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MATGSY

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If their reasoning is that Sora is weak this time, it's a very stupid reason. I mean, he fights against the Demon Wave and does just fine. But ehh
He defeated four titans in the 1st world & afterwards they were still talking about how he hasn't regained his strength. Like Goddamn Square, do you really need to treat the Disney villains as being that irrelevant?
 

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I hated that everyone constantly picks on Sora. Come on, it's not even funny anymore when he's constantly being told he's weak by his comrades and friends. It's rather mean and while I interpreted the SDG relationship in a bickering way, sometimes it really went overboard.
I think I complained about this already a few pages back but I really hated the 'weak underdog' narrative. The game seemed absolutely desperate for the player to believe Sora is weak and in over his head but he fights the Titans fresh from a power reset and none of the other veterans and masters can achieve any goal without his help. So I guess to try and force the idea that Sora is weak the writers had Goofy, Donald, and others maliciously bully Sora at every turn? No one was tricked by this if that's what the writers goals were. All it achieved is making other characters look like jerks. And for me personally the last thing I wanted Kingdom Hearts 3 to focus on is Sora's self-esteem issues, the other characters were hurting so much worse. Recoded and DDD made a big deal about healing the lost ones pain but it just kind of gets handwaved away, let's put all that aside and focus more on how Sora is feeling today, oh no, he's being bullied!!!
 
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Why do they have to keep bringing up that Sora lost all his powers. It's an rpg, isn't starting at level one something we should all expect?

The reason I bring this up is because things are only going to get tougher from here. Sora and co. will have to be stronger than ever, and yet Sora again and again has to start from scratch. It gives off the impression that where he was when he beat Xehanort will be enough to beat the MoM because guess what, he lost all his powers again and has to climb back to where he was.

Sure, I understand, the argument can be made that he or whichever character we're playing as will have to train even harder this time to exceed their previous level of skill, but nevertheless it still keeps a sour taste in my mouth. It's an rpg, I'm not expecting to spam firaga from the start, nor do I need a canonical explanation as to why I can't.

Although that being said, I do recall playing Dragon Ball Z: Buu's Fury as a kid on the GBA and starting at like level 70 (don't quote me on that) with the compromise being that the max level cap was raised to 200 or something (again, not sure of the numbers, but you get the idea).
 
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FudgemintGuardian

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The most aggravating thing about the bullying and acting like Sora can't do squat is not only does he constantly show he's perfectly capable, 90% of the time is the only one doing anything because everyone else decided to be weak, useless morons.

Everyone puts Sora down in hopes of showing off how capable they are like a they're jealous bullies.

There's also how Goofy and Donald would just shove Sora out of the way when Mickey is brought up or appears...



Something else that really bugged me is that we only really got to take selfies with Aqua and she didn't even pose! What about the others hnnngh. I just wish they made Mysterious Tower playable really. The sky is so beautiful! Would've been a great "calm before the storm" moment
I wish the whole gang took a big picture together before heading off to the Keyblade Graveyard.

KH4: 7 Days Versus XIII

Sora wakes up in Shibuya, has no power...again. Because he used all of his heart and depleted his power so he must get back the power o—
—f Baking. Sora, and Ignis must team up to survive the Reapers Game and journey to rescue the 7 Princesses of Tart before Cooking Mama can unleash the Quiche-Blade.
 

VoidGear.

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My biggest nitpick about everyone picking on Sora is the fact that he is right.
"Nuh-uh, you first gotta acquire the power of waking".
eight worlds later
"Ok you still haven't acquired yet but we think it's finally time for some plot, so go help Riku and Mickey anyway!! haha! oh surprise, it worked! maybe we should've trusted you after everything that happened so far"
At the end of it all, the whole "wait till you're ready" felt absolutely pointless, was the biggest waste of time, because neither were the individual plots of the Disney worlds (or rather: the villains that appear in them) properly resolved, nor did Sora really learn anything in them that was useful for the final battle.
It's so utterly stupid.
 

Perkilator

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I just remembered that in Roxas' Twilight Town in KH2, all you do is press Triangle to jump over obstacles to decrease the bag's stamina.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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"May your heart be your guiding key" makes no sense. Keys don't guide. Something like "May your heart be your guiding light" would have made much more sense.

And not exactly a nitpick, but "May you heart be your guiding key" is just an overly poetic way of saying "figure it out yourself."
 

DarkosOverlord

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13 years old me: "Man, Harry and Ron are so dumb! Why do they avoid doing their homeworks, that will only lead to have getting a huge pile to take care of in a few days!"

Me now: "The sea of replies is neverending."

Something else I dislike about KH3 is that we only fight the Organization members at the Keyblade Graveyard (and Land of Departure). Why DIDN‘T we fight Marluxia? Or Vanitas in MI? Or Larxene? It doesn‘t make sense and I don‘t like it.
It really dampened the whole sense of danger and urgency.

So, I guess Maleficent is truly the only one who refers to the 13 vs 7 in KH III as a "Keyblade War", but still it's interesting how KH III is supposed to be almost all the previous villains gathering together to try and bring Doomsday this time for real, and... the general state of things is probably one of the chilliest the saga ever gets.
Like, nothing really happens. The Norts, as stated numerous times, can't actually do anything serious to either the Guardians nor the Princesses so they're just there. Maleficent and Pete are on a goose chase. And even most Disney worlds are facing very "subdued" crises minus a few exceptions.

KH1 was the most hectic scenario, some people kinda miss it but the aim in the game isn't even to PREVENT the Armageddon, the Armageddon has been happening for 9 years straight. Sora is essentially moving in the least remaining worlds, or close to it.

In KH II you had the Organization actually doing a lot of stuff, not to mention Xemnas/The MCP trying to utterly destroy Radiant Garden with a massive army.

KH III feels a Keyblade Order's internal scuffle gotten slightly out of hand.

He defeated four titans in the 1st world & afterwards they were still talking about how he hasn't regained his strength. Like Goddamn Square, do you really need to treat the Disney villains as being that irrelevant?
Donald: "We went to Olympus and nothing really happened."

I think stopping Hades' rebellion was kinda something, especially since he himself keeps stating he wants to rule over the cosmos.
Unless the implication is that Hercules alone was enough to handle things since he has all the powers, which in turn would be like admitting Sora was irrelevant.
Bit of a bummer too, since Hades was always kind of a big deal in his own right and I liked it a lot.

Why do they have to keep bringing up that Sora lost all his powers. It's an rpg, isn't starting at level one something we should all expect?

The reason I bring this up is because things are only going to get tougher from here. Sora and co. will have to be stronger than ever, and yet Sora again and again has to start from scratch. It gives off the impression that where he was when he beat Xehanort will be enough to beat the MoM because guess what, he lost all his powers again and has to climb back to where he was.
On one hand the God of War fanboy in me always likes when a series provides in-canon explanations about why there's a level regression, but KH III handled it sloppily.
"Xehanort got through you and so you've lost all your powers"

I mean, I feel like this is the right thread to ask exactly why? Xehanort didn't even possess Sora, all they did to him in DDD was making him sleepy and having nightmares. Sure enough that's also how KH II handles it, but if so then why didn't Riku suffer from anything? He literally fought Darkness within Darkness, a Twofold Nightmare(™).

Again, I had no problems the other times they did it, but in this one I too did feel like it was a bit unnecessary. Would've been perfectly fine by my book if Sora was still treated like he had all of his ability in the story and was level 1 for gameplay purposes, and him getting levels in KH III meant he was going to be EVEN STRONGER for the battle.

"May your heart be your guiding key" makes no sense. Keys don't guide. Something like "May your heart be your guiding light" would have made much more sense.

And not exactly a nitpick, but "May you heart be your guiding key" is just an overly poetic way of saying "figure it out yourself."
Doesn't "may your heart be your guiding key" kinda implies everything's good as long as you follow your heart, which I'm pretty sure is what Xehanort did all along?
I'm okay with replacing key with light both for it to make sense even to non-Keyblade wielder characters and because light IS ultimately the source of all that is good in the series.

Honestly, I'd go for a more stylish version of "May your heart never lead you astray" or something. Like, don't just do as you see fit hoping your heart is innately good, TRY yourself to be good.
"May your heart be your guiding key" implies that the heart is always good and as long as you follow it everything's fine. I think it has been proven several times that hearts CAN lead you off the path due to your own inexperience or some third party influence. Sora's heart in CoM was his guiding key and it was all a trap.

This over-reliance on this absolutism fits Eraqus and perhaps whatever distorted moral the MoM gave his apprentices, but you'd think Yen Sid would've had better insight by now.

My biggest nitpick about everyone picking on Sora is the fact that he is right.
"Nuh-uh, you first gotta acquire the power of waking".
eight worlds later
"Ok you still haven't acquired yet but we think it's finally time for some plot, so go help Riku and Mickey anyway!! haha! oh surprise, it worked! maybe we should've trusted you after everything that happened so far"
At the end of it all, the whole "wait till you're ready" felt absolutely pointless, was the biggest waste of time, because neither were the individual plots of the Disney worlds (or rather: the villains that appear in them) properly resolved, nor did Sora really learn anything in them that was useful for the final battle.
It's so utterly stupid.
Y U P

What makes it even jarring it's that Yen Sid himself (not to mention Ansem the Wise and Master Xehanort) states pretty early on that Sora operates outside of every preconceived scheme and performs even "miracles" that defy logic, because his heart is so pure and powerful.
That being said, whenever Sora is trying to follow his heart which tells him to go save Aqua, Yen Sid strongly opposes the idea because he needs to follow this (completely and utterly useless and nonsensical) preconceived plan of visiting the Disney worlds.
Like, dude. Why.
 

MATGSY

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Donald: "We went to Olympus and nothing really happened."

I think stopping Hades' rebellion was kinda something, especially since he himself keeps stating he wants to rule over the cosmos.
Unless the implication is that Hercules alone was enough to handle things since he has all the powers, which in turn would be like admitting Sora was irrelevant.
Bit of a bummer too, since Hades was always kind of a big deal in his own right and I liked it a lot.
It is sorta implied that if not for the heartless, OCs, Maleficent, or any other outside force getting involved, the events of each Disney world would be identical to their respective films. Carribean, Corona, & Arendelle prove that with how many straight up recreations of movie scenes they have that Sora's MIA in. Or Monstropolis & Toy Box with being pseudo-sequels where we must infer that the movie plots happened without a hitch (literally so in TB's case, being canonical to the films).

As such, yeah. Herc didn't really need Sora's help in canon for the final battle, just for the heartless attack on Thebes. Of course, this doesn't translate to gameplay where Herc, much like every party member not named Roxas, does shit all for damage. BE nice if Square could find a better way balance gameplay & story more seamlessly.

OK, new nitpick while I was typing that: where was the cyclops?
 

FudgemintGuardian

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I mean, I feel like this is the right thread to ask exactly why? Xehanort didn't even possess Sora, all they did to him in DDD was making him sleepy and having nightmares. Sure enough that's also how KH II handles it,
If Sora has power leakage while sleeping then I'd advise he wear Depends.

but if so then why didn't Riku suffer from anything? He literally fought Darkness within Darkness, a Twofold Nightmare(™).
Well that's quite simple. You see, it's because, um...

Uh...




Again, I had no problems the other times they did it, but in this one I too did feel like it was a bit unnecessary. Would've been perfectly fine by my book if Sora was still treated like he had all of his ability in the story and was level 1 for gameplay purposes, and him getting levels in KH III meant he was going to be EVEN STRONGER for the battle.
But Daaaarkoooos, if Sora didn't lose his power then KH3 would have to advance the plot, and that would just be plain silly.

Doesn't "may your heart be your guiding key" kinda implies everything's good as long as you follow your heart, which I'm pretty sure is what Xehanort did all along?
I don't believe it implies that everything's "good" as long as you follow your heart, but that you should listen to what your heart says. Thinking on it again, a more accurate meaning would be to go with your gut and follow your feelings, don't think about it.

I'm okay with replacing key with light both for it to make sense even to non-Keyblade wielder characters and because light IS ultimately the source of all that is good in the series.

Honestly, I'd go for a more stylish version of "May your heart never lead you astray" or something. Like, don't just do as you see fit hoping your heart is innately good, TRY yourself to be good.
"May your heart be your guiding key" implies that the heart is always good and as long as you follow it everything's fine. I think it has been proven several times that hearts CAN lead you off the path due to your own inexperience or some third party influence. Sora's heart in CoM was his guiding key and it was all a trap.
That's an even better phrase.

This over-reliance on this absolutism fits Eraqus and perhaps whatever distorted moral the MoM gave his apprentices, but you'd think Yen Sid would've had better insight by now.
This is Yen Sid we're talking about here. "Insight" is not part of his vocabulary.

OK, new nitpick while I was typing that: where was the cyclops?
 

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That fight with the Dusks and the Neoshadows would've been a way better time to introduce Rage Form. And Destati would've been a better theme for that battle. Oh, Roxas...wherefore art thy fucks Nomura not giveth about thou?
 

FudgemintGuardian

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A nitpick but a funny one: KH3 not recreating any of the flashbacks to previous games in the new engine save for ONE STILL IMAGE OF VEXEN'S CREEPY FACE!
 

DarkosOverlord

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Where does Jiminy go when Sora is in Atlantica or lion form?

That might be a repeat, so I'll add: people talk a lot about how Donald sounds in KH III and he does sound weird, but honestly I just find Goofy's "Just imagine what Little Chef could wip out with this" and "Oooh boy! Let's see if there's more!"

He gets ALARMINGLY excited.

But Daaaarkoooos, if Sora didn't lose his power then KH3 would have to advance the plot, and that would just be plain silly.
Imagine, having Zeus handing out some godly training, visiting Kairi and Lea or Destiny Island/Radiant Garden to help Riku with the big Cluedo exposition.

The humanity.

Seriously, Zeus' big appearance in Kingdom Hearts was so underwhelming.

I don't believe it implies that everything's "good" as long as you follow your heart, but that you should listen to what your heart says. Thinking on it again, a more accurate meaning would be to go with your gut and follow your feelings, don't think about it.
I guess it stems from the notion that hearts are never wrong and Xehanort wasn't listening to his.
Yeah, come to think of it both in KH II and KH III they literally say "Their heart has decided, we can no longer interfere."
Imagine when/if they meet a supervillain and there's hard proof they're truly following their heart. What do you do then.

Actually thinking of bringing this into the "Darkness is evil" thread, because it might just be the crux of the issue.

This is Yen Sid we're talking about here. "Insight" is not part of his vocabulary.
That's... mh, yeah, that's on me.

A nitpick but a funny one: KH3 not recreating any of the flashbacks to previous games in the new engine save for ONE STILL IMAGE OF VEXEN'S CREEPY FACE!
Nomura: "You all don't get it. It's not that we HAVE to recreate that face. We NEED to recreate that face."
Yasue: "You serious?"
Nomura: "Tai Yasue (co-director of the Kingdom Hearts franchise), I wouldn't even have made a Kingdom Hearts III if not for Vexen's creepy face. A lot rides on this."


Going from this it's hilarious how "canonically" it's like the past was this weird less advanced in how reality itself looked.

"Mickey remember when our graphics wasn't this good?"
"Riku what"
"Yes, when we were more blocky and polygonal and our face expressions weren't as polished"
"Riku are you okay?"
"And remember Terra's sausage fingers? Boy that was embarassing, wouldn't you all agree?"
"Riku what are you saying WHO ARE YOU TALKING TO"

I jest, but then again Timeless River DOES confirm that the past was a 1950s cartoon.
 

Face My Fears

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Sora and Ienzo never mention Tron, even though Ienzo is at Tron's computer and the digitizing thing is always seen while Sora/Ienzo talk.
 

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Yeah, that's kind of weird. And Sora had a real sad experience with a different Tron in DDD, you'd think he'd be extra excited to visit with his old friend and make sure he's doing fine.
 

DarkosOverlord

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It is a bummer. Always liked how Tron was cleverly connected with the main story due to it being inside Ansem's computer, he deserved at least a throwaway line like Ienzo saying Tron was helping them establishing a connection between terminals.

Also whatever happened to Stitch? He was at Radiant Garden, and that was after the worlds reset from KH1 so he couldn't have been called back to his own world.
Like yeah, he's a summon, but where actually is he.

Speaking of summons, the fact that Sora links with all people he knows and then Ralph, a perfect stranger, doesn't sit well with me.
"I'll summon my old friend!"
"Then this other friend!"
"Then the Dream Eaters because we committed so hard on these being popular even if their presence is less and less justified BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE EVERYBODY LOVE THEM AND THEY FIT SO WELL"
"And then I'll summon this one dude I've never seen before. What up dude, let's beat some people up."

I know he always summons characters he doesn't know, but in previous games there were at least a couple. Ralph being the only one is weird.
 

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I figured Stitch might have joined the Restoration Committee. Had Radiant Garden and possibly Hawaii been worlds Sora could have brought Stitch back home to reunite with Lilo.

Would have been nice.
 
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