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Kingdom Hearts doesnt have many female characters tbh ngl



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TrueTroper

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It's funny how bad KH is at writing female characters when most of the writers also worked on Final Fantasy. Which handles its characters more competently. They have their problems like FF10-2 but I still prefer hanging out with the Gullwings than any of these girls.
Important note: Nomura isn't Executive Producer/Director/Story guy of EVERY Final Fantasy series like he is in KH, meaning that rather than being limited to just one guy's opinion of what the female characters need to be like, the female characters in FF are allowed to be more diverse. If anything, Nomura has too much power over the KH series and its characters.

Kairi’s problem is that she is a very outdated idea of what a love interest/heroine is.
At this rate, I'm wondering if it's less Kairi and more Nomura's outdated idea on how he believes a female should behave...

The controversy wasn't about attacking women, but that in an organization otherwise full of men, the only women would be traitors. It's a very bad look.
And now there's the implication that Larxene only joined the O13 and went along with Xehanort's plan was because of her feelings for Marluxia... Just like Kairi who joined the final battle in KH3 because of Sora. So Nomura went from the message that "female traitors gives women a bad look and it makes me look bad for presenting them that way so I won't do that" to "female characters sacrifice everything to be with their love and do everything that they do and I think that's an acceptable message for young girls to learn so I'm okay presenting it in the series"? That still seems like a pretty toxic message for him to be putting out there...
 
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Rodin

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Important note: Nomura isn't Executive Producer/Director/Story guy of EVERY Final Fantasy series like he is in KH, meaning that rather than being limited to just one guy's opinion of what the female characters need to be like, the female characters in FF are allowed to be more diverse. If anything, Nomura has too much power over the KH series and its characters.


At this rate, I'm wondering if it's less Kairi and more Nomura's outdated idea on how he believes a female should behave...


And now there's the implication that Larxene only joined the O13 and went along with Xehanort's plan was because of her feelings for Marluxia... Just like Kairi who joined the final battle in KH3 because of Sora. So Nomura went from the message that "female traitors gives women a bad look and it makes me look bad for presenting them that way so I won't do that" to "female characters sacrifice everything to be with their love and do everything that they do and I think that's an acceptable message for young girls to learn so I'm okay presenting it in the series"? That still seems like a pretty toxic message for him to be putting out there...
There are more writing credits for each game. It may be Nomura's vision but he's not the only one in the driving seat.
 
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Noivern

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I definitely agree that the main issue is the lack of female characters. The writing is also bad with most of them ending up as damsels in distress at some point or another but honestly, that kinda applies to almost every character as well, lol. Besides Riku and Roxas, every character gets a shitty development (if they even get developed past one game, that is), and even those two were damsels in distress at some point, being rescued by Sora.

But when you have like almost 3 times more boys than girls in a franchise, it becomes very evident which one got it worse.
 

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There are more writing credits for each game. It may be Nomura's vision but he's not the only one in the driving seat.

Maybe.
That's a fair point to make.

I guess what I was trying to say, and poorly at that, was that KH3, a game where Nomura served as a Director, Writer, and Artist, gave him a unique position to control the story. Writers and artists both influence how a game turns out, and since Nomura was the only artist and a co-writer with Masaru Oka, he had plenty of ways to exert his control on the game's development.

Yes, there were indeed others working on the series' alongside Nomura, he was even Co-Director with Tai Yasue for KH3, but none of the people who are credited with helping to develop the game are listed as having 3 simultaneous positions like Nomura. The closest was Tai Yasue, who was both Co-Director and level Designer, but that's still only two positions compared to 3 at once. IMHO, all these positions make it seem like if Nomura wanted something in the game, he was definitely in a position to exert some pull to make it happen.
 

TrueTroper

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I definitely agree that the main issue is the lack of female characters. The writing is also bad with most of them ending up as damsels in distress at some point or another but honestly, that kinda applies to almost every character as well, lol. Besides Riku and Roxas, every character gets a shitty development (if they even get developed past one game, that is), and even those two were damsels in distress at some point, being rescued by Sora.

But when you have like almost 3 times more boys than girls in a franchise, it becomes very evident which one got it worse.
This. This so much. Too many characters, too few female characters, and not enough character development to go around... I really hope Nomura learns something for Phase 2 of KH and keeps the cast limited in order to allow everyone a good chunk of development...
 

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Ironically Namine and Xion felt handicapped by their connection to Kairi. Now that they are their own person, maybe they might improve?

I don't think the offshoot characters like Roxas, Namine, Xion and Vanitas were a bad idea. They just don't explore their host character that well. This is worse for Kairi because she's such a non-entity in the games. So you don't really feel Namine gives any insight into Kairi.

Hell if you scrapped the nobody concept, Namine and the other nobodies would be fine. Xemnas is the only character you'd have to really retool.

Maybe Xion but the replica angle isn't the issue to me. Xion just feels like she's more of the same than a brand new character.

Granted Xion was more handicapped by Days itself. Even as a Roxas fan I just saw Days as unnecessary and tedious. So Xion wasn't done any favors.

Honestly I would've been fine if Roxas, Namine and Xion were regular nobodies like the others. It just feels simpler and less hoops to jump through.

Better late than never.
 
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Elysium

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Maybe I'm alone, but I always found Namine and Xion much more interesting than Kairi. I know we're supposed to connect them to Kairi, but aside from her being a reason for their appearance / existence, I didn't think they were much like her otherwise. Their personalities feel as little like hers as Roxas' personality does Sora's.
 

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The controversy wasn't about attacking women, but that in an organization otherwise full of men, the only women would be traitors. It's a very bad look.
True. And it would be even worse when you think it out fully: two female characters manipulate the male protagonist to do their dirty work because they're too weak to overthrow the rest of the Organization (all men) themselves.
 
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Dark Rot

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I think female Marluxia would have been pretty compelling. If they had gone that direction, she'd be more popular than he is now. I think they were overthinking it, and most people wouldn't have cared. Most famous Disney villains are deceitful, manipulative women and we love them for it. Being a traitor to an evil organization ain't so bad anyway.

I don't personally care about having enough characters of a certain sex, if we're just talking numbers and proportions. I can imagine a KH game with only male original characters and think that would be cool. A game with all female characters could also be cool.

But the girls do get the short end of the stick, and do feel "unfavored" as characters. I actually would like to see a really cool new female protagonist, who steers her own story and is uniquely herself, though maybe a crazy female villain would be more comfortable for Nomura... and I'm fine with that too.
 

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True. And it would be even worse when you think it out fully: two female characters manipulate the male protagonist to do their dirty work because they're too weak to overthrow the rest of the Organization (all men) themselves.

I think there's a reading of this situation that could be more empowering than problematic, if handled right. But we barely know the reasons behind Marluxia and Larxene's choice to betray of the Organization.

I wonder if Larxene (Elrena) will get any development as the series unfolds. I hope so. I find her so dynamic. And I'd like the VA to show a softer side to Elrena, while retaining her sparky attitude of course.
 

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The idea that Marluxia was made a man to avoid unfortunate implications gets repeated a lot, but I've never seen a citation for it. The closest quote supporting that idea that I can find was in Character's Report Vol. 2:
Marluxia
During the plotting stage we intended him to be a woman, but we thought about the balance with Larxene and made him a man. When you consider how he was entrusted with Castle Oblivion despite being Number 11 of the Organisation, you can tell just what a cunning character he is. I wasn't able to show this to you, but I'm sure you can imagine how he played the perfect 'can-do man' in front of Xemnas. He's quite the actor.
--Nomura

Larxene
She ended up being the only female character in the Organisation, but in effect it made her more of an individual, which I think is good. I had a firm image of her voice, so hers was the very first voice actor we decided on. Adding that voice made her all the more brutal, didn't it? As for that hairstyle. I'm the one who drew it and it's still a mystery to me. ...Why did I give her that hair?
--Nomura
This confirms that Marluxia was originally intended to be a woman, but provides very different reasoning for the change. It was about balance and making Larxene stand out. Which makes sense, because if they were actually worried about how the situation looked the obvious answer is "make a few more members into women" instead of "make one of them a man".
 

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The idea that Marluxia was made a man to avoid unfortunate implications gets repeated a lot, but I've never seen a citation for it. The closest quote supporting that idea that I can find was in Character's Report Vol. 2:

This confirms that Marluxia was originally intended to be a woman, but provides very different reasoning for the change. It was about balance and making Larxene stand out. Which makes sense, because if they were actually worried about how the situation looked the obvious answer is "make a few more members into women" instead of "make one of them a man".
Yeah I always wished there were more female org members.
 

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Tragically, Kingdom Hearts tends to focus on relationships between males as opposed to females in regards to OCs. It feels like a shonen manga at times.
 

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Another member posted a What if thread about Xion being made by DiZ instead of the Organization. I preferred that option to what we got in canon.

Add Riku as the protagonist of Days and you have a more interesting first impression to me.

Riku felt like there was a piece missing to him and unlike Roxas, he's not stuck in a metaphorical limbo. So you could set it after 2 and avoid the filler feeling Days ends up with.

Having him not tell Sora about Xion out of shame is more compelling and easier to understand than the gobbledygook Days went with. Her returning gives Riku a strong inciting incident to leave on a new adventure and a goal to work towards.

Another option is to make her a regular nobody. I prefer that a replica. Making her Aqua's younger sister kills two birds with one stone. It allows give Aqua more characterization and another relationship to bounce off of.
 
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AdrianXXII

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Tragically, Kingdom Hearts tends to focus on relationships between males as opposed to females in regards to OCs. It feels like a shonen manga at times.
Honestly in many ways Kingdom Hearts is a basically just a shonen story. HAs a lot of the strengths and short comings of your typical popular shonen.
 

Rodin

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Tragically, Kingdom Hearts tends to focus on relationships between males as opposed to females in regards to OCs. It feels like a shonen manga at times.
Without the Disney/FF characters it would be a regular shonen. Unfortunately it's more dated than progressive. The Xehanort Saga reminds me of the bad parts of BLEACH
 

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Another member posted a What if thread about Xion being made by DiZ instead of the Organization. I preferred that option to what we got in canon.

Add Riku as the protagonist of Days and you have a more interesting first impression to me.

Riku felt like there was a piece missing to him and unlike Roxas, he's not stuck in a metaphorical limbo. So you could set it after 2 and avoid the filler feeling Days ends up with.

Having him not tell Sora about Xion out of shame is more compelling and easier to understand than the gobbledygook Days went with. Her returning gives Riku a strong inciting incident to leave on a new adventure and a goal to work towards.

Another option is to make her a regular nobody. I prefer that a replica. Making her Aqua's younger sister kills two birds with one stone. It allows give Aqua more characterization and another relationship to bounce off of.
These proposed fixes don't make much sense because for all the issues Xion and the story of Days have, her origins make sense. Expanding on the replica program means that Vexen no longer pulls Repliku out of nowhere. It also makes sense that the Organization was building their own Keyblade wielder. Their plans revolve around having one and there's no way they could have predicted that Sora would stab himself with a Keyblade and create Roxas.

Ironically, if Organization XIII had more women in the first place Xion might have not been created. With more female characters around they wouldn't have had to make a new one to get a leading lady, they could have expanded on an existing character. But instead they were stuck with existing roster and had to create a new character if they wanted a girl in a major role.
 

Rodin

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These proposed fixes don't make much sense because for all the issues Xion and the story of Days have, her origins make sense. Expanding on the replica program means that Vexen no longer pulls Repliku out of nowhere. It also makes sense that the Organization was building their own Keyblade wielder. Their plans revolve around having one and there's no way they could have predicted that Sora would stab himself with a Keyblade and create Roxas.

Ironically, if Organization XIII had more women in the first place Xion might have not been created. With more female characters around they wouldn't have had to make a new one to get a leading lady, they could have expanded on an existing character. But instead they were stuck with existing roster and had to create a new character if they wanted a girl in a major role.
I was just tinkering with what I felt were the problems with Days. My twist to Xion was to fit Riku better as a protagonist. Having her be made by DiZ and then defecting to the Organization challenges Riku. It's also a cleaner and easier to follow retcon.

I'm hoping Xion and Roxas gets a persona style spinoff. Their main goal is to get a normal life. So showing how they deal with that could be interesting.
 

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Kingdom Hearts is really disappointing in its treatment of female characters. The series is already lagging behind other franchises when it comes to fair treatment of its girls and women. I'm honestly surprised more adults haven't caught on to the fact that children might, even subconsciously, be absorbing this toxic message that only boys are allowed to be impulsive and adventurous while the girls are supposed to be responsible and focus on things like school and chores. IMHO, for whatever reason they have, KH as a franchise is even pretty dismissive of its female fanbase.
 
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