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AdrianXXII

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KH3: Ansem's data who?

But really, KH3 just ruins all of the careful story building Nomura had made over the years. I know it is because he was just absolutely bored with his own story and eager to introduce new content, but a writer can't create all of this buildup and then just suddenly drop all of it with rushed conclusions.

There are so many of these moments in the series where we get this really good lead-up to something and then KH3 just ignores it for its own nonsense.

Definitely the build up to Sora finding out about having Ven's heart was absolutely wasted. It should have been a better moment, something more personal. It would have made more sense for Riku to be the one to guide Sora to this conclusion since it was originally Riku that guided Sora to even connect to Ven when he was dying again in BBS.

Mickey and Riku should have come to this conclusion. It should have been meaningful, and Sora meeting Ven for the first time in person should have also been a big moment.

Roxas...lol I'll never not be upset about Roxas. KH3 likes to pontificate on how Sora really wants to find and save Roxas, but it doesn't matter. It's resolved off-screen by characters we don't even give two shits about. Sora has absolutely no role in bringing Roxas back besides being in the right place at the right time. Roxas' heart just shoots out. Why was that even possible when it was such a big deal to free Ven's heart? How did Xion's heart leave Sora's body so easily? WHEN?
Yeah, this is probably the biggest grip I have with KH3. It not only does it ignore the plot for most of the game, but also sidesteps a lot of plot points and set up done in the game we've been getting in the decade between, with coded and DDD being hit the hardest. Frankly KH3 made coded completely unnecessary seeing nothing learned there seemed to be acknowledged.

Instead of getting proper pay off for the connections established and seeds planted in previous titles we got them making zero proper progress and relearning things us players already knew. Instead of learning of the three hearts inside of Sora, we should have learned about how to retrieve them and been working on that while visiting Worlds.

I probably sound like a broken record, but saving all the plot for the final world and segment of the game just doesn't feel rewarding. Especially in this game, it made everything we waited for feel rushed and not as satisfying as it could have been. Like I personally still enjoyed the Tower Scene and the Trio reunions, but I know they could have done does moments so much better had they spread them out and dedicated time to them.
 

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The general theory as to why Alice was picked over Ariel is because Ariel was still limited to the sea as a mermaid. She didnt become human until KH2.
And WHAT was Ursula's excuse? There is such a thing as MAGIC to either give Ariel legs or simply have her float without legs just like how Ursula can miraculously can. THEY'RE. FUCKING. WIZARDS! Even if they CAN'T 'work their way around it like Ursula' there are still Disney Princesses that existed that could've replaced Alice.

Maid Marian exists.
Pocahontas exists
Mulan exists
FREAKING SALLY & MEG seemed like a better candidate. Keep in mind that people forgot that Eilowy and Kida existed. Now, Kida's doubtful since KH1 was made 2 years after Atlantis. BUT SHE STILL EXISTED, EH!?
 
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disney233

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KH3: Ansem's data who?

But really, KH3 just ruins all of the careful story building Nomura had made over the years. I know it is because he was just absolutely bored with his own story and eager to introduce new content, but a writer can't create all of this buildup and then just suddenly drop all of it with rushed conclusions.

There are so many of these moments in the series where we get this really good lead-up to something and then KH3 just ignores it for its own nonsense.

Definitely the build up to Sora finding out about having Ven's heart was absolutely wasted. It should have been a better moment, something more personal. It would have made more sense for Riku to be the one to guide Sora to this conclusion since it was originally Riku that guided Sora to even connect to Ven when he was dying again in BBS.

Mickey and Riku should have come to this conclusion. It should have been meaningful, and Sora meeting Ven for the first time in person should have also been a big moment.

Roxas...lol I'll never not be upset about Roxas. KH3 likes to pontificate on how Sora really wants to find and save Roxas, but it doesn't matter. It's resolved off-screen by characters we don't even give two shits about. Sora has absolutely no role in bringing Roxas back besides being in the right place at the right time. Roxas' heart just shoots out. Why was that even possible when it was such a big deal to free Ven's heart? How did Xion's heart leave Sora's body so easily? WHEN?
Nomura being bored of his own story is probably going to make a big reflection in the next game. And not in a good way. Next thing you know, he'll x out his own characters, or make an entirely new story that doesn't even have any of the main characters involved. I wouldn't be surprised that getting rid of Sora was his way of showing that he doesn't want everything to be revolved around Sora (HE'S THE ONE THAT MADE THIS MESS OF A GAME LIKE IT.) So many things should've been resolved in the ACTUAL game rather than secluding it to ReMind...like.....bruh. WHY COULDN'T YOU JUST THROW A DAMN BONE AND EXPLAIN HOW THE HELL XION GOT HERE, OR EXPLAIN HOW THE HELL THESE VESSELS WORK! In the 'new' Organization 13 (new my fucking ass it's literally almost half the old one) everyone's either a vessel or a Nort. WHAT IS THE PROCESS OF THIS!? IT MAKES NO SENSE! Nomura made a mess of a final game. Instead of patching up answers we get so many unanswered ones that are given half-assed excuses, or dropped, so he can tell the next game's story instead of the current game's story.

I get it, 'be grateful that we have KH3 already GAD' grateful that a man got bored with a 16 year old story, and when we got to the conclusion of it, it was more than a prep to the next story than a conclusion to the current one?
 

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I completely forgot about this, and yeah, that's actually really bad, lol. Does anyone remember Re: Coded's secret ending, where Mickey bassically deduced where Ven's heart was (which "just leaves Terra", according to Yen Sid in that very scene)? That was supposedly because Mickey finally saw Roxas for the first time and picked up on his physical similarities to Ventus (with them bassically being identical and all), as well as Data Namine mentioning how both Ventus and Sora shared "a very special connection." Both of these things would've been what clued Mickey into the fate of Ventus' heart, hence why he's so sure of where it is by the end of that game. And we know that Mickey recorded down *specifically this information* in his letter to Sora Riku and Kairi, and the scene of them reading it was shown and extended no less than three times across the series. So what gives? Did Mickey not include anything about his conclusions surrounding the potential whereabouts of Ventus' heart in his (surprisingly detailed) letter despite Namine explicitly telling him to do so? Did Riku not put two and two together after reading this and seeing Ventus, Roxas, and Xion in Sora's heart at the end of DDD? Or are we assuming no one told him Ventus looked just like Roxas? Though we are talking about Mickey, so who really knows what he decided to leave out. Either way, Mickey and Yen Sid still should've known at the very least by the time KH3 started, so why was it Vanitas and Ienzo of ALL people that had to "reveal" this information to the protagonist when it's finally time to rescue them? And even then it affects nothing since Sora refused to inform Aqua at the moment of truth (and Ventus would've revealed himself anyway, though it was pretty obvious after all Sora's involuntary outburst about saving someone he admitted to not even remembering), and I still don't fully understand what was going on with Roxas since all of that happened off screen.

Also, I'm kinda dissapointed about what they did with the build up regarding Ansem's data from DDD. I thought, based on his words to Aqua in Blank Points, it would've been used to help restore those hearts within him, not just reaffirm something we already know. In reality, the pre existing data saved of Roxas on the digital Twilight Town (data that we didn't even know existed up until it was brought up) did more for the actual process of restoring Sora's Nobody than the data from DDD did.
Yea that is something that has bugged me throughout the series is how dumb Nomura writes the heroes of the stories compared to the villains. I am fine with Sora being an idiot because he is just a kid thrown into this situation but it's just jarring the lack of intelligence shown by the heroes. In almost every game it's the bad game has a plan, the heroes don't figure out what the plan is by themselves until the villain spills the bean and then the problem is solved by using a key to beat the shit out of the bad guy.

Like in DDD the apparent smart dude Yen Sid got tricked by the Xehanort crew and it almost cost Sora his life (or w/e). I am fine with Sora getting hoodwinked in COM by Marly and Larxene and him not figuring out on his own that his memories were fake but Yen Sid being tricked? Idk just makes them look bad. I am not even going to touch on what you did about it took everyone so long to figure out the Sora/Roxas/Ven thing or heck that SDG did not remember in early part of KH2 that Sora was a heartless therefore he should have a nobody and that nobody can be why he is being called Roxas.

Like in KH3 did the heroes have a plan? They went to the keyblade graveyard for the fight of their lives and just winged it. Like they decided we will figure it out when we get there when they had a whole night to think of something.
 

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Yeah, this is probably the biggest grip I have with KH3. It not only does it ignore the plot for most of the game, but also sidesteps a lot of plot points and set up done in the game we've been getting in the decade between, with coded and DDD being hit the hardest. Frankly KH3 made coded completely unnecessary seeing nothing learned there seemed to be acknowledged.

Instead of getting proper pay off for the connections established and seeds planted in previous titles we got them making zero proper progress and relearning things us players already knew. Instead of learning of the three hearts inside of Sora, we should have learned about how to retrieve them and been working on that while visiting Worlds.

I probably sound like a broken record, but saving all the plot for the final world and segment of the game just doesn't feel rewarding. Especially in this game, it made everything we waited for feel rushed and not as satisfying as it could have been. Like I personally still enjoyed the Tower Scene and the Trio reunions, but I know they could have done does moments so much better had they spread them out and dedicated time to them.
This! As someone who actually doesn't mind Coded (It's a guilty pleasure) KH3 robs it of what little importance it had, and makes several points in DDD wasted. We have Mickey physically see Namine, Roxas, Xion, Aqua, Terra, and Ventus in the scene of the people still hurting, Axel too but he solves himself. Then you have Riku in Sora's heart meeting Roxas, Ventus, and Xion. So why is everyone shocked when we learn that Sora has three hearts in him? And why are they trying to keep the identities a secret when previous games already confirmed who they are and at least two characters (Mickey and Riku) actually saw and spoke with them? Coded is meaningless now when it actually served a purpose of Mickey seeing the "hurt" people and telling the others. And it just makes Mickey look even worse now. How hard is it to convey to everyone that there are two Roxas's and a dark Kairi in Sora?

Another question I wanna ask. So Ienzo gets the empty vessel from Demyx and doesn't call Sora that he has a vessel for Roxas? Sora now has "the power of waking" that he just used on Ventus. Shouldn't the next step for him be using that power to put Roxas's heart in the vessel and bring him back like he originally wanted to? They could have had Roxas from the start at Keyblade Graveyard. Yes, I'm being salty about Roxas's lack of screen time because the minute Sora got "the power of waking" he should have tried it to help Roxas and Namine. But of course everyone's just ignored until the finale.

Also when Sora dies, why didn't Roxas or Xion's appear in Final World? Namine does when Kairi dies, so why don't Roxas and Xion, who are supposedly in Sora appear there too? Inconsistent!
 

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Yea that is something that has bugged me throughout the series is how dumb Nomura writes the heroes of the stories compared to the villains. I am fine with Sora being an idiot because he is just a kid thrown into this situation but it's just jarring the lack of intelligence shown by the heroes. In almost every game it's the bad game has a plan, the heroes don't figure out what the plan is by themselves until the villain spills the bean and then the problem is solved by using a key to beat the shit out of the bad guy.

Like in DDD the apparent smart dude Yen Sid got tricked by the Xehanort crew and it almost cost Sora his life (or w/e). I am fine with Sora getting hoodwinked in COM by Marly and Larxene and him not figuring out on his own that his memories were fake but Yen Sid being tricked? Idk just makes them look bad. I am not even going to touch on what you did about it took everyone so long to figure out the Sora/Roxas/Ven thing or heck that SDG did not remember in early part of KH2 that Sora was a heartless therefore he should have a nobody and that nobody can be why he is being called Roxas.

Like in KH3 did the heroes have a plan? They went to the keyblade graveyard for the fight of their lives and just winged it. Like they decided we will figure it out when we get there when they had a whole night to think of something.
Did I mention how much I LOATHE Terra? It's reasons like this...as to why I completely despise Terra and how DISGUSTINGLY easy he's so manipulated. Not from Xehanort but by LITERALLY every fucking person WHO LITERALLY SPELLS EVIL. Until someone had to fucking spoon-feed to him that he was tricked.
 

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Also when Sora dies, why didn't Roxas or Xion's appear in Final World? Namine does when Kairi dies, so why don't Roxas and Xion, who are supposedly in Sora appear there too? Inconsistent!
My best guess is that they died with no regrets like the others (Hahahaha that explanation is still bullshit to me) and so their hearts passed on.

Namine was the only one whose heart wouldn’t let go cuz.........uh......she felt really bad about not being able to fix things.
 

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This! As someone who actually doesn't mind Coded (It's a guilty pleasure) KH3 robs it of what little importance it had, and makes several points in DDD wasted. We have Mickey physically see Namine, Roxas, Xion, Aqua, Terra, and Ventus in the scene of the people still hurting, Axel too but he solves himself. Then you have Riku in Sora's heart meeting Roxas, Ventus, and Xion. So why is everyone shocked when we learn that Sora has three hearts in him? And why are they trying to keep the identities a secret when previous games already confirmed who they are and at least two characters (Mickey and Riku) actually saw and spoke with them? Coded is meaningless now when it actually served a purpose of Mickey seeing the "hurt" people and telling the others. And it just makes Mickey look even worse now. How hard is it to convey to everyone that there are two Roxas's and a dark Kairi in Sora?

Another question I wanna ask. So Ienzo gets the empty vessel from Demyx and doesn't call Sora that he has a vessel for Roxas? Sora now has "the power of waking" that he just used on Ventus. Shouldn't the next step for him be using that power to put Roxas's heart in the vessel and bring him back like he originally wanted to? They could have had Roxas from the start at Keyblade Graveyard. Yes, I'm being salty about Roxas's lack of screen time because the minute Sora got "the power of waking" he should have tried it to help Roxas and Namine. But of course everyone's just ignored until the finale.

Also when Sora dies, why didn't Roxas or Xion's appear in Final World? Namine does when Kairi dies, so why don't Roxas and Xion, who are supposedly in Sora appear there too? Inconsistent!
I did not play coded just watch the movie but I believe they were trying to convey that if Sora knew of all the hurt inside him it might cause him to get swallowed by it or something. But data Sora accepting Roxas hurt shows that the real Sora could too I think? The problem is that in KH3 wondering if Sora can handle that pain within rarely if ever came up. If Riku/Mickey/Yen Sid had a cutscene where they talked about keeping the secret of Xion/Ven from Sora because they worry what Sora will do with that knowledge (stab himself again to release those hearts). So then at least there is a storyline reason (whether good or bad) why this is kept a secret rather than nobody telling Sora earlier because uh.....they forgot to tell him?

Imagine the interesting story they could have told of Sora having this hurt and debating whether he should kill himself again to free those 3 hearts (you could have a Xehanort plant the seed to Sora that the only way to save them is doing that which of course is a lie). I think you could have had some cool emotional scene between Riku/Kairi/Sora similar to when Ven asked Aqua and Terra to kill him in order to stop MX plan. But instead Sora just sort of saves Ven and Roxas/Xion just pop up without Sora having to do a lot. So the hurt inside Sora that re:Coded beat you over the head with didn't really matter.

On the last point I just found it funny that the story was Kairi saved Sora because of her love for him (or something similar) but she does not save Riku or anyone else. A bit rude of Kairi.

I honestly thought the heaven thing should have either Kairi by herself because she is a princess and it's believable that that gave her special powers to have a body in the final world as opposed Sora just getting one because he is the MC. That plus I think Kairi finally speaking to Namine in that world would have been a lot more emotional because Kairi for all her faults really wanted to save Namine. So having them actually talk would have been awesome.

At the very least it should have been Sora/Kairi teaming up so shippers can be happy and we actually see those 2 interact in the story and fighting together.
 

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My best guess is that they died with no regrets like the others (Hahahaha that explanation is still bullshit to me) and so their hearts passed on.

Namine was the only one whose heart wouldn’t let go cuz.........uh......she felt really bad about not being able to fix things.
Lol. From now on, whenever I get to the "Demon Tide kills everyone" part I'm going to picture Roxas and Xion screaming loudly "I regret nothing!" As Sora's body is destroyed.

I did not play coded just watch the movie but I believe they were trying to convey that if Sora knew of all the hurt inside him it might cause him to get swallowed by it or something. But data Sora accepting Roxas hurt shows that the real Sora could too I think? The problem is that in KH3 wondering if Sora can handle that pain within rarely if ever came up. If Riku/Mickey/Yen Sid had a cutscene where they talked about keeping the secret of Xion/Ven from Sora because they worry what Sora will do with that knowledge (stab himself again to release those hearts). So then at least there is a storyline reason (whether good or bad) why this is kept a secret rather than nobody telling Sora earlier because uh.....they forgot to tell him?

Imagine the interesting story they could have told of Sora having this hurt and debating whether he should kill himself again to free those 3 hearts (you could have a Xehanort plant the seed to Sora that the only way to save them is doing that which of course is a lie). I think you could have had some cool emotional scene between Riku/Kairi/Sora similar to when Ven asked Aqua and Terra to kill him in order to stop MX plan. But instead Sora just sort of saves Ven and Roxas/Xion just pop up without Sora having to do a lot. So the hurt inside Sora that re:Coded beat you over the head with didn't really matter.

On the last point I just found it funny that the story was Kairi saved Sora because of her love for him (or something similar) but she does not save Riku or anyone else. A bit rude of Kairi.

I honestly thought the heaven thing should have either Kairi by herself because she is a princess and it's believable that that gave her special powers to have a body in the final world as opposed Sora just getting one because he is the MC. That plus I think Kairi finally speaking to Namine in that world would have been a lot more emotional because Kairi for all her faults really wanted to save Namine. So having them actually talk would have been awesome.

At the very least it should have been Sora/Kairi teaming up so shippers can be happy and we actually see those 2 interact in the story and fighting together.
Anything would have been better then just ignoring the hearts until it was time to not ignore them. Compare it to KH1, when Sora had Kairi's heart in him but didn't know about it until Hollow Bastion. Why got several Kairi visions all through KH1, that hinted at it but didn't know. And as soon as Sora knew about it he tried to set her free. Not the case in KH3. He knew about Roxas, and learns about Ventus only to ignore it until Disney time was over.
 

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Did I mention how much I LOATHE Terra? It's reasons like this...as to why I completely despise Terra and how DISGUSTINGLY easy he's so manipulated. Not from Xehanort but by LITERALLY every fucking person WHO LITERALLY SPELLS EVIL. Until someone had to fucking spoon-feed to him that he was tricked.
I don't hate Terra, but I have a hard time not to do, lol. People usually defend him as being naive and "he couldn't know better" and stuff, but honestly, dude's about 19 years old and agrees to beat up 10 year olds with a keysword because some shady guy with a hook for his hand claims they steal his shit. And he does this without ever questioning it - this is what bothers me the most. If there's was some kind of actual struggle with that guy that goes beyond "oh no, it happened again and people are mad at me, now I'm mad at them", I'd find him much more relatable, but this way it's basically a bulky dude who listens to one side of a story and goes to act based on that. Up to this day, I can't figure out much more about his character as displayed in BBS than "sullen, brooding and gullible".

Oh, speaking of that, I dislike Ventus. A lot. More than Terra. Despite being much more mature at age eleven than with .. fifteen or what, he's so annoyingly childish "I wanna know now!" and really rude. HE was the one who grew distrust in Terra in the first place, so much that a random stranger he had never met could convince him that Terra would never be the same again, then he distrusts him in the first world he hears his name (Aqua had to remind him not to listen to Maleficent) just to be a total douche to Aqua when she actually tries to talk to Terra. Damn hypocrite.

Aaand a Ventus nitpick:
I will probably never get that revival scene in KH3. Riku notices that they're back, but the other ones kinda notice it or don't, but do the same stupid thing again. Like .. was the revival amnesia selective in who gets to remember and who doesn't?
Also: Damn, Ventus. Couldn't SOMEONE have given that guy a little briefing about "if we meet Terra, it's probably NOT Terra, so don't rush into him headlong"? What were the damn phones for? It was actually something they MUST have known:
1. Aqua was the last person to actually see Terra.
=> 2. Terra hasn't been seen afterwards.
=> 3. We have reasons to believe he's with Xehanort.
=> 4. We shouldn't be stupid.

I mean, I get that they wanted to delay their adventure talk to when Terra returns, but hey, if you are an unbreakable connection trio, wouldn't you probably ask "where's our last member?" and maybe make plans how to approach him if we were to see him? It pisses me off so much that Ventus immediately gets mad at Aqua again when she pulls him away from Terra, in such a rude "What gives, Aqua?" fashion, as if she is to blame here. UGH.
 

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Deep Space is the one world where he causes real chaos for her to cleanup with him freeing criminals from prison.
 

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Roxas...lol I'll never not be upset about Roxas. KH3 likes to pontificate on how Sora really wants to find and save Roxas, but it doesn't matter. It's resolved off-screen by characters we don't even give two shits about. Sora has absolutely no role in bringing Roxas back besides being in the right place at the right time. Roxas' heart just shoots out. Why was that even possible when it was such a big deal to free Ven's heart? How did Xion's heart leave Sora's body so easily? WHEN?
THIS. Not to mention that after all of that talk about saving Roxas, the two barely exchange a WORD to each other when he finally comes back. Why? The most we get is Sora saying "Roxas!" and the other not even looking him in the eye (I get he was trying to be cool but.... that was it!), and all Roxas has to say to his friends- the people that he risked life and limb to be with again (one of which just came back from oblivion out of absolutely no where) is "My turn." ... Really? All these years, all that build up, for this?
Imagine the interesting story they could have told of Sora having this hurt and debating whether he should kill himself again to free those 3 hearts (you could have a Xehanort plant the seed to Sora that the only way to save them is doing that which of course is a lie).
No joke, these were the kinds of theory's I was posting on this forum back when they were still releasing the KH3 trailers, so you can imagine how bummed out I was when we didn't even get that. I mean, come on Nomura, the plot writes itself, lol.

Also: Damn, Ventus. Couldn't SOMEONE have given that guy a little briefing about "if we meet Terra, it's probably NOT Terra, so don't rush into him headlong"? What were the damn phones for? It was actually something they MUST have known:
1. Aqua was the last person to actually see Terra.
=> 2. Terra hasn't been seen afterwards.
=> 3. We have reasons to believe he's with Xehanort.
=> 4. We shouldn't be stupid.
LOL, make no mistake my friend, they knew, they just didn't care. Forget the phones (that were introduced for that express purpose), Riku flat out said that Terra was with the organization in front of Ventus' face, which Ventus himself acknowledged. The only reason Ven still ran up to him (TWICE no less) was because they really were THAT stupid, lmao. Which makes sense, because none of that scene (referring to the infamous Terranort one) could've happened if they weren't.

 
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THIS. Not to mention that after all of that talk about saving Roxas, the two barely exchange a WORD to each other when he finally comes back. Why? The most we get is Sora saying "Roxas!" and the other not even looking him in the eye (I get he was trying to be cool but.... that was it!), and all Roxas has to say to his friends- that he risked life and limb to save (one of which came back from oblivion out of absolutely no where) is "My turn." ... Really? All these years, all that build up, for this?
Yeah, its crazy too because Roxas and Sora talk more in KH3D than they do in KH3. What I really think should have happened was frequent conversations with the hearts inside of Sora throughout KH3 to make their wants and desires known. The last time Roxas and Sora chatted, Roxas didn't seem like he was in a hurry to be his own person. We could have seen conversations between them about how Roxas slowly comes to admit he wants to be his own person after giving up that desire in KH2.

We could have seen Sora speak to Xion so at least he'd know something about her haha

And with Ven...I get the game wanted to go with this "Sora doesn't realize Ven is speaking through Sora" thing, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have reconnected since Ven's heart had finally woken up. Its like the game forgot Sora has never had a problem looking into his heart.

Also how and why does Roxas have two Keyblade still? And why are they Oblivion and Oathkeeper, two Keyblades that have absolutely nothing to do with him? Are we going to have to reason that "Roxas is still connected to Sora" or something because that bs ain't gonna fly with me.
 

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Yeah, character interactions, man.
It might be the biggest gripe I have. Not fulfilling those means seriously not understanding why so many people were into this story for so many years. We wanted to see these good guys and gals interacting, not in their small original groups but between one another.

The reason why I entered here was a small nitpick, so might as well throw it here: forget Lea and Roxas and Ven looking at each other, I wanted to see Aqua's reaction to another blonde kid identical to Ventus of which she should have no knowledge about.

Another Nitpick I have, why after the events of Re:Coded and DDD did it take Sora and co so long to piece together who the three hearts in Sora were. I thought they already knew Ven and Roxas where in Sora's heart and that Riku would have figured out by the mention of a third heart that it'd be the third person he met when he dived into Sora's heart.
Literally Mickey says in Re:Coded's secret movie that they finally figured out where Ven's heart is.
What, am I supposed to believe that he did figure it out but didn't bother to inform Sora YET AGAIN? Like, what would be the point?
It's like Nomura wanted to give small hints and clues in the secret endings but ALSO wanted those very same notions to come off as a surprise in the big game.
I've lost count of how many times I severely underestimated what Sora and Riku ignored about the entire event they're in.

I'd be really curious to know just how much did Sora understood about Master Xehanort, other than "he bad guy, must defeat".

KH3: Ansem's data who?

But really, KH3 just ruins all of the careful story building Nomura had made over the years. I know it is because he was just absolutely bored with his own story and eager to introduce new content, but a writer can't create all of this buildup and then just suddenly drop all of it with rushed conclusions.

There are so many of these moments in the series where we get this really good lead-up to something and then KH3 just ignores it for its own nonsense.

Definitely the build up to Sora finding out about having Ven's heart was absolutely wasted. It should have been a better moment, something more personal. It would have made more sense for Riku to be the one to guide Sora to this conclusion since it was originally Riku that guided Sora to even connect to Ven when he was dying again in BBS.

Mickey and Riku should have come to this conclusion. It should have been meaningful, and Sora meeting Ven for the first time in person should have also been a big moment.

Roxas...lol I'll never not be upset about Roxas. KH3 likes to pontificate on how Sora really wants to find and save Roxas, but it doesn't matter. It's resolved off-screen by characters we don't even give two shits about. Sora has absolutely no role in bringing Roxas back besides being in the right place at the right time. Roxas' heart just shoots out. Why was that even possible when it was such a big deal to free Ven's heart? How did Xion's heart leave Sora's body so easily? WHEN?
I'm still amazed that among all things, they decided to make Joshua's explanations about Portals relevant. I don't know how many people could've predicted that.

And really, I was thinking about it the other day, what was ultimately the point about Ansem's Data? What did it have? I only seem to remember it mentioned the hearts, and then the discussion immediately switched to Vexen and the Replicas.

Yo, same hat. My depression post-KH3 has yet to go away. I try to focus it into something productive like writing, but I just cycle between anger and disappointment.

What sucks is that some days I really do like KH3, or something said by some fans reminds me that there were some parts of KH3 that brightened up my day when I was playing and I feel okay about the game...then I remember everything I hated and that well of joy just dries up.
Yeah, that's a carousel I know all too well.
I feel like I might have lucked out though because my big fanfiction I've been working on is set in the future, so every time I feel the gripes with KH III resurfacing I just go and write a better future, almost like it's some sort of emotional "revenge".

Jump onto my story fellas, where Riku doesn't have plastic car keys, gets things done, Vanitas is around, and conflicts are more grounded.
Ehr... is what I'd say if it wasn't written in Italian. -.-'



I don't hate Terra, but I have a hard time not to do, lol. People usually defend him as being naive and "he couldn't know better" and stuff, but honestly, dude's about 19 years old and agrees to beat up 10 year olds with a keysword because some shady guy with a hook for his hand claims they steal his shit. And he does this without ever questioning it - this is what bothers me the most. If there's was some kind of actual struggle with that guy that goes beyond "oh no, it happened again and people are mad at me, now I'm mad at them", I'd find him much more relatable, but this way it's basically a bulky dude who listens to one side of a story and goes to act based on that. Up to this day, I can't figure out much more about his character as displayed in BBS than "sullen, brooding and gullible".
I can defend Terra believing Xehanort: you'd have a hard time second-guessing one who is considered a veteran Master, especially immediately after failing the exam yourself. If anything, even if some parts of his reasoning felt off to him, Terra would probably think that HE didn't understand it well enough.
But yeah, I can't honestly defend Terra from being manipulated by the Disney villains.
Or abandoning Snowhite in a world where he KNEW there Unversed roaming around just to go and flex all over the Queen.

Oh, speaking of that, I dislike Ventus. A lot. More than Terra. Despite being much more mature at age eleven than with .. fifteen or what, he's so annoyingly childish "I wanna know now!" and really rude. HE was the one who grew distrust in Terra in the first place, so much that a random stranger he had never met could convince him that Terra would never be the same again, then he distrusts him in the first world he hears his name (Aqua had to remind him not to listen to Maleficent) just to be a total douche to Aqua when she actually tries to talk to Terra. Damn hypocrite.
Ven's arc in BbS makes no sense. I still wonder if what Vanitas says to him about Terra somehow makes more sense in Japanese, because MAN it so does not in English.
And if the first half is frustrating, the second is infuriating. Ven found Terra, he still believes that they're friends and can overcome anything, but does he comes back home?
No! Let's go around and frolick and mess with characters and order, even if you're a supposed runaway and you know it. Clearly nothing will go wrong.

Terra was dumb and gullible, Aqua was a glorified janitor, but Ven was literally out there only so that the plot could happen.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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I have a nitpick...

View attachment 11808

Uhhhhhhhh......no you haven't.
Castle of Dreams: Terra being a good boy
Dwarf Woodlands: No Terra
Enchanted Dominion: Told by a villain that Terra has been a bad boy

Aqua's conclusion: Totally saw and experience Terra doing horrible things everywhere.

Deep Space is the one world where he causes real chaos for her to cleanup with him freeing criminals from prison.
Aqua had no idea Terra freed any criminals. All she knows is that he was being a nice guy to Stitch.
 

Zettaflare

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Yeah, its crazy too because Roxas and Sora talk more in KH3D than they do in KH3. What I really think should have happened was frequent conversations with the hearts inside of Sora throughout KH3 to make their wants and desires known. The last time Roxas and Sora chatted, Roxas didn't seem like he was in a hurry to be his own person. We could have seen conversations between them about how Roxas slowly comes to admit he wants to be his own person after giving up that desire in KH2.

We could have seen Sora speak to Xion so at least he'd know something about her haha

And with Ven...I get the game wanted to go with this "Sora doesn't realize Ven is speaking through Sora" thing, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have reconnected since Ven's heart had finally woken up. Its like the game forgot Sora has never had a problem looking into his heart.

Also how and why does Roxas have two Keyblade still? And why are they Oblivion and Oathkeeper, two Keyblades that have absolutely nothing to do with him? Are we going to have to reason that "Roxas is still connected to Sora" or something because that bs ain't gonna fly with me.
Honestly I would have liked Roxas to get a Keyblade that let him split it into two separate ones. That could have let him keep his signature Dual wielding without retconning past rules
 

SweetYetSalty

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Yeah, its crazy too because Roxas and Sora talk more in KH3D than they do in KH3. What I really think should have happened was frequent conversations with the hearts inside of Sora throughout KH3 to make their wants and desires known. The last time Roxas and Sora chatted, Roxas didn't seem like he was in a hurry to be his own person. We could have seen conversations between them about how Roxas slowly comes to admit he wants to be his own person after giving up that desire in KH2.

We could have seen Sora speak to Xion so at least he'd know something about her haha

And with Ven...I get the game wanted to go with this "Sora doesn't realize Ven is speaking through Sora" thing, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have reconnected since Ven's heart had finally woken up. Its like the game forgot Sora has never had a problem looking into his heart.

Also how and why does Roxas have two Keyblade still? And why are they Oblivion and Oathkeeper, two Keyblades that have absolutely nothing to do with him? Are we going to have to reason that "Roxas is still connected to Sora" or something because that bs ain't gonna fly with me.
I actually thought that was how Roxas, Ventus, and Xion were going to get screentime with Sora speaking/feeling each of them and slowly start showing Keyblade Master traits and learning to master his heart the way Xehanort has with his other selves. Even Riku can freely feel and speak with Repliku in his heart and he hasn't had him nearly as long as Sora's heart passengers.
 

Twilight Lumiair

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I actually thought that was how Roxas, Ventus, and Xion were going to get screentime with Sora speaking/feeling each of them and slowly start showing Keyblade Master traits and learning to master his heart the way Xehanort has with his other selves. Even Riku can freely feel and speak with Repliku in his heart and he hasn't had him nearly as long as Sora's heart passengers.
Aw, that's a good point... Now correct me if I'm wrong, but did Nomura not say in early KH3 interviews that Sora was already a Master by the time he learned keyblade transformations in KH3? Whatever happened to that? Cause naming Sora Master was never even mentioned during the actual game, and I honestly don't remember Yen Sid considering it either.

This also ties back to my issue with the game never explaining how Sora gained access to Keyblade Transformations, Form Changes (but NOT drive forms), and Attraction Flow in the first place. Aqua, Terra, and Ventus had to have years of traditional training from a True Keyblade Master at an ancient training ground in order to gain access to those upper echelon abilities, and yet Sora gets probably one of the most impressive handed to him on a silver platter?? Huh? What, am I supposed to believe it was his "special garments" again? Even his duel wielding in KH2 wasn't a power that solely came from his clothing though it did help guide the process), it was a unique phenomenon that came about as a result of him housing another keyblade wielder's heart. It was, at the time, already innate to him. So what's the explanation for the Form changes, Keyblade Transformations, and Attraction Flow? How did even learn shotlocks when NONE of his active ally's ever knew the ability (BBS trio was still out of play by the time he gained that skill)? They went out of their way to show that even Riku (a Master) didn't have access to any of those powers in KH3, so what gives? And remember, Sora has had to lose and regain his powers numerous times across the series, including relearning abilities such as Ragnarock (which functions somewhat similar to a shotlock), so what exactly is the factor that elevated him from being called weaker than Pete and Maleficent (also implied to be weaker than Hades) to essentially being Master level within the span of a single game? Is he just that gifted? A true prodigy with adaptation and power growth at a level eclipses every other protagonist around him? I thought he was supposed to be viewed as an "underdog"/"regular kid." You can't have both Nomura!

And if the answer is really just because of his garments, if they're THAT much of an equalizer, then why not make that kind of clothing for EVERYONE? You had so much time to prepare for this between the length of DDD and KH3, and you're telling me one set was all you could manage (and I'm talking the full Sora package here, not the darkness resistant clothing Riku, Mickey, Lea, and Kairi wore, because even Aqua didn't need her armor to weather the RoD till she was thrown into the abyss)? I mean heck, it's the three fairies making this stuff right? Isn't Yen Sid's magic vastly superior to theirs? Could he not create them himself in half the time (while adding in all those additional benefits), or at the very least assist them in doing so (I mean, look at how quickly he was able to forge both Riku and Mickey new keyblades and "power them up")? Actually, now that I think about it, the three good fairies made Sora's KH2 clothing in like, a few seconds after they stopped bickering, so it shouldn't even take them that long. In fact, time shouldn't even be an issue in the first place because Merlin has access to a dimension where time literally isn't a factor! You guys have all these incredibly powerful tools, and no drawbacks or incentives not to use them. So use them. If you did, maybe you wouldn't get your asses kicked so often.
 

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THIS. Not to mention that after all of that talk about saving Roxas, the two barely exchange a WORD to each other when he finally comes back. Why? The most we get is Sora saying "Roxas!" and the other not even looking him in the eye (I get he was trying to be cool but.... that was it!), and all Roxas has to say to his friends- the people that he risked life and limb to be with again (one of which just came back from oblivion out of absolutely no where) is "My turn." ... Really? All these years, all that build up, for this?

No joke, these were the kinds of theory's I was posting on this forum back when they were still releasing the KH3 trailers, so you can imagine how bummed out I was when we didn't even get that. I mean, come on Nomura, the plot writes itself, lol.


LOL, make no mistake my friend, they knew, they just didn't care. Forget the phones (that were introduced for that express purpose), Riku flat out said that Terra was with the organization in front of Ventus' face, which Ventus himself acknowledged. The only reason Ven still ran up to him (TWICE no less) was because they really were THAT stupid, lmao. Which makes sense, because none of that scene (referring to the infamous Terranort one) could've happened if they weren't.

Oh gosh, right, they even tell him. It's so unbelievably ridiculous, I totally forgot about that. I can't rewatch that tower scene, the stiff faces make me uncomfortable, lol. Terranort was the high point of "we are being dumb for the sake of the plot" so Sora can abuse a power he didn't know he had until one day ago (that still goes over my mind).

And yeah, Roxas was disappointed .. everything about Roxas in this game doesn't make any sense.
- The fact that Sora still doesn't know about the hearts inside him. I don't know why they played it as this big big mystery when everyone in the audience just rolled their eyes over "how are these people so dumb?". Mickey has seen Roxas. Roxas looks like Ventus. Ventus is gone. WHERE MIGHT HE BE. Riku has seen Xion - I can forgive that. Maybe he thought she was an illusion or something, but the other two hearts, come on, you should know.
Nearly every problem in this game is caused by the good guys not talking to each other not because the villain is so smart.

-
Sora wants to find Roxas. Then he doesn't and looks for the power of waking. It's hard to get Roxas out, complicated box memories, yadda yadda. Oh no, it's just fine because friendship made him magically appear where he is needed for no apparent reason even though his body is elsewhere and the "he needed the friendship incentive to wake up" is later disproved when Naminé wakes up in the circle of her kidnappers and abusers. Wow.
 
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