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FudgemintGuardian

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*dives right in*
You guys have a bad influence on me.


Before drowing in the sea of replies, here's my nit to pick: how did the other Guardians who weren't SDG arrive at the Graveyard?
I guess this is more of a general "How do Riku, Mickey, Lea and Kairi travel, do they abuse Dark Corridors even if they were hinted to be a big no-no?" but for real, Aqua and possibly Ventus don't even have the armor anymore.
I think they should've just added some throwaway lines when you first travel to KG, since it's already there as a mechanic (Sora Donald and Goofy say stuff they don't say ever again during the first attempt) to show everyone was there with them.

Mostly because I like the idea of the Gummiship being packed with people squeezed together in a cartoonish fashion.
I didn't think of it before, but now I'm sad we don't have a scene where they're crammed together in the Gummiship. Considering how this game tried to up the humor you'd think this would have been done.

By the way, remember when Riku and Mickey state that the Realm of Darkness looked different at the beginning of the game?
Yeah, wonder what that was all about. Part of me is inclined to speculate it's foreshadowing for something and we'll see even crazier stuff regarding the RoD in the future... the other part of me remembers Anti-Aqua.
I like to think they just noticed the new game engine.

Yeah, that was pretty weird. My first thought was that this just means the Realm of Darkness is a bit chaotic in nature so changes its layout occasionally.

I get Vanitas showing up when Ven was, but Xemnas could've totally accompanied him, and in fact he should have.
It's so weird that the Norts discover the joys of working together only at the Graveyard, I always hoped that with Master Xehanort at the helm they would've placed more stress on the importance of bonds.
Xemnas had all the reasons to go where Aqua and Ven were, his obession with Castle Oblivion has been stressed out for years, and now we know without Guardian there wasn't any fear of a Terra revival.

You can feel that they just wanted to be done with that part. I mean, as if the absence of a Castle Oblivion dungeon and Land of Departure disappearing from the world map wasn't enough.
It's all a little infuriating honestly. To build up something only to toss it in the dumpster.

Oh, but there was "so much to cover."

Yes. There was just so much. That's why nothing happens until the last 4 hours.

The story should have been filled to the brim with plot. Not constantly put it off while saying "I'll get to it." like a teenager avoiding their school assignment until the last possible minute then complain they weren't given enough time. I understand that the game had productions troubles and I sympathize, but it's clear the main story and original worlds were given a lower priority in favor of bringing in newcomers.

I swear, Olympus is a case of "too good", it raises your expectations by adjusting you to a level you won't find in the other worlds.
Veteran world showing the rookies how it's done!

(WHO. HEALS. ON. TRIANGLE?)


But scratch all of that, the simplest fix for it would've been to make "Maximus racing" and actual minigame that you can revisit for rewards, like Frozen slider, Verum Rex and pretty much all the other stuff. I don't think any of it goes against game design.
^

Except Gothel defeats two Reapers with a stick (maybe it's a relative of that one stick Roxas uses?)
It's been a while since I watched the movie, but wasn't the original scene the Stabbington brothers faking being knocked out by her? Maybe that's what they were going for.

Btw: Belle's elbow >>>>>> Rapunzel's magic hair.
Belle could defeat the entire Organization with just her elbow jab.

I might have more to reply to but that's it for now. lol
 

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If you didn’t laugh so hard at Vanitas being thrown you teared up, I don’t trust you as a person.
I teared up alright, but I wasn't laughing.
(No, I didn't actually cry. But I was in shock about how horrible I felt about it.)

See, we all meme this or that serious character and it's all in good fun, but that's exactly what that is, a parody. Just like I don't want to see Dragon Ball Z Abridged replacing the actual show even if Cell singing Sinatra is mad fun, I don't need to see the supposed villains turned into clowns just for the sake to make some meme. It always seems nice and the right thing to advocate for more in a series, but I'm of the mind that a product shouldn't try to be more than what it is, especially at the wrong time and place.
Pretty much this. Leave it to video editors or comic artists to make scenes ridiculous/funny, but don't put it into a game that pretends to be the finale to a series/saga that, while sometimes plastered with funny elements, actually has a quite serious plot. Hell, if you really have to go and treat the characters that already hardly have any development as bad comic relief, then at least don't do it while/right after said character reveals a super crucial plot development to the main character.
(And, even more importantly: Don't do it after showing that scene in trailers and making it seem anything but funny at all.)

I never saw anyone clamoring that the scene where Saix reveals the Organization plan to Sora needed some fun interlude, and I say Vanitas showing up in Monsters Inc was on the same level: an enemy shows up to deliver heavy revelations aimed to unsettle the hero. I don't think the scene would've been better if Yuna Rikku and Paine sneaked out to Saix, pulled his hood on him and made him fall off the cliff.
Don't give Nomura any ideas!! I'm scared.

I'm less harsh on the Luxord scene because ok, sure, Jack Sparrow moments, those movies have humor like that, but with Vanitas it was one of the balls KH III dropped with his character.
I'm not big on the Luxord scene, but 1) he actually got quite a bit more of a storyline in the respective world than Vanitas showing up RIGHT before it ends (and otherwise only luring in background cutscenes that are highly irrelevant), 2) The scene itself felt...shorter? Like even if you find it weird, it's over relatively quick. For the Vanitas-scene, I kept cringing and cringing for seconds that felt like actual hours. 3) Luxord gets a rather satisfying ending eventually, with how he gives Sora the card and seems to have a better possible life as a better person in sight. Vanitas simply vanishes after "oh, actually I want to be this evil creature that does nothing but destroy, it's my one (1) character trait lol".

I'm almost certain I've made a post in this thread about it already, but this goes hand in hand with Terranort, who first meets up with the heroes in normal clothes, then puts on a black coat to do the power walk with the other Darknesses, then switches back for the fight.
Oh, right, Vanitas loses his coat here again, too, which means he goes through no less than three outfit changes over the course of his...what? Five? Minutes of screentime?
It sucks for both of them, and it's...idk, pointless? Just makes it feel even more like there was more to them than we eventually got (although that goes for many characters).

I wish after this saga the coats will take a huge step back. At this point they seem to exist only for representation value and they present an excuse for not drawing more original outfits which should be Nomura's forte.
The coats have seriously become just as annoying as the amount of keyblades.

I was talking more about his own teleportation that he spams when you fight him.
I'm not accepting that it's only gameplay after witnessing Lingering Will busting out the whip and Ultima Cannon in a cutscene.
On that note:
The inconsistency between gameplay and non-gameplay is starting to get...very pathetic. Mickey's famous "STOPZA" was something I didn't think they could ever conquer, but here we are. Just make up your mind! Can characters do overpowered shit outside of gameplay, yes or no? But pick a side, and don't make them wack again all of a sudden if the plot demands it.
 

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I didn't think of it before, but now I'm sad we don't have a scene where they're crammed together in the Gummiship. Considering how this game tried to up the humor you'd think this would have been done.
I think I'd love overall all the humor more if it involved the other characters and wasn't just the SDG show.
Again: nothing wrong with that on a conceptual level, but SDG was already kinda the only trio with an already established solid basis for fun and japes, so including other people who might've needed it more would've been better.
Especially since the other option was having Roxas and Terra not uttering a single word to anyone else.

I like to think they just noticed the new game engine.
You know what? Considering how meta KH III tries to be, I wouldn't be surprised if that was just it, kinda like the "It's not been that long" when you arrive at Twilight Town.
I would also be totally fine if it was that.

It's all a little infuriating honestly. To build up something only to toss it in the dumpster.

Oh, but there was "so much to cover."

Yes. There was just so much. That's why nothing happens until the last 4 hours.

The story should have been filled to the brim with plot. Not constantly put it off while saying "I'll get to it." like a teenager avoiding their school assignment until the last possible minute then complain they weren't given enough time. I understand that the game had productions troubles and I sympathize, but it's clear the main story and original worlds were given a lower priority in favor of bringing in newcomers.
I sympathize with this both as a disgruntled fan and as a person terribly behind in dealing with his life duties.
I will cut some slack in some regards, especially after reading what was like working with Disney and Pixar. But no one can tell me in some places it wasn't evident there just wasn't any intention of doing things in a caring manner.
Nomura-san, I understand if after years your priorities and interests tend to differ and vary, I changed so much in a few months it's almost unbelievable, but then either don't take almost 10 years to close some cycles or try to change it in a smart manner.

Like with Riku's Keyblade. If you're telling me Nomura was tired of seeing Way to Dawn after all these years, I'd totally buy it. It's a particular design from the early 2000s that could become a chore after a while, so changing it and bringing the whole "this is a dark moniker of Riku's past mistakes" to an end isn't inherently bad.
Doing that by making it break and having Riku and Mickey shrug and laugh at the fact and having Riku TAKING A KEYBLADE FROM YEN SID instead of generating a new one from his heart instead is.

Veteran world showing the rookies how it's done!
Olympus: "You rookies still don't understand what it takes to be a true KH world!"
Monstropolis: "So, what does it take?"
Olympus: "Two things: branching paths! Altering landscape! Interactable npcs!"
Arendelle: "That was more than two."
Olympus: "Listen kid I ain't gots time to deal with math! I had to sacrficie the GAAAMMESSS to bring a living Thebes for the title!"

If YOUR sentient Olympus doesn't talk with Phil's voice (back when he had one), then why are you even invested in the series.

It's been a while since I watched the movie, but wasn't the original scene the Stabbington brothers faking being knocked out by her? Maybe that's what they were going for.
Yes, I can see that and it's fine, but why going through all that trouble to underline how Nobodies are so stronk then? I wouldn't even bring this one up if it happened on different worlds, but that's in the same story!
That's why it's a bit puzzling what KH III decides to focus on.

Don't give Nomura any ideas!! I'm scared.
I'm sure it's fine, KH II isn't a game he's known for going in and rewrite certain things just cause he feels like do- oh, crap.



I'm not big on the Luxord scene, but 1) he actually got quite a bit more of a storyline in the respective world than Vanitas showing up RIGHT before it ends (and otherwise only luring in background cutscenes that are highly irrelevant), 2) The scene itself felt...shorter? Like even if you find it weird, it's over relatively quick. For the Vanitas-scene, I kept cringing and cringing for seconds that felt like actual hours. 3) Luxord gets a rather satisfying ending eventually, with how he gives Sora the card and seems to have a better possible life as a better person in sight. Vanitas simply vanishes after "oh, actually I want to be this evil creature that does nothing but destroy, it's my one (1) character trait lol".
Yeah, also how the two characters are handled overall plays a part in it too.
Like others have suggested, it's not like you can't have comedic scenes with Vanitas, he has potential for subverting expectations that way, but it needed some more finesse to it. Again, just having him showing up after the whole sequence would've improved it.
They needed to go at it with a chisel instead they busted out Hyper Hammer.

On that note:
The inconsistency between gameplay and non-gameplay is starting to get...very pathetic. Mickey's famous "STOPZA" was something I didn't think they could ever conquer, but here we are. Just make up your mind! Can characters do overpowered shit outside of gameplay, yes or no? But pick a side, and don't make them wack again all of a sudden if the plot demands it.
Exactly, it's another case of wanting the cake and eating it too.
I'm fine if the OP stuff is just for game purposes, but then it must be so for every character. Likewise, IF character can canonically do OP stuff then please stop writing things like Aqua trying to stop Fires with her body.
YOU'RE A FRIGGIN' MAGE, GURL!

It’s okay to let yourself have fun and laugh with a Disney anime game about darkness and ice cream, you know.
You know kasey, I'd really appreciate if you could chill with the condescending attitude every time you read something you disagree with.
You keep doing this, your replies are just variations of "If you don't think this way you're wrong" that contribute nothing to the discussion. You wrote a lot of stuff I strongly disagree with, but you don't see me treating you this way. The only time I told you something was about calling playing with a different character a flaw, and even then I tried to build a constructive reply. I didn't just come and say "Playing with a different character is AWESOME and if you don't like it I don't understand on what planet you're living".

I've stated how I'm not anti-humor and telling me that it's okay to have fun seems kinda pointless considering how many posts I've spent on silly what ifs that view this or that Kingdom Hearts character in an ironic situation, in this very thread nonetheless.
"It's okay to have fun you know" is always the weakest reply, especially when it's used to basically prevent people for wanting more care for the heavy moments which are just as important as the funny ones.
In the next game, let's have Luxu in a gorilla suit the entire time. Why, and how does it benefit the story the game's telling? Eh, it's okay to have fun you know, there's ice cream in this series. Ice cream means fun and carefree, you wouldn't want a series with ice cream in it to be drammatic now would you?!
 

kaseykockroach

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It’s kind of hard not to laugh at someone that wants to take this series so seriously!
They’re just funny bad fanfics that somehow got turned into crazy fun games with a big budget. I can’t understand getting frustrated with this series’ writing because it’s consistently been like this since the beginning. KH1 gets points for being blissfully simple though.
 

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Gotta love how the writers couldn’t be buggered to have Xigbar show genuine concern when regarding having to destroy Sora for another vessel if Sora wavers off path.
 

drew0512

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I think that way too many people forget that Xehanort, Vanitas, Luxord (and any character that doesn't come from FF or TWEWY) are Disney characters. There's no dichotomy in a KH game, you're not supposed to put OG characters to a side and silly, filthy Disney characters to the other side. They are all part of the same universe and not only they can, but they should interact, with both "silly" and serious interactions.

There is a giant difference between Vanitas slipping on a banana peel or Luxu going around in a gorilla suit and the actual scene in Monstropolis and I don't think there should even be the need to explain why. The scene in Monstropolis doesn't ridicule Vanitas or doesn't put him on a lower level (ew, the anime bad guy interacts with a silly Disney character). It actually puts Sulley on the same level as Vanitas, as it should be. He's a powerful monster that is perfectly capable of facing Vanitas and Disney movies are filled with similar moments in which villains gets "ridiculed" in a way without becoming less intimidating and menacing and that's because no one categorizes these characters into different groups ("silly" and "serious").

Everyone is free to see Kingdom Hearts as they want and to expect whatever they want from it, but they also need to be aware that by thinking that its characters fit into different categories, they're expecting KH to be something it isn't and, hopefully, won't ever be.
 

DarkosOverlord

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This is what I've been talking about.
I lowkey hate that this belief that "KH is a bad fanfic" has seeped in so much.
What bad fanfic? KH1 was a straight up by-the-book jrpg about light and darkness with just the audacity of putting Disney elements in it. Literally everything else in it was a classic but time-effective archetype of the genre.
And the Disney elements fit especially because they "respected" the main story without being too invasive. It's time for seriousness. It's time for laughter. You need to fear the Heartless? The Heartless are not funny. You need to enjoy Donald and Goofy? Donald and Goofy are being themselves.
It's not that KH1 was "simple", it simply wasn't what you are trying to make this series always being about. Didn't even have a big budget.

The entire reason KH exists was because they were trying to reproduce the success of Mario 64 and Disney was picked out of the belief that it was the only feasible rival to Mario's popularity. It was not because a bunch of people got together on Myspace (or what was "in" in the early 2000s, I wasn't connected back then) and did basically the equivalent of a late night Discord group call about "the wackiest fanfic we could conceive!"

Man, this is exactly what happened to Sonic the Hedgehog. A franchise with some iconic designs and great games devolving into one of the biggest memes on the Internet because it started catering only to a specific audience and that same audience went on clamoring loudly that Sonic was, and has always been, only that specific thing which is what they loved.
I dunno, I think more than a decade of KH memes and shitposting about this or that character have altered y'all perception of the original franchise.

Or rather: the original franchise IS becoming this also because of enabling, and that's why I'm just pulling myself out. Kingdom Hearts is totally becoming what you guys are implying (becoming. That is was always this, I'll never believe) and if you like it than that's what works best, clearly. It's definitely not what has captivated me about the franchise at the beginning.
It's okay to think that I'm an elitist snob because maybe that's what I am.

That's enough vitriol out of me about the matter, we've gone tremendously off-topic and I was having an unprecedented good streak in the forum, so I'd like to return to that.
You want to add anything else on the matter, visitor message or PM me.

It’s kind of hard not to laugh at someone that wants to take this series so seriously!
They’re just funny bad fanfics that somehow got turned into crazy fun games with a big budget. I can’t understand getting frustrated with this series’ writing because it’s consistently been like this since the beginning. KH1 gets points for being blissfully simple though.
What you think is ultimately clear to me and as I've illustrated above I simply disagree with it.
I'm asking for you to respect others' opinion. Admitedly I myself am stepping a little over the line with this last reply, but man if it isn't frustrating to be treated like I'm some kind of tryhard fanboy who just fails to see the greatness into seeing games drowning in incoherency and lol random humor.

I think that way too many people forget that Xehanort, Vanitas, Luxord (and any character that doesn't come from FF or TWEWY) are Disney characters.
Chernabog is a Disney character but there's no funny Chernabog, because it wouldn't fit nor make any sense.
A silly Chernabog CAN exist in some scenario, but was never presented in KH1 or DDD because people knew better.
And I doubt people never complained about that because they forgot he was Disney.

There's no dichotomy in a KH game, you're not supposed to put OG characters to a side and silly, filthy Disney characters to the other side. They are all part of the same universe and not only they can, but they should interact, with both "silly" and serious interactions.
Upon reflection it was a mistake on my part to say "Disney part" when talking about the levity to send my message across.
I should've said something like "funny part", to symbolize that -yet again- I'm not trying to prevent comedy for happening, it just needs to have purpose and apt time and place.

There is a giant difference between Vanitas slipping on a banana peel or Luxu going around in a gorilla suit and the actual scene in Monstropolis and I don't think there should even be the need to explain why.
That is clearly an opinion you're having, easily disproven by this entire discourse that's been going on.

The scene in Monstropolis doesn't ridicule Vanitas or doesn't put him on a lower level
The throwing animation WAS made with the intention of it being ridiculous though. It's not an accident, it cannot not be something that ridiculizes a villain when that's the way they went at it.
And I guess it all boils down to the fact that as I said I don't think Vanitas was always a He-Man villain so this scene fits him, especially when he's been part of some pretty hard-hitting moments in the series.

(ew, the anime bad guy interacts with a silly Disney character).
Again, if you took this as the intended message you didn't read what me or Void said carefully enough.
I'm seeing a few of "Look at these people thinking their characters are too cool for Disney", when we have never expressed anything close to it. I love Disney and I love humor, I love ridiculizing characters.

Guess what, just because I do doesn't mean I'm always okay with it and I want that to happen at every twist and turn.

It actually puts Sulley on the same level as Vanitas, as it should be. He's a powerful monster that is perfectly capable of facing Vanitas
And surprisingly enough, I think it's not us but you who's having a bit of a power fantasy here. If we really wanna talk about feats, which I only had a modicum interest in getting into, Vanitas could've sliced, burn to a crisp, obliterated Sulley in many different ways and with relative ease.
He was emitting an aura that made Donald and Goofy flying away, and as stated him being grabbed doesn't actually means much when he can teleport away of everything. A veteran warrior who, let us not forget that even if KH III kinda did, can summon endless hordes of monsters that respawn as soon as they're defeated.

Thing is, I could've bought this had Sulley done literally anything differently, anything at all. Going full Beast and trying to actually fight him? Holding him in place for something else to be done or even just Sora (Vanitas' only objective) to escape?
Anything.
But the scene devolved into funny nonsense for meme purposes and a global yeeting establishment, and trying to make it pass as a moment for Sulley to look like a glorious hero capable of handling threats is stretching it a lot.

and Disney movies are filled with similar moments in which villains gets "ridiculed" in a way without becoming less intimidating and menacing and that's because no one categorizes these characters into different groups ("silly" and "serious").
Indeed. Then there are also serious moments in which something narratively heavy is happening and nothing disrtubs the scene's composition.
There's a video I won't cite directly due to the author turning out to be controversial and kind of a shitty person, but it highlighted perfectly why Disney had some of the most iconic villains to date: it's because in an era where good characters were the same unimaginative tropes the writers and authors focused on the villains, making them memorable and even menacing for animation's standards.
Maleficent, Jafar, even Clayton: they all had some powerful scenes that underlines how bad they were and made witnessing their defeats matter and be satisfying.

It's not that they didn't have silly moments at all. Hades is another successful villain, but he's a constant jokester with different shades of humor throughout the movie, and had very little scenes that were completely serious, but he had them nonetheless and was more fleshed out.

That's the point Void was making earlier: what makes the Sulley scene even worse is that that's also basically Vanitas' pivotal moment in the game, and it's a complete joke. In Land of Departure, he's basically just an obstacle to get Ven, the real focus of the scene. At the Graveyard, he's just one of the vessels. And his send-off was almost universally considered by far the worst and least fleshed out one.
No one would remember Hades as a villain if he only had the scene at the beginning where everybody is annoyed by him and baby Hercules crushes his hand, and then he came back for the last act to make the deal for Meg's soul.
Build up a good main presence FIRST, then jape as much as you want. And I'll still kinda complain because I didn't like the scene, but I'll me much more subdued to it.

And again: another thing Disney doesn't always do in his best works is building up the hero in response by making a fool of the villain. You can elevate a character without downsizing the other one.
That's why I personally like the Woody vs Xehanort: Woody is shown to be a strong character not afraid of the adversities, without necessarily having Young uncharacteristically making, say, Donald's scared face when he sees Ursula in KH1. Young receives Woody's taunt and responds accordingly, both characters strong in their resolve.

So yeah, another misunderstanding is that I'm trying to seclude characters into sections. Nope. I'm secluding MOMENTS into sections.
That's not seeing what's not there, that's expecting better and more clever writing.

And as I said that's all I'll add here, I feel like at this point I'd just repeat what I've said already.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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It’s kind of hard not to laugh at someone that wants to take this series so seriously!
They’re just funny bad fanfics that somehow got turned into crazy fun games with a big budget. I can’t understand getting frustrated with this series’ writing because it’s consistently been like this since the beginning. KH1 gets points for being blissfully simple though.
Why are you in the nitpick thread? There is literally a Kingdom Hearts Praises thread you made that you can post in. This is meant to be a safe spot where people can share their gripes with the game. Nobody is rejecting the idea that the game is just silly fun times, but maybe you wanna point and laugh at Nomura first for somebody who takes the story seriously before laughing at fans who are literally consuming KH the way he always intended it to be consumed (because he’s the one who told fans to go and make theories, think about the lore, and gives it this self-important feel when he talks about the lore and story in interviews) lol

Like, why do you feel the need to defend a story that is “funny bad fanfic” by putting down negative views of the game? That makes no sense.
 

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Vanitas wasn't the only vessel to get a lack of scenes. Most of the new organization don't get a whole lot of spotlight, including Xehanort himself. Isa only has three scenes in the entire game before the ending.

Having more meetings in the Keyblade Graveyard would have helped. Then we could have scene more interactions like Vanitas and Larxene trading insults
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Olympus narrator: "Hades' previous attempts using Terra, Cloud, and Auron to advance his plans for conquest had failed."

Zack: "Am I a joke to you?"

I was talking more about his own teleportation that he spams when you fight him.
I'm not accepting that it's only gameplay after witnessing Lingering Will busting out the whip and Ultima Cannon in a cutscene.
Vanitas needed to come back immediately, then saying something about not wanting to fight so many people so soon, or that he was still weak after being restored, something like that, and left since we can't have Nort fights in Disney worlds.
Okay, now I get ya. I'm so used to gameplay and story segregation (a whole other nitpick) that it never came to me.

Speaking of Atlantica, I wonder how does Sora cope about switching from dancing and playing around with his animal friends who gained sentience and complex feelings to happily waltzing into Remy's kitchen to start cooking all the different types of fish and animal meat he gained on his journey.

Like, how can he cook fishes and lobsters (which, btw, he caught while still alive and that must usually be cooked relatively early) without thinking about Flounder and Sebastian?

If you aren't sad yet, here's one of apparently my most popular jokes to date.

View attachment 11697
View attachment 11698
View attachment 11699
pfft! XD Though admittedly I'm low-key disappointed we don't cook any duck.


I think I'd love overall all the humor more if it involved the other characters and wasn't just the SDG show.
Again: nothing wrong with that on a conceptual level, but SDG was already kinda the only trio with an already established solid basis for fun and japes, so including other people who might've needed it more would've been better.
Especially since the other option was having Roxas and Terra not uttering a single word to anyone else.



You know what? Considering how meta KH III tries to be, I wouldn't be surprised if that was just it, kinda like the "It's not been that long" when you arrive at Twilight Town.
I would also be totally fine if it was that.



I sympathize with this both as a disgruntled fan and as a person terribly behind in dealing with his life duties.
I will cut some slack in some regards, especially after reading what was like working with Disney and Pixar. But no one can tell me in some places it wasn't evident there just wasn't any intention of doing things in a caring manner.
Nomura-san, I understand if after years your priorities and interests tend to differ and vary, I changed so much in a few months it's almost unbelievable, but then either don't take almost 10 years to close some cycles or try to change it in a smart manner.

Like with Riku's Keyblade. If you're telling me Nomura was tired of seeing Way to Dawn after all these years, I'd totally buy it. It's a particular design from the early 2000s that could become a chore after a while, so changing it and bringing the whole "this is a dark moniker of Riku's past mistakes" to an end isn't inherently bad.
Doing that by making it break and having Riku and Mickey shrug and laugh at the fact and having Riku TAKING A KEYBLADE FROM YEN SID instead of generating a new one from his heart instead is.
^ I can't think of any response so I'll just point in agreement :D


Olympus: "You rookies still don't understand what it takes to be a true KH world!"
Monstropolis: "So, what does it take?"
Olympus: "Two things: branching paths! Altering landscape! Interactable npcs!"
Arendelle: "That was more than two."
Olympus: "Listen kid I ain't gots time to deal with math! I had to sacrficie the GAAAMMESSS to bring a living Thebes for the title!"

If YOUR sentient Olympus doesn't talk with Phil's voice (back when he had one), then why are you even invested in the series.
I did so happen to listen to it in his voice. This was perfect. XD

Vanitas wasn't the only vessel to get a lack of scenes. Most of the new organization don't get a whole lot of spotlight, including Xehanort himself. Isa only has three scenes in the entire game before the ending.

Having more meetings in the Keyblade Graveyard would have helped. Then we could have scene more interactions like Vanitas and Larxene trading insults
Also by having other organization members drop by in the Disney worlds. The Caribbean did this so why not the others?
 
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kaseykockroach

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Kingdom Hearts is at least a less insulting fanfic than Jason Segal's 2011 Muppets, I'll give it that.
 

Muke

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On the topic on the Vanitas-Sully scene, just like Darkos and Void, I disliked it so much. Reasons have been stated.

Something else I dislike about KH3 is that we only fight the Organization members at the Keyblade Graveyard (and Land of Departure). Why DIDN‘T we fight Marluxia? Or Vanitas in MI? Or Larxene? It doesn‘t make sense and I don‘t like it. The 3-on-3 fights were also too chaotic in my opinion, I didn‘t like that choice at all but I can understand why they went with that.

Other than that... what‘s up with text boxes in this game? The box is huge and the text in it is very small. Not good!

Also, yeah, I miss the walking animation!
 

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Oh. The text. That is my biggest gripe of all. I have to sit close to my TV to be able to see it properly, which is not a thing I have to do with past KH games (minus 0.2). What is it with current-gen games having the worlds tiniest text ever? Nobody can read that crap. Give players the option to make the text bigger. Our vision isn't getting any better with age lol
 

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I think part of the reason we didnt fight the organization members in the Disney worlds is because Sora might not have stood a chance against them that early. He was still in the process of regaining his strength. Which is kind of backed up with them getting the jump on him during a various points.

Olympus narrator: "Hades' previous attempts using Terra, Cloud, and Auron to advance his plans for conquest had failed."

Zack: "Am I a joke to you?"

Okay, now I get ya. I'm so used to gameplay and story segregation (a whole other nitpick) that it never came to me.

pfft! XD Though admittedly I'm low-key disappointed we don't cook any duck.


^ I can't think of any response so I'll just point in agreement :D


I did so happen to listen to it in his voice. This was perfect. XD

Also by having other organization members drop by in the Disney worlds. The Caribbean did this so why not the others?
Yeah that's a good point. I was kind of surprised Xigbar didnt pop up in San Fransokyo due to his nobodies being in that world. Him and Dark Riku were paired up together in the KG so it would have made sense
 

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See, we all meme this or that serious character and it's all in good fun, but that's exactly what that is, a parody. Just like I don't want to see Dragon Ball Z Abridged replacing the actual show even if Cell singing Sinatra is mad fun, I don't need to see the supposed villains turned into clowns just for the sake to make some meme. It always seems nice and the right thing to advocate for more in a series, but I'm of the mind that a product shouldn't try to be more than what it is, especially at the wrong time and place.

And that's the kind of problem I have with most of KH III's comedic writing: it's something straight out of a 2006 Youtube video (or a 90s sitcom since that's what helped forming those kind of videos).
People being mean to each other 24/7 because that's how friends are, the patented group laugh to end a scene, and vilifying characters that are considered two cool for school.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put Vanitas on a pedestal to prevent poking fun at him. One of my pastimes is watching BbS cutscenes one aftoer the other without gameplay, just because evertime he's on screen he says some manecing stuff, his theme kicks in, and next frame he's laying beaten on the ground, and that's hilarious.
But even if it can be considered an "improvement" over the previous titles, it still feels flawed and outdated by modern standards, and I'd have preferred KH III to straight up skipping those steps entirely.

But that's me. If you just like that kind of humor and that's it, okay.
I know better than to argue about sense of humor, the most subjective and diverse thing on Earth.
...still isn't a great scene narratively wise though.



When defending that scene people act like Kingdom Hearts was always this edgelord series all up in its own butt so we *finally* need some levity.
This is interesting to say the least, considering the Disney Shenanigans(™) were a pretty heavily criticized element of KH II.
Thing is, I have little problems with Daisy chasing Donald around for half an hour for forgetting their date, Mushu's constant quipping or Stitch's meddling, or even Randall's fate which almost descends into masochistic torture in KH III, because that's the Disney part.

Then.
You want to make an original story. Make important characters full of poignant and sad moments, and terrifying villains (which are apparently the characters Nomura feels more attached to). You want me to feel invested.
You can avoid making a total embarassment out of them then, even if it's for the sake of humor, I was led to believe that's why the talking duck and the green unfunny troll are around.

I never saw anyone clamoring that the scene where Saix reveals the Organization plan to Sora needed some fun interlude, and I say Vanitas showing up in Monsters Inc was on the same level: an enemy shows up to deliver heavy revelations aimed to unsettle the hero. I don't think the scene would've been better if Yuna Rikku and Paine sneaked out to Saix, pulled his hood on him and made him fall off the cliff.
I'm less harsh on the Luxord scene because ok, sure, Jack Sparrow moments, those movies have humor like that, but with Vanitas it was one of the balls KH III dropped with his character.
I completely agree with this.

I actually hated these "funny" moments because the villains already look so damn ridiculous in this game. All the orga does is mock Sora a bit, throw a random heartless in and disappears and making a fool out of Vanitas (who I hate, but still) doesn't help that in any way. The Luxord thing was kinda funny even though the falling animation looked so horribly dumb and misplaced and while I don't mind a little comedy, it really doesn't belong in the grand finale. I hated the forced humour in this game and especially the fourth wall jokes. Lea ruined the whole KG scene for me with his "haha, you can't kill me because I'm popular" joke because he completely ruined the mood by showing us that he is kinda aware of the players. The thing with fourth wall jokes is: You can't go back from that. You can make characters aware they are in some kind of show or game, but you can't expect them to immediately go back to serious mode from that - "haha, you can't kill me, oh no, you kidnapped Kairi" - doesn't work. Fourth wall jokes are such a cheap way of getting a laugh while completely ruining the tension and mocking your own villains because you felt that your game wasn't funny enough is not appropriate for a finale game.

Also, nitpicking, I hated that everyone constantly picks on Sora. Come on, it's not even funny anymore when he's constantly being told he's weak by his comrades and friends. It's rather mean and while I interpreted the SDG relationship in a bickering way, sometimes it really went overboard.
 

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I think part of the reason we didnt fight the organization members in the Disney worlds is because Sora might not have stood a chance against them that early. He was still in the process of regaining his strength. Which is kind of backed up with them getting the jump on him during a various points.
We technically battle Luxord through a ship race minigame. I don't know about everyone else but I kind of count it as it's appropriate for Luxord.

That could be why, but the game does a poor job in showing how weak Sora is, and the organization members could have still faked a couple fights with Sora to mock him or maybe do something similar to Luxord's where we don't battle them in the usual sense.

Also, nitpicking, I hated that everyone constantly picks on Sora. Come on, it's not even funny anymore when he's constantly being told he's weak by his comrades and friends. It's rather mean and while I interpreted the SDG relationship in a bickering way, sometimes it really went overboard.
KH3 PSA video: "Bullying is hurtful and bad so don't do it."

KH3 game: "Go out and bully your friends to the point they kill themselves. They won't mind."
 

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If their reasoning is that Sora is weak this time, it's a very stupid reason. I mean, he fights against the Demon Wave and does just fine. But ehh

Something else that really bugged me is that we only really got to take selfies with Aqua and she didn't even pose! What about the others hnnngh. I just wish they made Mysterious Tower playable really. The sky is so beautiful! Would've been a great "calm before the storm" moment
 

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KH4: 7 Days Versus XIII

Sora wakes up in Shibuya, has no power...again. Because he used all of his heart and depleted his power so he must get back the power o—
 
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