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Kingdom Hearts Nitpicks



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disney233

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I find this a...pretty major plothole in the old Organization's plan.

So...from what I'm understanding, Xemnas is trying to make Kingdom Hearts. And to do that he's trying to collect all the hearts captured by the Heartless. But like...they kept saying that they NEED Xion, Roxas, and Sora because they're the ONLY ones that can take back the captured Hearts...right?

But like...this doesn't make sense to me.
tumblr_mqdoswu3gx1qhf31ao7_500.gif
This gif shows Cloud & Leon fighting the Heartless. And at ease, they're freeing the captured Hearts, right? They keep making out that Sora's the only one capable of freeing the captured hearts, but in this and MANY other occasions, just about ANYONE with a weapon seems capable enough to free the captive hearts.

It...doesn't make sense to me at all.
 

Absent

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I find this a...pretty major plothole in the old Organization's plan.

So...from what I'm understanding, Xemnas is trying to make Kingdom Hearts. And to do that he's trying to collect all the hearts captured by the Heartless. But like...they kept saying that they NEED Xion, Roxas, and Sora because they're the ONLY ones that can take back the captured Hearts...right?

But like...this doesn't make sense to me.
View attachment 12277
This gif shows Cloud & Leon fighting the Heartless. And at ease, they're freeing the captured Hearts, right? They keep making out that Sora's the only one capable of freeing the captured hearts, but in this and MANY other occasions, just about ANYONE with a weapon seems capable enough to free the captive hearts.

It...doesn't make sense to me at all.
“The rest of us can defeat Heartless, but we have no way of collecting the hearts they release. Eventually, the hearts will turn right back into Heartless. You see, then, how special you are?"

The implication from this Marluxia quote is that the Keyblade breaks a cycle. Without it the heart will become a Heartless again.
 

SweetYetSalty

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358/2 Days does a better job showing the differences too, to further go into what Absent is saying. When on a mission if a Organization member other then Roxas or Xion slay a Heartless the heart that is released is gray rather then the usually pink. This is for point calculation but it also means that that particular heart will not be going to the Kingdom Hearts moon in the sky that they are feeding.

However I am not sure if when Xion slays Heartless with magic and not her Keyblade if they are pink or gray. She usually snipes a Heartless in the middle of your attacks so it's heard to tell if Roxas or Xion get the kill lol.
 

disney233

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358/2 Days does a better job showing the differences too, to further go into what Absent is saying. When on a mission if a Organization member other then Roxas or Xion slay a Heartless the heart that is released is gray rather then the usually pink. This is for point calculation but it also means that that particular heart will not be going to the Kingdom Hearts moon in the sky that they are feeding.

However I am not sure if when Xion slays Heartless with magic and not her Keyblade if they are pink or gray. She usually snipes a Heartless in the middle of your attacks so it's heard to tell if Roxas or Xion get the kill lol.
But....the Heartless that Leon, Cloud, and just about everyone before Days defeated a Heartless, and the pink hearts are usally released. I guess I'm...starting to understand. Still kinda seems confusing.
 

SweetYetSalty

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But....the Heartless that Leon, Cloud, and just about everyone before Days defeated a Heartless, and the pink hearts are usally released. I guess I'm...starting to understand. Still kinda seems confusing.
I get what you are saying, they didn't have the point thing down by then. The heart of a Heartless is always released when a Heartless is slain. It's just with the Keyblade they go to Kingdom Hearts where anything else they just find their way back into more darkness and respawn. That's likely a lore reason why the worlds are so full of Heartless all the time. Days was the first game to try and show the differences of a heart slain by the Keyblade and one that wasn't.
 

Guernsey

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There was one nitpick I have with the Nobody concept. I wonder if the original plan was to make them into beings whose bodies were left behind but have no hearts. I wonder if they revealed to have been developing hearts was the result of fans love for the Org XIII? Why not use the other Org XIII characters in KH2!Org XIII as opposed to Vanita, Ansem, Terranort?
 

Absent

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There was one nitpick I have with the Nobody concept. I wonder if the original plan was to make them into beings whose bodies were left behind but have no hearts. I wonder if they revealed to have been developing hearts was the result of fans love for the Org XIII? Why not use the other Org XIII characters in KH2!Org XIII as opposed to Vanita, Ansem, Terranort?
I think conceptually Nomura left it vague and contradictory on purpose. By CoM we had Axel enjoying the drama which was the first hint. KH2 IMo purposely contradicted itself with what was said vs what was shown.
 

Raz

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Nobodies having the ability to gain hearts never struck me as particularly retcon-y. It pretty much lines up with the ethos in the series that anyone (toys, animals, puppets) can have a heart if they share meaningful memories and experiences with friends. Days is the game where we get to watch that development take place. It makes sense for Xemnas to convince the other members that their emotions aren't genuine to get them to help him make the fake Kingdom Hearts.
 

Sephiroth0812

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What copout when the hints and ambiguity where there since CoM?
It was never ever ruled out that Nobodies can gain a heart, on the contrary there were hints throughout the games themselves towards there being more to the whole issue than what Xemnas, DiZ and Yen Sid were saying.

The original concept of "bodies left behind that have no heart" wasn't even changed in any form so there isn't a retcon of already established lore, only an expansion that reveals this status is not permanent if the right conditions are met.

The instance @Absent mentioned is only one of several, not to mention the debate among the fandom itself if Nobodies can gain hearts or not filled entire forum threads back in the days before DDD existed.
 

SweetYetSalty

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KH2FM Marluxia, Larxene, Zexion, Vexen, and Lexaeus all have a disturbing lack of battle quotes. It's actually quite distracting going back to these bosses and all they do is laugh and grunt. I wish they had real battle quotes. Like when Zexion traps you in a book he should totally say "Take a look, it's in a book." Then a rainbow should shoot over the screen to transition. Give them personality!
 

disney233

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The REAL copout is the how nobodies can just...ambiguously revert back to their human selves when their heartless self AND their nobody self is destroyed. I guess I forgot HOW they explained how it happened, but I never liked the idea. it just feels like a shitty excuse to bring back old enemies. Another thing I dislike is the structure of the new Organization. Turning into a Nort...just doesn't hold meaning now, than it once did when it was introduced in...say BBS or DDD.

In anycase, I kinda dislike how the new Organization is structured anyway. It's LITERALLY the same people - 4. 2 of which is just
'benched.'
 

Guernsey

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What copout when the hints and ambiguity where there since CoM?
It was never ever ruled out that Nobodies can gain a heart, on the contrary there were hints throughout the games themselves towards there being more to the whole issue than what Xemnas, DiZ and Yen Sid were saying.

The original concept of "bodies left behind that have no heart" wasn't even changed in any form so there isn't a retcon of already established lore, only an expansion that reveals this status is not permanent if the right conditions are met.

The instance @Absent mentioned is only one of several, not to mention the debate among the fandom itself if Nobodies can gain hearts or not filled entire forum threads back in the days before DDD existed.
I suppose you are right. I guess I was just irritated with how it was handled.


The REAL copout is the how nobodies can just...ambiguously revert back to their human selves when their heartless self AND their nobody self is destroyed. I guess I forgot HOW they explained how it happened, but I never liked the idea. it just feels like a shitty excuse to bring back old enemies. Another thing I dislike is the structure of the new Organization. Turning into a Nort...just doesn't hold meaning now, than it once did when it was introduced in...say BBS or DDD.

In anycase, I kinda dislike how the new Organization is structured anyway. It's LITERALLY the same people - 4. 2 of which is just
'benched.'
I agree with this post and that describes my frustration immensely.
 

MATGSY

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I just realized that we will never get to hear pre-puberty HJO as Vanitas & now I am sad.
 

SweetYetSalty

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Sora and Saix have zero interaction in KH3. I just noticed this. Not a single word is spoken between these two. Every other member of the 13 Seekers have some form of interaction with Sora but not Saix. Strange considering Saix's henchmen role in KH2. Not really a nitpick more of a observation.
 

Zettaflare

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Sora and Saix have zero interaction in KH3. I just noticed this. Not a single word is spoken between these two. Every other member of the 13 Seekers have some form of interaction with Sora but not Saix. Strange considering Saix's henchmen role in KH2. Not really a nitpick more of a observation.
That's probably because Saix was locked in Berserker mode during their fight. Outside of the Keyblade Graveyard Saix and Sora could have spoken if Radiant Garden was playable. Or if he had been given his own Disney world
 

Dast

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I did think it was a shame that Saïx didn't get more screen time and taunting Sora and co. like he did in KH2.

Saïx's scene at the start of ReMind highlights a nitpick of mine. For an evil genius who plans 'for every eventuality', Master Xehanort is a bit of a gullible old fool. Both of his deputies are disloyal to him and he doesn't seem to know or care, and Saïx can see that Xigbar is hiding something about the box but Xehanort just keeps smiling away uninterested.
 

disney233

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I did think it was a shame that Saïx didn't get more screen time and taunting Sora and co. like he did in KH2.

Saïx's scene at the start of ReMind highlights a nitpick of mine. For an evil genius who plans 'for every eventuality', Master Xehanort is a bit of a gullible old fool. Both of his deputies are disloyal to him and he doesn't seem to know or care, and Saïx can see that Xigbar is hiding something about the box but Xehanort just keeps smiling away uninterested.
Ay, don't blame Re:Mind. Blame KH3 in general for hurling out literally EVERY untrustworthy character to be in the New Organization. Or rather, the members that isn't Ansem and Xemnas.
 

EternalDream

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To be fair, even with Xigbar and Saix totally backstabbing him, his plans still almost worked if it wasn't for Sora literally cheating, so he had all the reasons to not really care too much.
 
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