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Zettaflare

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How did Ventus not age for twelve years? The organization members still physically aged even without hearts
 

Grono

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So... did Vanitas look like 14 year old Sora when he was first created? Did he have a baby face and then transition into the KHII Sora face, or did he always just have an unusual amount of testosterone for a newborn?
 

palizinhas

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"That boy in the mask is history"

...what? I'm sorry Ven, but when did that happen?
 

catcake

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In KH1 Agrabah when you have to open the locks on the walls to progress, Sora pushes his keyblade in upside down. Like... the spikes point upwards. That's not how keyholes work, you can't just thrust it in any way you want. Always bothers me a bit.
 

Grono

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So... Vanitas is the only person that can summon the unversed, correct? The Evil Queen doesn't count (was going to include the evil stepmother, but I have no idea if she summoned the cursed coach or not)?

"That boy in the mask is history"

...what? I'm sorry Ven, but when did that happen?

Ugh, I hate it when the small characters try to show off how cool they are. Shut up, Ven. No he isn't.

In KH1 Agrabah when you have to open the locks on the walls to progress, Sora pushes his keyblade in upside down. Like... the spikes point upwards. That's not how keyholes work, you can't just thrust it in any way you want. Always bothers me a bit.

Honestly, problem #10684 on the top 11,000 problems with Kingdom Hearts list :p
 

Justjack91

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- In KH1 when random abilities are learned at random moments (Goofy learned "Cheer!" :D)

- The fact that Mickey's head is on the Kingdom Key because there weren't strong plans for sequels and instead of being an Easter Egg it makes it feel like Mickey was somehow tied to the Kingdom Key in a deeper way.

- Justifying the use of The Grid in DDD

- Amnesia Atlantica in KH2

- ...And the fact Ursula is even in DDD with Destiny Islands in the beginning -_-

- Shoehorning Kairi's keyblade into KH2 when there was barely a concept of why at that point

- Sora can't explore digital Twilight Town because it's "awkward"

- For that matter, any invisible walls that block off a character from a certain path because reasons (also the fact that people would actually learn something they normally wouldn't)

- TWTNW: WHAT'S BEHIND THE DARN TRUCK!?!?!
 

Sephiroth0812

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Why was the organization so obsessed with turning other people into heartless? Did they really think that they would also take a human form like Ansem, or did they just not have enough nobody bosses like Twilight Thorn lying around to do the dirty work?

Huh? I thought this would be obvious even from KH 2 itself?
Like Yen Sid explains that closing the Door to Darkness and recreating the World walls prevented an influx of new Heartless from the RoD into the worlds, but the Organisation needs to collect Hearts for their artificial KH so they go about turning people into Heartless in order for Sora to defeat them and then collect the hearts freed by the Keyblade (which in turn prevents the hearts from reuniting with their other parts and reforming the original person) for their KH.
The second visits to Land of Dragons and Port Royal even deal exclusively with that and if I remember correctly Luxord even mentions something in regards to that.
Yen Sid said:
Your past endeavors did prevent an immense effusion of Heartless fromthe great darkness; make no mistake about that.
However, the Heartless aredarkness made real---and darkness lingers yet in every heart.
The Heartless are fewer. But while darkness exists in a single heart, it will be difficult to eliminate them.

Note how Yen Sid explicitly says the Heartless are fewer, yet during the game itself compared to KH 1 it doesn't come over that way. This is because both the Organisation and Maleficent/Pete are artificially increasing the number of them.

In one of the extra scenes of KH 2 FM Xemnas also indirectly mentions deliberately putting Heartless into Sora's way:
Xemnas said:
The Keyblade master is once again walking the path. Let us plant
some seeds in that path. Go.

The "Go." obviously refers to ordering the other Organisation members to roam the worlds and do just that.

Axel said:
Every Heartless slain with that Keyblade releases a captive heart. That is what the Organization is after.

In order for there being captive hearts to collect, Heartless need to be around, hence the Organisation going around turning people into more Heartless. It's even possible they engineered Maleficent's return for this purpose too, as her ordering Pete to create more Heartless also just plays into the Organisation's hands.

Port Royal said:
(Luxord appears and takes the heart from the Heartless, sending it to Kingdom
Hearts)

Luxord: Sora, bravo.

(He vanishes as they run up to him)

Jack Sparrow: Just who was that chap?

Sora: He's part of an Organization that's collecting hearts. First they release
Heartless into different worlds. We defeat those Heartless. Then they get the
hearts. We're never gonna stop 'em like this.

As seen in the last quote, even Sora gets what exactly the Organisation is doing and why they create Heartless.


Or in short, the Organisation turned people into Heartless to have more of them around so they could capture more hearts when they were released by the Keyblade.
This is one of the reasons btw which rabid Organisation XIII fans tend to brush aside when it comes to the issue of why Yen Sid, Mickey and Sora wanted the Organisation to be destroyed and what Riku meant by them "messing up the worlds".
Turning people into Heartless and then prey on capturing their hearts once released by the Keyblade is pretty messed up after all.

So... Vanitas is the only person that can summon the unversed, correct? The Evil Queen doesn't count (was going to include the evil stepmother, but I have no idea if she summoned the cursed coach or not)?

Wasn't it more like the negativity of the Queen turning the Spirit of the Mirror into an Unversed?
She didn't summon anything as far as I recall, but I do faintly recall that the scene was different in the japanese and english version of the original BBS.

Considering that Unversed are basically just emotions given a tangible form and that they can apparently change form to a certain extent, it is also possible that i.e. the negativity of Lady Tremaine just attracted an already existing Unversed which then morphed into the Cursed Coach due to some memory shenanigans...or Vanitas just sat in a tree somewhere and thought hey, a pumpkin Unversed would be fitting for the setting, let's create one from scratch.

---

PS, now it can finally be said: It's over 9000, lool.
 
Last edited:

Ranma

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The fact that you can translate (the reaction command is 'Translate' the sign in KH2's Cave of Wonders even if Aladdin isn't with you. Or the fact that Sora is bilingual and we never hear about it. Or if you argue that in KH2 your missing party members are always there (esp. since you can change the party mid-battle) then the fact that you couldn't in KH1. Nope, we can't understand Tinkerbell without Peter Pan. So like are the party members with you or not? Nope, you decided to use a world-exclusive party member. You have to run back to the nearest save point in order to use this trinity mark. I know it's just gameplay mechanics, but still.
 

Riruru

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- It's always bugged me how pretty much 90% of the original characters have the same exact blue eyes. It's like the graphic designers were too lazy to render a different tone/shade. I want to see some purple/pink/red/black/silver.

- Why Aladdin or Sora don't just use the Genie to wish the Xehanort's away / to save everyone / for the X-Blade / etc. I mean, yes, I know why. But it's jarring when they keep insisting on having Genie show up just for them to waste the wishes on things that are minor inconveniences. At least use the wish to complete the world so we don't have to spend another hour in Agrabah staring at the same sand dune again.
 

MATGSY

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That is actually a really good headcanon.
Dunno about that. I always thought others like Shan Yu were "Heartlessized", they just didn't make it obvious. If you look at what Maleficent's description of Clayton was, it's not that different from Scar.
Square could've very well had a whole seperate org of Disney villain nobodies if they wanted. Heck, before BBS retconned the dragon form, one might've made the argument of Maleficent having a nobody as well.

(This created my own nitpick: if the Organization were the ones who released Jafar to make him a Heartless, did they do it? And if they didn't, why? Their overall absence there is weird)

I headcanon that it was Riku who let Jafar out, so he could kill Jafar off for good. The actual bossfight with Sora being a distraction while Riku smashed the lamp. Since it's not identified who arranged for Jafar's escape, it could well be anyone in a black coat. Besides, if it were an actual org member.....

- Why Aladdin or Sora don't just use the Genie to wish the Xehanort's away / to save everyone / for the X-Blade / etc. I mean, yes, I know why. But it's jarring when they keep insisting on having Genie show up just for them to waste the wishes on things that are minor inconveniences. At least use the wish to complete the world so we don't have to spend another hour in Agrabah staring at the same sand dune again.

Why wouldn't the Org use Jafar to wish their hearts back or literally anything else they'd want? At least in Pete's case he's an idiot so it's expected of him to not recognize an opportunity. Org13 don't get off that lightly.
 

DarkosOverlord

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Wasn't it more like the negativity of the Queen turning the Spirit of the Mirror into an Unversed?
She didn't summon anything as far as I recall, but I do faintly recall that the scene was different in the japanese and english version of the original BBS.

Considering that Unversed are basically just emotions given a tangible form and that they can apparently change form to a certain extent, it is also possible that i.e. the negativity of Lady Tremaine just attracted an already existing Unversed which then morphed into the Cursed Coach due to some memory shenanigans...or Vanitas just sat in a tree somewhere and thought hey, a pumpkin Unversed would be fitting for the setting, let's create one from scratch.

---

PS, now it can finally be said: It's over 9000, lool.

Yeah, that's something that always intrigued me. Not only the Queen, but if you look at the Journal entries for Symphony Master and Cursed Coach, it says they're born from Lady Tremaine's negativity. Including the Mirror, that's three Unversed or Unversed-like beings not made by Vanitas and while the scene with the Queen was edited, these entries didn't.
My personal headcanon was that Vanitas is also able to control strong negative emotions of others around him, turning them into Unversed (true he wasn't physically there during those events, but the Unversed do seem to spawn even after he's gone, so it might be a delayed effect)

What 9000? There's no way it can be right! Congrats!

Why Aladdin or Sora don't just use the Genie to wish the Xehanort's away / to save everyone / for the X-Blade / etc. I mean, yes, I know why. But it's jarring when they keep insisting on having Genie show up just for them to waste the wishes on things that are minor inconveniences. At least use the wish to complete the world so we don't have to spend another hour in Agrabah staring at the same sand dune again.

Well, after the first KH they can't for he is not Lamp-bound anymore and he can't grant wishes, he just has magical powers (also weaker according to Disney lore).
But yeah, I agree with the core concept of "you're creating a World based off Aladinn, make us use the friggin Lamp".
I would've loved if in the first game there was a way to get an options menu where you could've picked even just one wish out of three, kinda like with Tidus Wakka and Selphie at the beginning.

It could've been something like this:

"What is it that you wish for?"
- I wish for defence! (a unique Accessory)
- I wish for wealth! (a LOT of Munny)
- I wish for power! (a bunch of stat powerups)

Just to make an example.
I mean, between Sora, Donald, Goofy and the Jiminy they had, like, twelve more wishes.
 

Smithee

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- Why Aladdin or Sora don't just use the Genie to wish the Xehanort's away / to save everyone / for the X-Blade / etc. I mean, yes, I know why. But it's jarring when they keep insisting on having Genie show up just for them to waste the wishes on things that are minor inconveniences. At least use the wish to complete the world so we don't have to spend another hour in Agrabah staring at the same sand dune again.

Well, after the first KH they can't for he is not Lamp-bound anymore and he can't grant wishes, he just has magical powers (also weaker according to Disney lore).

That, and Disney-based genies can't kill (at least not directly).

But even then, Sora could've just said, "I wish for the Xehanorts to lose all their powers forever," or something else nonlethal.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Neither of Xemnas' joke weapons in Days are stale baguettes. This legitimately annoys me.

The story dropping the whole "scent" thing. As dumb as Riku and Zexion sniffing round was, it's a useful ability and forgetting they have it will only create more nitpicks. ("Why didn't Riku know [insert here] was [insert here] when his nose would have told him such?)

Heck, it's probably already happened for all I know.

We don't do anything at the Heartless manufactory. Like, here we have this boss-sized room the MCP took control of, but we don't, say, fight and destroy the Heartless making machine to prevent further attacks before going to Space Paranoids to fight him personally


So... did Vanitas look like 14 year old Sora when he was first created? Did he have a baby face and then transition into the KHII Sora face, or did he always just have an unusual amount of testosterone for a newborn?
Crap, I need to draw this.

PS, now it can finally be said: It's over 9000, lool.
source.gif
 

DarkosOverlord

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Xemnas making jokes the first time he meets Sora and then dropping that whole shtick ever since.
Sure, he still has some sarcastic remarks, but nothing on the level of "And here I thought we could be friends."

Square could've very well had a whole seperate org of Disney villain nobodies if they wanted. Heck, before BBS retconned the dragon form, one might've made the argument of Maleficent having a nobody as well.

It still pains me to see how underutilized and explored the Disney villains were. In the first KH they were an actual menace and well geared into the story.
In KH II they feel so... ultimately unconsequential. Hades is the only one who still manages to have impact and character.
Truthfully, I understand wanting to make a group of original characters, but ignoring any possible Nobodization for Disney villains only enhanced how disconnected they were.

I headcanon that it was Riku who let Jafar out, so he could kill Jafar off for good. The actual bossfight with Sora being a distraction while Riku smashed the lamp. Since it's not identified who arranged for Jafar's escape, it could well be anyone in a black coat. Besides, if it were an actual org member.....

Why wouldn't the Org use Jafar to wish their hearts back or literally anything else they'd want? At least in Pete's case he's an idiot so it's expected of him to not recognize an opportunity. Org13 don't get off that lightly.

That's fair.
 

Ueki_168

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Hi! It's my first post on KHI ^//^

And one nitpick that comes to my mind is how ugly the face models look outside of cutscenes (or even in some cutscenes, while the focus is in another character). It is more obvious on KH1 but all the others do the same since they run on the same engine.
And while, for example, the low-res screen of the 3DS made it a least bearable, it was still there. And with the HD release you can just see how ugly the faces look, specially since DDD looks like mastered the cutscene faces.

And it would be okay if the pair looked similar, but Axel's face looks so different from the well animated one, just as if he was someone else. And that goes for a couple more characters.

And I hope I did my first post well nn'. Been years since I last stepped into any kind of forum.
 

Zettaflare

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Why did Mickey never meet Terra in BBS? He considers him a friend in DDD yet they never met once in the prequel.
 

Muke

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^ Pretty sure that's a "the friend of a friend of mine is my friend"-situation
 

Grono

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Huh? I thought this would be obvious even from KH 2 itself?
Like Yen Sid explains that closing the Door to Darkness and recreating the World walls prevented an influx of new Heartless from the RoD into the worlds, but the Organisation needs to collect Hearts for their artificial KH so they go about turning people into Heartless in order for Sora to defeat them and then collect the hearts freed by the Keyblade (which in turn prevents the hearts from reuniting with their other parts and reforming the original person) for their KH.
The second visits to Land of Dragons and Port Royal even deal exclusively with that and if I remember correctly Luxord even mentions something in regards to that.


Note how Yen Sid explicitly says the Heartless are fewer, yet during the game itself compared to KH 1 it doesn't come over that way. This is because both the Organisation and Maleficent/Pete are artificially increasing the number of them.

In one of the extra scenes of KH 2 FM Xemnas also indirectly mentions deliberately putting Heartless into Sora's way:


The "Go." obviously refers to ordering the other Organisation members to roam the worlds and do just that.



In order for there being captive hearts to collect, Heartless need to be around, hence the Organisation going around turning people into more Heartless. It's even possible they engineered Maleficent's return for this purpose too, as her ordering Pete to create more Heartless also just plays into the Organisation's hands.



As seen in the last quote, even Sora gets what exactly the Organisation is doing and why they create Heartless.


Or in short, the Organisation turned people into Heartless to have more of them around so they could capture more hearts when they were released by the Keyblade.
This is one of the reasons btw which rabid Organisation XIII fans tend to brush aside when it comes to the issue of why Yen Sid, Mickey and Sora wanted the Organisation to be destroyed and what Riku meant by them "messing up the worlds".
Turning people into Heartless and then prey on capturing their hearts once released by the Keyblade is pretty messed up after all.



Wasn't it more like the negativity of the Queen turning the Spirit of the Mirror into an Unversed?
She didn't summon anything as far as I recall, but I do faintly recall that the scene was different in the japanese and english version of the original BBS.

Considering that Unversed are basically just emotions given a tangible form and that they can apparently change form to a certain extent, it is also possible that i.e. the negativity of Lady Tremaine just attracted an already existing Unversed which then morphed into the Cursed Coach due to some memory shenanigans...or Vanitas just sat in a tree somewhere and thought hey, a pumpkin Unversed would be fitting for the setting, let's create one from scratch.

---

PS, now it can finally be said: It's over 9000, lool.

That's the problem, though; they just convince people to go dark as part of their plan and hope it totally works out and they picked just the right guy to be a minor antagonist? That is a really bad plan; there is NO WAY they would get nearly as many people to do that to make it a substantial income of hearts. There is just no way. And, even so, wouldn't the boss still just release ONE god damn heart anyways? What's the point? It's not like the bosses have been pre-established to have super hearts by Nomura, it's just a stupid plan by the organization to create a fucking MINISCULE amount of heartless in the process. And, if it really was their ultimate goal to just consistently turn people, how come we only see them actively trying to turn someone heartless in Beast's Castle? Oh, and also, you even said that they can just summon their own heartless, SO WHY IS XALDIN SO FIXATED ON TURNING THIS ONE GUY EVIL IF THEY COULD EASILY JUST NOT DO THAT AND CONTINUING TO KILL JOE SCHMOES TO KEEP SUMMONING REGULAR EMBLEMS THAT WILL GIVE THEM THE SAME RESULT?! And I know they tried to turn beast evil so they could also get his nobody, but how do they know his nobody will a) gain a human/beast form, and b) that he will totally comply to their demands? Do nobodies just have completely different personalities and loyalties once they're turned? I guess it would explain why Even didn't say jack shit to Lea when he woke up, but still. This is ridiculous. Also, if he just turns into a standard upper nobody, then they fucked up. That's just another soldier. I could get if Xemnas meant that they just chased down literally anyone to be a nobody/heartless and just killed everything in sight, but the organization's plan in these instances seems a lot more directed, and therefore is a lot more flawed. And I know they must kill more people in their path; it's just weird that Xaldin is so fixated on turning this one fucking guy into a heartless/nobody when he doesn't even know if it'll work out for him.

Sorry about that, that totally devolved into a rant on Beast's Castle. Ummm, new nitpick?

At least from what I saw in the English version, she splashes a vial onto the mirror, turning it into an unversed. So, she didn't create him, but she totally made him an unversed (don't know about a version difference, though). As for Lady Tremaine, I want to take that Vanitas line as a personal headcanon, lol.

Congrats on 9,000! I bet 8,000 of those were spent on debunks on threads like these, lol xD
 

so_zetta_slow

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When Tifa is looking for Cloud in KH2: "Have any of you seen a guy with spiky hair?" Really?? She couldn't come up with a more detailed way to describe Cloud's appearance? She must not be too set on finding him; so many people in this series have spiky hair. Heck, even spiky blonde hair would have been a more apt description.

Plus...Sora, who usually meddles in everyone's business and extends his help to practically anyone in need, doesn't even ask for more details. Seems a bit out of character for him to not offer to help Tifa in her search for this spiky-haired fellow, but maybe that's just me. (Sora also doesn't inquire as to why this random person he doesn't know is punching walls and stuff in Ansem's study, but I am willing to attribute that to Sora being his typical overlooking, overly trusting self.)
 
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