KINGDOM HEARTS Union X Finale

[DarkGrey Heroine]

I think it’s a different f-word....

Fu– *ahem* Fiction...

That’s just going by how Ansem the Wise refers to it in Melody of Memory.

EDIT: JK. They use the term fiction earlier in the conversation, so that probably wouldn’t be bleeped out. It could be Unreality though.

Nah, you're close. The word is clearly Fanfiction at this point
They can't simply drop that one on us, reveals too much too soon

 

[Noivern]

I.. Wow. I watched the finale in japanese when it first came out, and just now watched the translated version to understand what actually happened; well, as much as I could gather, anyways.

I'll go back and read the entire thread before commenting further to see the discussion, but I'll post my impressions for now:

- Ephemer's destiny was.. really sad. It seems like he ended up alone, building the city on his own? Only waiting for his friend to show up in the future to continue their plans..
- I guess this also confirms that Eraqus descends from Brain, in the end? Not really sure how I feel about that. Also, Sigurd? More Nordic mythology? Amazing.
- So, Xehanort's mother is Skuld? Who the heck was that, really? I really want to understand why Xehanort got sent away to Destiny Island.. But I guess that also explains how he found his way back into Scala as well, he just followed his heart.
- I guess that also confirms that Vanitas is Darkness; one of them, anyways, taken shape. Going to assume that Xehanort is another one of them, and when the player reincarnated he brought that with them.

 

[AdrianXXII]

If Luxu had indeed taken over Brain's body and ejected his heart in the process, the body shouldn't still resemble Brain, right?

There's also the matter of Brain's words in the final scene, which suggest he used the ark.

That's a good point, this increases my suspicions of there being some Data hijinks going on here. There must have been a reason for them to bring up that there must be Data copies of them in Data Daybreak Town.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I can also imagine that this Darkness managed to posess Luxu, but he was to strong at this point and couldn't be overtaken, leading to the end, which you described. On top of it, it would explain the change of his personality, because although Luxu was at the start the stronger one between them, over time the Darkness got stronger/ Luxu became weaker.

While that would be a possibility with others I doubt it was the case with Luxu.
The Darkness he faced was one of the six lesser ones while already having one of the seven higher ones sealed within him according to the previous explanations of the MoM without any sign of possession.

If Luxu can handle one of the seven higher Darknesses why should he have problems with one of the lesser ones.

---
That being said, the whole separating the Darkness beings into "higher" and "lesser" ones reminds me of the hierarchy of the Burning Hells in the Diablo-franchise.
There they have seven Demon Lords called the "Great Evils" ruling Hell which are split into three "higher" Prime Evils and four "lesser" evils.

 

[Chie]

I don't think ※ was censoring anything. I think he was saying exactly what he said - a world of ※.

I'm not sure how to explain ※ accurately but it makes some sense to me.

 

[Sign]

I don't think ※ was censoring anything. I think he was saying exactly what he said - a world of ※.

I'm not sure how to explain ※ accurately but it makes some sense to me.

On a related note, I hate that this series keeps making me have to google things because there's no way to type them out.

 

[kvyra]

Go claim the foreteller award. You deserve it.

Now I wanna claim that Quadratum is going be where the first keyblade war as was the battle for the creation of x blade. Hence why Yozora doesn't use a keyblade and has skeleton on his shoulder

 

[AdrianXXII]

I don't think ※ was censoring anything. I think he was saying exactly what he said - a world of ※.

I'm not sure how to explain ※ accurately but it makes some sense to me.

Had to look up the symbols meaning. A world of Reference? Not really sure how to interpret that

 

[Cumguardian69]

Now I wanna claim that Quadratum is going be where the first keyblade war as was the battle for the creation of x blade. Hence why Yozora doesn't use a keyblade and has skeleton on his shoulder

Dont light and darkness not have any sway in quadratun like they arent conceptd

 

[kvyra]

Dont light and darkness not have any sway in quadratun like they arent conceptd

Also want to point out that MoM in kh3 secret ending he makes a square shape to the moon then turning his figures into a heart shape.

 

[korr4k]

That's what I thought, too! But that would mean that Ephemer would live a veeeeeeery long time lol

EDIT 2: Clueless thoughts :
- Did Lauriam and Elrena wake in the Snow White and Aurora worlds right after Ven went there in BBS?
- The shadow that walks to Ven in the badlands doesn't look like Xehanort, does it?
- How does Luxu lose the box?
- Isn't it awesome that the final boss of the game are Ephemer and Skuld? That's some classic KH goodness. <3 Like fighting Xion and Riku.

True that was a gut feeling but most out of sentimental reasons. It is a lot more plausible that the old guy is Brain, Luxu left instructions to this "secret group" in Scala to pick up a child and bring him to Destiny Island because he has an important destiny to fulfill. Nobody probably even knew it was Player reincarnated

The shadows with Ven is definitely NOT old master Xehanort, and it is not just a hidden figure, it is actually smokey to me.. hence IMHO it is the darkness that was inside of him in the past. Ventus stated he wanted to do something to gave it a physical form so that they could kill it, clearly, he failed and that is the result. Now it is going back inside his body to later became Vanitas.. or it has to do with that random thing that was still inside Ventus at the end of KH3 when there should have been none

Imho Luxu knew that he was going to have to give himself to Darkness prior to BBS events, according to MoM's plan. It would be plausible that he hid the box before losing himself and forgot about it intentionally so that Darkness couldn't access it

Questions:
So was Luxu the traitor?

That is a big question. He could be the traitor nominated many times during Back Story just because they needed someone to take the blame or..
Or he actually IS a traitor but to MoM, meaning down the line Luxu is gone, or will go, against MoM's plans for him BUT MoM already knows it and is ok with it, hence why he calls him traitor

 

[Clue.Less]

Or maybe he died while looking for the Player, and had the same choice as Player did. Remember that Eraqus was also having strange dreams about the past. Then compare the relationship between Ephemer and Player to that of Eraqus and Xehanort. See where this is going...?

Personally, I believe the whole joining with another heart thing is just a fourth wall breaking way to explain why we are playing as Xehanort in Dark Road. But if there is more to it than that, then what I'm suggesting is a real possibility.

Yes, I do see where this is going and I don't like it XD I really hope it's just a fourth wall break, but...

Ephemer and Skuld were surprisingly easy tbh. The Cy-Bugs were worse.

Poor Ephemer and Skuld

The first thing which I noticed there was that their surroundings fitted their symbols or motiv as Nobodies if you want to call it like that. Lauriam = flowers; Elrena = thunderstorm.

Until some minutes ago I thought it was pure symbolism, but now where I think of it, maybe the sceneries were somehow a trigger for someone passing by remembering them (subconsiously or not) and triggering this way their reapeerrance. For Lauriam it might be explainable with his keyblade, but I can't come up for any connection between Elrena and thunder prior her time as Larxene, but at the same time we learned less about Elrena than Lauriam, so there might be a connection we are not aware of yet. Furthermore in the case of a subconscious memory coming up it could fit with something what someone else said (and others also already had refferenced), that their memory loss wasnt caused by the pods, but because of something else. This else would be in this case, that the memory was only weak and so the recreation of their bodies wasn't in a perfect way.

I love this idea of triggers. What if the thunderstorm triggers memories of the sounds of Daybreak Town collapsing?
And that because of a weak memory bodies would be recreated in an imperfect way, that's an intriguing theory!

 

[korr4k]

There's also the matter of Brain's words in the final scene, which suggest he used the ark.

There was NO arc for Brain to use

Brain arrived in the future, in Scala Ad Caelum, long after Ephemer had rebuilt it from the wreckage of Daybreak Town. His arrival was expected by people apparently. As to why Luxu looks like him, can't be sure of that yet. He probably took his body, then after he no longer needed it, he discarded it and sent him to the future.

Remember that the body resembles the heart controlling it. Supposing Luxu's heart got in sleep mode while Luxu did his things, then when he freed it, it went back to Brain young appereance. I don't think he sent the body to the future, he simply dropped it in scala at a certain time and told Strelitzia to pick him up

 

[Tobi]

I love this idea of triggers. What if the thunderstorm triggers memories of the sounds of Daybreak Town collapsing?
And that because of a weak memory bodies would be recreated in an imperfect way, that's an intriguing theory!

And the more I think about it, the more it would explain what changed between Larxenes and Marluxias destruction in CoM and 3. It is only an idea at this point, but the biggest difference might be that in some kind of form Ephemer was present in the KH3 final. Ven and players reincarnation/Xehanort had their reasons for not remembering Lauriam and Elrena, because they could remember them at best only subconsciously. But Ephemers memories should have been intact and complete. His appearance was only before the big clash, but we know his spirit or whatever that was, was somewhere there in this world and sentinent. Even in the case he vanished from that world again and didnt continued to wander it as some kind of ghost, his short presence might have been enough for the lost memories to comee to that world, flowing back in their owners.

Although this would also mean, that the one remembering someone has to be in the same world as the one, who is to be remembered... maybe?

 

[Sign]

There was NO arc for Brain to use

Right, forgot about that. In any case, his words suggest he found a way to escape that led him to assume he'd have the same outcome as Lauriam and the others.

 

[Noivern]

Okay, so I finished reading the entire thread and now have a better grasp on the events, so with that in mind, there's some things that I feel like make sense now:

- Xehanort IS the player. It's not a case of having two hearts in one nor anything like that, it's simply "our" heart reincarnating from the cycle of Kingdom Hearts. That brings two things to consider:
1. Maybe the reason he is so obsessed with KH is especifically because he unlocks fragments of memories of his past life.
2. Xehanort was born with Darkness already present inside him, as the player seemed to be holding it in the final scene; they simply acted as being possessed, when in fact they managed to remain in control.

- Dark Inferno IS related to Ephemer, in the end; I think it's the materialization of his regrets regarding the playable character, possibly forever seeking them. Which could explain why it was present in the Graveyard; The place we "died" once before going into the data world, as well as where Xehanort used as his base. I'm not sure how canon the whole encounter is, but I'd guess it works as a visual representation of that?

- Scala seems to have quite the technology going on, seeming with how Sigurd seems to have been talking through a headphone of some sorts. Might be relevant for future DATA shenanigans.
- The graveyard we see in Dark Road might not have been for the inhabitants of the world in a timeskip end of the world scenario like how we were theorizing before, but instead is a memoir of the Dandelions made by Ephemer. And now we know why Xehanort was there; he may have remembered too much.

 

[ZeVaine]

On a related note, I hate that this series keeps making me have to google things because there's no way to type them out.

Our ※ are gone!
What?
All our ※ , are gone?
Huh? You can't say ※ ? Why not?

 

[Sign]

- Xehanort IS the player. It's not a case of having two hearts in one nor anything like that, it's simply "our" heart reincarnating from the cycle of Kingdom Hearts.

Chirithy says Player will join with a brand new heart. This seems like an intentional throwback to BBS, indicating that instead of Player continuing in life as a different person, their connection to Xehanort reflects Ven's connection to Sora. Both are characters in their final moments latching on to a new heart (although there is a massive time gap between Player and Xehanort that doesn't make sense, but so do a lot of other things in this finale lol).

Voice: I'm a brand new heart.

Ven: But this is-- Why are you in my heart?

Voice: The light brought me. I saw it shining in the distance...and followed it here.

Ven: Yeah. That was my light. But my heart is fractured. And now...the little I have left is slipping away.

Voice: Then you should join your heart with mine.

 

[Noivern]

Chirithy says Player will join with a brand new heart. This seems like an intentional throwback to BBS, indicating that instead of being one-in-the-same, Player's connection to Xehanort reflects Ven's connection to Sora:

While I could definitely see that being the case, I think this is quite the huge assumption. The way Chirithy spoke in that scene felt like they were simply stating what would happen to us in that scenario (in the same sense that if you loose your heart = you become a Heartless), which simply makes no sense:

- For that to be the case, what happened with Ven's heart has to happen naturally as well, otherwise hearts of deceased people are joining with brand new existing hearts all the time (which could kinda explain Eraqus memories, I guess?)
- The way the scene unfolds as the fate of the characters showing baby Xehanort to me implies that is already Player. There was also no visual hint that the connection happened later on at Destiny Islands in any shape or form, which clearly happened with Ventus.

Like, I think the throwback to BBS was definitely intentional from the narrative, but I don't think it's the same case as what happened to Ventus heart. But who knows, Dark Road could confirm that.

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

That moment when Player's memories are what causes Xehanort to recreate the Ark in Radiant Garden