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Kingdom Hearts III Pre-Release Spoiler Discussion Thread



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drew0512

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But I think you're viewing KH2 from your present perspective, where as I'm speaking of base KH2 back when it first came out. I felt it was complete when I played the base version of KH2. It was only after KH2FM came out (which was a year later) that I came to expect more of what KH2FM had to offer for future games in the series. It was almost like there was my expectations for the series before KH2FM and then new expectations for the series after KH2FM.

Also consider this, even though BBS and KH3D didn't live up to KH2FM overall, they did try to carry over fan favorite elements of KH2FM. BBS had a secret bosses that hinted at the next game in the series (Mysterious Figure A.K.A Young Xehanort), BBS also had Mirage Arena which served the same purpose as the coliseum. Later on in BBSFM they added the Unversed Challenges which were clearly a substitute for the Mushroom XIII. BBS also had the stickers which were similar to the puzzle pieces in KH2FM. The only thing it was missing was a Sephiroth fight, but at least Sephiroth got a cameo in the credit scene with Zack. (I also will criticize BBS for not having at least a brief scene with Young Leon/Squall)

Moving onto KH3D you had the battle portals (which I think was trying to act a substitute for the coliseum tournaments since Olympus Coliseum couldn't be in the Realm of Sleep obviously. An excuse which KH3 clearly doesn't have to hide behind). They could also be viewed as a substitute for the Mushroom XIII. And then again with the special portals that let you refight stronger versions of the bosses which again I thought was a substitute for the coliseum. KH3D not having a Final Fantasy boss made since because again it's in the Realm of Sleep. The odd thing about KH3D was having Julius as a boss instead of someone more tied into the story.

You can see though that they were at least trying to carry over elements from KH2FM to other games that followed it. I figured the same would naturally be true for KH3.

Why are we conveniently forgetting that KH and KHFM exist? KHFM introduced a secret boss that hints at a future game, not KH2FM. KH1 introduced collectibles, not KH2FM. KH1 introduced the Coliseum and tournaments, not KH2(FM).

KH2 was generally regarded as a great game because it was fun and technically superb, but no serious review has ever dared to say that it was a COMPLETE improvement over KH1, simply because it isn't. Level design is a downgrade and generally feels cheap; exploration is close to non-existent; the plot has a bad pace; the game is too easy; the gameplay is too flashy and button-smashing (sounds familiar?).

This is exactly why some fans need to let go of KH2(FM), the nostalgia glasses are just too strong on this one.

KH3 needs to be KH3, not KH2FM 0.2. To be a good game and a worthy sequel, KH3 needs to take elements from the previous games (and I said gameS) and improve them. That's how it works. We don't know if KH3 has succeeded because we haven't played the game yet (and yes, we do need to play it before we judge it) but we do know that it has addressed some, if not every big issues this series has:
- Disney doesn't seem to be a filler anymore (unlike KH2)
- Every Keyblade seems to be useful now (unlike KH2)
- Gummiship looks like a big improvement
- Exploration is back (unlike KH2).

If KH3 generally feels like an improvement, than it has done what it needed to do (and it doesn't mean that it isn't allowed to have flaws, because perfection doesn't exist). Fans are free to expect KH2FM 2.0 but they're just setting themselves up for disappointment because, thank God, Nomura thinks KH3 needs to be KH3.
And don't even get me started on the hypocrisy some fans are showing. A common complain is "KH3 is too flashy and cinematic, I wish it was like KH2(FM)" which is tremendously ironic because it was KH2 that introduced flashiness and "cinematic combat", but everyone has forgotten or is simply overlooking it. KH2FM really only shines when played on critical mode at level 1 (even "normal" critical mode can be beaten with only X, dodge and Cure - that's what I did). If you need to play the game with those restrictions to finally feel a challenge and feel like "this is what it's supposed to play like", then the base game has problems and it's far too easy. Yet, when judging KH3, many simply forget KH2(FM)'s faults and not only it's ironic like I already said, but it's also unfair because you're comparing a game you've played with a bunch of trailers. A fair comparison can be done after playing KH3 with the same restrictions as KH2FM. If the game feels like it rewards the player's efforts and skills and doesn't rely on luck, then KH3 has succeeded (and it doesn't need to be a mere copy of KH2FM to do so). This constant comparison with KH2FM is exhausting and only damages KH3 and KH as a whole, it needs to stop (or at least it needs to take on a more objective look).
 
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rokudamia2

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No what it was is that some people complained about the story being confusing because some people didn't play COM beforehand. Which I have always thought was. B.S. critic of KH2, because let's be honest back in the day EVERYONE and their mother owned a GBA so COM was easily accessible. People back then had no one to blame but themselves for not picking up COM.

If you play KH1 and then COM and then KH2 the story back then was not difficult to follow. It was only after KH2 when so many games began being spread across all these different handhelds that the story got really convoluted.


I was here when kh2 vanilla was released in Japan . There was definitely a backlash though not immediate. Not in the “the game is bad” way but in a “ign giving kh2 a 7 wasn’t actually that controversial” way. The top complaints were that the game was too easy, most of the Disney worlds were filler and we rarely saw any of the organization members before they show up and fight you.
 

Sephiroth0812

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I'm somehow having a deja vu here as when I look at things right now with the constant comparisons of KH III to KH II FM and expectations for III to be another, but bigger and better looking II, this did happen in the past already but with II in place of III and I in place of II.

The whole issue with nostalgia glasses and putting one game (in this case KH II FM) on a pedestal which then causes arguments and friction we did have back in the days with I and II in nearly the exact same roles as now.
I do remember there being quite some beefs between what was called "KH I nostalgia purists" and KH II fans who "didn't know what quality is" and things could get pretty nasty.

The main difference to today is that back then these discussions and debates flared up only after both games were already released.
Now we have it already before III is even out and for all to form their full own opinion on it.

Sure, you can already have parts that you deem as good or sub par, like i.e. I am personally not very thrilled about the complete shafting of Radiant Garden and the (supposedly) complete ignorance of all subplots that originate and pertain to that world, not only the FF cameos but also those elements connected to a bunch of original characters.

If those elements you see as sub par are in the majority right now I can see why some people might be a little jaded or anxious, yet I'd say that approaching the game with too much pessimism is as damaging as having too high expectations.
Cause in this case one might be so fixated that the positive aspects aren't even fully acknowledged anymore.
 

Axel92

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Why are we conveniently forgetting that KH and KHFM exist? KHFM introduced a secret boss that hints at a future game, not KH2FM. KH1 introduced collectibles, not KH2FM. KH1 introduced the Coliseum and tournaments, not KH2(FM).

KH2 was generally regarded as a great game because it was fun and technically superb, but no serious review has ever dared to say that it was a COMPLETE improvement over KH1, simply because it isn't. Level design is a downgrade and generally feels cheap; exploration is close to non-existent; the plot has a bad pace; the game is too easy; the gameplay is too flashy and button-smashing (sounds familiar?).

This is exactly why some fans need to let go of KH2(FM), the nostalgia glasses are just too strong on this one.

KH3 needs to be KH3, not KH2FM 0.2. To be a good game and a worthy sequel, KH3 needs to take elements from the previous games (and I said gameS) and improve them. That's how it works. We don't know if KH3 has succeeded because we haven't play the game yet (and yes, we do need to play it before we judge it) but we do know that it has addressed some, if not every big issues this series has:
- Disney doesn't seem to be a filler anymore (unlike KH2)
- Every Keyblade seems to be useful now (unlike KH2)
- Gummiship looks like a big improvement
- Exploration is back (unlike KH2).

If KH3 generally feels like an improvement, than it has done what it needed to do (and it doesn't mean that it isn't allowed to have flaws, because perfection doesn't exist). Fans are free to expect KH2FM 2.0 but they're just setting themselves up for disappointment because, thank God, Nomura thinks KH3 needs to be KH3.
And don't even get me started on the hypocrisy some fans are showing. A common complain is "KH3 is too flashy and cinematic, I wish it was like KH2(FM)" which is tremendously ironic because it was KH2 that introduced flashiness and "cinematic combat", but everyone has forget or is simply overlooking it. KH2FM really only shines when played in critical mode at level 1 (even "normal" critical mode can be beaten with only X, dodge and Cure - that's what I did). If you need to play the game with those restrictions to finally feel a challenge and feel like "this is what it's supposed to play like", then the base game has problems and it's far too easy. Yet, when judging KH3, many simply forget KH2(FM)'s faults and not only it's ironic like I already said, but it's also unfair because you're comparing a game you've played with a bunch of trailers. A fair comparison can be done after playing KH3 with the same restrictions as KH2FM. If the game feels like it rewards the player's efforts and skills and doesn't rely on luck, then KH3 has succeeded (and it doesn't need to be a mere copy of KH2FM to do so). This constant comparison with KH2FM is exhausting and only damages KH3 and KH as a whole, it needs to stop (or at least it needs to take on a more objective look).
I would have not written it any better.
Wonderful post
 

Scala's Hope

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The leaker apparently doubled down on the fact that Scala is both 5 steps to the final boss, and the area for the final bosses is "large". I think we explore the city while we fight, as some of the early FF XV leviathan footage or Advent Children. Maybe that's what's so special. An explorable final boss sequence seems very unique (plus they give you a trophy at the start)
 

robotman

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Why are we conveniently forgetting that KH and KHFM exist? KHFM introduced a secret boss that hints at a future game, not KH2FM. KH1 introduced collectibles, not KH2FM. KH1 introduced the Coliseum and tournaments, not KH2(FM).

KH2 was generally regarded as a great game because it was fun and technically superb, but no serious review has ever dared to say that it was a COMPLETE improvement over KH1, simply because it isn't. Level design is a downgrade and generally feels cheap; exploration is close to non-existent; the plot has a bad pace; the game is too easy; the gameplay is too flashy and button-smashing (sounds familiar?).

This is exactly why some fans need to let go of KH2(FM), the nostalgia glasses are just too strong on this one.

KH3 needs to be KH3, not KH2FM 0.2. To be a good game and a worthy sequel, KH3 needs to take elements from the previous games (and I said gameS) and improve them. That's how it works. We don't know if KH3 has succeeded because we haven't play the game yet (and yes, we do need to play it before we judge it) but we do know that it has addressed some, if not every big issues this series has:
- Disney doesn't seem to be a filler anymore (unlike KH2)
- Every Keyblade seems to be useful now (unlike KH2)
- Gummiship looks like a big improvement
- Exploration is back (unlike KH2).

If KH3 generally feels like an improvement, than it has done what it needed to do (and it doesn't mean that it isn't allowed to have flaws, because perfection doesn't exist). Fans are free to expect KH2FM 2.0 but they're just setting themselves up for disappointment because, thank God, Nomura thinks KH3 needs to be KH3.
And don't even get me started on the hypocrisy some fans are showing. A common complain is "KH3 is too flashy and cinematic, I wish it was like KH2(FM)" which is tremendously ironic because it was KH2 that introduced flashiness and "cinematic combat", but everyone has forget or is simply overlooking it. KH2FM really only shines when played in critical mode at level 1 (even "normal" critical mode can be beaten with only X, dodge and Cure - that's what I did). If you need to play the game with those restrictions to finally feel a challenge and feel like "this is what it's supposed to play like", then the base game has problems and it's far too easy. Yet, when judging KH3, many simply forget KH2(FM)'s faults and not only it's ironic like I already said, but it's also unfair because you're comparing a game you've played with a bunch of trailers. A fair comparison can be done after playing KH3 with the same restrictions as KH2FM. If the game feels like it rewards the player's efforts and skills and doesn't rely on luck, then KH3 has succeeded (and it doesn't need to be a mere copy of KH2FM to do so). This constant comparison with KH2FM is exhausting and only damages KH3 and KH as a whole, it needs to stop (or at least it needs to take on a more objective look).

I agree with some points that you've made, yes KH3 needs to be it's own game, build off of the other games and improve on them, while adding something new in order to be its own separate thing. The issue is that KH2FM was pretty much the pinnacle of the series. KH3 is the next full numbered titled game (specifically made for a console) after KH2 which is over 10 years old, so people are expecting it to have the things that KH2FM and more, which is should as KH2FM is such an old game.

People find it weird that it seems to have less content compared to a game which came out many years ago and also as it's the final game in the saga. None of us have played it but from what we've seen it doesn't seem to have much of the side content stuff that we all loved from the previous games and instead they added a ton of mini-games and classic kingdom games which isn't too my liking.

I can't speak for everyone but all the game needed to do for me is to have some (2 or 3) secret bosses, a coliseum and data battles or boss replay mode (harder versions of previous bosses). These aren't things that we shouldn't expect to be in the base game. I would have also liked original worlds to be more fleshed out and also for there to be another Disney world but I've accepted this stuff though, I'm more disappointed by lack of post game content.

I mean, it doesn't really matter because at the end of the day we're all going to get the game but a lot of fans are going to be disappointed, there'll definitely be backlash. Just take a gander on the KingdomHearts Reddit and you'll see those poor guys (who haven't looked at leaks) are expecting so many things that the game won't have.
 

Luminary

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One of the preeminent concerns among fans of the series is which worlds are selected for each and every title, so there is nothing sudden about this line of criticism. The argument I was making is not the one which you seem to have read into my comments: the fact that any world could arguably work for any game, rather than standing as a functional justification for any world choice, establishes a stronger mandate to selectively integrate worlds in the best way, at the ideal time. That's how we can best compare potential and actual world choices, which is in relation to their relative service to the plot and themes occurring around them in conjunction with the sense of immersive scale and history they provide, not only internally, but to the greater KH universe.

This latter concern has been more central to some titles than others: CoM, Days and (to a less defensible extent) Coded were all structurally invested in the cyclical logic of conflict on the level of the individual-- the known world outside of ourselves juxtaposed with the mysteries which lie within our own hearts-- and so there was, consequently, less of an imperative to press for and develop new worlds when the emphasis was on utilizing worlds primarily as vehicles for the personal progression of characters. i.e. The entire premise of Chain of Memories is rendered obsolete without the dichotomy between and eventual blurring of the familiar and the unfamiliar which is facilitated by the use of recurrent settings and situations.

KH3 belongs to the class of mainline games which have a shared purpose in seeking to broaden the narrative boundaries of the series outside of those primarily personal encounters. But care still has to be taken when doing so to provide the strongest motivations for the audience to invest in that expansion. One route to that, and my personal preference 9 times out of 10, is to draw from a previously established emotional throughline by building upon some small feature of the story which could benefit from the extrapolation. I enjoyed KH2's Disney worlds (often in spite of their flaws) because Sora typically had a reason to care about the people in them and so, by extension, did we. Knowing characters like Mushu, Simba, and Belle/the Beast from KH1 helped make their respective worlds feel like logical extensions of the ongoing narrative, so it was easy to accept that Sora would want to spend time in the worlds and help resolve any problems there. The other route is to offer a really compelling foundation for the world's storytelling potential that supersedes the advantages of maintaining such a throughline: a good example of this is Tron in KH2, which is not a favorite of mine, but which has a very clear and gratifying arc such that no Organization member even needs to appear within the world in order for it to have a sizable impact in progressing both our understanding of the story and the characters' understandings of the world around them. It's as close to indispensable as a Disney world gets without being in KH1.

A bad example of this is Arendelle in KH3, which looks to be included because it's just too popular not to be and there are suddenly new PoH just because: we already know the world is not structured to incorporate Sora et al into the main plot, which undermines the case for our investment in it. The PoH angle isn't even a strong argument given that KoC could easily check that off the narrative laundry list, and the same issue persists with other examples in the game in terms of what we've seen of them so far. The same story could be told utilizing Toy Box as BH6 such that the plot and setting of Toy Box could literally take place within San Fransokyo and we wouldn't have reason to think twice about it: both deal with alternate worlds/dimensions and the question of how the "heart" of something that is not technically alive or sentient develops and changes over time, and the threat of how the Xehanorts intend to use any insight they gain through their observations. From the looks of it YX even shows up in both worlds to drive home how unnecessary it was to include both when one would have sufficed, especially since none of this is remotely new information within the context of the larger story: Pinocchio's character has been used to re-cement these themes as recently as DDD. In a game with so few Disney worlds, this is wasted space and potential that could have been applied towards deepening the multidimensionality contained between worlds within the series.


That's what makes their inclusion so janky and unrewarding, the fact that the "canon" status of these worlds has to be reconciled with the reality that none of this can meaningfully change any of the known qualities of those worlds because they were not designed to accommodate the rules and events of the KH universe. That diminishes the substance of what occurs there, because we have to contend with the fact that Woody and Buzz never talk about the events of KH3 despite consistently referencing those of past movies, which makes Sora's inevitable proclamation that they've all become lifelong friends ring hollow. We're left to either assume that the Toys have either somehow forgotten about him and everything that came with his visit, or that they don't consider it formative or even worth the occasional acknowledgment-- and if they can't be said to care about what happens, why should any of us be?

In the KH universe, Belle and the Beast actually did leave their world and have experiences outside of it, and that works because it's part of a self-contained reimagining of that canon that makes anything, theoretically, possible. That kind of creative liberty is invaluable to the sustenance of KH's appeal, and the more I hear about the restrictions and requests from the Disney side of the production the more I wish this game had gone with IPs whose creators are either dead or indifferent so the developers could have done whatever they wanted and then, at the very least, we'd know exactly who to blame for the outcome.

Yes, the handhelds had plot reasons for reusing old worlds. But it seems likely that they knowingly structured the plots in a way that allowed them to reuse assets. But either way, it’s high time that we move beyond those worlds and allow Sora to meet new characters and forge new friendships just like he did in KH1 since we’ve had all these other games for Sora to reunite with his old friends in one form or another and their main plots were concluded on either KH1 or 2. The goal with KH3 was to recapture some of that KH1 magic of Sora traveling to worlds he has absolutely no prior connection to and seeing how his friendships with these characters form while also including a few reunion worlds (Olympus, Caribbean, 100 Acre Wood) to provide some of that emotional throughline of his established relationships like continuing Sora’s development as Jack Sparrow’s pirate protégé.

Arendelle was eyed and possibly chosen by Nomura before the film even released. Elsa’s struggle with her inner darkness, the concept of a frozen heart, and the manipulation of memories are all ideas that scream to be a part of Kingdom Hearts world. If it hadn’t been included, I’d be just as bothered if it wasn’t in as I am about PatF and Atlantis not appearing as those also have elements that fit all too well with the series. Despite its popularity, Frozen is still an excellent film and it wouldn’t be popular if it didn’t have something the audiences resonated with. My issue surrounding the film is that Disney is so desperate to cash in on it, they forget all the other films people love, including the recent ones like PatF, Tangled, Big Hero 6, Zootopia, etc. It isn’t that Frozen shouldn’t get featured in things like KH, but that other things should be featured alongside it. Same with the KH worlds. Imo, the problem isn’t Frozen or any worlds appearance. It’s the lack of a couple more that could have balanced everything out more.

As for Sora being in the “background” of the Frozen plot, I believe this is to offer him more flexibility to actually be more involved with both Anna and Elsa’s journeys. If it was like a normal KH world where he mostly follows one character or group, he wouldn’t be able to bond with both of them since they’re separated most of the film.

The latter half of your post seems to be based on a common misconception. KH isn’t becoming part of the canon of the films, so they don’t have to explain why Woody, Buzz, etc. don’t remember Sora. Rather, the films of Toy Story 1, 2, Big Hero 6, and Monstropolis are canon to KH so that the characters in these worlds have their established histories and the KH team can play off of that to imagine what a sequel to these films that takes place in the KH universe would be like. Technically, this isn’t a new concept because Olympus in KH1 was intended to take place after the events of the original film.
 

maximumlight8

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KeybladeLordSora

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What makes me sad is that KH3 looks to have most of what KH2FM had to offer in terms of side content, probably more, but it won't even matter because the only content that matters in some people's eyes is anything related to beating up bosses again or beating up Sephiroth.
 

rokudamia2

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What makes me sad is that KH3 looks to have most of what KH2FM had to offer in terms of side content, probably more, but it won't even matter because the only content that matters in some people's eyes is anything related to beating up bosses again or beating up Sephiroth.

For comparison’s sake In vanilla kh2 the only side content were the coliseum cups and Sephiroth.
 

wolfshadow0118

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We do have a ton of is side content to start off with for kh3, I just wish people would wait for future updates. Shoot there's supposedly gonna be some sort of multiplayer. That's what the Xbox one esrb rating shows for local.
 

drew0512

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I agree with some points that you've made, yes KH3 needs to be it's own game, build off of the other games and improve on them, while adding something new in order to be its own separate thing. The issue is that KH2FM was pretty much the pinnacle of the series. KH3 is the next full numbered titled game (specifically made for a console) after KH2 which is over 10 years old, so people are expecting it to have the things that KH2FM and more, which is should as KH2FM is such an old game.
This is completely subjective, though. KH2 is the pinnacle of the series for you and many people, but for me and other people, it really isn't. That's why KH3 needs to be an independent game that improve its predecessors' strong points and make them better as much as possible. A simple copy and paste of KH2FM's content would have been pointless and sloppy.
People find it weird that it seems to have less content compared to a game which came out many years ago and also as it's the final game in the saga. None of us have played it but from what we've seen it doesn't seem to have much of the side content stuff that we all loved from the previous games and instead they added a ton of mini-games and classic kingdom games which isn't too my liking.
First of all, KH3 is the end of a narrative arc, not the end of the series, so it only needs to go all out as far as story is concerned. It doesn't mean that it has an excuse to be a mediocre game gameplay-wise, it just means that what we should expect is indeed "just another KH game" and it's not meant in a bad away at all. A game with 100 hours of story, 20 Disney worlds, 15 original worlds, 15 secret bosses, every little thing from past games implemented into this one would be called "Kingdom Hearts: Opera Omnia". Not Kingdom Hearts 3.

That being said, you're right: we haven't played the game. Not only that, but our only source of information is a dumb leaker that is trolling and deceiving us. This leaker has been playing the game for 2 weeks and he's still not done with it. We know it has side content and worst case scenario, it's the same amount of KH2's side content (which is the game we have to compare KH3 with). To know exactly what the game has in store for us, we have to play it.
I can't speak for everyone but all the game needed to do for me is to have some (2 or 3) secret bosses, a coliseum and data battles or boss replay mode (harder versions of previous bosses). These aren't things that we shouldn't expect to be in the base game. I would have also liked original worlds to be more fleshed out and also for there to be another Disney world but I've accepted this stuff though, I'm more disappointed by lack of post game content.
You have your personal wishes and there's nothing wrong with that, because everyone has them. You can expect those things in the base game, but it's also completely fine and not that surprising if they are not in the game. KH1, KH2 and BbS have a Final Mix version, why should it be different for KH3? We're getting a full story and side content. It's not like we were deprived of something. Maybe you'll get the boss replay mode in a future DLC or maybe it is already in the game. You can't know.

I mean, it doesn't really matter because at the end of the day we're all going to get the game but a lot of fans are going to be disappointed, there'll definitely be backlash. Just take a gander on the KingdomHearts Reddit and you'll see those poor guys (who haven't looked at leaks) are expecting so many things that the game won't have.
Eh, this doesn't really make sense to me. I've said it already, everyone has personal wishes. Do you really think that a game (or a book, or a movie) will please EVERY single desire of MILLIONS of players? Of course not. Everyone is bound to some disappointment, it's just natural. I'm disappointed by the lack of FF or because there's no Lilo and Stitch world. Cool, I'm already over it (and I'll get over other things as I play the game). Don't you think players were disappointed by the lack of collectibles in KH2? I'm sure some players must have thought "I wonder what we will be collecting in KH2! There's Stitch, maybe after we visit his world he have to hunt the other experiments!". Not only there was no Lilo and Stitch or experiments, there weren't any collectible whatsoever. This alone didn't cause backlash.
We will experience backlash only if KH3 either doesn't feel like an improvment from KH2 or if it fails at wrapping up the story. I don't care about Data, you do. I care about platform and maybe you don't. None of this will cause backlash. If the story ends with a cliffhanger that revolves around Xehanort or if some important plot points are ignored I'll be pissed. You'll be pissed. Everyone will be pissed and this will definitely cause backlash. Our own wishes differ and KH3 does seem to be offering things for battle lovers, platform lovers, minigames lovers and so on. We only have to wait and see if it delivers.

Just relax and wait for the game. With this mindset, you won't enjoy the game even if it turns out to be almost perfect, that's for certain.
 

maximumlight8

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NoWay

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This would confirm that the epilogue won’t be playable because it only says “To WATCH the epilogue..”
 

Seighart

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Glad they did this so that people can give that D1U bs a rest.
 

drew0512

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This would confirm that the epilogue won’t be playable because it only says “To WATCH the epilogue..”

To be fair, I don't think they would spoil something like that. It's unlikely, but I don't think we can rule the possibility out just yet.
 

ZJGamer

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Why are we conveniently forgetting that KH and KHFM exist? KHFM introduced a secret boss that hints at a future game, not KH2FM. KH1 introduced collectibles, not KH2FM. KH1 introduced the Coliseum and tournaments, not KH2(FM).

KH2 was generally regarded as a great game because it was fun and technically superb, but no serious review has ever dared to say that it was a COMPLETE improvement over KH1, simply because it isn't. Level design is a downgrade and generally feels cheap; exploration is close to non-existent; the plot has a bad pace; the game is too easy; the gameplay is too flashy and button-smashing (sounds familiar?).

This is exactly why some fans need to let go of KH2(FM), the nostalgia glasses are just too strong on this one.

KH3 needs to be KH3, not KH2FM 0.2. To be a good game and a worthy sequel, KH3 needs to take elements from the previous games (and I said gameS) and improve them. That's how it works. We don't know if KH3 has succeeded because we haven't played the game yet (and yes, we do need to play it before we judge it) but we do know that it has addressed some, if not every big issues this series has:
- Disney doesn't seem to be a filler anymore (unlike KH2)
- Every Keyblade seems to be useful now (unlike KH2)
- Gummiship looks like a big improvement
- Exploration is back (unlike KH2).

If KH3 generally feels like an improvement, than it has done what it needed to do (and it doesn't mean that it isn't allowed to have flaws, because perfection doesn't exist). Fans are free to expect KH2FM 2.0 but they're just setting themselves up for disappointment because, thank God, Nomura thinks KH3 needs to be KH3.
And don't even get me started on the hypocrisy some fans are showing. A common complain is "KH3 is too flashy and cinematic, I wish it was like KH2(FM)" which is tremendously ironic because it was KH2 that introduced flashiness and "cinematic combat", but everyone has forgotten or is simply overlooking it. KH2FM really only shines when played on critical mode at level 1 (even "normal" critical mode can be beaten with only X, dodge and Cure - that's what I did). If you need to play the game with those restrictions to finally feel a challenge and feel like "this is what it's supposed to play like", then the base game has problems and it's far too easy. Yet, when judging KH3, many simply forget KH2(FM)'s faults and not only it's ironic like I already said, but it's also unfair because you're comparing a game you've played with a bunch of trailers. A fair comparison can be done after playing KH3 with the same restrictions as KH2FM. If the game feels like it rewards the player's efforts and skills and doesn't rely on luck, then KH3 has succeeded (and it doesn't need to be a mere copy of KH2FM to do so). This constant comparison with KH2FM is exhausting and only damages KH3 and KH as a whole, it needs to stop (or at least it needs to take on a more objective look).

True that KH and KHFM did introduce elements like the secret boss tied to the story and the coliseum, but KH2 and KH2FM cemented these elements as staples of the series. It was after KH2FM that everyone came to EXPECT these elements in all future games going forward. We didn't necessarily have the expectation of these elements going into KH2 because we only had KH1 and KH1FM for comparison. Now of course KH2 and KH2FM were not perfect games, but overall they were improvements over the first game. KH2 introduced so many great combat elements like revenge value, the smooth combos which can be paired up with limits and drives and magic in a number of ways, and Lingering Will is still one of the best designed boss fights I've ever seen.

Even in terms of story, KH2's story I like more than KH1. The Xehanort plot twist blew my mind when I first saw it. Roxas is my favorite character and I loved the segment with him at the start of the game. Radiant Garden was such a great hub world in KH2. The Nobodies and the Organization XIII were fascinating to me in terms of their nature (I still despise the retcon in KH3D that says ALL Nobodies can regrow hearts, which really takes away from what made Nobodies unique. Something like this should have been exclusive to special Nobodies like Roxas, Namine, and Xemnas).

I know for a fact that after finishing BBS and KH3D I would say "Well there were somethings I liked, somethings that could be better. And it's still not as good as KH2FM".

I know you say KH3 needs to be KH3, and doesn't need to be KH2FM. However, that doesn't mean KH3 has to disregard all the things people loved about KH2FM. KH3 should keep the things we love from KH2FM and improve upon them while also adding new stuff. KH3 should keep stuff from KH2FM while also adding onto those things with new stuff. We should get more from KH3, not less. I mean we have had 2 generations of technological development since KH2FM came out and so KH3 should have more and be bigger and better in EVERY way compared to KH2FM. But it doesn't seem to be that way IMO.
 

Luminary

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Considering Lingering Will couldn’t be fought until after unlocking The Gathering, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve done the same thing with a secret story boss time, which will make it impossible to fight until the epilogue and/or secret movie is added. I could see a fight against a Chi era character happening this way.
 

Sephiroth0812

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(I still despise the retcon in KH3D that says ALL Nobodies can regrow hearts, which really takes away from what made Nobodies unique. Something like this should have been exclusive to special Nobodies like Roxas, Namine, and Xemnas).

This is neither a retcon nor would it work with the overall themes of the heart that goes across the entire series if only specific beings could profit from it. The concept that everything can gain a heart is present since Chain of Memories with the Riku Replica and Sora's insistence that he has a heart of his own.

If there is a procedure how a heart can be born and grow you can't just exclude one group of beings from it, not to mention that the whole having hearts or not was an ambiguous issue even in KH 2 itself and there were tons of discussions and parts of the fandom who didn't believe the whole "no hearts and no way to get one"- interpretation from the get-go, long before Coded or DDD ever were a thing.

There is no stated in-stone set fact that was overturned (and thus retconned) in DDD when it comes to the possibility of gaining a heart.
What was done there is taking an ambiguous situation and clear it up.

I know you say KH3 needs to be KH3, and doesn't need to be KH2FM. However, that doesn't mean KH3 has to disregard all the things people loved about KH2FM. KH3 should keep the things we love from KH2FM and improve upon them while also adding new stuff. KH3 should keep stuff from KH2FM while also adding onto those things with new stuff. We should get more from KH3, not less. I mean we have had 2 generations of technological development since KH2FM came out and so KH3 should have more and be bigger and better in EVERY way compared to KH2FM. But it doesn't seem to be that way IMO.
And why should KH III keep only the things from KH II FM?
This game is a culmination of the whole KH series, not just a continuation of KH 2 FM and specifically all the stuff associated with it.

This is what people mean when they say it comes over as if some people want just another KH 2 FM with updated graphics and expanded areas instead of something new.
 
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Jesus all I see is people complaining about the game here. I believe yall will calm down once the game is out. It's obviously the superior game to ALL in the series.
 
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