person in the white Cloak MoM shipped off
 
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Ballad of Caius

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Same. Them being from Quadratum or the missing classmates is far more interesting.

Though I suspect Demyx might be that person in the white Cloak MoM shipped off
[/QUOTE]
Hmm... I'm on the boat that thinks that the True Dandelion is a female character, and at that, possibly Streritzia. Maybe that's how Ventus, Lauriam and Elrena all end up in different eras, but can exist in them because someone remembers them: Streritzia. And she is called the True Dandelion because she helped the Dandelions fly out of the end of the world: by being in those eras, remembering the Union Leaders.
 

Violet Pluto

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I'm glad that Demyx and Luxord had nothing to do with The Age of Fairy Tales, let them be important in Quadratum.
Xemnas never said anything about Age of Fairytales just "the Ancient Keyblade Legacy" Which you can read as the AoF, but doesn't exactly mean that specifically. Also Demyx lost his memories? Because he looks confused when Xemnas says that, and while I can buy it for Larxene and Marluxia, it's unclear if Demyx knows. Also Luxord, but I forgot his name for most of this post and I don't want to go and restructure everything now.
 

Alpha Baymax

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Xemnas never said anything about Age of Fairytales just "the Ancient Keyblade Legacy" Which you can read as the AoF, but doesn't exactly mean that specifically.
Yeah, that's the technicality that Xemnas uses. Most people immediately assumed that The Ancient Keyblade Legacy = The Ancient Keyblade War but I figured it was much more complex than that after ReMind.
 

LoneFox

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A couple of observations about Ephemer and Skuld. First, I assumed that Ephemer not launching was his own last moment decision, that he wanted to try to save the player. This seems natural, because we saw that he was thinking about the player, and such a move would also be very in-character for him. But if we take a closer look, the machine is controlled from the computer and not from inside the pods. He didn't have that option, and in fact neither of them went anywhere near the computer. So, this looks like Skuld didn't get launched either!

Second, how come this hasn't caused the shipping thread to explode?

Ephemer.and.Skuld.jpg
 

Sign

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A couple of observations about Ephemer and Skuld. First, I assumed that Ephemer not launching was his own last moment decision, that he wanted to try to save the player. This seems natural, because we saw that he was thinking about the player, and such a move would also be very in-character for him. But if we take a closer look, the machine is controlled from the computer and not from inside the pods. He didn't have that option, and in fact neither of them went anywhere near the computer. So, this looks like Skuld didn't get launched either!

Second, how come this hasn't caused the shipping thread to explode?

Ephemer.and.Skuld.jpg
I think we are too invested in these characters as an OT3 rather than an OTP.

Or at least that's just me lol
 

SweetYetSalty

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I'm glad that Demyx and Luxord had nothing to do with The Age of Fairy Tales, let them be important in Quadratum.
I'm so thankful for that. Since it was teased/hinted Luxord might be in Quadratum I've been crossing my fingers Demyx is from there too. I mean personally I wished they were just some random guys on the street who came into power by chance, but those theory days are long over. As long as they are not time traveled...please!

That being said, I'm a little hesitant learning more about them, regardless where they are from. Luxord and Demyx are some of my favorite Organization members and I'm afraid they'll change their core characters if we go too deep into their backstory. Among members 9-12, Luxord to me is the most interesting right now. They are making him more important but haven't changed what made the character, they are just playing up to his gambler riddle talk that he's had for awhile now. I would hate for us to go to Quadratum and find out, "Oh this was all an act! Luxord is actually this character" As for Demyx it would so be in character for him to know more then he lets on but is so lazy he doesn't mention it to anyone because he wants to stay out of the spotlight. Needless to say I hope Demyx doesn't change either.
 
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