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Kingdom Hearts Nitpicks



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DarkosOverlord

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Oh yeah, the nitpick thread! Been a while, wonder what fun side-note will I be reading today
*a barrage of complaints about KH III*
...
*dives right in*
You guys have a bad influence on me.

Before drowing in the sea of replies, here's my nit to pick: how did the other Guardians who weren't SDG arrive at the Graveyard?
I guess this is more of a general "How do Riku, Mickey, Lea and Kairi travel, do they abuse Dark Corridors even if they were hinted to be a big no-no?" but for real, Aqua and possibly Ventus don't even have the armor anymore.
I think they should've just added some throwaway lines when you first travel to KG, since it's already there as a mechanic (Sora Donald and Goofy say stuff they don't say ever again during the first attempt) to show everyone was there with them.

Mostly because I like the idea of the Gummiship being packed with people squeezed together in a cartoonish fashion.

On the topic of keyblades, the fact that they had the concept of changing the look of them for leveling up RIGHT THERE due to KHUX, and did NOTHING of the likes...is beyond me.

It's even more baffling considering there is a Keyblade leveling up system. Like, I have a bit of an acquaintance who works with Square and has some inside knowledge, so I knew some minor stuff beforehand. When I heard that we would've been able to level up Keyblades, paired up with Riku getting another one, I thought for sure that changing the aestethic was in as well.
Even before Ux BbS set kind of a precedent, because Terra and Aqua's personal Keyblades absolutely "level up" in form and power, even if by game mechanics they're just different keyholders.

And as Spockanort noticed, the Starlight is in KH III and we level it up. Just like Ux, with similar materials too. But one changes and the other does not.

Magic progression in KH3 is completely awkward. You're stuck with basic spells for a long time until the game realizes in Arendelle that next tier spells exist, so it starts throwing them at you basically all at once.

Also, yeah. Some of the -gas are even worse, it's almost like Sora gets some magic awakening while going through Caribbean and San Fransokyo.

Going off of this, I am so displeased you don't get Waterga from beating Aqua. You get Blizzaga, but in a game where there IS a differentiation between the two that's no longer acceptable.

It bothers me that the trailers indicate so much more behind some scenes. For example Dark Aqua. There were speculations she was norted, that she was overcome by darkness and would confront Sora and the gang in the final battle with Terra having to save her this time and even Nomura said we had to do a great deal to save her. Soo, in the end, all that happened was that Riku and Mickey basically went there, did nothing, went out, got an upgrade, strolled through some unrelated world to find people she was close to (we don't get to see even one person), get back there without a reason, get whooped and then Sora goes in and beats the crap out of her. And there was literally no reason to make her fall to darkness except for stretching that plotline and have a Dark Aqua fight and fanart material. Epic.

Even more infuriating when you go back and re-read the interviews and declaration post-E3 reveal. I dare anyone to read them and not thinking there was going to be a lot more behind it. Not only it had absolutely zero impact on the story, but all of it was shown in trailers, minus the very exact moment when Guardian hits her (but both Ansem and Guardian were shown in trailers).

Also man... you can't tell me they didn't make her look like that on purpose to stir up the speculation and hype cauldron.
"She's Anti-Aqua" no she's not, there's plenty of Antis in the series and they're all basically humanized Shadows. She's a friggin' Nort except you then act like she's not.

I won't deny I'm still so bitter about this, it's all so... poor. And that's not to say worse things about it.

Aaaand that you can now just go into the RoD on a whim when the plot calls for it. The RoD was a real threat once which was already tarnished by the fact that everyone gets out there pretty easily except for Aqua and now you can get in and out everytime you please. Poor Realm of Darkness.

By the way, remember when Riku and Mickey state that the Realm of Darkness looked different at the beginning of the game?
Yeah, wonder what that was all about. Part of me is inclined to speculate it's foreshadowing for something and we'll see even crazier stuff regarding the RoD in the future... the other part of me remembers Anti-Aqua.

Xemnas not having any interaction with Aqua and Ven during KH3. He was the one looking for the Chamber of Waking in the first place, so why couldn't have he been the one to appear in LoD instead of Vanitas or alongside him? That would have been nice actually. Having SDG fight one of them instead of Aqua blocking them out with her shield. There's also Xemnas and Aqua's connection through her armor, but Nomura has apparently forgot its existence.

I get Vanitas showing up when Ven was, but Xemnas could've totally accompanied him, and in fact he should have.
It's so weird that the Norts discover the joys of working together only at the Graveyard, I always hoped that with Master Xehanort at the helm they would've placed more stress on the importance of bonds.
Xemnas had all the reasons to go where Aqua and Ven were, his obession with Castle Oblivion has been stressed out for years, and now we know without Guardian there wasn't any fear of a Terra revival.

You can feel that they just wanted to be done with that part. I mean, as if the absence of a Castle Oblivion dungeon and Land of Departure disappearing from the world map wasn't enough.

I just realized; most of the important stuff in the worlds is about 80% normal gameplay. There’s no things like:

-Riding Maximus with Flynn to get to Rapunzel
-Actually stopping the factory fire from spreading (as I mentioned earlier)
-Saving people in San Fransokyo (we did this in Olympus, why not here?)

I swear, Olympus is a case of "too good", it raises your expectations by adjusting you to a level you won't find in the other worlds.

It would be the only point in the entire game where you’d play as Maximus, so it wouldn’t make sense in terms of game design to go through the trouble of programming a whole control scheme for a character you’re only going to control once. We already have that flaw with Riku and Aqua, we don’t need to add a horse to play as!

You're the only person I've ever heard who considers that a "flaw", lol. Playing as someone who wasn't Sora was one of the few beacons of light in the gameplay, even if I obviously wasn't that thrilled about Aqua since she now has an entire game with the same mechanics.
Their placement of magic and items in shortcut is the dumbest thing (WHO. HEALS. ON. TRIANGLE?), but getting used to them is not this crisis, KH isn't that complex in terms of handling characters.

Not so sure about the part on game design too. Certainly didn't stop KH II for having a bunch of different situations with a different control scheme, and while some are infamously tedious I enjoy a lot of them and I'm glad they exist. Pretty much 90% of Space Paranoids is made of one-and-done gimmicks and I like it, it gives the world more personality and differentiate it from the rest.

But scratch all of that, the simplest fix for it would've been to make "Maximus racing" and actual minigame that you can revisit for rewards, like Frozen slider, Verum Rex and pretty much all the other stuff. I don't think any of it goes against game design.
 

kaseykockroach

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Riku and Aqua aren’t fun to play as. They control awkwardly, and you only play as them in battles, so there’s no time to get used to how they play. I know it’s fanservice and all, but I hope there’s none of that crap in DLC.
 

Perkilator

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Wasted potential aside, the dialogue is still...less than phenomenal, let's just say. Here're some examples:

-"Yeah, we have to keep Boo safe." "I'm on it."

-"We are a team. And teams delegate".

And don't think I'm gonna let go of the whole "masked intruders" bullocks in Toy Box when it should have been "monster toys".
 

DarkosOverlord

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The game also takes some interesting routes in deciding what to expand upon and what not.

Like, they take ample time to underline Buzz's laser being real, which I suspect was to "legitimize" the scene in which he fires at Woody, and they tell Rapunzel to get the hiffle out when Nobodies appear, because they can't be hurt by common means.

Except Gothel defeats two Reapers with a stick (maybe it's a relative of that one stick Roxas uses?), Flynn has apparently no problem whatsoever battling Nobodies on a rolling barrel (you'd think Rapunzel's magical hair of magic would be actually very good against special enemies), and just in general a lot of Disney characters can fight anything with even common means, as it was always the case.
Friggin' Chicken Little could battle anyone with baseballs.

I will never straight up fault a game for trying to cover bases, and I enjoy small descriptive talk as much as the next guy, but it's kinda weird what they decided to focus on.

Btw: Belle's elbow >>>>>> Rapunzel's magic hair.
 

Zettaflare

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Wasted potential aside, the dialogue is still...less than phenomenal, let's just say. Here're some examples:

-"Yeah, we have to keep Boo safe." "I'm on it."

-"We are a team. And teams delegate".

And don't think I'm gonna let go of the whole "masked intruders" bullocks in Toy Box when it should have been "monster toys".
Yeah, I think the dialogue got worse more than anything. The speeches that the BH6 team and Donald and Goofy gave right before the Dark Baymax boss made me cringe so hard
 

kaseykockroach

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KH cutscenes will (presumably, based on past evidence) always have some level of funny awkwardness. Kind of comes with the territory. I'd say KH3's antics are just quite a bit more livelier than usual.
 

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Yeah, I think the dialogue got worse more than anything. The speeches that the BH6 team and Donald and Goofy gave right before the Dark Baymax boss made me cringe so hard

I was SO ashamed of the Baymax thing. I didn't even get the problem - oh, you're whining about some outdated, bodyless computer program while you probably even forgot that it existed and when Sora's here to save your lazy butt you hold him a speech about how he is a douche? Also, that totally cringy "nobody loves you" speech in Toy Box, I hated Toy Box, the dialogue was the absolute worst and Buzz is just an awful character.
 

Veevee

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Well as a certain Pancake put it:

Repliku:Namine requires a vessel
Raiku: we can just make more Replicas
Repliku: Does not compute. Does not compute.

Also, the fact that they introduced the concept of re-awakening in a replica body as one, where you a) have to have the body and b) be in the thoughts of people who want you back. Which allowed Roxas to bullshi- warp himself straight to the battlefield because of friendship, but didn't make any sense for Naminés comeback because she was just surrounded by people who hardly even knew her. And yeah, while I don't support all of Pancake's videos, he really nailed the KH3 one.
 

VoidGear.

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Replayed 0.2 and noticed once more how stupidly much I miss the walking animation in the menu in KH3...
 

DarkosOverlord

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I liked the Toy Box dialogue with Young Xehanort, but since we're mentioning bits we disliked... man the Sulley and Vanitas scene was so unnecessarily dumb.
There are times and places where you can dunk on your own edgelord characters in good fun, but the game and moments where you're supposed to build your villains up for the grand finale isn't one of them. You can't make me care for Vanitas and his big return when you're making a complete fool out of him. I mean, I'm a huge Vanitas fan so I'll still care, I'll just be disappointed.

People who loved that were so busy shouting "lol, he yeeted Vanitas" to realize "teleport" is Vanitas' middle name and the fact that he doesn't immediately come back (which would've kinda saved the whole thing) makes no sense.
 

VoidGear.

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I liked the Toy Box dialogue with Young Xehanort, but since we're mentioning bits we disliked... man the Sulley and Vanitas scene was so unnecessarily dumb.
There are times and places where you can dunk on your own edgelord characters in good fun, but the game and moments where you're supposed to build your villains up for the grand finale isn't one of them. You can't make me care for Vanitas and his big return when you're making a complete fool out of him. I mean, I'm a huge Vanitas fan so I'll still care, I'll just be disappointed.

People who loved that were so busy shouting "lol, he yeeted Vanitas" to realize "teleport" is Vanitas' middle name and the fact that he doesn't immediately come back (which would've kinda saved the whole thing) makes no sense.
That scene was so horrible, in it's own entirety, and also in regards to what little other screentime he gets in the game, that I'm honestly baffled to see some people call it good or funny. It was literally the cheapest way to write him out of the scene, because apparently there was no other possible way than "very uncomfortable/embarrassing humor that does NOT fit into the situation at all".


In general, the scenes with Vanitas especially showed an astounding amount of inconsistency. In Monster world, he wears the coat. He gets yeeted and doesn't come back. Then suddenly he's followef SDG (and Aqua) to Castle Oblivion, now coatless. Then he disappears again with dramatic talk, only to reappear next to the other Xehanorts in KBG, with the coat back on.
It's as if they'd originally intended to care about giving him a story, then decided against it and forgot to readjust his looks/motivation.
 

Zettaflare

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We really needed more moments like Yeetus Vanitas and Jack knocking out Luxord with his bad breath in past games. Were Disney characters can have such an impact on the OC villains
 
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FudgemintGuardian

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Vanitas and Luxord being defeated in humiliating ways was a breath of fresh air to the series. Same with poor Ansem yelling at Pence to get off his lawn.

But where Luxord's defeat felt natural thanks to both his and Jack Sparrow's personalities and it's easy to reason why Ansem acted the way he did, I can see why some (like those above) aren't crazy about Vanitas' treatment. However I don't believe the scene itself is bad, but that it's so disconnected from everything else. Vanitas appears at the very last minutes of Monsters Inc., he's then thrown out almost immediately, and THEN utterly forgotten about as if the whole thing never happened. Having the guy literally made from negative emotions being paralyzed with fear from the monster in your closet is both funny and can also be interesting for Vanitas' character, but... why? Something needed to be done leading into this. Vanitas should have appeared earlier.

As for why he didn't just teleport back. I'm pretty sure corridors aren't instant. The one we see in KH2 was vast with multiple exits but only one path put up. So for Vanitas to go straight from Arendelle to Monsters Inc. may not be that easy.
 

DarkosOverlord

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See, we all meme this or that serious character and it's all in good fun, but that's exactly what that is, a parody. Just like I don't want to see Dragon Ball Z Abridged replacing the actual show even if Cell singing Sinatra is mad fun, I don't need to see the supposed villains turned into clowns just for the sake to make some meme. It always seems nice and the right thing to advocate for more in a series, but I'm of the mind that a product shouldn't try to be more than what it is, especially at the wrong time and place.

And that's the kind of problem I have with most of KH III's comedic writing: it's something straight out of a 2006 Youtube video (or a 90s sitcom since that's what helped forming those kind of videos).
People being mean to each other 24/7 because that's how friends are, the patented group laugh to end a scene, and vilifying characters that are considered two cool for school.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put Vanitas on a pedestal to prevent poking fun at him. One of my pastimes is watching BbS cutscenes one aftoer the other without gameplay, just because evertime he's on screen he says some manecing stuff, his theme kicks in, and next frame he's laying beaten on the ground, and that's hilarious.
But even if it can be considered an "improvement" over the previous titles, it still feels flawed and outdated by modern standards, and I'd have preferred KH III to straight up skipping those steps entirely.

But that's me. If you just like that kind of humor and that's it, okay.
I know better than to argue about sense of humor, the most subjective and diverse thing on Earth.
...still isn't a great scene narratively wise though.

That scene was so horrible, in it's own entirety, and also in regards to what little other screentime he gets in the game, that I'm honestly baffled to see some people call it good or funny. It was literally the cheapest way to write him out of the scene, because apparently there was no other possible way than "very uncomfortable/embarrassing humor that does NOT fit into the situation at all".

When defending that scene people act like Kingdom Hearts was always this edgelord series all up in its own butt so we *finally* need some levity.
This is interesting to say the least, considering the Disney Shenanigans(™) were a pretty heavily criticized element of KH II.
Thing is, I have little problems with Daisy chasing Donald around for half an hour for forgetting their date, Mushu's constant quipping or Stitch's meddling, or even Randall's fate which almost descends into masochistic torture in KH III, because that's the Disney part.

Then.
You want to make an original story. Make important characters full of poignant and sad moments, and terrifying villains (which are apparently the characters Nomura feels more attached to). You want me to feel invested.
You can avoid making a total embarassment out of them then, even if it's for the sake of humor, I was led to believe that's why the talking duck and the green unfunny troll are around.

I never saw anyone clamoring that the scene where Saix reveals the Organization plan to Sora needed some fun interlude, and I say Vanitas showing up in Monsters Inc was on the same level: an enemy shows up to deliver heavy revelations aimed to unsettle the hero. I don't think the scene would've been better if Yuna Rikku and Paine sneaked out to Saix, pulled his hood on him and made him fall off the cliff.
I'm less harsh on the Luxord scene because ok, sure, Jack Sparrow moments, those movies have humor like that, but with Vanitas it was one of the balls KH III dropped with his character.

In general, the scenes with Vanitas especially showed an astounding amount of inconsistency. In Monster world, he wears the coat. He gets yeeted and doesn't come back. Then suddenly he's followef SDG (and Aqua) to Castle Oblivion, now coatless. Then he disappears again with dramatic talk, only to reappear next to the other Xehanorts in KBG, with the coat back on.
It's as if they'd originally intended to care about giving him a story, then decided against it and forgot to readjust his looks/motivation.

I'm almost certain I've made a post in this thread about it already, but this goes hand in hand with Terranort, who first meets up with the heroes in normal clothes, then puts on a black coat to do the power walk with the other Darknesses, then switches back for the fight.

I wish after this saga the coats will take a huge step back. At this point they seem to exist only for representation value and they present an excuse for not drawing more original outfits which should be Nomura's forte.


As for why he didn't just teleport back. I'm pretty sure corridors aren't instant. The one we see in KH2 was vast with multiple exits but only one path put up. So for Vanitas to go straight from Arendelle to Monsters Inc. may not be that easy.

I was talking more about his own teleportation that he spams when you fight him.
I'm not accepting that it's only gameplay after witnessing Lingering Will busting out the whip and Ultima Cannon in a cutscene.
Vanitas needed to come back immediately, then saying something about not wanting to fight so many people so soon, or that he was still weak after being restored, something like that, and left since we can't have Nort fights in Disney worlds.

Then all the memes would've been "Vanitas is scared of Sulley and Mike!" and I would've been fine with that. Again, no one is above being made fun of.
But I'd like some level of internal coherency in my games, and the argument that "iz gud cuz iz fun" feels weak.
 

Perkilator

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Alright, moving on.....um.....oh yeah, Atlantica sucks in KH II because all you do is push a button over and over again until you beat the world. And the songs suck.
 

MATGSY

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Alright, moving on.....um.....oh yeah, Atlantica sucks in KH II because all you do is push a button over and over again until you beat the world. And the songs suck.
I mean that kinda describes every world in KH2...
 

Perkilator

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I mean that kinda describes every world in KH2...
Well, at least I had fun with the combat and the few things to find in hidden books and crannies. What's Atlantica got outside the singing? A mermaid kingdom and a Jamaican crab. Heck, even KHI Atlantica was better than this.
 

DarkosOverlord

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Speaking of Atlantica, I wonder how does Sora cope about switching from dancing and playing around with his animal friends who gained sentience and complex feelings to happily waltzing into Remy's kitchen to start cooking all the different types of fish and animal meat he gained on his journey.

Like, how can he cook fishes and lobsters (which, btw, he caught while still alive and that must usually be cooked relatively early) without thinking about Flounder and Sebastian?

If you aren't sad yet, here's one of apparently my most popular jokes to date.

11697
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