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Zettaflare

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Not just KH2. KH3 itself disregarded it when they brought Hayner, Pence, and Olette to Destiny Islands at the end of the game. So it's inconsistent and non-committal within the very same game.
It's possible Roxas told HPO about the existence of other worlds when he returned to Twilight Town. If they already knew no harm in letting them visit Destiny Islands
 

Twilight Lumiair

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All it really did was make Donald into a jerk.

Like, Kairi gets freaking shattered, and Xehanort basically wins and gets Kingdom Hearts. Suddenly Donald and Goofy show up out of nowhere and Donald just decides to say "Typical you can't do anything without us". I'm probably supposed to be getting a different feeling from that scene, but all I got was the feeling that it basically threw Riku's "you don't believe that" bit under the bus and reaffirmed Sora's belief that alone, he's worthless, he's just dead weight.
It's called tonal dissonance, and there's quite a lot of it in KH3. But yeesh, that sounds bad, lol.
It's possible Roxas told HPO about the existence of other worlds when he returned to Twilight Town. If they already knew no harm in letting them visit Destiny Islands
Could be, since I can't imagine Roxas giving a crap about rules like "world order" (but he was trained to be covert about it though, so who knows, lol). But it would have to have occurred off screen at some point.

And now that I think about it, either way, once Riku pulled up in the Gummiship while they were all sitting on the Clock Tower, chances are they would have to explain everything regardless. Even Donald would have to just say "fuck it" at that point.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Thank you all so much for the kind words! Usually when I make post like that they don't get much attention, so this came as a bit of a surprise. 😅

In regards to the merger, I completely understand the desire to see Vanitas become his own person, and it would actually fit with the series' themes of individuality and ability to change. For a long time, I was actually advocating for the same thing, hence why I made this thread a while back. But after going through BBS and analyzing Ventus' arc, it really seemed like the only way for things to truly come full circle was via their reunification. More specifically, remember how I kept bringing up how Ven's arc in BBS was essentially to regain the part of himself that he lost? I was actually reffering to this scene:

In it, after Sora touches Ventus' heart and prevents any further damage, he says that one day Ventus may be able to "win back the part he already lost", indicating that his journey would ultimately be about mending the damage Xehanort did to him, and becoming whole once again. Meanwhile, Vanitas has this same goal, but taken to an extreme. He's based his entire existence around filling the void in his heart and becoming whole once again, and along the way, due to Xehanort's influence, he lost his humanity and sense of individual worth. It just seemed perfectly fitting that the two would eventually rejoin on their own terms, and gain all the things they were looking for in the process.


Now, with that being said, there is definitely a way you can cleanly wrap up these lines and plot beats in a satisfying way while keeping the two separate, and that would be by shifting the framing so that it's more metaphorical than literal.

First, rather than have Vanitas on the verge of death, simply put him on his last legs, where he sees his defeat as inevitable and thus the scene I proposed earlier can still play out in a similar way.

In terms of being consistent with the set up back in BBS, "Winning back the part you already lost" could also translate to winning it back from Xehanort's grasp, which would be represented by Vani joining Ventus' side and turning against Xehanort in the finale. So in a sense, they now both have eachother in theie lives again to give them closure, rather than simply rejoining entirely. Their reconciliation and choice of a fresh start would then be what triggers their hearts to grow complete and independent, so neither are pure light or pure darkness anymore, but their own people with their own light and darkness (perhaps this could show that hearts have the power to choose what they are on just as much a physical level as an emotional). This way, Vanitas could still regain his humanity and Ven could still become whole, which allows them to both complete their arcs without changing the overall trajectory of them.
-------​
In general, though I would personally prefer them merging and think it opens the door for a more unique character, having a scenario like this would still be almost just as conclusive and satisfying (the only real lingering thing would be Vanitas' road to redemption, and the soul searching he'd have to go on to better define his new purpose in the world).

I think a merger would really only work better if KH3 was always intended to be the last that we saw of Vanitas, since at least this way he'd live on through a unified being whom shared his experiences, suffering, ect. If it's not, and there's room in the narrative for Vani to persist and go on his own journey, then I think the second idea, with the two staying separate and becoming whole via their new bond, would be more appropriate.
Both ways work really well. :D I want to say more but I got nothing. lol

Either way, Vanitas definitely deserved a second chance, or at least better closure in some form.
Definitely. Even if he does appear again (which I'm 100% certain he will) he should have gotten more in KH3 than he did. No question.

On the topic, I remember back when the first KH3 Sora figure was released (where he had the two shoot blasters), Nomura outright said in an early interview that by the time Sora gets most of his fancy abilities like Keyblade Transformations, he's already been named a Master.

The only reason I can think of as to why they cut that part out was in order to play up the whole "dull; ordinary boy" idea originally presented in DDD, but there's really no legitimate reason why Sora wouldn't have been named a Master when he obtained the PoW, and regained a lot of his lost power by the end of KH3. They had a scene at Mysterious Tower just before the protags' went off to fight Xehanort, so why didn't Yen Sid make Sora a Master right there? It was deliberately brisked over so that no one would question it, like so many other things in that game.
*Also, 400th post! Wooo!* 😀
The KH3 Nomura talks about in the interviews and the one we got are like completely different games.

All it really did was make Donald into a jerk.

Like, Kairi gets freaking shattered, and Xehanort basically wins and gets Kingdom Hearts. Suddenly Donald and Goofy show up out of nowhere and Donald just decides to say "Typical you can't do anything without us". I'm probably supposed to be getting a different feeling from that scene, but all I got was the feeling that it basically threw Riku's "you don't believe that" bit under the bus and reaffirmed Sora's belief that alone, he's worthless, he's just dead weight.
Nor does Riku ever actually defend Sora. He sees Sora being treated as useless. He sees how Sora's treatment effected him horribly. Then just shrugs it off by telling Sora that he doesn't believe that. No, Riku. He does believe that, because that's what everyone believes about him.

Maybe it's a good thing that in the next game, Sora will basically be all alone. He needs to believe in his own strength now.
Believe in his strength and to not take shit from so-called friends.

It's called tonal dissonance, and there's quite a lot of it in KH3. But yeesh, that sounds bad, lol.
And I highly doubt it's on purpose. It's so painful to see how Sora gets treated to the point that the antagonists make for better friends...
 
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Any

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Thank you all so much for the kind words! Usually when I make post like that they don't get much attention, so this came as a bit of a surprise. 😅

In regards to the merger, I completely understand the desire to see Vanitas become his own person, and it would actually fit with the series' themes of individuality and ability to change. For a long time, I was actually advocating for the same thing, hence why I made this thread a while back. But after going through BBS and analyzing Ventus' arc, it really seemed like the only way for things to truly come full circle was via their reunification. More specifically, remember how I kept bringing up how Ven's arc in BBS was essentially to regain the part of himself that he lost? I was actually reffering to this scene:

In it, after Sora touches Ventus' heart and prevents any further damage, he says that one day Ventus may be able to "win back the part he already lost", indicating that his journey would ultimately be about mending the damage Xehanort did to him, and becoming whole once again. Meanwhile, Vanitas has this same goal, but taken to an extreme. He's based his entire existence around filling the void in his heart and becoming whole once again, and along the way, due to Xehanort's influence, he lost his humanity and sense of individual worth. It just seemed perfectly fitting that the two would eventually rejoin on their own terms, and gain all the things they were looking for in the process.


Now, with that being said, there is definitely a way you can cleanly wrap up these lines and plot beats in a satisfying way while keeping the two separate, and that would be by shifting the framing so that it's more metaphorical than literal.

First, rather than have Vanitas on the verge of death, simply put him on his last legs, where he sees his defeat as inevitable and thus the scene I proposed earlier can still play out in a similar way.

In terms of being consistent with the set up back in BBS, "Winning back the part you already lost" could also translate to winning it back from Xehanort's grasp, which would be represented by Vani joining Ventus' side and turning against Xehanort in the finale. So in a sense, they now both have eachother in theie lives again to give them closure, rather than simply rejoining entirely. Their reconciliation and choice of a fresh start would then be what triggers their hearts to grow complete and independent, so neither are pure light or pure darkness anymore, but their own people with their own light and darkness (perhaps this could show that hearts have the power to choose what they are on just as much a physical level as an emotional). This way, Vanitas could still regain his humanity and Ven could still become whole, which allows them to both complete their arcs without changing the overall trajectory of them.
-------​
In general, though I would personally prefer them merging and think it opens the door for a more unique character, having a scenario like this would still be almost just as conclusive and satisfying (the only real lingering thing would be Vanitas' road to redemption, and the soul searching he'd have to go on to better define his new purpose in the world).

I think a merger would really only work better if KH3 was always intended to be the last that we saw of Vanitas, since at least this way he'd live on through a unified being whom shared his experiences, suffering, ect. If it's not, and there's room in the narrative for Vani to persist and go on his own journey, then I think the second idea, with the two staying separate and becoming whole via their new bond, would be more appropriate. Either way, Vanitas definitely deserved a second chance, or at least better closure in some form.
That’s good!


I’m 50/50 about Vanitas returning back tho. Half of me thinks he’s coming back because the KH3 novel decided to connect him to KHUx, for example having some of Ven’s old memories, the unversed being shaped from KHUx Ven’s trauma. There’s a drawing of him, Marluxia, and Larxene. Beside the novels, Ventus is connected to KHUx so I wouldn’t be surprised if Vanitas will involved too. If this isn’t the last of Vanitas then good, deserves a second chance.


And the other half of me thinks Vanitas is done and Nomura said certain characters won’t come back (yeah, it’s hard to believe him when he changes his statements a lot lol) So I don’t want my expectations to high. And if Vanitas doesn’t come back then he definitely deserved better than what KH3 gave him.
 

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Wasn't it confirmed that we won't see the final boss of each world in the KH3 trailers? (I could be way off here) But even then, still kinda pissed that they showed literally EVERY final boss from all 8 worlds.
 

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Either no one except Donald and Goofy care about world order, or world order only applies to Disney worlds, which I wouldn't be surprised about in the slightest since Disney was the reason "world order" was created in the first place.

Still don't understand how "Shut up about worlds Sora" and "Haha sora undependable and not a master" is funny tho
Finally someone who shares that opinion with me. A while ago, I critisized Donald being a huge jerk in KH3 and how much it annoyed me that everyone constantly talks down to Sora to the point of telling him he even "looks weak" when the dude basically beats three titans, hundreds of heartless and helps save a whole city up to that point. People claimed I wouldn't understand friendship because friendship is bickering; I do understand friendship and teasing very well, but some people take it too far to be friendly. Constantly telling someone they're useless, they're weak, they effed up terribly is no funny friendship teasing, it's pretty mean, especially when you already feel weak and lost. People asked me how else they should've acted, if they should've been nice all along - there's a huge span between being super nice the whole time and constantly picking on an insecure person. Friendships are supposed to make you feel good and supported despite hard times, not to increase your doubt all the time. I hope Donald finally stops being a jerk in future games.

Also, I really hope Vanitas doesn't come back .. I'm tired of every Tom, Dick and Harry being connected to the age of Fairytales. Too many characters are not good for a story; Nomura already proved he doesn't know what to do with a huge cast and still tries to press everyone into new story instead of being happy to lose a bit of attention weight. The BBS game never made me care for him since he's completely underdeveloped and just an evil henchman and KH3 made him a joke, so I couldn't care less about him.

Which brings me to another nitpick: The age of Fairytales hasn't really gone somewhere yet and is already flooded with characters. The five Foretellers, Luxu, the Master of Masters, Strelitzia, Ephemera, Skuld, Blaine, Lauriam, Elrena, Luxord, Demyx, Vanitas, Ventus (who will probably drag Terra and Aqua into that too) and depending on who Girl X is, Isa and Lea and let's not forget Sora who will stay the protagonist + his boyfriend Riku, maybe the guy from Verum Rex and his friends ..
These are at least 17 characters, most of which don't even have a personality that extends one or two words or disappeared quickly, so can we please stop the constant "surprise twists" and plan ahead for once?
 
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FudgemintGuardian

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Wasn't it confirmed that we won't see the final boss of each world in the KH3 trailers? (I could be way off here) But even then, still kinda pissed that they showed literally EVERY final boss from all 8 worlds.
I forget which interview it was, but I do remember this being stated. Which still pisses me off as they outright lied about content by claiming those bosses we see in the trailers weren't the final ones.
 

Sakuraba Neku

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Sora/Riku/Kairi should have been the trio to take down Xehanort instead of Sora/Donald/Goofy.

The way the destiny islands trio have been written until now is bad enough to make me question their friendship as a trio, because they barely share moments together and most of the time they are broken down in duos - Sora/Kairi and Sora/Riku.
 

disney233

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Sora/Riku/Kairi should have been the trio to take down Xehanort instead of Sora/Donald/Goofy.

The way the destiny islands trio have been written until now is bad enough to make me question their friendship as a trio, because they barely share moments together and most of the time they are broken down in duos - Sora/Kairi and Sora/Riku.
Honestly should've been this:

KH1 - Sora, Donald, & Goofy.
KH2 - Sora, Riku, & Kairi
KH3 - .....idk. Too many damn characters who want to kill Xehanort, but Sora, Donald, Goofy, Riku, & Kairi comes first since this whole journey started with them. It should've damn well ended with the 5 them.

Would've worked damn well if Kairi earned the Keyblade in KH1, rather than THE DAMN THING GIVEN TO HER LIKE A FUCKING CHRISTMAS SWEATER. And Kairi should've stuck with the group rather than writing her & Mickey off because....gameplay. Kairi should've joined Sora & Riku on the final battle towards Xemnas. Makes sense for the full trio to be there, but instead, they decided to birth the Sora x Riku ship from there.
 

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How about they all throw their keyblades at Xehanort and beat him up! :D
 

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Thematically wise really the ones that should have defeated old man Xehanort should have been TAV, as he was directly responsible for their misery. Especially in the case of Terra. I know they try and do a payoff with that via Terranort being their main antagonist in KH3, but Sora and Xehanort's main connection was just not strong enough to feel like a feud, even when they forced Kairi's death to "motivate" him last minute.

Interestingly all the trios had a main Xehanort antagonist and none of them got that final battle as a group.

TAV with Master Xehanort himself. Instead they battle their secondary antagonist in Vanitas and Terranort but not the old man themselves. At least they got closure with Eraqus.Still it's a little odd they played no role at all in the final clash with Xehanort, when they were hyping them up to return and be a big difference maker. They really weren't sadly. Also Sora takes Terra's spot in the battle for obvious reasons.

RAX with Xemnas. Instead they battle Saix, who to be fair, was a far more personal enemy to the group, then Xemnas, but still Xemnas played with their lives too. They do have a group stand off with Xemnas, so at least they didn't get nothing. But they never battle him and don't even get to be present for his final departing words. Roxas and Xemnas have never touched in battle. Also Sora takes Axel's spot in their Saix battle.

SRK with Ansem SOD. Now this trio never fights together at all. It's always Sora and Riku or Sora with Riku and Mickey. Ansem is the closet thing that Sora, Riku, and Kairi all have together as a personal enemy. Ansem destroyed their island, possessed Riku, turned him against Sora using his jealousy, and wanted to steal Kairi's heart. Even the opening to KH3 implies he is the Destiny trios main Nort. However Ansem is only ever played off as Riku's main antagonist. His connections with Sora and Kairi get weaker with each game, KH2 being the last time he ever had anything antagonistic with Sora.

Still with all that said, I enjoyed Donald and Goofy being with Sora in the final battle. They are Sora's best trio imo.
 

KeybladeLordSora

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Kairi: Gee can't wait to fight with Sora and Riku.

Mickey: Hippity hoppity your spot is my property HUH HA.

Like, this is just a feeling I got, but I keep thinking Kairi was meant to take Mickey's spot in the Nort Court fight. I just...had this feeling that this was supposed to be the case ever since my first playthrough. It always felt like she was supposed to be there, but was instead switched with Mickey.

Also, here's a little something we can all learn.

Never give anyone a teacher whose main trait is being absentminded and forgetful, who also thought that a wonderful method of teaching magic was assaulting you with his psychopathic demon furniture.
 

disney233

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Kairi: Gee can't wait to fight with Sora and Riku.

Mickey: Hippity hoppity your spot is my property HUH HA.

Like, this is just a feeling I got, but I keep thinking Kairi was meant to take Mickey's spot in the Nort Court fight. I just...had this feeling that this was supposed to be the case ever since my first playthrough. It always felt like she was supposed to be there, but was instead switched with Mickey.

Also, here's a little something we can all learn.

Never give anyone a teacher whose main trait is being absentminded and forgetful, who also thought that a wonderful method of teaching magic was assaulting you with his psychopathic demon furniture.
And chucking a damn storybook of Winnie the Pooh. That STILL gets me pissed. Merlin's a damn powerful wizard, yet the only reason he exists in this game is to chuck Pooh at the 1st person he sees.
 

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Ventus and Roxas looking exactly like each other is unnecessary confusing.
Ventus should have black hair like Vanitas has, which is enough to make him easily distinguishable from Sora.
 

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Ventus and Roxas looking exactly like each other is unnecessary confusing.
Ventus should have black hair like Vanitas has, which is enough to make him easily distinguishable from Sora.
Doesn't answer why the hell Vanitas looks AND almost EXACTLY like Sora. Like.........Vanitas was made BEFORE Sora, so like...why tf does he have to look like him? They have ABSOLUTELY no relation between each other.
 

KeybladeLordSora

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Doesn't answer why the hell Vanitas looks AND almost EXACTLY like Sora. Like.........Vanitas was made BEFORE Sora, so like...why tf does he have to look like him? They have ABSOLUTELY no relation between each other.
Sora's heart connecting with Ven's to replace the missing piece of it is the cause of Vanitas having Sora's future appearance. Voice-wise, it's just that Sora's JP voice wanted to be a bad guy.

As for Ven and Roxas, they kinda solved their identical faces with 2.5 by editing Roxas's model.
 

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Missed opportunity for KH3 #1836429: Not bringing back the Wight Knight and Gargoyle Heartless and redesigning them to fit with Monsters Inc. (these guys):
924DA4FF-71A3-4A64-B10D-1C02ADB115D9.pngAA88B555-5E7B-459C-B328-4B3DC7222232.png
 

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Aqua using Rainfell to save Terra and later changing to Stormfall in the next cutscene. It was something as simple as having Aqua summon Stormfall instead.

If we know Stormfall is in the 2FM cutscene why even bother showing Rainfell this late in the game?

KH 3 has something similar with Terra having a different keyblade than Lingering Will.
 
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